Political Roundtable - Part VI

[fishercob]

Where to?

[DCZards]

Where to?

...and with what money/resources?

It's naive and FAR to simplistic to think that all poor people in B'More have to do is MOVE and their world will somehow become just hunky-dory.

[dobrojim]

load up the wagons, go west and rip off Native American land.

[Induveca]

Where to?

Possibly a NE city with massive amounts of restaurants? Take kitchen jobs, keep taking assistance....have a real mass transit system. Do the jobs illegal immigrants are doing today. Baltimore is literally DEAD, it's one of the worst cities I've ever visited in the US outside of Detroit. Baltimore makes Buffalo look like a paradise.

Millions of latinos (many of them black like myself) with 100 bucks in their pocket figure out how to get to New York/Miami and open their own businesses or work in the service industries to save money. I have enough family in the projects to know, if they REALLY wanted to save up for a few months and get out of their situation they could. It's just easier to blame "the man" on holding them down, when they haven't learned a damn thing since leaving high school, and that's on their family being too lenient/clueless.

If the parents of the kids rioting are too stupid/selfish/downtrodden to rise up out of their situation giving them 17k a year will only result in a wasted 17k on alcohol, drugs, and poorly managed money. Improving education I agree with wholeheartedly, but the problem is Baltimore has NO JOBS. If the education program works, you're still decades away from companies opening businesses in Baltimore. I watch people I've known for decades buy Gatorade/steak/lobster with their food cards. You really think 17k a year in installment payments will not just be viewed as free money?

Second to improving education, I sincerely think the broken windows policing policy is desperately needed in Baltimore. It WORKS, I've seen the NYC of my childhood transformed into a near Disneyland.

You can't save the poor by patting them on the back, there is NO amount of hugs or "sympathy" to make someone more intelligent or more employable in the short term. There are still at least 2 generations for this problem to correct itself, and make no mistake much of the "problems" do stem from the questionable decisions made everyday in poor neighborhoods. 20 dollar bottle of rum, chicks, weed......or study/save/better myself? Very few people I know uptown choose option 2, and if they did they are LONG gone from the neighborhood and usually the entire city.

The ones that stay behind for their assistance? Every week for years my cousins promise they're "turning it around" instead they focus on unhealthy food, rum, chicks, weed, and dreams of the unattainable while watching television and collecting assistance. That's not a solution, that's guilt money.....which the country doesn't have.

[Induveca]

Where to?

...and with what money/resources?

It's naive and FAR to simplistic to think that all poor people in B'More have to do is MOVE and their world will somehow become just hunky-dory.

And it's completely naive to think you can raise 5 dollars on sports tickets and save an uneducated/violent city with close to ZERO jobs and a massive population of the unemployed. Most of Baltimore will sadly go the way of Detroit, it's dead. These same utopian "save the city!" arguments were made for Newark/Trenton/Detroit over the past few decades, utopian theorizing will not overcome global economic reality. Baltimore is no longer needed, factories are gone....not coming back. It's a dead city, populated by some of the least educated individuals in the entire country at the highest concentrations.

Again, sorry if I don't empathize some of my family made it from places like this to become wealthy in the US.



They were even black! Just get off your ass and chase a dream, but a REALISTIC one. Make a plan for your family/kids......it's a big country. Those who stay behind in Baltimore are choosing poverty, there is no solution for those who won't help themselves no matter how much money they're given. There is no comeback in Baltimore, just like Trenton and Newark.

[fishercob]

Indu, how did you get educated?

[Benjammin]

Sometimes I think Indu is really SD20, except he doesn't talk about his thighs or being a dentist.

Seriously though, I enjoy the conversation.

[Induveca]

Indu, how did you get educated?

Scholarship and self-taught programmer (and two jobs of course). Then I realized I made 5 times more money, incurred less debt freelancing as a programmer and dropped out of college and went into tech startups.

[Induveca]

Sometimes I think Indu is really SD20, except he doesn't talk about his thighs or being a dentist.

Seriously though, I enjoy the conversation.

Remember him but don't remember the "thigh" comments (lol?) and I'm terrified of dentists.

But seriously can't anyone see how it's hard for 3rd world immigrants to empathize with these protests? We're a huge portion of the U.S. Population.

Where we were racism is 100x worse.

To expect Baltimore to be reborn by violent protest and "nicer" cops is irresponsible. It's a dead city.

[crackhed]

But seriously can't anyone see how it's hard for 3rd world immigrants to empathize with these protests? We're a huge portion of the U.S. Population.

Where we were racism is 100x worse.

To expect Baltimore to be reborn by violent protest and "nicer" cops is irresponsible. It's a dead city.

i think everyone agrees with you about the senselessness of the violence, but where u err imo is when u talk about the issue as though it is strictly a problem of lack of effort on the part the of black community. the bigger culprit imo is hopelessness, not laziness

[Wes_Tiny_Abe_]

Where to?

