Marcus Smart is nothing special...why are yall so delusional?

Gomes3PC · Post #141 » by **Gomes3PC** » Fri Mar 20, 2015 2:09 pm

Smart is a more physical defender, and I think he puts in more effort. He is defending like AB did his 2nd year in the league when he finally got a little burn from Doc. Now that he's playing 30 MPG, AB's nowhere near the ballhound he was back then.

bucknersrevenge · Post #142 » by **bucknersrevenge** » Fri Mar 20, 2015 2:21 pm

jirrit wrote:
BannersOnly wrote:The best two things about Smart is his body and attitude. He has a man's body and plays hard without sulking. Conversely, those are the two worst things about Sully. The guy is a fat slob and he sulks and pouts far too much on the court for my likeing. I've never been sold on Smart being anything more than just a solid combo guard off the bench and I still think that's where he'll end up being when he really hits his prime years of his career. Not bad and not a "bust" but certainly nowhere near the star or above average starter that some fans on this board seem to think he will be. He's basically the guard version of Crowder. Tough, gritty player that will play hard every night but never be anything special. It is what it is.

Solid combo guard off the bench his ceiling? That's actually where he is now, or maybe even better already. Season is 2/3rd and we were supposed to have a tanking team

The kid is 20 now right? Prime for a player is what, 25-28? Already in thefirst year we've seen improvement in his shot which was certainly below average before. And usually defense is the issue with most rookies but not him. He can be a starter in this league for years just based on his defense which is at elite level right now as a rookie. He's mature. Has a good worth ethic. You're telling me THIS kid is going to plateau out now after his rookie year for the rest of his career? THIS kid is not going to work hard to get any better than he is right now?? Yeah, I don't buy that.

FreeDrop · Post #143 » by **FreeDrop** » Fri Mar 20, 2015 3:07 pm

He's already the leader of this team -- you can see it. and he's 20!

He's a special player -- i dont know if he'll ever blow you out of the water with his stats, but he's a winner and he does all the things you need on a winning team with his leadership and heady play.

lon3lytoaster · Post #144 » by **lon3lytoaster** » Fri Mar 20, 2015 4:57 pm

The play's he makes on defense - for a now just turned 21 year old are very special. The offense, I'll admit has been up and down but I still think he can develop that part of his game in the NBA. But when Marcus is confident, he can be a threat. Just needs to not get half way to the rim and pass out as much. One, two more dribbles and he could get some easy looks.

KGboss · Post #145 » by **KGboss** » Fri Mar 20, 2015 5:01 pm

lon3lytoaster wrote:The play's he makes on defense - for a now just turned 21 year old are very special. The offense, I'll admit has been up and down but I still think he can develop that part of his game in the NBA. But when Marcus is confident, he can be a threat. Just needs to not get half way to the rim and pass out as much. One, two more dribbles and he could get some easy looks.

Actually the drive and dish is a great tool. That's what Westbrook thrives on. Driving to the FT line and then kicking out to the open man. Not a bad tool to have in his pocket and im glad to see him practicing it in game situations.

I agree though that he needs to figure out a way where half the time he can find a way to get himself open and either hook it in with his great post moves he learned in college, or learn a step back jump shot like Crowder has been displaying as of late. The drive and dish really isnt a low to what he is trying to do out there though.

He will put this together and has made great strides already in only 1 year. 2-3 years from now? Watch out NBA.

lon3lytoaster · Post #146 » by **lon3lytoaster** » Fri Mar 20, 2015 6:02 pm

KGboss wrote:
lon3lytoaster wrote:The play's he makes on defense - for a now just turned 21 year old are very special. The offense, I'll admit has been up and down but I still think he can develop that part of his game in the NBA. But when Marcus is confident, he can be a threat. Just needs to not get half way to the rim and pass out as much. One, two more dribbles and he could get some easy looks.

Actually the drive and dish is a great tool. That's what Westbrook thrives on. Driving to the FT line and then kicking out to the open man. Not a bad tool to have in his pocket and im glad to see him practicing it in game situations.

I agree though that he needs to figure out a way where half the time he can find a way to get himself open and either hook it in with his great post moves he learned in college, or learn a step back jump shot like Crowder has been displaying as of late. The drive and dish really isnt a low to what he is trying to do out there though.

He will put this together and has made great strides already in only 1 year. 2-3 years from now? Watch out NBA.

Oh, no, absolutely. The drive and kick isn't a problem at all as a tool in the arsenal. I just think he's over kicking instead of attacking. Been so many times he'll have a big just above the free throw line and he'll pass it out and the possession won't amount to much. Just would like in those situations he puts a move on the defender, takes the extra dribble and lays it in.

He's a gamer, though. He'll learn when to use those little head fakes and chane of pace moves to get to the rim.

GuyClinch · Post #147 » by **GuyClinch** » Fri Mar 20, 2015 8:03 pm

The kid is 20 now right? Prime for a player is what, 25-28

I am not down on Marcus or anything like that. I believe he can and will improve offensively - and become a good to great player in the league. But I don't think for a minute that a PG can start for years based on defense alone. Four notable PG all-stars in the NBA this year..

