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[RunDogGun]

Call me crazy but I still like the Cavs.

I don't really like the Cavs, nut I really don't like all the fouling that GS does, and people call it good defense.

The only solace I have in this chip is it isn't the Lakers or the Spurs.

But man GS is like the antiSuns, huh? They are allowed to foul whoever they went, whenever they want, and instead of their point guard going down, every team they've faced has been sans starting point guard for at least one game, and then battling injuries the rest. Luck and ref help is something the Suns never had, except maybe a few games over the last thirty years.

Although I will say that GS has good shooters, and move the ball very well.

Cavs will need huge games from Smith (I really dislike him), and Della to beat GS.

[letsgosuns]

The Suns may have had some bad luck with injuries and tough calls but the Warriors are doing something the Suns never did. The Warriors are the top defensive team in the league. Even Gentry said as much just recently about why the Warriors are in the finals and the Suns never were. I have said a million times. Being a bad defensive team is what kept the Suns from winning a title. Even with a great offense, you will never win a title unless you are at least a good defensive team. The Suns never ranked better than 13th in defensive rating during the Nash years.

Another perfect example is the 1992-93 team. That team ranked 9th in defense and went to the finals. The 1994 team ranked 16th and the 1995 team ranked 19th. Not a coincidence that both of those teams blew series leads to the Rockets and lost in the second round. First year with Barkley the Suns are a top ten defense and reach the finals. Next two years they are in the bottom half of the league in defense and do not make it past the second round. Injuries or not, defense wins championships.

[RunDogGun]

Again, getting away with reaches, pushes, and fouls isn't good defense. Any team can do that. Bowen made a living off full on grabbing guys, and people called it good defense. Add in all their moving screens, and many guys on the GS would have to sit. Im not saying they are bad defensively, for they move well, and recover, but on literally every defensive set, a call could be made that change the play greatly.

Suns had very good defensive players, but if they didn't fit in Mike's offense, they didn't get huge minutes.

[LukasBMW]

Lebron is one of the greatest of all time. He'd probably be THE GREATEST...if he had half the heart Jordan did.

No way Jordan doesn't win game 1. He would have won it at regulation ...or at least by dominating overtime.

Lebron may be physically superior to Jordan, but he doesn't have the Jordan desire and killer instinct. Jordan was cold blooded.

Without Love and now Irving, the Cavs are screwed. The splash brother are going to destroy the Clevland back court.

It won't even be close. Warriors in 4 or 5.

[Puff]

Again, getting away with reaches, pushes, and fouls isn't good defense. Any team can do that. Bowen made a living off full on grabbing guys, and people called it good defense. Add in all their moving screens, and many guys on the GS would have to sit. Im not saying they are bad defensively, for they move well, and recover, but on literally every defensive set, a call could be made that change the play greatly.

Suns had very good defensive players, but if they didn't fit in Mike's offense, they didn't get huge minutes.

Who were these "Very Good" defensive players that Mike didn't play?

Name names, please

[bwgood77]

The Suns may have had some bad luck with injuries and tough calls but the Warriors are doing something the Suns never did. The Warriors are the top defensive team in the league. Even Gentry said as much just recently about why the Warriors are in the finals and the Suns never were. I have said a million times. Being a bad defensive team is what kept the Suns from winning a title. Even with a great offense, you will never win a title unless you are at least a good defensive team. The Suns never ranked better than 13th in defensive rating during the Nash years.

Another perfect example is the 1992-93 team. That team ranked 9th in defense and went to the finals. The 1994 team ranked 16th and the 1995 team ranked 19th. Not a coincidence that both of those teams blew series leads to the Rockets and lost in the second round. First year with Barkley the Suns are a top ten defense and reach the finals. Next two years they are in the bottom half of the league in defense and do not make it past the second round. Injuries or not, defense wins championships.

It also depends on how tough your conference is. In 94, 95, 05 and 07 they were still arguably the 2nd best team in the league, so being a top 2 team and not getting to the finals is just a result of the top two teams being in the same conference.

[RunDogGun]

Again, getting away with reaches, pushes, and fouls isn't good defense. Any team can do that. Bowen made a living off full on grabbing guys, and people called it good defense. Add in all their moving screens, and many guys on the GS would have to sit. Im not saying they are bad defensively, for they move well, and recover, but on literally every defensive set, a call could be made that change the play greatly.

Suns had very good defensive players, but if they didn't fit in Mike's offense, they didn't get huge minutes.

