Political Roundtable - Part VI

[dckingsfan]

Pine - no doubt you are onto something there. It is hard to read both the NY Times and Wall Street Journal opinion section if you lean one way or the other (example). But it does give you an idea of why someone has an opinion.

As we become more digital - I think that is the way things will lean. More and more folks work from their homes. Even worldwide where ISIS is able to reach a very small subset of individuals that can make a pretty large impact.

But what is the solution to that problem - I have thought long and hard on this one and don't have a solution.

[nate33]

Pine - no doubt you are onto something there. It is hard to read both the NY Times and Wall Street Journal opinion section if you lean one way or the other (example). But it does give you an idea of why someone has an opinion.

As we become more digital - I think that is the way things will lean. More and more folks work from their homes. Even worldwide where ISIS is able to reach a very small subset of individuals that can make a pretty large impact.

But what is the solution to that problem - I have thought long and hard on this one and don't have a solution.

The solution is devolution of power to states and to local communities. If different groups of people don't get along very well, there's no reason to force them to.

[Induveca]

Interesting, very respected investigative journalist Seymour Hersh supposedly outs the real story on Bin Laden.

http://www.lrb.co.uk/v37/n10/seymour-m- ... -bin-laden

It's not as controversial as some are making it out to be, all makes perfect sense. Confuses me why Americans are shocked that stories are crafted for public consumption around outcomes of CIA operations.

In short, the entire "Zero Dark Thirty" story was a fabrication.

Background on Hersh:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seymour_Hersh

[Zonkerbl]

So... they concocted a story to hide the fact that the $25 million bounty on bin Laden's head was actually effective in encouraging someone to betray him.

Uh... really struggling to feel outraged about it though.

[Induveca]

So... they concocted a story to hide the fact that the $25 million bounty on bin Laden's head was actually effective in encouraging someone to betray him.

Uh... really struggling to feel outraged about it though.

Yeah far from controversial or upsetting to me either, but still a very interesting read. The fact Fox News hasn't picked this up and ran with it is interesting as well. Apparently only a British publication would print it....an obvious fear of administration backlash by all US outlets (unless they crush it like CNN).

[dorianwrite]

There's a larger point that's being missed here. The scandal is not exactly that the Obama administration told a cover story; that happens a lot, and folks should basically expect it when it comes to undercover operations. The real issue here is that the Pakistani government, supposedly a U.S. ally, apparently had Osama bin Laden under wraps starting in 2006 and did not inform the U.S.. Why should there have to have been a special informant and a U.S. special forces operation in order to neutralize bin Laden?

If anyone is interested in a great read that questions whether the U.S. invasion of Afghanistan was misplaced and if Pakistan hasn't actually been a greater source of issues in the region, try Ted Rall's recent After We Kill You, We Will Invite You Back As Honored Guests: Unembedded in Afghanistan.

[Induveca]

Good points, Hersh did a good job outlining that as well. That also doesn't shock me.....in reality all Obama/staffers should have said was "the details of the operation are classified", and announced his death.

A lot easier then fabricating such a detailed story, unless of course you want a movie released during a reelection campaign.

[dorianwrite]

Absolutely disagree. In order for there to any kind of oversight of our government by the citizens it is supposed to be in service of, there needs to be a lot less "classified" material.

Coming at the Obama administration as a sometime Leftist critic, I would prefer that they not concoct these cover stories and be more honest with the American people. I know we think there are reasons to give Pakistan a cover story (and Hersh goes into a number of those reasons), but the Pakistani government's behavior over the years has not justified our continued support. Might it not be better if we stop covering for dishonest actors like Pakistan and Saudi Arabia? (Rall is, again, revelatory in this regard.)

The administration does deserve credit for taking care of business once they had confirmation of bin Laden's presence in Abbottobad. Hersh points out reasons why the maneuver was potentially politically dangerous for Obama, but he did make the call.

[Induveca]

In Pakistan the current government is the best option for the U.S., even with the corruption and distrust. They mostly come from US/UK education backgrounds and are capitalists.

