Marcus Smart is nothing special...why are yall so delusional?

[Bill Lumbergh]

Smart can absolutely improve his quickness. He's NBA ready from a strength standpoint, but I doubt his body fat % is where it needs to be at 21 years old. He needs to slim up and improve his quickness/agility, a much more easy task than what Payton is going to have to do in terms of learning how to shoot a basketball.

Frankly, I don't think it's close whatsoever. Smart will be twice as good of a player once the dust settles here. I think Payton will show his ceiling sooner than later and his potential will flame out on the alter of "he can't shoot". Smart will keep adding pieces to his game, but what you have with Marcus are all the bare essentials of a big time impact player.

He's got the size, toughness, unselfishness and BBIQ. There is no part of his game that is "completely" broken like we've seen from Tony, Elfrid or Rajon.

He was always NBA ready as far as strength is concerned. That was never an issue. He's a power guard. His game in college was predicated on physically overpowering opponents. My concern before the draft was how that type of game would translate against grown men. It was obvious he'd be able to defend well against all but speed demons. As expected, the power aspect of his offensive game hasn't really translated at this level. As to him losing weight and becoming quicker, perhaps only a slight bit, but at what expense to his power predicated game? I don't see him as ever becoming a guy that breaks guys down off the dribble. That's something guys have before they enter the league. If you can't beat guys off the dribble and command help so that you can then kick to open guys, you'll always be limited as a PG, basically limited to swinging the ball around the perimeter, which is what we see almost exclusively from him. Sure, guys develop, but they don't generally get much quicker. He'll be a solid defender, energy guy, and he is a leader. He's got value. I like Payton's upside better than Smart's. All he lacks is the shooting. Shooting is easier to improve than quickness (the difference being learned/practiced skills vs innate attributes).

[SmartWentCrazy]

Patience is a virtue with young PG's. Look at Jeff Teague's stats (who was remarkably similar offensively in college to Smart), Mike Conley's stats, or even Kyle Lowry's stats. Rookies take time (i.e. multiple seasons) to develop. PGs, arguably, take the most time as the college game is vastly different than the pro game. Smart was physically superior to 99% of the guys he went against in college. He needs to adjust to the new skill level of his peers.

Historically, look at John Wall, Chauncey Billups, Gary Payton... All developed and grew significantly from their first year. He didn't come in and tear up the league like Kyrie or Lillard, but few do. Just because you had unrealistic expectations that he did not live up to does not mean that he's a bust or 6th manat best. Few players are able to provide instant gratification. Give him time, be patient with his development. He's honestly right on track with where I hoped he'd be to begin the year.

[pac213up]

I like Smart quite a bit. He is special on the defensive side and I think he will be adequate offensively long term. I do not see a star in the making but I do see a guy I would want on my team.

[humblebum]

Smart can absolutely improve his quickness. He's NBA ready from a strength standpoint, but I doubt his body fat % is where it needs to be at 21 years old. He needs to slim up and improve his quickness/agility, a much more easy task than what Payton is going to have to do in terms of learning how to shoot a basketball.

Frankly, I don't think it's close whatsoever. Smart will be twice as good of a player once the dust settles here. I think Payton will show his ceiling sooner than later and his potential will flame out on the alter of "he can't shoot". Smart will keep adding pieces to his game, but what you have with Marcus are all the bare essentials of a big time impact player.

He's got the size, toughness, unselfishness and BBIQ. There is no part of his game that is "completely" broken like we've seen from Tony, Elfrid or Rajon.

He was always NBA ready as far as strength is concerned. That was never an issue. He's a power guard. His game in college was predicated on physically overpowering opponents. My concern before the draft was how that type of game would translate against grown men. It was obvious he'd be able to defend well against all but speed demons. As expected, the power aspect of his offensive game hasn't really translated at this level. As to him losing weight and becoming quicker, perhaps only a slight bit, but at what expense to his power predicated game? I don't see him as ever becoming a guy that breaks guys down off the dribble. That's something guys have before they enter the league. If you can't beat guys off the dribble and command help so that you can then kick to open guys, you'll always be limited as a PG, basically limited to swinging the ball around the perimeter, which is what we see almost exclusively from him. Sure, guys develop, but they don't generally get much quicker. He'll be a solid defender, energy guy, and he is a leader. He's got value. I like Payton's upside better than Smart's. All he lacks is the shooting. Shooting is easier to improve than quickness.

