Most likely going to be better Wiggins or Noel?

[E-Balla]

You are basically saying screw Noel who already plays one side of the floor at an elite level because Wiggins has the potential to be good on both ends even if he isn't average on either end yet. I don't see how Noel can't be the next Deke or Big Ben. He's already one of the 5 best players on one whole side of the ball as a skinny undeveloped rook.

Wiggins offensive numbers on the season are below average, but his numbers since late December are likely above average. Last I checked, about 7 games ago, Wiggins was averaging 19 ppg on .538 TS% with 2.5 APG in that span of 35 games. I'd think that's at least average, if not above it.

Since he started that 20 streak he's averaging 18.0/4.5/2.1 in 37.7 minutes a night (yes 18 points and 2 assists as a SG) on 53.3 TS but I wouldn't say he's above average offensively. He still can't create looks for himself or others at all outside of the post (and he's not efficient enough down low to warrant getting touches down low on a good team).

I like the guy but he's not ready to contribute to winning basketball teams like Noel is.

[Zeitgeister]

You are basically saying screw Noel who already plays one side of the floor at an elite level because Wiggins has the potential to be good on both ends even if he isn't average on either end yet. I don't see how Noel can't be the next Deke or Big Ben. He's already one of the 5 best players on one whole side of the ball as a skinny undeveloped rook.

Wiggins offensive numbers on the season are below average, but his numbers since late December are likely above average. Last I checked, about 7 games ago, Wiggins was averaging 19 ppg on .538 TS% with 2.5 APG in that span of 35 games. I'd think that's at least average, if not above it.

Since he started that 20 streak he's averaging 18.0/4.5/2.1 in 37.7 minutes a night (yes 18 points and 2 assists as a SG) on 53.3 TS but I wouldn't say he's above average offensively. He still can't create looks for himself or others at all outside of the post (and he's not efficient enough down low to warrant getting touches down low on a good team).

I like the guy but he's not ready to contribute to winning basketball teams like Noel is.

He plays small forward.

He can't create looks for himself? That's just wrong. Who do you think was creating looks for him when Rubio was down in January? That was his best month by the way, he was averaging about 20 ppg on a .550 TS%. He mixes in some drives to the rim off the dribble and he gets fouled a lot. He has a very nice developing post game.

[E-Balla]

Wiggins offensive numbers on the season are below average, but his numbers since late December are likely above average. Last I checked, about 7 games ago, Wiggins was averaging 19 ppg on .538 TS% with 2.5 APG in that span of 35 games. I'd think that's at least average, if not above it.

Since he started that 20 streak he's averaging 18.0/4.5/2.1 in 37.7 minutes a night (yes 18 points and 2 assists as a SG) on 53.3 TS but I wouldn't say he's above average offensively. He still can't create looks for himself or others at all outside of the post (and he's not efficient enough down low to warrant getting touches down low on a good team).

I like the guy but he's not ready to contribute to winning basketball teams like Noel is.

He plays small forward.

He can't create looks for himself? That's just wrong. Who do you think was creating looks for him when Rubio was down in January? That was his best month by the way, he was averaging about 20 ppg on a .550 TS%. He mixes in some drives to the rim off the dribble and he gets fouled a lot. He has a very nice developing post game.

No it isn't wrong. One good month doesn't change the fact that he shoots 30% on pull up jumpers and shoots 39% from the field when he has to take a dribble before he shoots.

And I know he plays SF but he's supposed to be a SG. I personally never saw it but its what I've been told repeatedly.

[Zeitgeister]

Since he started that 20 streak he's averaging 18.0/4.5/2.1 in 37.7 minutes a night (yes 18 points and 2 assists as a SG) on 53.3 TS but I wouldn't say he's above average offensively. He still can't create looks for himself or others at all outside of the post (and he's not efficient enough down low to warrant getting touches down low on a good team).

I like the guy but he's not ready to contribute to winning basketball teams like Noel is.

He plays small forward.

He can't create looks for himself? That's just wrong. Who do you think was creating looks for him when Rubio was down in January? That was his best month by the way, he was averaging about 20 ppg on a .550 TS%. He mixes in some drives to the rim off the dribble and he gets fouled a lot. He has a very nice developing post game.