Who were these "Very Good" defensive players that Mike didn't play?

Name names, please

Where in my sentence did I say Mike didn't play them? I said, and you quoted me, that some didn't get huge minutes. One example was KT not starting against the Spurs. Mike chose to start James Jones instead of KT, when KT was our best defender against Duncan. KT played 13 minutes that first game. KT often was overlooked.

Banks was a good defender, but rarely saw the floor.

Oh well, I don't feel like getting in a debate over the past and people's opinions of those past events. My main point was we have had good defenders.

[letsgosuns]

Here are quotes from Alvin Gentry, David Griffin, and Raja Bell from an article posted today on ESPN by J.A. Adande. What more validation do you need? This is exactly what I have been saying for many years.

Gentry:
"One thing about our teams in Phoenix is we were never really high defensively, and I think that was kind of our downfall," Gentry said. "We never really got to that point where -- not being the best defensive team like we were here, we needed to be in the top 15, and we weren't. We were like in the bottom five. And I think that cost us down the stretch."

Griffin:
"I don't think the style itself could never win," Griffin said. "I certainly don't think our Suns teams not winning it were a statement that you couldn't win playing that way. They were a statement that you couldn't win playing that way at the cost of defense. "It was the mindset. It wasn't something that was focal for us. What we wanted to do was to run your legs out from under you, and that was going to be the way we got key stops. It certainly worked. We had great success. But we weren't able to really pair a defensive scheme and a tempo. It just wasn't something that was emphasized at the time."

Bell:
"A team like Golden State, they're No. 1 in the league defensively, with an explosive offense like that," Bell said. "That's why they won so many games. That's what we were lacking [in Phoenix.]"

There it is. Straight from the people that were directly involved in the seven seconds or less era stating that the reason the Suns never won the title was because they were not good enough defensively. http://espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/2015/st ... nba-finals

[bwgood77]

Again, getting away with reaches, pushes, and fouls isn't good defense. Any team can do that. Bowen made a living off full on grabbing guys, and people called it good defense. Add in all their moving screens, and many guys on the GS would have to sit. Im not saying they are bad defensively, for they move well, and recover, but on literally every defensive set, a call could be made that change the play greatly.

Suns had very good defensive players, but if they didn't fit in Mike's offense, they didn't get huge minutes.

Who were these "Very Good" defensive players that Mike didn't play?

Name names, please

Where in my sentence did I say Mike didn't play them? I said, and you quoted me, that some didn't get huge minutes. One example was KT not starting against the Spurs. Mike chose to start James Jones instead of KT, when KT was our best defender against Duncan. KT played 13 minutes that first game. KT often was overlooked.

Banks was a good defender, but rarely saw the floor.

Oh well, I don't feel like getting in a debate over the past and people's opinions of those past events. My main point was we have had good defenders.

Yeah, I was thinking of Kurt Thomas when I read your post earlier. Another issue was good or decent defensive players getting injured in the playoffs at bad times, like Raja Bell. Joe Johnson wasn't a bad defender, and he was out most of one WCF as well.

I don't think the real reason we didn't win it in 2007 is because of our defense. Sure it would have helped, but many other factors were obviously in play there.

[bwgood77]

Here are quotes from Alvin Gentry, David Griffin, and Raja Bell from an article posted today on ESPN by J.A. Adande. What more validation do you need? This is exactly what I have been saying for many years.

Gentry:
"One thing about our teams in Phoenix is we were never really high defensively, and I think that was kind of our downfall," Gentry said. "We never really got to that point where -- not being the best defensive team like we were here, we needed to be in the top 15, and we weren't. We were like in the bottom five. And I think that cost us down the stretch."

Griffin:
"I don't think the style itself could never win," Griffin said. "I certainly don't think our Suns teams not winning it were a statement that you couldn't win playing that way. They were a statement that you couldn't win playing that way at the cost of defense. "It was the mindset. It wasn't something that was focal for us. What we wanted to do was to run your legs out from under you, and that was going to be the way we got key stops. It certainly worked. We had great success. But we weren't able to really pair a defensive scheme and a tempo. It just wasn't something that was emphasized at the time."

Bell:
"A team like Golden State, they're No. 1 in the league defensively, with an explosive offense like that," Bell said. "That's why they won so many games. That's what we were lacking [in Phoenix.]"

There it is. Straight from the people that were directly involved in the seven seconds or less era stating that the reason the Suns never won the title was because they were not good enough defensively. http://espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/2015/st ... nba-finals

I think we all know having the #1 defense makes things considerably better.

