Greatest Blazers Ever: Vote for #3: Brandon Roy vs. Maurice Lucas runoff

[Moonbeam]

The list so far is here.

Project Guidelines:

Spoiler:

1. Each thread will be open for 48 hours. After 48 hours have passed, the thread will close if a single player receives a majority of the votes. If not, the top 2-3 candidates will enter a runoff period of 24 hours. During this period, you may switch your vote to one of the reduced list of candidates if you voted for someone else.

2. When making a formal vote, please include the player's name in bold. This helps me keep track. Please include a justification for your choice. It may be brief, but simply writing the name of your choice will not be a counted vote.

3. You may switch your vote, but please emphasize this in bold.

4. Please only consider each player's performance with Portland.

5. We all have our favorites, and we all have our own criteria. I believe the discussion and learning from this project will be more important than the placement of the individual players.

6. Have fun!

Now it appears to be wide open. Who gets the nod? Lucas? Porter? Sheed? Roy? LMA?

[Masterfully]

Terry Porter goes here. Top 5 in almost every stat. #2 in win shares. 2 time All Star. The steady and guiding force during he golden era of Blazer basketball.

[Norm2953]

I'm going to go out on a limb and say ultimately Dame could be #3 for literally the entire
weight of the franchise will be on his shoulders for the next couple of years for the
upcoming rebuild will likely be steeper than we faced in 2005 for B-Roy had Aldridge
to help. Hitting that shot with .9 seconds is another reason.

A number of fine players over the years but prior to 1977, the team did not win but its
a shame we did not see Sabonis in 1989 with the Drexler led Blazers. For now, my vote
for #3 is for Sabonis but by 2019, its going to be Dame.

[Moonbeam]

I'm going to go out on a limb and say ultimately Dame could be #3 for literally the entire
weight of the franchise will be on his shoulders for the next couple of years for the
upcoming rebuild will likely be steeper than we faced in 2005 for B-Roy had Aldridge
to help. Hitting that shot with .9 seconds is another reason.

A number of fine players over the years but prior to 1977, the team did not win but its
a shame we did not see Sabonis in 1989 with the Drexler led Blazers. For now, my vote
for #3 is for Sabonis but by 2019, its going to be Dame.

Wasn't expecting any Sabas love this early, but he looks quite good in advanced stats. Why do you take him over the others? I could be swayed...

[PDXKnight]

Maurice Lucas. Mo was nearly as important in the 77 run as Walton and he was far more than the stats though his stats weren't anything to scoff at either. If this vote were going soley based off career accomplishments regardless of the team pippen would be here or perhaps even higher but in terms of what a guy did as a blazer mo certainly deserves a mention at 3 and ultimately he gets my vote.

[Run PDX]

Maurice "The Enforcer" Lucas, RIP.
If for no other reason than his uncanny ability to get into the head of Daryl Dawkins in the '77 Finals. Seriously, when he walked up to Dawkins the game after the two had fought, and shook his hand - Dawkins was lost for the rest of the playoffs.
Also, he was a good coach, a good man, and a Blazer through and through.
This one shouldn't be close.

[Masterfully]

I think I now understand why the entire 77 team has their number retired. One good playoff run and you're an all time great.

Lucas has 8.7 win shares in his best season, Terry topped that number 6 times.

[Moonbeam]

Terry Porter goes here. Top 5 in almost every stat. #2 in win shares. 2 time All Star. The steady and guiding force during he golden era of Blazer basketball.

I'm leaning that direction as well, but I want to dig a little deeper when I can before voting.

[PDXKnight]

Maurice "The Enforcer" Lucas, RIP.
If for no other reason than his uncanny ability to get into the head of Daryl Dawkins in the '77 Finals. Seriously, when he walked up to Dawkins the game after the two had fought, and shook his hand - Dawkins was lost for the rest of the playoffs.
Also, he was a good coach, a good man, and a Blazer through and through.
This one shouldn't be close.