...and with what money/resources?

It's naive and FAR to simplistic to think that all poor people in B'More have to do is MOVE and their world will somehow become just hunky-dory.

And it's completely naive to think you can raise 5 dollars on sports tickets and save an uneducated/violent city with close to ZERO jobs and a massive population of the unemployed. Most of Baltimore will sadly go the way of Detroit, it's dead. These same utopian "save the city!" arguments were made for Newark/Trenton/Detroit over the past few decades, utopian theorizing will not overcome global economic reality. Baltimore is no longer needed, factories are gone....not coming back. It's a dead city, populated by some of the least educated individuals in the entire country at the highest concentrations.

Again, sorry if I don't empathize some of my family made it from places like this to become wealthy in the US.



They were even black! Just get off your ass and chase a dream, but a REALISTIC one. Make a plan for your family/kids......it's a big country. Those who stay behind in Baltimore are choosing poverty, there is no solution for those who won't help themselves no matter how much money they're given. There is no comeback in Baltimore, just like Trenton and Newark.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kh-XE94kRc4[/youtube]

Doesn't one of your relatives run a dance hall in Washington Heights on the weekends?

[DCZards]

Sometimes I think Indu is really SD20, except he doesn't talk about his thighs or being a dentist.

Seriously though, I enjoy the conversation.

Nah, indu sounds more like one of those "Crazy Baldheads" that Bob Marley sings about.

[Induveca]

Sometimes I think Indu is really SD20, except he doesn't talk about his thighs or being a dentist.

Seriously though, I enjoy the conversation.

Nah, indu sounds more like one of those "Crazy Baldheads" that Bob Marley sings about.

When you've been on a journey from being born in 3rd world poverty to lower middle class NYC, to success as someone everyone thought was African-American it gives you a different perspective. Baltimore isn't going to recover from this, it's only downhill financially.....companies will leave and poor areas will no longer targets be for targets for renovation companies.

First thing I did was short Marsh and McLennan USA. They have over $713 million in liability and property insurance in Baltimore.

[dckingsfan]

Sometimes I think Indu is really SD20, except he doesn't talk about his thighs or being a dentist.

Seriously though, I enjoy the conversation.

Nah, indu sounds more like one of those "Crazy Baldheads" that Bob Marley sings about.

When you've been on a journey from being born in 3rd world poverty to lower middle class NYC, to success as someone everyone thought was African-American it gives you a different perspective. Baltimore isn't going to recover from this, it's only downhill financially.....companies will leave and poor areas will no longer targets be for targets for renovation companies.

First thing I did was short Marsh and McLennan USA. They have over $713 million in liability and property insurance in Baltimore.

I think Detroit is a good warning shot for Baltimore - they haven't hit bottom. And they had to go under before anyone would help.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Guys I have a few ideas:

1)Publicize the predator, not the victim.

Instead of looting, rioting, or holding peace marches I propose private citizens mobilize to make the offending officers known to the masses. Put the names, ID numbers, photographs, and most importantly any controversial cases in which the officers used deadly force on something like an offender registry.

Everybody knows about Eric Garner but the guy who's getting away unscathed is the one cop who leaped up and choked him. Why isn't he as much a household name as Darren Wilson?

The public should know the NAMES of the prosecutors who fail to find this type of policeman even worthy of a trial. People should see the FACES of the judges who do not hold them accountable. It's sort of a scarlet letter, but I think Darren Wilson's whereabouts need to be tracked. So does George Zimmerman's. If people say it's a violation of their civil liberties, then change civil laws that prevent murderous police from even being held civilly liable.

2)Every police officer should be rated like the NBA rates officials. The best referees get to work the NCAA tournament, the Super Bowl, the NBA Finals, etc. Officers should have incentives for good work and they should also be rated for questionable actions. "Dirty" cops should be the type who's partners can drop them. Police should not have a pack mentality that allows them to high five like they did in Detroit after beating a man they had apprehended. The 33-year old policeman who shot the fleeing 50 year old father in the back several times should be WELL KNOWN TO AMERICA. His face, his badge number, everything about him.

3)Black people need to stop acting like a bunch of idiots each time a killing occurs. The Jews organized and hunted down Nazi war criminals. Litigators, bereaved, outraged, whoever should form vigils to find police who have committed brutal acts and hold them accountable. Civil laws need to be changed if right now police can repeatedly get away with murder. Put ENERGY into teaching young people about the acts of offending cops. We learned about Emmitt Till. (sp?) People need to know the names of the people who killed Trayvon Martin, Eric Garner, etc just like they know James Earl Ray. More important, they need to chronicle the value of he lives that were taken by the killers. Ask why the police didn't use alternative methods. Put all of this online in a great big social media site. The Jews discussed their tormentors and in many cases brought Nazis to justice 30 years later. I think being vigilant in a good way makes sense.