I think part of the reason also that we never won one is because we kept moving parts around too much, and then made stupid moves starting in 2008. Continuity is key in being a great team, unless you suddenly add 2 stars to make a big 3 or add Gasol to Kobe.

[DRK]

Again, getting away with reaches, pushes, and fouls isn't good defense. Any team can do that. Bowen made a living off full on grabbing guys, and people called it good defense. Add in all their moving screens, and many guys on the GS would have to sit. Im not saying they are bad defensively, for they move well, and recover, but on literally every defensive set, a call could be made that change the play greatly.

Suns had very good defensive players, but if they didn't fit in Mike's offense, they didn't get huge minutes.

Who were these "Very Good" defensive players that Mike didn't play?

Name names, please

Where in my sentence did I say Mike didn't play them? I said, and you quoted me, that some didn't get huge minutes. One example was KT not starting against the Spurs. Mike chose to start James Jones instead of KT, when KT was our best defender against Duncan. KT played 13 minutes that first game. KT often was overlooked.

Banks was a good defender, but rarely saw the floor.

Oh well, I don't feel like getting in a debate over the past and people's opinions of those past events. My main point was we have had good defenders.

The good outweighed the bad though. Are you really using an argument against Mike D for the fact that Marcus Banks didnt get much court time? He was backing up a 2 time MVP remember? '

[RunDogGun]

Who were these "Very Good" defensive players that Mike didn't play?

Name names, please

Where in my sentence did I say Mike didn't play them? I said, and you quoted me, that some didn't get huge minutes. One example was KT not starting against the Spurs. Mike chose to start James Jones instead of KT, when KT was our best defender against Duncan. KT played 13 minutes that first game. KT often was overlooked.

Banks was a good defender, but rarely saw the floor.

Oh well, I don't feel like getting in a debate over the past and people's opinions of those past events. My main point was we have had good defenders.

The good outweighed the bad though. Are you really using an argument against Mike D for the fact that Marcus Banks didnt get much court time? He was backing up a 2 time MVP remember? '

I wasn't really making an argument about Mike per say. But in the suspension game, it would have been better to try Banks on Parker instead of moving Marion on Parker. In that game, Marion was pretty much our whole offense, later in that game, Mike moved Marion on Parker, and it completely gassed Marion. My main gripe with Mike and Banks, was the fact that Mike signed Banks, as GM, and rarely played him as coach.

Oh well, again, I don't really want to get into who's opinion is better. The point I am still trying to say is we had good defenders on the Suns. If we are talking about Mike's time, those players also had to fit his offense, or they didn't see big (originally I used huge) minutes.

[Cutter]

I'm watching game 2 of the finals.

JR Smith is a complete moron.

[bwgood77]

I find myself actually pulling for the Cavs to win this one just because now it would be unbelievable if he could carry them to win it all without Irving OR Love.

Plus it would be a better series. I hate when two games go into OT and the same teams wins both times.

[kennydorglas]

Oh boy, if GS loses to this team, they deserve to be mocked for all eternity.

ps: apparently now the 'mainstream' knows how the GS defense 'works'
maybe they'll catch up on bogut's blatant screens in game 5

[RaisingArizona]

Cavs got this now.

[thamadkant]

Marion and Bell were the only 2 above average defenders on the Suns.

Warriors have Thompson, Iguadala, Bogut, Green, Barnes...


Suns have the better inside scorer in Stoudemire, but he was similar to David Lee defensively... Lee being the better rebounder.
Nash is the better playmaker than Curry, but Curry's efficiency is same as Nash as a shooter... Except Curry is about 2-3 times the volume the shots Nash takes. Curry's range is uncanny.

Nuff said.

[DRK]

Say what you want about Blatt, the man can coach one HELL of a defence. I watched the game, and the Cavs' defence was extremely disciplined. Awesome to watch.

[Frank Lee]

This is becoming a battle of styles/philosophies as well. GS lets this one slip away, it will be a coffin nail for jump shooting teams. They sure get away with a lot on D (and O) BTW. There RDog.... that was for you.


Our Nash teams always play to their strengths, which was Nash. I like what Griffin said.... run the legs out from under the other team. It was the most enjoyable 5 yrs of basketball I have witnessed. No Ring will always be the rebuttal, but in my mind the Black Hand of F-n Fate took away least 2 opportunities to be in the finals. We got Fannucci-ed.

[lilfishi22]

I might get my $60 after all. Although I wouldn't feel good about it