All-Season Other Awards Discussion thread

[PaulieWal]

This is how I think the players will vote this year:
MVP - James Harden
Best Rookie - Andrew Wiggins
Man of the Year - Chris Paul or LeBron James
Best Defender - Deandre Jordan
Global Impact Player - Kobe Bryant or LeBron James
Hardest to Guard - Jamal Crawford
Clutch Performer - Kobe Bryant
Coach You Would Want to Play For - Doc Rivers
Best Home Court Advantage - GSW or Denver
Player You Wish Was on Your Team - Paul Pierce

[HeartBreakKid]

What the heck is man of the year? The player that does the most charity?

[HeartBreakKid]

I was a huge champion for Kidd as COY and he is doing a phenomenal job. He has out coached Thibs almost the entire series in my opinion, if the Bucks had some more talent (heck, just Jabari Parker) they probably would be up in the series.

So I have to ask, to those who had Kidd behind Bud/Kerr, are you guys considering changing that? This thread takes into account post season play, so I'm interested to see if Kidd is climbing up peoples ranks.

[bondom34]

I was a huge champion for Kidd as COY and he is doing a phenomenal job. He has out coached Thibs almost the entire series in my opinion, if the Bucks had some more talent (heck, just Jabari Parker) they probably would be up in the series.

So I have to ask, to those who had Kidd behind Bud/Kerr, are you guys considering changing that? This thread takes into account post season play, so I'm interested to see if Kidd is climbing up peoples ranks.

I'm contemplating it TBH. COY is kind of an obtuse award, I still don't put Kerr there b/c I think that roster is pretty loaded, so Bud did more w/ less. Kidd right now is doing quite a lot with not much at all as far as good veterans go. That team has Midds/Giannis and really no consistently good veterans. Ersan/Ilyasova maybe, but that's a stretch.

[Jaivl]

I'm contemplating it TBH. COY is kind of an obtuse award, I still don't put Kerr there b/c I think that roster is pretty loaded, so Bud did more w/ less.

Actually Bud did less with less

[Doctor MJ]

Bob Myers takes EOY:

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/warriors-g ... --nba.html

Interesting. Not going to say I called it because I didn't expect it to happen, but he's been the salient candidate for me all year. I know people are going to knock this award, and say it's just about people rewarding the guy in the role on the best team but I so disagree.

This is not a GM who did nothing, this is a GM (and exec team) who correctly diagnosed which change to make (coach) and which change not to make (ditch the superior fit for the superior talent). I was advocating they should trade for Love without hesitation. I was wrong.

By contrast, the #2 finisher was simply the guy who was there when LeBron decided to come back to Cleveland and it's silly to argue that his other moves are so brilliant that we'd be praising him if LeBron wasn't there. I agree with their move to get Love, and Mozgov's addition has been quite beneficial, but neither of those things were exactly shocking either in their benefit or in their availability (Cavs gave up a lot for those guys.)

[RSCD3_]

This is how I think the players will vote this year:
MVP - James Harden
Best Rookie - Andrew Wiggins
Man of the Year - Chris Paul or LeBron James
Best Defender - Deandre Jordan
Global Impact Player - Kobe Bryant or LeBron James
Hardest to Guard - Jamal Crawford
Clutch Performer - Kobe Bryant
Coach You Would Want to Play For - Doc Rivers
Best Home Court Advantage - GSW or Denver
Player You Wish Was on Your Team - Paul Pierce

Man of the eyar IMO will be like " who everybody is talking about" aka probably curry.

[Doctor MJ]

Conversation has died here. May be that this idea won't fly. Still I'm hoping people give updates on their thinking after the WCF is over.

My thought, btw, after too night: It's awful hard to take Bud as a serious COY candidate now. Not saying I don't think he's a good coach, but clearly Atlanta was nothing like a true contender. Maxing out fool's gold isn't nothing, but it's hard to imagine it's the most impressive coaching job in the league.

[bondom34]

Conversation has died here. May be that this idea won't fly. Still I'm hoping people give updates on their thinking after the WCF is over.