No it isn't wrong. One good month doesn't change the fact that he shoots 30% on pull up jumpers and shoots 39% from the field when he has to take a dribble before he shoots.

Let me guess, those are stats accumulated over the course of the year, right? I don't think that's particularly useful information for players in their rookie years, particularly when they've improved a lot since the first couple months of their season. Yes, Wiggins had a really good month in January it happens to all players in the league. They have months that are better than others.

Yes, his shooting has regressed. That doesn't change the fact that he has a .530 TS since December 26th averaging over 18 ppg and 2.5 assists per game in more than 40 games. You said his offense isn't even average and that is wrong. You said that he cannot create his own offense, and that sounds like a year old scouting report. Frankly, it doesn't sound like you've watched him play much this year.

[E-Balla]

He plays small forward.

He can't create looks for himself? That's just wrong. Who do you think was creating looks for him when Rubio was down in January? That was his best month by the way, he was averaging about 20 ppg on a .550 TS%. He mixes in some drives to the rim off the dribble and he gets fouled a lot. He has a very nice developing post game.

No it isn't wrong. One good month doesn't change the fact that he shoots 30% on pull up jumpers and shoots 39% from the field when he has to take a dribble before he shoots.

Let me guess, those are stats accumulated over the course of the year, right? I don't think that's particularly useful information for players in their rookie years, particularly when they've improved a lot since the first couple months of their season. Yes, Wiggins had a really good month in January it happens to all players in the league. They have months that are better than others.

Yes, his shooting has regressed. That doesn't change the fact that he has a .530 TS since December 26th averaging over 18 ppg and 2.5 assists per game in more than 40 games. You said his offense isn't even average and that is wrong. You said that he cannot create his own offense, and that sounds like a year old scouting report. Frankly, it doesn't sound like you've watched him play much this year.

His jumperwas falling more than it is now early in the season it was his drives that weren't working out. He's not consistently hitting jumpers off the bounce. Now he can get to the free throwline but he doesn't do any single thing on offense besides post up at an above average level and any one watching him without homer goggles can see it. He's not bad for a young player but in the grand scheme of things outside of his crazy athleticism and post game he has no positives offensively.

[Zeitgeister]

His jumperwas falling more than it is now early in the season it was his drives that weren't working out. He's not consistently hitting jumpers off the bounce. Now he can get to the free throwline but he doesn't do any single thing on offense besides post up at an above average level and any one watching him without homer goggles can see it. He's not bad for a young player but in the grand scheme of things outside of his crazy athleticism and post game he has no positives offensively.

You clearly don't watch him, so you don't see anything. You keep talking about his jump shot like it lends credence to your argument. He's a very good transition finisher and cutter. He shows the ability to draws fouls consistently. He shows some passing awareness out of the post, he finishes around the rim at about a 65% rate, his post game is pretty good.

We're talking about his overall offensive contributions over the past 40 games and in those games he's averaging over 18 ppg on a .530 TS%, 2.5 apg and in your world that is below average. You didn't do your due diligence on this subject before you said what you did and now you're trying to save face and it's not working.

[E-Balla]

His jumperwas falling more than it is now early in the season it was his drives that weren't working out. He's not consistently hitting jumpers off the bounce. Now he can get to the free throwline but he doesn't do any single thing on offense besides post up at an above average level and any one watching him without homer goggles can see it. He's not bad for a young player but in the grand scheme of things outside of his crazy athleticism and post game he has no positives offensively.

You clearly don't watch him, so you don't see anything. You keep talking about his jump shot like it lends credence to your argument. We're talking about his overall offensive contributions over the past 40 games and in those games he's averaging over 18 ppg on a .530 TS%, 2.5 apg and in your world that is below average. You didn't do your due diligence on this subject before you said what you did and now you're trying to save face and it's not working.

If a player played at exactly league average level they would average 16 points and 3 assists in Wiggins' playing time on 53.4 TS. Wiggins averages 18 ppg and 2 apg in the span you are referring to so my bad he's exactly average if you remove a third of his season. Wiggins was running cold early, played well enough for a decent amount of time to completely override that and since then has been at a steady level. The season is 4 months in and Wiggins was over a 15 PER (average level) in one month (since then he has a 13 PER - his seasonal average) but let's act like his best month is more indicative of his average level of play than the last two months and his seasonal averages.

