RealGM 2015 Fan Forum Mock Draft - IND #11

[Scoot McGroot]

I don't know. Maybe a nicer David West, with longer range?

Kaminsky? I highly doubt it. West was a double double guy from the start of his college career throughout all 4 years and was leaps and bounds ahead of Kaminsky in defensive stats. He also got to the line at a much higher rate. West clearly had some skills that would translate. Kaminsky really doesn't. We've seen how shooting doesn't always translate when going up against much tougher opponents and there's already questions about his release time being effective.

Maybe. But on a per 40 basis, their senior years are pretty much spot on. And Kaminsky did it against FAR tougher competition. The A-10 back then was West's Xavier, Jameer Nelson/Delonte West's Saint Joe's, and Dayton. The rest of the conference was pretty down.

Oh, and by nicer, I meant, personality wise. West could chew your head off at any moment. Frank seems like more of a teddy bear.

But ultimately, Frank rebounds his position well above average. He held himself against the best basketball talents in the NCAA. He shot EXTREMELY well, and also acquitted himself as a pretty decent passer, too. He's definitely more than a one trick pony, and definitely not just a tough-nosed hustle player (Hansbrough).

[Wizop]

but like Hansbrough after all his fakes Kaminsky winds up shooting with his right hand. he has three point range though and is much taller. I think he'll be better than the Zellers and the Plumlees and I'd be happy to have him even though I wish he had a left hand.

[basketballwacko2]

But, 24 hours only for a poll won't get you a ton of reaction here. We have busy days, and slow days. This week is looking like slow days. You really might get less than 5 votes; hardly a consensus.

I didn't get to vote but I'd put my money on Lyles. Or a trade down. I saw a deal on the trade board from an OKC poster offering #14, Lamb and PJ for #11, there was even an offer of that plus Waiters but I don't think I want Waiters. Drafting at 14 I'm guessing either Turner or Portis.

[Nuntius]

Guys like Mcdermott, Hansbrough, Morrison, etc. all produced against the best in the country but couldn't do it in the pros. I hate the great white college player comparison, but those guys are similar to Kaminsky in a lot of ways unfortunately.

Kaminsky is nothing like Hans. Hans scored by outhustling and overpowering his opponents. Frank didn't score that way. His 3-point shot is translateable and he projects as a good defensive rebounder (he knows how to block out).

[pacers33granger]

Guys like Mcdermott, Hansbrough, Morrison, etc. all produced against the best in the country but couldn't do it in the pros. I hate the great white college player comparison, but those guys are similar to Kaminsky in a lot of ways unfortunately.

Kaminsky is nothing like Hans. Hans scored by outhustling and overpowering his opponents. Frank didn't score that way. His 3-point shot is translateable and he projects as a good defensive rebounder (he knows how to block out).

Hansbrough knew how to block out. Rebounding is one of the few things he does better than average in the NBA. His worst rebounding season in college was 7.8 as a freshman and Frank's best was 8.2 last year as a senior. And Frank's got 3 inches on Hansbrough.

I agree that Hansbrough's offense just didn't translate because he outhustled opponents, but we've seen plenty of shooters' games not translate. And Frank weighs 7 pounds less than Hansbrough. While I'm sure he can put on some muscle, I see him getting outmuscled by a lot of guys in the league. As a PF either he won't be able to handle the full PFs like Tristan Thompson, or he will get burned on defense by the smaller guys like Jeff Green.

And his 3 pt shot isn't 100% translatable. His shot is slow and he needs space to really get it off. At best I see a prime Ilyasova. A decent player, but a bench big and not someone you take in the lotto.

[Scoot McGroot]

Guys like Mcdermott, Hansbrough, Morrison, etc. all produced against the best in the country but couldn't do it in the pros. I hate the great white college player comparison, but those guys are similar to Kaminsky in a lot of ways unfortunately.

Kaminsky is nothing like Hans. Hans scored by outhustling and overpowering his opponents. Frank didn't score that way. His 3-point shot is translateable and he projects as a good defensive rebounder (he knows how to block out).

Hansbrough knew how to block out. Rebounding is one of the few things he does better than average in the NBA. His worst rebounding season in college was 7.8 as a freshman and Frank's best was 8.2 last year as a senior. And Frank's got 3 inches on Hansbrough.

I agree that Hansbrough's offense just didn't translate because he outhustled opponents, but we've seen plenty of shooters' games not translate. And Frank weighs 7 pounds less than Hansbrough. While I'm sure he can put on some muscle, I see him getting outmuscled by a lot of guys in the league. As a PF either he won't be able to handle the full PFs like Tristan Thompson, or he will get burned on defense by the smaller guys like Jeff Green.

And his 3 pt shot isn't 100% translatable. His shot is slow and he needs space to really get it off. At best I see a prime Ilyasova. A decent player, but a bench big and not someone you take in the lotto.