My thought, btw, after too night: It's awful hard to take Bud as a serious COY candidate now. Not saying I don't think he's a good coach, but clearly Atlanta was nothing like a true contender. Maxing out fool's gold isn't nothing, but it's hard to imagine it's the most impressive coaching job in the league.

Honestly, I think Blatt has the best case now. Given roster turnover, new faces, guys who've never won before, guys who've had attitude issues...yea I know "Lebron is doing it all" and everything, but Blatt is impressive.

[HeartBreakKid]

This strengthens Kidd's claim for COY for me. Don't see anyone else being a serious contender.

[bondom34]

Actually forgot Kidd, he had a case too, but I have to love what Blatt has done. Never thought JR Smith would be playing a key role on this team, and doing it well.

[Texas Chuck]

Conversation has died here. May be that this idea won't fly. Still I'm hoping people give updates on their thinking after the WCF is over.

My thought, btw, after too night: It's awful hard to take Bud as a serious COY candidate now. Not saying I don't think he's a good coach, but clearly Atlanta was nothing like a true contender. Maxing out fool's gold isn't nothing, but it's hard to imagine it's the most impressive coaching job in the league.

I'm not sure the COY should only go to someone coaching a "true contender" to begin with. Sometimes the best coaching job is done by someone without a championship level squad.

I also think its hard to find much to quibble with Bud. He maxed out the return of that roster in the RS and it wasn't a mirage as they more than held their own against the best teams in the WC. They advanced to the ECF where they suffered some significant losses: Carroll missed time and then clearly hasn't been right since giving them no one to really guard Lebron(apologies to Millsap and Bazemore for giving fine effort), they lose Korver, Horford gets tossed from a game that goes to OT etc... Obviously OTOH Cleveland suffered even bigger losses, but considering Atlanta was built on the ultimate in team basketball with that starting unit and Cleveland is built on the unique and superlative talents of the best player in the world it should be obvious that the losses would effect the Hawks more.

I certainly think he belongs in the mix. Steve Kerr might should be the favorite and frankly Kevin McHale has really impressed me with some of his decisions in the playoffs and to get that roster with all its injuries to the #2 seed in the West is pretty incredible.

I'd go:

1. Kerr
2. Bud
3. McHale
4. Kidd


with Bud edging out McHale because I believe the Hawks success was more about his system than the Rockets is about McHale's.

[Dr Spaceman]

Conversation has died here. May be that this idea won't fly. Still I'm hoping people give updates on their thinking after the WCF is over.

My thought, btw, after too night: It's awful hard to take Bud as a serious COY candidate now. Not saying I don't think he's a good coach, but clearly Atlanta was nothing like a true contender. Maxing out fool's gold isn't nothing, but it's hard to imagine it's the most impressive coaching job in the league.

I'm not sure the COY should only go to someone coaching a "true contender" to begin with. Sometimes the best coaching job is done by someone without a championship level squad.

I also think its hard to find much to quibble with Bud. He maxed out the return of that roster in the RS and it wasn't a mirage as they more than held their own against the best teams in the WC. They advanced to the ECF where they suffered some significant losses: Carroll missed time and then clearly hasn't been right since giving them no one to really guard Lebron(apologies to Millsap and Bazemore for giving fine effort), they lose Korver, Horford gets tossed from a game that goes to OT etc... Obviously OTOH Cleveland suffered even bigger losses, but considering Atlanta was built on the ultimate in team basketball with that starting unit and Cleveland is built on the unique and superlative talents of the best player in the world it should be obvious that the losses would effect the Hawks more.

I certainly think he belongs in the mix. Steve Kerr might should be the favorite and frankly Kevin McHale has really impressed me with some of his decisions in the playoffs and to get that roster with all its injuries to the #2 seed in the West is pretty incredible.

I'd go:

1. Kerr
2. Bud
3. McHale
4. Kidd


with Bud edging out McHale because I believe the Hawks success was more about his system than the Rockets is about McHale's.

Honestly can't take McHale seriously as a contender. There are plenty of things Iove about Houston, but nothing they do schematically is above and beyond what I'd expect from any above-average coach. McHale is very competent and a good game manager, and when teams like the Clippers display obvious glaring flaws like their fatigue and lack of depth he can go for the jugular. His lineups and rotations are a little bit from outer space, but they work well generally and he's absolutely struck gold with some combinations in the Clips and Dubs series. He's got some funky players on that roster, and he's prone to some creativity.