[Zeitgeister]

My issue with using PER in this discussion is that it weighs heavily on defensive rebounding in particular which has nothing to do with this subject. He's not particularly good at that, and I wouldn't take issue with someone saying that.

"Let's act like his best month is more indicative of his average level of play"

who did that? I took his average over the last 40+ games. That's not a large enough sample size for you? If I were to just take his January month I would say that Wiggins is a 20 ppg scorer on a .55 TS% with a 17 PER this year. That's not what I said. He's a 18-19 ppg scorer on a .539 TS% (from my last estimation, yours says .532 counting the seven most recent games, not sure how accurate it is).

[Unbreakable99]

Probably because he is not as good?

How is Wiggins better? You're telling me that if a team is entering the playoffs, Wiggins as he is now would do more for that team than Nerlens Noel? Elaborate.

Seeing as how he shoots 30% when he is anywhere further than 3 feet from the basket... the opposing team wouldn't even have to respect him.

With you saying that then that must mean you think Wiggins would be more useful on a playoff team than DeAndre Jordan just because Jordan can't shoot beyond 3 feet.

[djphan]

taking shooting stats for a rookie is futile.... rookies especially young ones are just working out what they can and can't do.... happens to just about everyone....

the secondary skills are what matter at this point and noel is ahead now but that's because he's a big man and that was his calling card in college...

wiggins secondary skills are the alarming part.. namely the rebounding and the defensive stats and they are not at great levels... couple this with not so great numbers in college and it's an alarming trend that doesn't bode well for his future... durant had similar weak rates as a rookie also so it's not hopeless but he has a long long way to go... his ball handling needs a lot of improvement first and foremost...

so if i had to bet... it'd be noel...

[HeartBreakKid]

Probably because he is not as good?

How is Wiggins better? You're telling me that if a team is entering the playoffs, Wiggins as he is now would do more for that team than Nerlens Noel? Elaborate.

Seeing as how he shoots 30% when he is anywhere further than 3 feet from the basket... the opposing team wouldn't even have to respect him.

They don't really have to respect Wiggins much either. Wiggins isn't really special at any part of basketball yet, just shows promise for some.

Not being able to score when you're playing center isn't a big deal in the NBA. That puts Noel in a line with a lot of other bigs. If he can anchor a defense, then he is more valuable than Wiggins this season.

[Mattya]

Wiggins doesn't get respect? He already gets double teamed in the post.

[HeartBreakKid]

Wiggins doesn't get respect? He already gets double teamed in the post.

Depends who's guarding him, and you're only projecting from a bottom feeding team playing gimmie RS games. No good team would double team Andrew Wiggins in the post if he was on a playoff team.

His post game really is not that good, it's nice that he is using it at a young age, but his moves are still elementary from there. 19 year old Andrew Wiggins post game is not going to win any games in a serious setting.

I'm seeing a lot of Timberwolves tags here. Not a good sign.


To put things in perspective, some of you guys who think Wiggins is already a playoff caliber starting player, where do you rank him amongst wings? If people are saying Wiggins can already contribute more than an All defense caliber player, then I am assuming people think he is already an above average wing in the NBA?

[Mattya]

Wiggins doesn't get respect? He already gets double teamed in the post.

Depends who's guarding him, and you're only projecting from a bottom feeding team playing gimmie RS games. No good team would double team Andrew Wiggins in the post if he was on a playoff team.

His post game really is not that good, it's nice that he is using it at a young age, but his moves are still elementary from there. 19 year old Andrew Wiggins post game is not going to win any games in a serious setting.

I'm seeing a lot of Timberwolves tags here. Not a good sign.


To put things in perspective, some of you guys who think Wiggins is already a playoff caliber starting player, where do you rank him amongst wings? If people are saying Wiggins can already contribute more than an All defense caliber player, then I am assuming people think he is already an above average wing in the NBA?

oh no Timberwolves fans debating about Timberwolves players. Try a better bait approach the next time.