A prime Ilyasova was a solid starter. If you told me you projected Kaminsky to be a stretch 4 that pulled down 13/9/1/1/1 on 49/46/80% shooting in only around 27 minutes a night while only taking about 10 field goal attempts a night, I'd take that in a second.

Heck, if Ilyasova were healthy, I'd take him right now. I'd love him in a Hibbert deal as salary filler. Heck, if we really want to play more uptempo and mobile, I'd do most any Ilyasova/filler for Hibbert deal right now. Ilyasova/Dudley/Plumlee for Hibbert? That'd allow us to play uptempo this year, and to keep George at the 3 more.

[pacers33granger]

And his 3 pt shot isn't 100% translatable. His shot is slow and he needs space to really get it off. At best I see a prime Ilyasova. A decent player, but a bench big and not someone you take in the lotto.

A prime Ilyasova was a solid starter. If you told me you projected Kaminsky to be a stretch 4 that pulled down 13/9/1/1/1 on 49/46/80% shooting in only around 27 minutes a night while only taking about 10 field goal attempts a night, I'd take that in a second.

Heck, if Ilyasova were healthy, I'd take him right now. I'd love him in a Hibbert deal as salary filler. Heck, if we really want to play more uptempo and mobile, I'd do most any Ilyasova/filler for Hibbert deal right now. Ilyasova/Dudley/Plumlee for Hibbert? That'd allow us to play uptempo this year, and to keep George at the 3 more.[/quote]

That'd be fine if it was a guarantee he'd reach that ceiling, but it's not. He could just as easily be a fringe rotation player. And even a prime Ilyasova was generally a minus on defense.

Overall, I think one of the main appeals with Frank is that he could be an instant contributor (which I don't agree with, but understand). If the plan is to resign Scola, and it seems to be, then if we draft a PF we won't have many minutes available. We won't need instant contribution from the PF spot. I just think it's a bad place to take a "safe" pick when there's going to be several options available with at least fringe All-Star potential. And I like our chances of picking the right potential guy and developing him properly. We've done well with almost all of our young guys in recent memory except Shawne Williams.

I'm also just generally weary of guys who come on late in their college careers and surge up draft boards. Sure part of that is minutes and improving is part of the equation to being successful in the NBA, but scouts will usually see some things early on if there's NBA skills there. And lastly, while stretch bigs are at a premium now, they're quickly starting to become not that hard to find anymore with the way the game is played.

[Scoot McGroot]

I think Scola's future here depends upon both our direction of draft pick, and whether or not West opts in to his deal. To me, when Bird was saying last year that we need to get younger, it seemed he was speaking on the front line most of all.

[8305]

If the Pacers think Kaminsky is the best guy at 11, I hope they at least inquire into trading the pick to for Cody Zeller. Long term I think Zeller will be a better player than Kaminsky. Can't imagine that he wouldn't provide a better immediate contribution.

[Nuntius]

Guys like Mcdermott, Hansbrough, Morrison, etc. all produced against the best in the country but couldn't do it in the pros. I hate the great white college player comparison, but those guys are similar to Kaminsky in a lot of ways unfortunately.

Kaminsky is nothing like Hans. Hans scored by outhustling and overpowering his opponents. Frank didn't score that way. His 3-point shot is translateable and he projects as a good defensive rebounder (he knows how to block out).

Hansbrough knew how to block out. Rebounding is one of the few things he does better than average in the NBA. His worst rebounding season in college was 7.8 as a freshman and Frank's best was 8.2 last year as a senior. And Frank's got 3 inches on Hansbrough.

I agree that Hansbrough's offense just didn't translate because he outhustled opponents, but we've seen plenty of shooters' games not translate. And Frank weighs 7 pounds less than Hansbrough. While I'm sure he can put on some muscle, I see him getting outmuscled by a lot of guys in the league. As a PF either he won't be able to handle the full PFs like Tristan Thompson, or he will get burned on defense by the smaller guys like Jeff Green.

And his 3 pt shot isn't 100% translatable. His shot is slow and he needs space to really get it off. At best I see a prime Ilyasova. A decent player, but a bench big and not someone you take in the lotto.

I agree that Hansbrough knew how to block out. If my post implied otherwise then I'm sorry.

Kaminsky is more than a shooter to me. He is good in the post and he is a great passer as well. I see him as a quality offensive player at the NBA level.

[pacers33granger]

Kaminsky is nothing like Hans. Hans scored by outhustling and overpowering his opponents. Frank didn't score that way. His 3-point shot is translateable and he projects as a good defensive rebounder (he knows how to block out).

Hansbrough knew how to block out. Rebounding is one of the few things he does better than average in the NBA. His worst rebounding season in college was 7.8 as a freshman and Frank's best was 8.2 last year as a senior. And Frank's got 3 inches on Hansbrough.