Payton doesn't have to improve his shot, he needs to learn how to shoot. Which is a completely different animal as far as development is concerned. Smart needs to improve his shot, Bradley needed to improve his shot and his confidence. Payton needs to learn how to shoot and grow confidence over time once he settles into a consistent shooting motion. Basically, there's almost no chance Payton ever develops into even an average shooter, he'll always be a liability like a Rondo or Tony Allen. Those guys just have no concept, physically or intrinsically of how to shoot a basketball successfully, very rare to see these types ever become even average shooters.

Smart was never a guy who broke people down off the dribble 1v1. He was a guy who could get to the basket in transition, in the post, or in pick and roll. Coming in as the backup to Rondo and having to earn minutes has limited Smart's aggressiveness and willingness to make mistakes of aggression unlike what Payton has experienced being thrown in as the guy at PG from the start. The thing is that Smart is a student of the game and when you have that type of mindset you're going to improve from year to year for a few years at least upon entering the NBA.

The results aren't there yet, but Smart is already playing more aggressively attacking the paint which, IMO, is likely related to him finally getting past the ankle/achilles issues fully. It's going to take some time with his offense/scoring and his playmaking skills, but he has a solid base of shooting/BBIQ/foul drawing ability to work with as he learns some of the higher level skills required to be productive offensively at the NBA level from that PG spot.

[LongTimeFan]

My understanding of the Celtics' brain trust is that Smart is either the best or 2nd best rookie of this draft class. I do not know what statistic they use, but I assume they have good numbers for that assessment.

I use +/- for 100 possessions.

http://www.82games.com/1415/14BOS4.HTM

Smart's is a +7.1 which is one of the best for any Celtic as of 2/18. Wiggins might be better in the Celtic's opinion. He comes in at a +3.5. But he is playing on a much weaker team so he is being compared to much weaker teammates.

http://www.82games.com/1415/14MIN8.HTM

It isn't that we are delusional. We just see the game and evaluate the game from a Celtic's way of thinking.

[Ben-N1ce]

I like Smart quite a bit. He is special on the defensive side and I think he will be adequate offensively long term. I do not see a star in the making but I do see a guy I would want on my team.

.

[Edug27]

Billups 2.0 ... Just give him time.

[Bad-Thoma]

Marketing is a powerful thing. It can make people believe ideas, buy merchandise, become addicts, and waste their time and hard earned money on materialistic wastes.

That being said, the Boston Celtics Business (not going to use the word franchise) is a business. But you see, marketers try separating this reality and would always use words like "franchise", "organization"' and "team".

Like most businesses, marketing plays a factor. In this case, the Celtics will obviously try marketing their products--which mainly are the players.

Marcus Smart is equivalent to a new product model that most businesses are. obviously going to try to market. But unlike a new phone to hit the streets, the development of Smart gives their customer (aka fans) base hope and they will do everything they can to make you believe that he is the "next celtics allstar".

But those who are not the Celtics customers and wouldn't be marketed so easily, will realize that Marcus Smart is just not that good and probably at best will be another Tony Allen. How do I know this? After numerous games of him doing nothing too great. No flashes of star material. Has he even had a 25pt game? Has he even recorded over 8assists? Over 10 rebounds?ì

If the Celts lost last night, a big reason would be because of him. He looked like garbage. Even Pressey looked better and I honestly think Pressey should be in the Dleague. Thats just sad.

Its amazing how so many of you could be so easily brainwashed in to thinking Smart is the future. Even Delonte West showed more potential when he first played with the Celts.