[Zeitgeister]

To put things in perspective, some of you guys who think Wiggins is already a playoff caliber starting player, where do you rank him amongst wings? If people are saying Wiggins can already contribute more than an All defense caliber player, then I am assuming people think he is already an above average wing in the NBA?

Who said that Wiggins is a playoff caliber starter right now?

[HeartBreakKid]

To put things in perspective, some of you guys who think Wiggins is already a playoff caliber starting player, where do you rank him amongst wings? If people are saying Wiggins can already contribute more than an All defense caliber player, then I am assuming people think he is already an above average wing in the NBA?

Did you not read the rhetorical question that was posted earlier?

Depends who's guarding him, and you're only projecting from a bottom feeding team playing gimmie RS games. No good team would double team Andrew Wiggins in the post if he was on a playoff team.

His post game really is not that good, it's nice that he is using it at a young age, but his moves are still elementary from there. 19 year old Andrew Wiggins post game is not going to win any games in a serious setting.

I'm seeing a lot of Timberwolves tags here. Not a good sign.


To put things in perspective, some of you guys who think Wiggins is already a playoff caliber starting player, where do you rank him amongst wings? If people are saying Wiggins can already contribute more than an All defense caliber player, then I am assuming people think he is already an above average wing in the NBA?

oh no Timberwolves fans debating about Timberwolves players. Try a better bait approach the next time.

So out of all of that, that's the one thing you decided to respond too? I don't need to bait, it's really obvious what's going on here. Do you have anything to say about where Wiggins ranks or not? If you're going to imply that he's an impact player, then say something definitive. If he's not an impact player, then say he is not.

You're also a hypocrite, seeing as your 2nd sentence literally is a bait.

[Zeitgeister]

To put things in perspective, some of you guys who think Wiggins is already a playoff caliber starting player, where do you rank him amongst wings? If people are saying Wiggins can already contribute more than an All defense caliber player, then I am assuming people think he is already an above average wing in the NBA?

Did you not read the rhetorical question that was posted earlier?

Are you referring to this question?

You're telling me that if a team is entering the playoffs, Wiggins as he is now would do more for that team than Nerlens Noel? Elaborate.

If so, how did your "rhetorical" question lead you to this conclusion?

To put things in perspective, some of you guys who think Wiggins is already a playoff caliber starting player

[Mattya]

To put things in perspective, some of you guys who think Wiggins is already a playoff caliber starting player, where do you rank him amongst wings? If people are saying Wiggins can already contribute more than an All defense caliber player, then I am assuming people think he is already an above average wing in the NBA?

Did you not read the rhetorical question that was posted earlier?

Depends who's guarding him, and you're only projecting from a bottom feeding team playing gimmie RS games. No good team would double team Andrew Wiggins in the post if he was on a playoff team.

His post game really is not that good, it's nice that he is using it at a young age, but his moves are still elementary from there. 19 year old Andrew Wiggins post game is not going to win any games in a serious setting.

I'm seeing a lot of Timberwolves tags here. Not a good sign.


To put things in perspective, some of you guys who think Wiggins is already a playoff caliber starting player, where do you rank him amongst wings? If people are saying Wiggins can already contribute more than an All defense caliber player, then I am assuming people think he is already an above average wing in the NBA?

oh no Timberwolves fans debating about Timberwolves players. Try a better bait approach the next time.

So out of all of that, that's the one thing you decided to respond too? I don't need to bait, it's really obvious what's going on here. Do you have anything to say about where Wiggins ranks or not? If you're going to imply that he's an impact player, then say something definitive. If he's not an impact player, then say he is not.

You're also a hypocrite, seeing as your 2nd sentence literally is a bait.

I made my response you just decided to move the goalposts on your claim. Not unexpected.

Considering you resorted to baiting after 1 response it is clear, that you do need to bait, and you don't have much to offer.

Baiter cries foul when he gets called out. Typical.

[Sixteen]

Wiggins will be the flashier player. Noel is and will continue to be the better basketball player. Definitely didn't see this coming. I didn't even see it being debatable.

[76ciology]

Noel at 14.3 PER now. I hope he keeps it up.