They may not like our government looming over their shoulders at all times, but they dislike the extremists in their countries as much as the U.S. does. Their current prime minister owns a steel conglomerate...

[dorianwrite]

You're talking to the wrong guy to have discussion of their capitalist leanings carry any weight. As we see in our own country, politicians with business ties can be trusted to blindly and unethically favor business interests, and not much else.

Additionally, the fact that they're easier to feel chummy with because they have Western educations doesn't mean that they aren't thoroughgoingly corrupt and that their actions aren't frequently inimical to U.S. interests. They cannot be trusted.

[Induveca]

"Better the devil you know"

[dorianwrite]

Kim Jong Un has a Western education. Fat lot of good it does us or his suffering people.

[nate33]

Dundalk man brutally beaten by a group of "teens"

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0yqXvYZ1TGE[/youtube]

This should help Baltimore recover.

[dckingsfan]

This is at best anemic...

Forecasters in the latest Wall Street Journal survey estimated the U.S. economy contracted at a 0.3% pace in the first quarter because of hits from winter weather and the West Coast port slowdown. But the panel, on average, sees annualized economic growth of 2.8% in the second quarter, supported by stronger job gains and wage growth.

Coupled with...

The Labor Department said Wednesday that productivity, which is the amount of output per hour of work, fell at 1.9 percent rate in the first quarter. Productivity dropped at a 2.1 percent rate in the final three months of 2014.

And this could get really ugly.

[dckingsfan]

When I open the paper - it seems like the rest of the world is in free-fall these days. The headlines for the NY Times and Wall Street Journal seem very negative for everything outside our borders. Seem the same to you guys?

[dckingsfan]

Surprised no one posted this:
http://www.thecrimson.com/article/2014/ ... rimination

What would happen to Black and Hispanic admissions?

[TGW]

Another man dies in police custody...this time an American soldier.

Are we outraged now?

http://www.cnn.com/videos/justice/2015/ ... s-jail.cnn

[FreeBalling]

Another man dies in police custody...this time an American soldier.

Are we outraged now?

http://www.cnn.com/videos/justice/2015/ ... s-jail.cnn

Any idea why the man became so violent in his jail cell? All he had to do was keep his mouth shut and serve his 48 hours so he could go home to his family. Why provoke the police?

The death of this man is very disturbing. Black males and police have real issues in society. That's the perception I see. He should have just complied with the direction of the court and did his time. I'd like to see the whole tape, I'm sure the police could have just left him to cool down.

When the police stop me, I just answer their questions and only their questions. If I'm in the car, hands are at 10 and 2. I'm not moving around in the car and make sure my hands are visible from the driver side mirror. The objective here is to leave the police stop still breathing and unhurt.

[TGW]

Another man dies in police custody...this time an American soldier.

Are we outraged now?

http://www.cnn.com/videos/justice/2015/ ... s-jail.cnn

Any idea why the man became so violent in his jail cell? All he had to do was keep his mouth shut and serve his 48 hours so he could go home to his family. Why provoke the police?

The death of this man is very disturbing. Black males and police have real issues in society. That's the perception I see. He should have just complied with the direction of the court and did his time. I'd like to see the whole tape, I'm sure the police could have just left him to cool down.

When the police stop me, I just answer their questions and only their questions. If I'm in the car, hands are at 10 and 2. I'm not moving around in the car and make sure my hands are visible from the driver side mirror. The objective here is to leave the police stop still breathing and unhurt.

Here are the facts:

He had PTSD, which he had reported to them before he entered custody. He was smearing blood on the walls of his cell, which clearly indicated a sign of a mental disorder. He communicated that he couldn't breathe and was choking on blood.

He was supposed to be there on a 2-day stint for a DUI. He left their custody dead.

"Provoking" the police is your supposition--it isn't fact. And the burden of keeping him safe and alive is on the police, not the inmate. Also, there is something called proportanility, which wasn't used in this situation. They sent a 5-man team in full riot gear to subdue a soldier with PTSD. There was no doctor present. He died...

[dckingsfan]

I would like to wait until all the facts are presented on this one - seems like we keep jumping the gun.