Smart has no shot, but apparently hes a defensive stopper, even though Orlando's Payton took him to school in the last two meetings with us.

With all that said, how many Orlando fans think Payton is there next young star? And how many other NBA fans who watched Smart play would really think hes the Celtics future? Probably not much at all.

So yes, everyone, please stop being brainwashed by marketing and getting your hopes up on this guy. He's nothing great and at best, will be as valuable as another Tony Allen.


And of course, I rather have Payton here than Smart. Would trade in a heart beat. Even if he cant shoot fts.

I love when someone makes a new account in order to troll. Bravo sir, you have the balls of a chickadee.

[ddb]

shhhh. you're letting the cat out of the bag. Ainge is building up his value to flip him as a centerpiece in a blockbuster! Stop spreading rumors that Smart isn't very good.

No, in all seriousness I'm actually pretty concerned about Marcus Smart on O. But what people sometimes fail to remember is that basketball is a 2 way sport. Defense is overlooked when in reality it shouldn't be. Marcus Smart is going to be an ELITE defensive guard. Tony Allen like. So that alone makes Marcus Smart valuable moving forward.

Offensively the ONLY thing I like about him right now is that he has a knack for the big moment. He tends to come through when it matters most. He can be on the guard at the end of an important game. So that's a big check mark in the PROS category.
But on the CONS side what really has me concerned is that he isn't a scorer, he isn't a consistent shooter (yet), he hasn't been aggressive getting to the lane/foul line, and he isn't showing an ability to finish around the rim. But for some guys (Chauncey) it takes time. Another big check mark in the PROS category is that Marcus Smart is a worker. I don't have any doubt that he will come back next season a much better offensive player. Will he ever be a superstar? No. But he can develop into a very, very solid 2 way guard. He's already half way there.

As far as Elfrid Payton goes. I'm glad he isn't on the Celtics. I could stomach having another PG that can't shoot or make free throws. Although I give him bonus points for having that crazy looking afro.

[cl2117]

I love that someone made an account to just spout this BS. Either you have some irrational Marcus Smart hate boiling inside you or you didn't have the balls to post this from your real account, either way you're shaqtin a fool my friend.

Smart isn't going to be a star, but the kid has some really special traits that people are excited about because, although he might not have the highest ceiling, he has a pretty damn high floor.

Smart IS a defensive stopper. If you watch him play he's got some incredible footwork and instincts. He still gambles too much for my liking, but he clearly has full understanding of the defensive schemes and he makes some great plays rotating over, double teaming and getting into passing lanes. He was on Tony Allen's level when they played the Grizzlies the other night. That's high praise, but it's true. You want to crucify him because he got torched by Payton who's whole game is the ability to slip past on-ball defenders and get into the lane, while conveniently forgetting that he's played great defense against elite scorers like James Harden, Jordan Crawford, Klay Thompson, Kyle Korver and others. You watch this video and then tell me Smart doesn't have an elite defensive skill set, I'll wait:
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hmjli8hakJY&t=12[/youtube]

Now the thing that's keeping Smart from being on the same level as guys who have "star" potential is the fact that the Tony Allen comparison goes both ways. He misses bunnies, he hasn't shot well at all between 3 and 18 feet, he hasn't been aggressive going to the basket enough and he hasn't hit his free throws at an acceptable clip either. But he has shown that he can be a streaky yet effective shooter from 3 and he has the size and speed to be a menace in the lane if he continues to attack and work on finishing at the rim. Probably not enough upside there to make him more than average, but he's not a lost cause and you combine that potential to improve on offense with what he already has on defense and you've got a guy who can be a key piece for a championship contender in the future.

Has he had a 25 point game? Has he had 10+ rebounds? Has he had 8+ assists? No, but he regularly fills the stat sheet up across the board with some scoring, a couple assists, a couple rebounds, a couple steals, maybe a nice block, tremendous defense and unparalleled hustle. That's why Smart is so loved around here. He works harder in the minutes he's out there than anyone else. That's why he has upside beyond what the stat lines show.

