Geometry: The Frank Kaminsky Thread

Post #621 » by **floppymoose** » Mon Jun 29, 2015 1:44 am

Geez, I hope he's another Olynk. Olynk is decent.

catch20two · Post #622 » by **catch20two** » Mon Jun 29, 2015 1:58 am

BlackOutBuzz wrote:This year 4 of the top 6 picks - and 7 of the first 12 - were PF/Cs, not to mention a wing who excelled at the 4 in college. Quality bigs are still a valuable commodity.

Is the wing that excelled at the 4 in college Justise Winslow? Because that's who came to mind.

Liver_Pooty · Post #623 » by **Liver_Pooty** » Mon Jun 29, 2015 2:06 am

catch20two wrote:
BlackOutBuzz wrote:This year 4 of the top 6 picks - and 7 of the first 12 - were PF/Cs, not to mention a wing who excelled at the 4 in college. Quality bigs are still a valuable commodity.

Is the wing that excelled at the 4 in college Justise Winslow? Because that's who came to mind.

Towns did pretty well playing beside Stein.

catch20two · Post #624 » by **catch20two** » Mon Jun 29, 2015 2:11 am

Liver_Pooty wrote:
catch20two wrote:
BlackOutBuzz wrote:This year 4 of the top 6 picks - and 7 of the first 12 - were PF/Cs, not to mention a wing who excelled at the 4 in college. Quality bigs are still a valuable commodity.

Is the wing that excelled at the 4 in college Justise Winslow? Because that's who came to mind.

Towns did pretty well playing beside Stein.

Huh? I know Towns proved to be a better draft prospect than Okafor and I shoulda betted but what are you talking about LP? Lol

I'm trying to figure out which wing is he talking about that excelled at the 4. I'm think Winslow but he could be talking about Stanley Johnson. But it he's talking about Stanley that would make two wings that excelled at the 4 in college. I didn't watch much of Arizona like I was forcefed Duke on my TV but I remember Winslow playing a lot of 4.

Liver_Pooty · Post #625 » by **Liver_Pooty** » Mon Jun 29, 2015 2:12 am

catch20two wrote:
Liver_Pooty wrote:
catch20two wrote:Is the wing that excelled at the 4 in college Justise Winslow? Because that's who came to mind.

Towns did pretty well playing beside Stein.

Huh? I know Towns proved to be a better draft prospect than Okafor and I shoulda betted but what are you talking about LP? Lol

I'm trying to figure out which wing is he talking about that excelled at the 4. I'm think Winslow but he could be talking about Stanley Johnson. But it he's talking about Stanley that would make two wings that excelled at the 4 in college. I didn't watch much of Arizona like I was forcefed Duke on my TV but I remember Winslow playing a lot of 4.

I misread his post, my bad. Totally disregarded him saying "wing"

Yeah, you're correct.

BlackOutBuzz · Post #626 » by **BlackOutBuzz** » Mon Jun 29, 2015 2:34 am

catch20two wrote:
BlackOutBuzz wrote:This year 4 of the top 6 picks - and 7 of the first 12 - were PF/Cs, not to mention a wing who excelled at the 4 in college. Quality bigs are still a valuable commodity.

Is the wing that excelled at the 4 in college Justise Winslow? Because that's who came to mind.

Yeah, that's who I was referring to.

Post #627 » by **yosemiteben** » Mon Jun 29, 2015 3:09 pm

Interesting piece about Kaminsky that cuts a little bit against this no-defense narrative.

Surprising conclusion: "Frank Kaminsky was better than both Towns and Cauley-Stein in protecting the rim and contesting shots."

Cheeze · Post #628 » by **Cheeze** » Mon Jun 29, 2015 3:44 pm

Frank's feet are underrated. He'll get pushed around, but he moves well. That translates defensively. I don't expect he'll be a plus defender against NBA bigs, but he'll hold his own. Good find.

Eoghan · Post #629 » by **Eoghan** » Mon Jun 29, 2015 4:09 pm

yosemiteben wrote:Interesting piece about Kaminsky that cuts a little bit against this no-defense narrative.

Surprising conclusion: "Frank Kaminsky was better than both Towns and Cauley-Stein in protecting the rim and contesting shots."

Post #630 » by **yosemiteben** » Mon Jun 29, 2015 4:22 pm

BrotherDave wrote:
yosemiteben wrote:Interesting piece about Kaminsky that cuts a little bit against this no-defense narrative.

Surprising conclusion: "Frank Kaminsky was better than both Towns and Cauley-Stein in protecting the rim and contesting shots."

Care to opine? Is that you bashing the advanced stats or just saying you don't think it'll translate?

dmutombo321 · Post #631 » by **dmutombo321** » Mon Jun 29, 2015 4:34 pm

While I wouldnt characterize Kaminsky as shot blocker extraordinaire, I do think he is better than people give him credit for. Same thing with Hawes. You play either of those guys 35 mins a game in the NBA, and they'll each be good for a block and a half each night.

And while Frank is certainly going to have to add some muscle, he is not by any means a poor on-the-ball defender. He did a respectable job defending both Okafor and Towns when Wisconsin played them in the tourney (to say nothing of his decisively outplaying each of them on the offensive side of the court).

Post #632 » by **fatlever** » Mon Jun 29, 2015 4:43 pm

[tweet]https://twitter.com/JPlowright_NBA/status/615556653837066240[/tweet]

countryboi · Post #633 » by **countryboi** » Mon Jun 29, 2015 5:14 pm

im getting some ryan anderson vibes from the tank

Post #634 » by **fatlever** » Mon Jun 29, 2015 5:23 pm

Anderson when he is healthy is pretty good. Sadly, he is never healthy, including the playoffs the past year.