Paul, Curry, Irving, Wall.

Some guys make it for legacy reasons like Parker - I am ignoring those guys..
Paul - 24.8 (and one metric had him as the best defender in the game).
Curry - 27.6
Irving - 21.8
John Wall 20.6

So you see the all-star PGs are all productive - and some of those guys can D you up too. But you need that baseline production. Smart's production is 11.3 PER - Wall's was 15.6 as a rookie and I think he was 20 as well. Smart just needs to do a lot more on offense. I hope we see a lot more productive games out of him down the stretch.

bucknersrevenge · Post #148 » by **bucknersrevenge** » Sat Mar 21, 2015 12:54 am

GuyClinch wrote:
The kid is 20 now right? Prime for a player is what, 25-28

I am not down on Marcus or anything like that. I believe he can and will improve offensively - and become a good to great player in the league. But I don't think for a minute that a PG can start for years based on defense alone. Four notable PG all-stars in the NBA this year..

Paul, Curry, Irving, Wall.

Some guys make it for legacy reasons like Parker - I am ignoring those guys..
Paul - 24.8 (and one metric had him as the best defender in the game).
Curry - 27.6
Irving - 21.8
John Wall 20.6

So you see the all-star PGs are all productive - and some of those guys can D you up too. But you need that baseline production. Smart's production is 11.3 PER - Wall's was 15.6 as a rookie and I think he was 20 as well. Smart just needs to do a lot more on offense. I hope we see a lot more productive games out of him down the stretch.

Fair point but I still say a little context is necessary. John Wall started 64 games averaging 38mpg on a Washington team that won 23 games total all season and had much more overall talent than we did. They finished fifth in their division that year. Marcus may have a lower PER but you could argue his minutes have been overall more effective due to the impact he's making at the defensive end alone, not to mention hustle plays and timely 3-point shots.

GuyClinch · Post #149 » by **GuyClinch** » Sat Mar 21, 2015 2:00 am

Fair point but I still say a little context is necessary. John Wall started 64 games averaging 38mpg on a Washington team that won 23 games total all season and had much more overall talent than we did. They finished fifth in their division that year. Marcus may have a lower PER but you could argue his minutes have been overall more effective due to the impact he's making at the defensive end alone, not to mention hustle plays and timely 3-point shots.

No doubt Wall got handed the keys to the car. My point is we don't see defense only guys holding down starting spots in the NBA at PG. TA was one of the best I have ever seen defensively - and he still didn't start all the time. Tyson Chandler OTOH - mostly about the defense..

HeartBreakKid · Post #150 » by **HeartBreakKid** » Sat Mar 21, 2015 5:16 am

CeltsfanSinceBirth wrote:
OFWGKTA wrote:
KumaJG wrote:He is shooting 3's(at a terrible percentage. Hell even his FG% subpar.) because that the limited of his offensive game at this stage of his career. He is still learning to pick his spot. Just because he is a rookie doesn't mean he is above criticism.

After last night he's up to .341 from three, which isn't great, but definitely not terrible.

The league average for 3PT% this season is currently .349. Smart is almost average, which is a miracle in itself considering the knock on him was that he couldn't shoot.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_stats.html

The knock on him was really his shot selection, which can still be pretty bad. The fact that he chooses not to put the ball on the floor when he should is a little hard to watch.

Cyclical · Post #151 » by **Cyclical** » Sat Mar 21, 2015 8:09 am

Uh, would a guy who's not special punch an opponent in the nut sack for no apparent reason? I don't think so.

Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

jirrit · Post #152 » by **jirrit** » Sat Mar 21, 2015 9:35 am

bucknersrevenge wrote:
jirrit wrote:
BannersOnly wrote:The best two things about Smart is his body and attitude. He has a man's body and plays hard without sulking. Conversely, those are the two worst things about Sully. The guy is a fat slob and he sulks and pouts far too much on the court for my likeing. I've never been sold on Smart being anything more than just a solid combo guard off the bench and I still think that's where he'll end up being when he really hits his prime years of his career. Not bad and not a "bust" but certainly nowhere near the star or above average starter that some fans on this board seem to think he will be. He's basically the guard version of Crowder. Tough, gritty player that will play hard every night but never be anything special. It is what it is.

Solid combo guard off the bench his ceiling? That's actually where he is now, or maybe even better already. Season is 2/3rd and we were supposed to have a tanking team

The kid is 20 now right? Prime for a player is what, 25-28? Already in thefirst year we've seen improvement in his shot which was certainly below average before. And usually defense is the issue with most rookies but not him. He can be a starter in this league for years just based on his defense which is at elite level right now as a rookie. He's mature. Has a good worth ethic. You're telling me THIS kid is going to plateau out now after his rookie year for the rest of his career? THIS kid is not going to work hard to get any better than he is right now?? Yeah, I don't buy that.