Smart may not be Wiggins, but Ainge wasn't picking at #1 now was he? And although Smart might not be Wiggins or Noel or Embiid, he's also not Exum or Stauskas or Vonleh so maybe cut him some slack?

[truth18]

Marketing is a powerful thing. It can make people believe ideas, buy merchandise, become addicts, and waste their time and hard earned money on materialistic wastes.

That being said, the Boston Celtics Business (not going to use the word franchise) is a business. But you see, marketers try separating this reality and would always use words like "franchise", "organization"' and "team".

Like most businesses, marketing plays a factor. In this case, the Celtics will obviously try marketing their products--which mainly are the players.

Marcus Smart is equivalent to a new product model that most businesses are. obviously going to try to market. But unlike a new phone to hit the streets, the development of Smart gives their customer (aka fans) base hope and they will do everything they can to make you believe that he is the "next celtics allstar".

But those who are not the Celtics customers and wouldn't be marketed so easily, will realize that Marcus Smart is just not that good and probably at best will be another Tony Allen. How do I know this? After numerous games of him doing nothing too great. No flashes of star material. Has he even had a 25pt game? Has he even recorded over 8assists? Over 10 rebounds?ì

If the Celts lost last night, a big reason would be because of him. He looked like garbage. Even Pressey looked better and I honestly think Pressey should be in the Dleague. Thats just sad.

Its amazing how so many of you could be so easily brainwashed in to thinking Smart is the future. Even Delonte West showed more potential when he first played with the Celts.

Smart has no shot, but apparently hes a defensive stopper, even though Orlando's Payton took him to school in the last two meetings with us.

With all that said, how many Orlando fans think Payton is there next young star? And how many other NBA fans who watched Smart play would really think hes the Celtics future? Probably not much at all.

So yes, everyone, please stop being brainwashed by marketing and getting your hopes up on this guy. He's nothing great and at best, will be as valuable as another Tony Allen.


And of course, I rather have Payton here than Smart. Would trade in a heart beat. Even if he cant shoot fts.

I love when someone makes a new account in order to troll. Bravo sir, you have the balls of a chickadee.

He really does. He even and1ed his own post on his real account lol.

[2Mas]

Ey yo, OP ..



GTFOH!

[ddb]

I love that someone made an account to just spout this BS. Either you have some irrational Marcus Smart hate boiling inside you or you didn't have the balls to post this from your real account, either way you're shaqtin a fool my friend.

Smart isn't going to be a star, but the kid has some really special traits that people are excited about because, although he might not have the highest ceiling, he has a pretty damn high floor.

Smart IS a defensive stopper. If you watch him play he's got some incredible footwork and instincts. He still gambles too much for my liking, but he clearly has full understanding of the defensive schemes and he makes some great plays rotating over, double teaming and getting into passing lanes. He was on Tony Allen's level when they played the Grizzlies the other night. That's high praise, but it's true. You want to crucify him because he got torched by Payton who's whole game is the ability to slip past on-ball defenders and get into the lane, while conveniently forgetting that he's played great defense against elite scorers like James Harden, Jordan Crawford, Klay Thompson, Kyle Korver and others. You watch this video and then tell me Smart doesn't have an elite defensive skill set, I'll wait:
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hmjli8hakJY&t=12[/youtube]

Now the thing that's keeping Smart from being on the same level as guys who have "star" potential is the fact that the Tony Allen comparison goes both ways. He misses bunnies, he hasn't shot well at all between 3 and 18 feet, he hasn't been aggressive going to the basket enough and he hasn't hit his free throws at an acceptable clip either. But he has shown that he can be a streaky yet effective shooter from 3 and he has the size and speed to be a menace in the lane if he continues to attack and work on finishing at the rim. Probably not enough upside there to make him more than average, but he's not a lost cause and you combine that potential to improve on offense with what he already has on defense and you've got a guy who can be a key piece for a championship contender in the future.