That said, his team has a ceiling they're definitely not reaching. I mean it's bizarre how the team doesn't even look like they give a **** until they are a game from elimination. They put up a good fight in the first two Warriors games, but then get annihilated at home. Then game 4 they click and blow out the best team in the NBA. And don't even get me started on the Clippers series. It's just a strange phenomenon, and they seem to have really serious motivation issues. The team obviously has a level they can reach that they are competitive with anyone, but they almost never reach that level, so I'm willing to give McHale props to some extent but I stop short of COY consideration until he can actually get that team whirring on a nightly basis.

I agree with you about Bud, I think "fool's gold" is too strong a term to use here. Their starting five was for the most part playing near RS levels, but when push came to shove their bench guys like DS, Antic, who were key contributors all season became massive liabilities and essentially unplayable. Even in the second round they were digging so far into their rotation, throwing out guys like Mike Muscala who I never even saw in the RS and resurrecting Mike Scott. Injuries hit them harder due to their lack of a star to provide a baseline, and so while their roster is a house of cards that shouldn't be pinned on Budz. I don't think many teams could survive starting Kent Bazemore in a Conference Finals, and honestly a healthy Hawks team at least gives Cleveland a competitive series.

[Texas Chuck]

Honestly can't take McHale seriously as a contender. There are plenty of things Iove about Houston, but nothing they do schematically is above and beyond what I'd expect from any above-average coach. McHale is very competent and a good game manager, and when teams like the Clippers display obvious glaring flaws like their fatigue and lack of depth he can go for the jugular. His lineups and rotations are a little bit from outer space, but they work well generally and he's absolutely struck gold with some combinations in the Clips and Dubs series. He's got some funky players on that roster, and he's prone to some creativity.

That said, his team has a ceiling they're definitely not reaching. I mean it's bizarre how the team doesn't even look like they give a **** until they are a game from elimination. They put up a good fight in the first two Warriors games, but then get annihilated at home. Then game 4 they click and blow out the best team in the NBA. And don't even get me started on the Clippers series. It's just a strange phenomenon, and they seem to have really serious motivation issues. The team obviously has a level they can reach that they are competitive with anyone, but they almost never reach that level, so I'm willing to give McHale props to some extent but I stop short of COY consideration until he can actually get that team whirring on a nightly basis.

Maybe I oversell McHale, but he's in teh WCF missing 2 starters and while Jones/Smith give him decent options at the 4, he's having to get by with Jason Terry and Prigs at PG.

And to get the 2nd best record in the West with his all-world center playing 1/2 the season and not up to par for most of what he did play. Lost his PG for over 25 games, Jones only played 33 games. He started Tarik Black and Joey Dorsey a combined 30 times. Clint Capela played 90 minutes in the RS yet has been in the PS rotation. He's just not working with much talent really at all.

And in round 1 I think he clearly outcoached Rick Carlisle who imo is the best in-game coach in the business. He was making Rick react to his moves and Rick was slow to catch on. His gameplan went right at Dallas' weaknesses and when Rick adjusted to one thing, McHale was ahead of him with the next counter.

And I'm not at all sold that the Rockets are struggling with motivation. They just have a bunch of really inconsistent players beyond Harden/Howard. I mean Josh Smith, Corey Brewer, and Trevor Ariza are the poster childs of wildly inconsistent performances. Then he has really young guys or really old guys. Houston simply isn't as talented as the Clippers or the Warriors nor as consistent. Not much McHale can do about that now as he has to go with what he's got.

[Doctor MJ]

Conversation has died here. May be that this idea won't fly. Still I'm hoping people give updates on their thinking after the WCF is over.

My thought, btw, after too night: It's awful hard to take Bud as a serious COY candidate now. Not saying I don't think he's a good coach, but clearly Atlanta was nothing like a true contender. Maxing out fool's gold isn't nothing, but it's hard to imagine it's the most impressive coaching job in the league.

I'm not sure the COY should only go to someone coaching a "true contender" to begin with. Sometimes the best coaching job is done by someone without a championship level squad.