I don't necessarily agree with the bolded statement. There were some pretty solid guys who had longer longevity as Blazers so I can see how someone like porter has been mentioned a couple times already. That being said I am firm on my Lucas vote. I was surprised to see that Lucas only spent 4 years in a Blazers uniform but oh what a four years it turned out to be. Now if only The blazers could win one in my lifetime

[Norm2953]

I'm going to go out on a limb and say ultimately Dame could be #3 for literally the entire
weight of the franchise will be on his shoulders for the next couple of years for the
upcoming rebuild will likely be steeper than we faced in 2005 for B-Roy had Aldridge
to help. Hitting that shot with .9 seconds is another reason.

A number of fine players over the years but prior to 1977, the team did not win but its
a shame we did not see Sabonis in 1989 with the Drexler led Blazers. For now, my vote
for #3 is for Sabonis but by 2019, its going to be Dame.

Wasn't expecting any Sabas love this early, but he looks quite good in advanced stats. Why do you take him over the others? I could be swayed...

Portland's had three teams that went on to challenge for a championship with the last team in 1998-00
being under-rated with a number of good players with Sheed, B-Grant and Damon but Portland ran
much of their offense through Sabas and his bulk in setting screens, passing and rebounding were
invaluable. His departure led to one of the worst periods in Blazer history for management was
desperate to replace the professionalism he brought to the franchise for not even the best efforts
of Scottie Pippen could stem the Jail Blazers .

Focus on the most important players on the teams that competed well in the playoffs rather than the
guys who put up numbers. Walton and Drexler are easy choices and I think for the most important
player for the teams in 1998-00 would be Sabas.

[d-train]

Roy

Walton, Clyde, and Brandon Roy are the only players in Blazer history that were good enough to lead the Blazers to a championship. Roy's career was short but if the Blazers had any talent surrounding him, he was good enough to carry a team to a championship. Porter, Rasheed, Lucas, and Pippen were great players and they could have been supporting players on a championship team but they couldn't carry a team to that high level. Pippen might have been close to that type of player in his prime but he was a Blazer when he was past his prime.

The knock on Roy is going to be longevity. His career was so short if you blinked you missed it. Had one of our great supporting players won multiple championships as a supporting player, then a good case could be made to give the nod to that player for longevity and accomplishment. But, that didn't happen only Lucas got a ring because he was on Walton's team and other than that 1.5 years Lucas did not distinguish himself as a great Blazer player. So, the only great supporting player that could challenge Roy because of a championship had shorter longevity as a Blazer than Roy did.

[Wizenheimer]

the three players that I'd consider for this have already been mentioned: Porter, Sabonis, & Roy. I might add Geoff Petrie to the list of candidates as well

since I didn't knock Walton out of the top spot because of a career limited by injury, I'd be inclined to elevate Roy to #3, but it's a tough call. But I'd go with Roy because he had the ability to take over and dominate games...and that's pretty rare

[DavidSterned]

Vote: Terry Porter

He has the right combination of high peak, longevity, and team success. He's pretty clearly still the #1 PG in franchise history (sorry Dame), and he was putting up fantastic production in the early '90s. It's tough to see how anyone else has the all-around credentials to top him here, even if they did have higher individual peaks (LMA, Roy, possibly Sheed).

[mojomarc]

I considered Porter, Lucas, Sheed, Sabas, and of course Ha Seung-jin for #3, but I have to agree with d-train here. Not only did Roy have a huge peak (there was significant national support that he was a top-10 player in the league, top 15 at worst, before his knees gave out), but his importance to the franchise was immense. I'm guessing a lot of people voting for Luke, who I am sure I'll vote for 4th, don't remember this, but the Blazers were up for sale in 2006 after the Rose Garden bankruptcy. Brandon Roy's ROY run was on of the key reasons Paul Allen took the Blazers off the market, according to interviews.

Granted, it was as a short tenure before the knees gave out. But you have to give points for saving the franchise and being the key player that erased the Jail Blazers era.

[Quotatious]

Vote: Terry Porter

Porter just barely ahead of LMA because of slightly better longevity and also for the fact that he was an excellent playoff performer (he was better in the playoffs than he was in the regular season, which is a rarity).

[Run PDX]

I don't really put all of my say in statistics, because so many times those can be empty - or simply accumulated over time, with or without purpose behind them. That's why I put Lucas and Sheed ahead of Aldridge - they represented more than individual statistics, and they helped the team succeed in the playoffs.
Porter would definitely be my fourth.
But, Lucas did something so special for this team. He was our second best player on the best team we ever put on the floor - and, Walton keeps saying that Lucas was actually the best player on that team as well. And, it wasn't until Lucas went down with an injury the year after our championship that the team really struggled (he led them without Walton to that point).