Has he had a 25 point game? Has he had 10+ rebounds? Has he had 8+ assists? No, but he regularly fills the stat sheet up across the board with some scoring, a couple assists, a couple rebounds, a couple steals, maybe a nice block, tremendous defense and unparalleled hustle. That's why Smart is so loved around here. He works harder in the minutes he's out there than anyone else. That's why he has upside beyond what the stat lines show.

Smart may not be Wiggins, but Ainge wasn't picking at #1 now was he? And although Smart might not be Wiggins or Noel or Embiid, he's also not Exum or Stauskas or Vonleh so maybe cut him some slack?

Marcus Smart is Tony Allen like on D with a much higher offensive upside then Tony Allen ever had. To think of how freakin good Marcus will be on D once he LEARNS the ins and outs of the NBA will be downright scary. Let's not forget he's a ROOKIE

[Captain_Caveman]

Marketing is a powerful thing. It can make people believe ideas, buy merchandise, become addicts, and waste their time and hard earned money on materialistic wastes.

That being said, the Boston Celtics Business (not going to use the word franchise) is a business. But you see, marketers try separating this reality and would always use words like "franchise", "organization"' and "team".

Like most businesses, marketing plays a factor. In this case, the Celtics will obviously try marketing their products--which mainly are the players.

Marcus Smart is equivalent to a new product model that most businesses are. obviously going to try to market. But unlike a new phone to hit the streets, the development of Smart gives their customer (aka fans) base hope and they will do everything they can to make you believe that he is the "next celtics allstar".

But those who are not the Celtics customers and wouldn't be marketed so easily, will realize that Marcus Smart is just not that good and probably at best will be another Tony Allen. How do I know this? After numerous games of him doing nothing too great. No flashes of star material. Has he even had a 25pt game? Has he even recorded over 8assists? Over 10 rebounds?ì

If the Celts lost last night, a big reason would be because of him. He looked like garbage. Even Pressey looked better and I honestly think Pressey should be in the Dleague. Thats just sad.

Its amazing how so many of you could be so easily brainwashed in to thinking Smart is the future. Even Delonte West showed more potential when he first played with the Celts.

Smart has no shot, but apparently hes a defensive stopper, even though Orlando's Payton took him to school in the last two meetings with us.

With all that said, how many Orlando fans think Payton is there next young star? And how many other NBA fans who watched Smart play would really think hes the Celtics future? Probably not much at all.

So yes, everyone, please stop being brainwashed by marketing and getting your hopes up on this guy. He's nothing great and at best, will be as valuable as another Tony Allen.


And of course, I rather have Payton here than Smart. Would trade in a heart beat. Even if he cant shoot fts.

Spoiler:

Go to college.

[SichtingLives]

What difference would it make today?? When you commit to bold, definitive line-in-the-sand prognostications about rookies, all you're doing is putting a dunce cap on your head.

[hickfromfrenchlick]

Marketing is a powerful thing. It can make people believe ideas, buy merchandise, become addicts, and waste their time and hard earned money on materialistic wastes.

That being said, the Boston Celtics Business (not going to use the word franchise) is a business. But you see, marketers try separating this reality and would always use words like "franchise", "organization"' and "team".

Like most businesses, marketing plays a factor. In this case, the Celtics will obviously try marketing their products--which mainly are the players.

Marcus Smart is equivalent to a new product model that most businesses are. obviously going to try to market. But unlike a new phone to hit the streets, the development of Smart gives their customer (aka fans) base hope and they will do everything they can to make you believe that he is the "next celtics allstar".

But those who are not the Celtics customers and wouldn't be marketed so easily, will realize that Marcus Smart is just not that good and probably at best will be another Tony Allen. How do I know this? After numerous games of him doing nothing too great. No flashes of star material. Has he even had a 25pt game? Has he even recorded over 8assists? Over 10 rebounds?ì

If the Celts lost last night, a big reason would be because of him. He looked like garbage. Even Pressey looked better and I honestly think Pressey should be in the Dleague. Thats just sad.