No, I'm saying that he's there NOW, so he'll be much much better.

bobnwa · Post #153 » by **bobnwa** » Sat Mar 21, 2015 1:37 pm

After reading the results of the Spurs game, it is easy to come to the conclusion he is a real jerk. He has had on good game as a Celtic and that is it.

Fidel Sarcasmo · Post #154 » by **Fidel Sarcasmo** » Sat Mar 21, 2015 1:50 pm

marcus dropped the pee-pee hammer last night.

sam_I_am · Post #155 » by **sam_I_am** » Sat Mar 21, 2015 2:20 pm

Marcus is special in that he impacts the game in winning ways despite looking like a fifth starter or role player this year. Most 20 year olds mature physically but I don't think Smart has upside there - he is NBA mature already. He will get better - a lot better even and the intangibles are impressive - but Westbrook territory ain't happening. Anyone expecting him to be "great" is setting themselves up for disappointment. Paul Pierce was great but I don't think he ever made first team all NBA. Great in the NBA is incredible - and Smart will never be that IMHO .... But he will strive to be great and that is enough for me.

gocelts · Post #156 » by **gocelts** » Sat Mar 21, 2015 2:53 pm

Haha. Good for Smart. That Cub Scout spurs team better get used everything not going their way once Duncan retires.

It was a bad foul. But some of you are acting like this is a JV league.

Pierce SPIT on the cavs bench, KG is notorious for ball shots, Rondo went after a ref....settle down...good players get emotional during games and lose a bit of control. I'm glad we have one on the roster. If Zeller and Olynyk had that type of emotion, they'd be all stars.

bucknersrevenge · Post #157 » by **bucknersrevenge** » Sat Mar 21, 2015 4:02 pm

jirrit wrote:
bucknersrevenge wrote:
jirrit wrote:
Solid combo guard off the bench his ceiling? That's actually where he is now, or maybe even better already. Season is 2/3rd and we were supposed to have a tanking team

The kid is 20 now right? Prime for a player is what, 25-28? Already in thefirst year we've seen improvement in his shot which was certainly below average before. And usually defense is the issue with most rookies but not him. He can be a starter in this league for years just based on his defense which is at elite level right now as a rookie. He's mature. Has a good worth ethic. You're telling me THIS kid is going to plateau out now after his rookie year for the rest of his career? THIS kid is not going to work hard to get any better than he is right now?? Yeah, I don't buy that.

No, I'm saying that he's there NOW, so he'll be much much better.

Sorry. I quoted you but I wasn't specifically addressing your comment. I think you and I are in agreement here.

humblebum · Post #158 » by **humblebum** » Sat Mar 21, 2015 5:17 pm

GuyClinch wrote:
Fair point but I still say a little context is necessary. John Wall started 64 games averaging 38mpg on a Washington team that won 23 games total all season and had much more overall talent than we did. They finished fifth in their division that year. Marcus may have a lower PER but you could argue his minutes have been overall more effective due to the impact he's making at the defensive end alone, not to mention hustle plays and timely 3-point shots.

No doubt Wall got handed the keys to the car. My point is we don't see defense only guys holding down starting spots in the NBA at PG. TA was one of the best I have ever seen defensively - and he still didn't start all the time. Tyson Chandler OTOH - mostly about the defense..

But we saw young TA, and Smart is that same guy in terms of his mind and tenacity for the defensive end. He's tons less explosive, but tons more deft and under control. Bradley has a different style defensive but Smart has more offensive potential than Bradley coming into the league.

I just think it's important to have perspective. Smart was a good driver in PnR and transition in college. Straight line drives mostly when he's able to get some momentum. He'll get to a solid level driving the ball and once he learns a few tricks (he's obviously a guy who knows how to play to the refs) he'll find ways to get himself to the line.

By starting him at PG you set a tone. Now maybe you come with Thomas-Smart or Thomas-Bradley-Smart to start games? The spacing of Smart-Bradley-Turner-Bass-Zeller just doesn't really work. You want to start Jonas or Kelly, but neither is really ready for the job. I'd probably start Datome or Young (could end up being starter in name only if they aren't making shots early) and let Turner be the guy off the bench running the team.

Mad Guru · Post #159 » by **Mad Guru** » Sat Mar 21, 2015 10:20 pm

KGboss wrote:
The_Ghost_of_JB wrote:Smart played well but last night but I am not going to lie: Not crazy about all the three pointers he is taking (12 last night) Those are hit and miss for him and I would like to see more mid range and driving shots.

This a 3 point shooting league, especially at the PG position. Nobody goes for the mid-range jumper anymore unless youre a big. I dont mind him taking those shots as long as hes being active throughout the game, which he was.

I just wanted to comment on this because it so blatantly untrue.

Goldsberry just wrote an article about a certain star pg's elite mid range game.

Not everyone is the Rockets yet.

chakdaddy · Post #160 » by **chakdaddy** » Sun Mar 22, 2015 3:59 pm

I think Hus downside us Tony Allen. Not bad. Not sure his ceiling is all that high though. A slightly better Tony Allen? Ironic re: osu