I also think its hard to find much to quibble with Bud. He maxed out the return of that roster in the RS and it wasn't a mirage as they more than held their own against the best teams in the WC. They advanced to the ECF where they suffered some significant losses: Carroll missed time and then clearly hasn't been right since giving them no one to really guard Lebron(apologies to Millsap and Bazemore for giving fine effort), they lose Korver, Horford gets tossed from a game that goes to OT etc... Obviously OTOH Cleveland suffered even bigger losses, but considering Atlanta was built on the ultimate in team basketball with that starting unit and Cleveland is built on the unique and superlative talents of the best player in the world it should be obvious that the losses would effect the Hawks more.

I certainly think he belongs in the mix. Steve Kerr might should be the favorite and frankly Kevin McHale has really impressed me with some of his decisions in the playoffs and to get that roster with all its injuries to the #2 seed in the West is pretty incredible.

I'd go:

1. Kerr
2. Bud
3. McHale
4. Kidd


with Bud edging out McHale because I believe the Hawks success was more about his system than the Rockets is about McHale's.

While I understand the idea that a guy could do the most impressive coaching job without making a contender, Bud won COY because the perception was that he made the Hawks elite. My concerns at the time were that they weren't. Their W-L record said they were, but the SRS was much less impressive. And of course now that SRS very much seems to overstate how good they are when teams actually need to beat them.

I struggle giving Kidd too much credit more because the team has only reached mediocrity, not even "goodness", but they made a much bigger leap forward this year than the Hawks, and the Hawks at this stage don't seem that much better. I could easily see giving Kidd the nod over Bud.

I'll also say: At this point I expect Atlanta to fall off the map next year. They won't be horrendous of course, but the wave of positive energy that drove them toward that amazing hot streak is gone and then some. The Hawk team will go in next year knowing not simply that they didn't live up to the hype this year, but also knowing that whenever they appear to be a contender it's fool's gold and won't last.

That might seem like hyperbolic doom & gloom, but I just don't think a team like the Hawks wins anywhere near 60 games if they aren't super-positive about everything, and how can they be when they saw what their positivity amounted to when it really mattered?

I know that Bud knows his stuff, but the way all this ended this doesn't feel anything like the aftermath of Thibs' breakthrough in Chicago where the team kept scrapping for years afterward. The Hawks team gave up against a broken Cavs team in what was surely there best chance to accomplish anything. What comes next will almost certainly be a step backward. And while one might argue that that is irrelevant to this year, the whole reason I'm bringing it up is based on what I see of the team as we speak. The quite we saw in them THIS year.

[bondom34]

Just gonna toss this out there, and its not a popular opinion at this point, but I feel like the playoffs have been proof that even with "team ball" taking over the league, in the end you need studs to win it all. GSW plays team ball to an extent, but they have the studs to back it up. The Spurs do too, but at this point they don't quite have the one guy to just give the ball and say "win it", same with the Hawks. I think the playoffs are showing you need that as much as team play.

[PaulieWal]

Just gonna toss this out there, and its not a popular opinion at this point, but I feel like the playoffs have been proof that even with "team ball" taking over the league, in the end you need studs to win it all. GSW plays team ball to an extent, but they have the studs to back it up. The Spurs do too, but at this point they don't quite have the one guy to just give the ball and say "win it", same with the Hawks. I think the playoffs are showing you need that as much as team play.

I don't see how that's an unpopular opinion. I think the whole "team ball" stuff was oversold to begin with. What I mean is that for the most part championship teams and the real elite teams have always played "team ball". That's why I never understood the whole narrative of the league is finally moving towards team ball. After the Spurs won last year with their ensemble cast the narrative somehow changed to that they were the ones ushering in some new concept of team ball when the only thing really different about them was that they did it without one dominant superstar but a very balanced team.

Hawks were always going to struggle in the playoffs if their team wasn't a 100%. I give a lot of credit to the Cavs/LeBron for winning without Irving/Love but they still have that one superstar that they can all defer to and play around. With the Hawks all of their pieces have to be at 100% and playing optimally for them to beat the teams with superstars and for all the comparisons with the Spurs, Horford just is NOT Duncan. Duncan isn't a dominant superstar but he's still that star which the team can play around and if not for CP going HAM in game 7 we very likely see Spurs in the WCF right now.