Its amazing how so many of you could be so easily brainwashed in to thinking Smart is the future. Even Delonte West showed more potential when he first played with the Celts.

Smart has no shot, but apparently hes a defensive stopper, even though Orlando's Payton took him to school in the last two meetings with us.

With all that said, how many Orlando fans think Payton is there next young star? And how many other NBA fans who watched Smart play would really think hes the Celtics future? Probably not much at all.

So yes, everyone, please stop being brainwashed by marketing and getting your hopes up on this guy. He's nothing great and at best, will be as valuable as another Tony Allen.


And of course, I rather have Payton here than Smart. Would trade in a heart beat. Even if he cant shoot fts.

Thank you for your interest in Boston Celtics basketball.

[GuyClinch]

Rondo has scared me for life. I'd much rather take my chances with having the next C. Billups over having the next Rajon Rondo. Too many years of listening to fools tell me that a guy teams don't even cover makes our offense so much better. Too many hours reading verbal garbage from people who believe a guy who can't shoot free throws as a well as a JV high school backup is really really good at basketball.

Smart might bust out - but it doesn't matter. Ainge has shown us how he can find a guy who plays the right way at PG - Isiah Thomas. If you are going to be the fastest dude on the floor - you should consider taking advantage of this and get yourself to the line or hit some open Js..

This 50s mentality that every team needs a Bob Cousy needs to go... Well that's not fair to Cousy. Even he was a gunner.

[humblebum]

Rondo has scared me for life. I'd much rather take my chances with having the next C. Billups over having the next Rajon Rondo. Too many years of listening to fools tell me that a guy teams don't even cover makes our offense so much better. Too many hours reading verbal garbage from people who believe a guy who can't shoot free throws as a well as a JV high school backup is really really good at basketball.

Smart might bust out - but it doesn't matter. Ainge has shown us how he can find a guy who plays the right way at PG - Isiah Thomas. If you are going to be the fastest dude on the floor - you should consider taking advantage of this and get yourself to the line or hit some open Js..

This 50s mentality that every team needs a Bob Cousy needs to go... Well that's not fair to Cousy. Even he was a gunner.

Preach.

You gotta SHOOT, people. It's basketball, that's the whole point to outscore your opponent. If you defend at a level where you subtract points (Smart clearly is an impact defender) from the opponent, that means there are less points for you to have to score/create in order to win your matchup and be a positive overall factor. Smart is doing all of the small accounting details out there on both ends with his physicality, aggressiveness, and hustle.

I look at Smart as a guy who can hit singles and leg out the occasional double or triple. Maybe steal a base. But I also think he'll make the clutch play... he's already doing this stuff on both ends as a rookie, and that's with him barely having explored what he can do dribbling the lane.

We'll see how it plays out, but the smart money is betting on Smart getting better. Why wouldn't he?

[Banks2Pierce]

He's already really freaking good. You can tell he still is unsure of a gameplan once he breaks through the initial PnR, but he has literally years of seasoning to come to figure out a strategy there.

[humblebum]

He's already really freaking good. You can tell he still is unsure of a gameplan once he breaks through the initial PnR, but he has literally years of seasoning to come to figure out a strategy there.

Yeah, agreed. I think he's got to go back to that Jarrett Jack matchup video and learn some tricks of changing angles, position and speeds to get all the way to the paint/basket area.

Smart will have to learn how to play with pace and body/hand positioning science of splitting, gaining a step on an opponent to be successful. Once he learns how to consistently gain certain "kill zones" spots on the floor his passing, vision and touch will be put on display. Smart has a flair for getting in the mix and making plays in tight spaces. He has good touch and decent body control. Just has to get into space and go up vertical. Right now he's searching laterally for blue skies and finding that NBA athletes will fly up there and swat it away.

Once he slows things down, gets into the body of the opponent and then rises vertically he'll be very tough to stop, especially when you consider his size and potential rebounding prowess at the PG spot.