[Masterfully]

I don't really put all of my say in statistics, because so many times those can be empty - or simply accumulated over time, with or without purpose behind them. That's why I put Lucas and Sheed ahead of Aldridge - they represented more than individual statistics, and they helped the team succeed in the playoffs.
Porter would definitely be my fourth.
But, Lucas did something so special for this team. He was our second best player on the best team we ever put on the floor - and, Walton keeps saying that Lucas was actually the best player on that team as well. And, it wasn't until Lucas went down with an injury the year after our championship that the team really struggled (he led them without Walton to that point).

I agree somewhat. But I don't think anyone is basing their votes off stats alone. I mean, Randolph scored more points than Roy, but nobody would put Zach over Roy. Zach proves that some stats are empty. But win shares are the opposite of empty. They are the ultimate measure of a player. Porter had over 10 playoff win shares, Lucas had 2.6. That's huge. Those aren't empty stats.

I also think we should put the 77 team in perspective. They were very very good during their 19 playiff run, but they were very very average during the regular season. IMO it isn't the best Blazer team ever. Winning a title takes a lot of things, including some luck. And where do you draw the line? Hollins was the third best player on that team, does he automatically get elevated above players that were clearly superior then him because of those 19 playoff games?

[Wizenheimer]

I also think we should put the 77 team in perspective. They were very very good during their 19 playiff run, but they were very very average during the regular season. IMO it isn't the best Blazer team ever. ?

I strongly disagree with this

that 1976-77 team was incredibly young...still the youngest to ever win a championship. Hollins and Gross were only in their 2nd seasons. And it had several new players that had only arrived that season: Lucas, Twardzick, Johnny Davis, Herm Gilliam, Corky Calhoun, Robin Jones....all those guys were in their 1st year in Portland

it took time for that team to gel; to learn the offense and get comfortable with each other; to recognize their roles. That didn't happen till towards the end of the season. They won the last 6 games of the regular season and went 14-5 in the playoffs. They were dominating. And they were healthy the following season and the domination continued. They started the season 32-5 and 50-10. In other words, over an 85 game stretch, they were 70-15. I saw that team play, and I saw the Drexler teams play, and the Dunleavy team. There is no doubt in my mind that Walton team was the best Blazer team ever. It was one of the best NBA teams ever. Yes, it failed the test of durability, but it would have beat any other Blazer team in a traditional 7 game series, and I think it would not have been seriously challenged

also, add in the fact that 77 team had easily the best coach

[Masterfully]

I also think we should put the 77 team in perspective. They were very very good during their 19 playiff run, but they were very very average during the regular season. IMO it isn't the best Blazer team ever. ?

I strongly disagree with this

that 1976-77 team was incredibly young...still the youngest to ever win a championship. Hollins and Gross were only in their 2nd seasons. And it had several new players that had only arrived that season: Lucas, Twardzick, Johnny Davis, Herm Gilliam, Corky Calhoun, Robin Jones....all those guys were in their 1st year in Portland

it took time for that team to gel; to learn the offense and get comfortable with each other; to recognize their roles. That didn't happen till towards the end of the season. They won the last 6 games of the regular season and went 14-5 in the playoffs. They were dominating. And they were healthy the following season and the domination continued. They started the season 32-5 and 50-10. In other words, over an 85 game stretch, they were 70-15. I saw that team play, and I saw the Drexler teams play, and the Dunleavy team. There is no doubt in my mind that Walton team was the best Blazer team ever. It was one of the best NBA teams ever. Yes, it failed the test of durability, but it would have beat any other Blazer team in a traditional 7 game series, and I think it would not have been seriously challenged

also, add in the fact that 77 team had easily the best coach

Sounds like we agree about the 77 team, just not about the 78 team. But where do you draw the line? Does Twardzik get bumped above much better players because he was part of those 2 great, albeit truncated, teams?

[kdawg32086]

My vote goes to Maurice Lucas. Was an integral part of the championship team (along with Walton) as our enforcer and according to Blazer folklore, he's the one who turned things around for us in the finals by setting the tone when he took on Dawkins.