I agree that Hansbrough's offense just didn't translate because he outhustled opponents, but we've seen plenty of shooters' games not translate. And Frank weighs 7 pounds less than Hansbrough. While I'm sure he can put on some muscle, I see him getting outmuscled by a lot of guys in the league. As a PF either he won't be able to handle the full PFs like Tristan Thompson, or he will get burned on defense by the smaller guys like Jeff Green.

And his 3 pt shot isn't 100% translatable. His shot is slow and he needs space to really get it off. At best I see a prime Ilyasova. A decent player, but a bench big and not someone you take in the lotto.

I agree that Hansbrough knew how to block out. If my post implied otherwise then I'm sorry.

Kaminsky is more than a shooter to me. He is good in the post and he is a great passer as well. I see him as a quality offensive player at the NBA level.

No worries. I agree that Kaminsky will likely be a quality offensive player (though as I said, I'm not 100% on all of his skills translating), but I'm just not sold on him being able to defend at that level. That was one of the issues with Hansbrough. He was relatively smart (not all the time) and hustled his ass off, but constantly got beat by guys who were just more athletic.

And with Bird's track record in the draft, I'm more than comfortable with him taking the young guy he believes can best reach his potential and there will be several of them there for us. Now if we're trading down a bit to pick up another late first, that's a different story.

[Moooose]

I'd go Payne and trade him for a big man and a lower pick.

[celtspacers]

None of the above. This may be the Pacers best chance to get another star player. They need to trade up to 5 or 6 and get the only player in this draft that will be a star. The Pacers always hold on to players to long. West is done trade him for anything you can get while he still has value to other teams. George Hill has some value now get rid of him while he has value. Pacers front office are idiots when it comes to drafting players. You always know they they will pick the wrong player.

[Scoot McGroot]

None of the above. This may be the Pacers best chance to get another star player. They need to trade up to 5 or 6 and get the only player in this draft that will be a star. The Pacers always hold on to players to long. West is done trade him for anything you can get while he still has value to other teams. George Hill has some value now get rid of him while he has value. Pacers front office are idiots when it comes to drafting players. You always know they they will pick the wrong player.

Well, two things.

1) Trading up to 5 or 6 sounds great, in theory! Though, in this draft, for a "star" player, you likely have to get up to top 4. Now....how do we do it? You can trade everyone on the roster (except for Paul George) and we still don't get to top 4 pick land. So...now what?

2) I do always know they will pick the wrong players. That Paul George, Lance Stephenson, Danny Granger, Roy Hibbert....those guys are bums. Glad we ran two out of town. Need to run the 3rd.


Celts, you're a few and far between Pacer poster, and we don't know you super well. Maybe tell us a little bit more about you're ideal building of a roster, you're favorite players, etc, so we can better understand what background you're coming from. Otherwise, it comes across as a bit of trolling, with little basis in truth or reality.

[celtspacers]

Go back and read some of the things i have said when i do post. I have told everyone years ago trade Hibbert before he has no value. Trade David West while he has value. Both are frauds. Now the pacers are stuck with them and they're over paid contracts. George Hill is the next player they will be stuck with. when his contract is up he will be wanting max money. Bird and or Walsh will be dumb enough to give it too him.

[Wizop]

David West has been the emotional leader of our team. that's not a fraud. we wouldn't have been in the Eastern Conference finals without him.

compare our records last year with and without George Hill. he earned every penny we paid him and more.

I think you are playing fantasy basketball where only statistics matter.

I'm not sure when it would have made sense to trade Hibbert. we had Miami on the ropes in an ECF one year until Granger was injured. Miami had no answer for Roy that year. and then Roy got into his own head the next year after the all star game. I sure didn't predict a need to trade him before that year's deadline. if you did, you deserve full mark. once the slide began though, it was probably too late to move him. at this point, I think the best case scenario is for him to get his head back on straight. I grant that there will be a lot of people saying I told you so if he cannot.

[Scoot McGroot]

Go back and read some of the things i have said when i do post. I have told everyone years ago trade Hibbert before he has no value. Trade David West while he has value. Both are frauds. Now the pacers are stuck with them and they're over paid contracts. George Hill is the next player they will be stuck with. when his contract is up he will be wanting max money. Bird and or Walsh will be dumb enough to give it too him.

Suggest some realistic trades. Tell us where to go. It's very easy to say "deal Hibbert for a superstar", but....how do you get there in a real world? Even when Hibbert was at his HIGHEST trade value, was it ever possible? I think you'll find the answer is, no.

[Scoot McGroot]

Go back and read some of the things i have said when i do post.

Ok. You pretty much want Rondo. And you source Bleacher Report as an "inside the front office" source.

[celtspacers]

I never said you could trade Hibbert for a star. i said they should have traded him when he had value. Pacers will be lucky to find someone to trade for him.

[celtspacers]

Still have the inside office source.