SeanBobcats · Post #635 » by **SeanBobcats** » Mon Jun 29, 2015 5:39 pm

I can't tell if I like this pick after giving it a lot of thought and after looking into the analytics, but it honestly sure does feel like I do.

In all honesty a future lineup of Kemba-Batum-MKG-Zeller-Kaminsky could be VERY good. I'm thinking possibly a top 3 seed in the east if our guys develop right. Kaminsky and Batum on the perimeter give Zeller and MKG good lucks on cuts and we could see more work in the post from Zeller. Can't forget to mention that Batum and Kaminsky are very good passers. Those four guys will fit very well together offensively and defensively. The question is can Kemba be the player he needs to be, since he seems to be the odd man out of this group. I'd like to see him improve defensively and continue to work on his three point shooting. We actually won't have to worry too much about his facilitating if we eventually have Batum and Kaminsky on the floor together as starters.

Eoghan · Post #636 » by **Eoghan** » Mon Jun 29, 2015 5:49 pm

yosemiteben wrote:
BrotherDave wrote:
yosemiteben wrote:Interesting piece about Kaminsky that cuts a little bit against this no-defense narrative.

Surprising conclusion: "Frank Kaminsky was better than both Towns and Cauley-Stein in protecting the rim and contesting shots."

Care to opine? Is that you bashing the advanced stats or just saying you don't think it'll translate?

Both. I don't think defense is directly quantifiable and these "stay in front" and "blow-by" percentage stats just sound like bro-science. Any metric that views Kaminsky as a better defender than WCS in the NBA is probably not hitting on much.

I caught the end of a game where Maryland beat Wisconsin and Melo Trimble just scored on Wisconsin at will, especially with drives on Dirk Kaminsky. That's a lot more representative of his defense than painting him like Serge Ibaka.

He won't be Al Jefferson bad (can anyone be?) but he won't be any better than an average-slightly better than average defender at best.

MasterIchiro · Post #637 » by **MasterIchiro** » Mon Jun 29, 2015 6:15 pm

SeanBobcats wrote:I can't tell if I like this pick after giving it a lot of thought and after looking into the analytics, but it honestly sure does feel like I do.

In all honesty a future lineup of Kemba-Batum-MKG-Zeller-Kaminsky could be VERY good. I'm thinking possibly a top 3 seed in the east if our guys develop right. Kaminsky and Batum on the perimeter give Zeller and MKG good lucks on cuts and we could see more work in the post from Zeller. Can't forget to mention that Batum and Kaminsky are very good passers. Those four guys will fit very well together offensively and defensively. The question is can Kemba be the player he needs to be, since he seems to be the odd man out of this group. I'd like to see him improve defensively and continue to work on his three point shooting. We actually won't have to worry too much about his facilitating if we eventually have Batum and Kaminsky on the floor together as starters.

So Kemba and Lamb are the odd men out?

I think one of Zeller/MKG is.

Post #638 » by **yosemiteben** » Mon Jun 29, 2015 6:27 pm

BrotherDave wrote:He won't be Al Jefferson bad (can anyone be?) but he won't be any better than an average-slightly better than average defender at best.

Fair points. As for this specific statement, I'd be ok with that though. Assuming a starting lineup that includes Zeller, MKG, and Batum, I think we'll be fine if Kaminsky is just a tall, slightly better than average defender.

EwingSweatsALot · Post #639 » by **EwingSweatsALot** » Mon Jun 29, 2015 6:39 pm

yosemiteben wrote:
BrotherDave wrote:
yosemiteben wrote:Interesting piece about Kaminsky that cuts a little bit against this no-defense narrative.

Surprising conclusion: "Frank Kaminsky was better than both Towns and Cauley-Stein in protecting the rim and contesting shots."

Care to opine? Is that you bashing the advanced stats or just saying you don't think it'll translate?

Part of that has to do with Frank being a senior and Towns being a freshman. When it comes to WTCS, I don't know if those two guys are comparable.WTCS was asked to do a lot more. Chasing guys on the perimeter taking a lot of guys one on one where Frank was just the guy with one foot in the paint, last line of defense type.

I don't think Frank will ever be an above average defender. But I look at him like I do Al. If you're big enough, care enough and get in the right spots you can make a difference. Frank might not ever be strong enough one on one but he can alter some shots. We had a top defense with Al doing that two years ago, he'll we had a top defense with Al not doing it last year.

We can get by with Frank doing those things, I just don't think we can get by with 4 guys doing those things

Chapelchilla · Post #640 » by **Chapelchilla** » Mon Jun 29, 2015 6:53 pm

I like the pick and think Frank has the intangibles that will lead to him being a success in the NBA. I don't think he will necessarily need to be an every year All-Star player to be considered a success at the 9th pick. I think that he will bring above average general offense, he dribbles and passes well and has some post moves. Kaminsky obviously brings very good outside shooting for a big and I believe he will provide solid but not outstanding rebounding and likely will work hard to provide decent defense. This guy works at the game and wants to win in a team framework. That is not a given with a LOT of players.
Barring injury, I think he will have a 10 year plus NBA career and will be A contributing part of winning teams. Dude is a proven winner who works his butt off and shoots exceptionally well for a 7'1 guy. He will get stronger and is not afraid to mix it up. I think we are going to really like having him on our team in a year or two. Mark it!