Most of all--realize we're only talking about isolated incidents. Make it so even police don't want to tolerate the idiots among their ranks who make all police look bad. The rioting and looting exacerbates things. All cops are being made to look bad. I think it makes sense to figuratively throw ONLY THE BAD ONES under the bus. Make them known and the ones to police them will be the police themselves

4)Body cams on every police officer is a no brainer.

5)MOST IMPORTANTLY: Mindfulness exercises and sensitivity/public awareness should be daily activity for police. When a very, very, very few officers commit atrocities there has to be one of two things at work: Either deep-seeded hate or a fear-based response. The violating police need to be grilled as to what they were thinking.

EVERY WORD of what Darren Ferguson said needs to be evaluated. "He was going to kill me" "He was like Hulk Hogan" etc. What state of mind was 6'4", 210 pound, armed officer Ferguson in when he approached so close and without backup that a struggle for the gun occurred? And if he was so scared, how is it he gave chase and shot a fleeing, unarmed, suspect?


I could go on but I think the number one thing people need to do is find ways to reform the system. Identifying and holding INDIVIDUAL OFFICERS accountable is one thing. Rating officers independent of the police internal affairs is another. Every time an officer uses deadly force or even a taser, there needs to be more than pencil whipping. There needs to be scrutiny and accountability. Incentives for good policing and harsh consequences for brutality need to occur. Partners need to be dumped if they are bad cops. Most importantly, get inside the minds of police. How in the hell can you shoot people in the back multiple times when you know they're not armed nor are they posing imminent danger to anyone?

The judges and the status quo (never shining the light on the culprits) is the true problem.

Networks just want to show rioting and looting and funerals for ratings. That stuff's not proactive. It's reactive and 99% counter-productive.

[DCZards]

Sometimes I think Indu is really SD20, except he doesn't talk about his thighs or being a dentist.

Seriously though, I enjoy the conversation.

Nah, indu sounds more like one of those "Crazy Baldheads" that Bob Marley sings about.

When you've been on a journey from being born in 3rd world poverty to lower middle class NYC, to success as someone everyone thought was African-American it gives you a different perspective. Baltimore isn't going to recover from this, it's only downhill financially.....companies will leave and poor areas will no longer targets be for targets for renovation companies.

First thing I did was short Marsh and McLennan USA. They have over $713 million in liability and property insurance in Baltimore.

But you are not "African-American"...and it's a little insulting when you constantly suggest that because you are "dark-skinned" you somehow know what it's like to be an African-American. It's good that you have a "different perspective." You are certainly entitled to it. And (surprise, surprise) I agree with many aspects of it. But you will always be someone who can only view things from outside of the African-American experience in the US...no matter how dark your skin is.

[Wes_Tiny_Abe_]

Sometimes I think Indu is really SD20, except he doesn't talk about his thighs or being a dentist.

Seriously though, I enjoy the conversation.

Nah, indu sounds more like one of those "Crazy Baldheads" that Bob Marley sings about.

When you've been on a journey from being born in 3rd world poverty to lower middle class NYC, to success as someone everyone thought was African-American it gives you a different perspective. Baltimore isn't going to recover from this, it's only downhill financially.....companies will leave and poor areas will no longer targets be for targets for renovation companies.

First thing I did was short Marsh and McLennan USA. They have over $713 million in liability and property insurance in Baltimore.

NYC would be better off if all the chains left.
DC would be better off too.

[dckingsfan]

This kind of backs Indu's thinking:
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/01/opini ... .html?_r=0

Basically, we have thrown lots of money at the issue - but it isn't one of money and government policy.

[dckingsfan]

Guys I have a few ideas:

1)Publicize the predator, not the victim.

Instead of looting, rioting, or holding peace marches I propose private citizens mobilize to make the offending officers known to the masses. Put the names, ID numbers, photographs, and most importantly any controversial cases in which the officers used deadly force on something like an offender registry.

If we started doing that - quickly you would find lots of officers leaving the field. And you would find lots of assassinations. And what group would you trust to start the registry? Al Sharpton?

[DCZards]

This kind of backs Indu's thinking:
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/01/opini ... .html?_r=0

Basically, we have thrown lots of money at the issue - but it isn't one of money and government policy.

On that same NYT webpage you'll find another perspective from someone who has actually studied and written about the situation in Baltimore. It's entitled "Black Culture is Not the Problem."

Scroll down to the bottom of the NYT Op-Ed page and you'll find it. I couldn't figure out how to capture and post the live link.