[sp6r=underrated]

Steve Kerr is a pretty obvious coach of the year. Coaching teams to this high level of play is extraordinarily difficult because it requires getting massive sacrifices from multiple talented players. Strangely, when it occurs the coach usually gets underrated because people just look at the talent and assume any decent coach could have gotten them close to that level of play. In reality, your odds of a championship dramatically increase when you enter the rarified zone these Warriors are in.

________________________________________________

This year there were only four true contenders for the title due to OKC injuries: GSW, CLE, SAS and LAC. Golden State and Cleveland are still standing. I suspect the Warriors will give a fairly large beat down to Cleveland with the series ending in 5 due to Lebron stealing a game.

SAS lost a coin toss series to Los Angeles. Clippers were injured, without home-court and still outplayed Houston by a large margin over that 7 game series based on point differential.

Atlanta really only played like a contender for a 20 game stretch. Their bad luck was that it occurred in January and not the PS. Next year Atlanta could get to the finals if they make some modest roster improvements and Love leaves for the West Coast.

Next year the top 4 in the West will be maybe the best top 4 in NBA history: GSW, OKC, SAS and LAC. That is a murderers' row.

[Doctor MJ]

Steve Kerr is a pretty obvious coach of the year. Coaching teams to this high level of play is extraordinarily difficult because it requires getting massive sacrifices from multiple talented players. Strangely, when it occurs the coach usually gets underrated because people just look at the talent and assume any decent coach could have gotten them close to that level of play. In reality, your odds of a championship dramatically increase when you enter the rarified zone these Warriors are in.

________________________________________________

This year there were only four true contenders for the title due to OKC injuries: GSW, CLE, SAS and LAC. Golden State and Cleveland are still standing. I suspect the Warriors will give a fairly large beat down to Cleveland with the series ending in 5 due to Lebron stealing a game.

SAS lost a coin toss series to Los Angeles. Clippers were injured, without home-court and still outplayed Houston by a large margin over that 7 game series based on point differential.

Atlanta really only played like a contender for a 20 game stretch. Their bad luck was that it occurred in January and not the PS. Next year Atlanta could get to the finals if they make some modest roster improvements and Love leaves for the West Coast.

Next year the top 4 in the West will be maybe the best top 4 in NBA history: GSW, OKC, SAS and LAC. That is a murderers' row.

I'd say, like with so many other things, the finals are a big deal.

The Cavs can keep this up against the Warriors, then Blatt has an awesome case.
If the Warriors expose the Cavs, then Kerr basically has to get the award.

As is I'm leaning toward Kerr to this point. Early in the year I was a Bud guy, but by the end of the RS, I saw it as a toss up between Bud and Kerr. While there's no doubt that Kerr doesn't have this success without other people, as a rule I never take extreme success for granted, and I have to admit to being enthralled with the stuff I've heard about Kerr's level of preparation and human instincts.

[Doctor MJ]

Just gonna toss this out there, and its not a popular opinion at this point, but I feel like the playoffs have been proof that even with "team ball" taking over the league, in the end you need studs to win it all. GSW plays team ball to an extent, but they have the studs to back it up. The Spurs do too, but at this point they don't quite have the one guy to just give the ball and say "win it", same with the Hawks. I think the playoffs are showing you need that as much as team play.

I think this year has helped us better understand what the new balance is. With the way the Spurs won last year, I had a real thought that we might see a new era where superstars were far less important than they were before. Had the Hawks won it all, that would be cemented.

Mind you, I never thought the Hawks would win, but since I never predicted they'd win 60 games either, I wasn't going to say anything was impossible.

I also think though that there still is some shift in the balance toward the coach's side, and that the superstars who shine the brightest now have shifted a bit. I think Curry may well be the flag-bearer for it: A guy with an ultra-outlier ability that can be used as rapidly as a gamer launches an attack with his keyboard. That specific combination, that particular reliance on a superstar, might actually be the key to generating "team ball" - a flowing offense that let's everyone get involved - against the toughest of defenses.