Official Rap/Hip Hop Thread IV

IllmaticHandler · Post #161 » by **IllmaticHandler** » Tue Jul 28, 2015 10:41 pm

Lets keep things simple here. Pac is a Goat Artist. He is not a Goat Spitter. We must understand the difference. Pac would get washed up by non "Legends" bar for bar.

IllmaticHandler · Post #162 » by **IllmaticHandler** » Tue Jul 28, 2015 10:44 pm

For the record NAS is the Goat MC

E-Balla · Post #163 » by **E-Balla** » Tue Jul 28, 2015 10:54 pm

IllmaticHandler wrote:Lets keep things simple here. Pac is a Goat Artist. He is not a Goat Spitter. We must understand the difference. Pac would get washed up by non "Legends" bar for bar.

What makes him a GOAT artist though? Damn sure ain't his music. Pac is an icon and he will always be remembered for his character first, his political commentary second, and his music third. I mean everyone talks about Pac being real but they ignore this dude played Bishop and Birdie and decided to take that as his persona from then on :lol:

. Like I seriously never have had someone respond to me saying Pac is overrated by actually calling his albums great.

CoolKids wrote:
E-Balla wrote:
KingofNYC30 wrote:
I like Em, but he doesn't have the catalog to be the greatest. He only has one or two classic albums. There's no way you can have EM over Rakim, Hov, Pac, Nas, Kane and others..

Wait Pac has more than 2 classics? News to me. Fact: Tupac is the most overrated artist (not just rapper) ever.
Fact: Tupac has not only just 2 classics but only 2 good albums.
Fact: Tupac has a lot of good songs but on half of them he has terrible features with terrible verses.
Fact: Outside of All Eyez On Me none of Pac's albums were critically acclaimed until after he died then suddenly he became the GOAT?
Fact: I've checked Usenet and Pac wasn't even seen as the best West Coast rapper back then I mostly saw Cube named as the best.
Fact: Tupac never had album of the year or was really ever in the top 2.
Fact: T.I. has just as much critical acclaim as Tupac did before he died.

You're buggin. You can't blame an artist for getting killed...Tupac is a goat no matter what you wanna think. He was the type of artist who would of had longevity. And how the hell are so many people putting LL cool J on their lists? He was and is garbage.

Not blaming him for being killed I'm just not putting his basic ass catalog on a pedestal because he died.

IllmaticHandler · Post #164 » by **IllmaticHandler** » Tue Jul 28, 2015 11:14 pm

E-Balla wrote:
IllmaticHandler wrote:Lets keep things simple here. Pac is a Goat Artist. He is not a Goat Spitter. We must understand the difference. Pac would get washed up by non "Legends" bar for bar.

What makes him a GOAT artist though? Damn sure ain't his music. Pac is an icon and he will always be remembered for his character first, his political commentary second, and his music third. I mean everyone talks about Pac being real but they ignore this dude played Bishop and Birdie and decided to take that as his persona from then on . Like I seriously never have had someone respond to me saying Pac is overrated by actually calling his albums great.

CoolKids wrote:
E-Balla wrote:Wait Pac has more than 2 classics? News to me. Fact: Tupac is the most overrated artist (not just rapper) ever.
Fact: Tupac has not only just 2 classics but only 2 good albums.
Fact: Tupac has a lot of good songs but on half of them he has terrible features with terrible verses.
Fact: Outside of All Eyez On Me none of Pac's albums were critically acclaimed until after he died then suddenly he became the GOAT?
Fact: I've checked Usenet and Pac wasn't even seen as the best West Coast rapper back then I mostly saw Cube named as the best.
Fact: Tupac never had album of the year or was really ever in the top 2.
Fact: T.I. has just as much critical acclaim as Tupac did before he died.

You're buggin. You can't blame an artist for getting killed...Tupac is a goat no matter what you wanna think. He was the type of artist who would of had longevity. And how the hell are so many people putting LL cool J on their lists? He was and is garbage.

Not blaming him for being killed I'm just not putting his basic ass catalog on a pedestal because he died.

Because of his impact on the people. No rapper has ever had a more emotional connection with his fans than Pac. There were people who never even knew him and would kill for him. Pac's intelligence as a Hip Hop artist is also top tier. Thats what makes him a Goat artist. I was never a Pac fan, but to not acknowledge his artistry as legendary, is to be blind.

E-Balla · Post #165 » by **E-Balla** » Tue Jul 28, 2015 11:24 pm

IllmaticHandler wrote:
E-Balla wrote:
IllmaticHandler wrote:Lets keep things simple here. Pac is a Goat Artist. He is not a Goat Spitter. We must understand the difference. Pac would get washed up by non "Legends" bar for bar.

What makes him a GOAT artist though? Damn sure ain't his music. Pac is an icon and he will always be remembered for his character first, his political commentary second, and his music third. I mean everyone talks about Pac being real but they ignore this dude played Bishop and Birdie and decided to take that as his persona from then on . Like I seriously never have had someone respond to me saying Pac is overrated by actually calling his albums great.

Because of his impact on the people. No rapper has ever had a more emotional connection with his fans than Pac. There were people who never even knew him and would kill for him. Pac's intelligence as a Hip Hop artist is also top tier. Thats what makes him a Goat artist. I was never a Pac fan, but to not acknowledge his artistry as legendary, is to be blind.

Calling his artistry legendary means he's legendary as a rapper. Even you aren't agreeing with that. His persona is legendary. Pac did have a great connection with his fans but it was established with what he did outside of the booth and when discussing rap careers I'm not taking Pac's interview ability into account at all.

Fury · Post #166 » by **Fury** » Tue Jul 28, 2015 11:29 pm

I'm taking all taht into account with Pac. If we're just talking bars, why is Kanye on any list?

IllmaticHandler · Post #167 » by **IllmaticHandler** » Tue Jul 28, 2015 11:40 pm

I cant even take E Balla Serious. He has DMX as one the fifteen nicest ever.

Knicksfan1992 · Post #168 » by **Knicksfan1992** » Tue Jul 28, 2015 11:53 pm

In that Nickelus F interview with Complex he says about 4 different answers about writing for Drake that I can't even tell what the phuck he's talking about. I'll take mine with the simple answer of No as my evidence.

E-Balla · Post #169 » by **E-Balla** » Wed Jul 29, 2015 12:15 am

Fury wrote:I'm taking all taht into account with Pac. If we're just talking bars, why is Kanye on any list?

I never said I'm taking bars into account but songs. Kanye has great songs but its mostly off the strength of his production. Pac not so much. I mean Pac had a lot of really good songs but he had a lot of bad songs too and outside of 2 albums you gotta skip a lot of tracks. His whole career is the Blueprint 2. Good but nothing amazing.

IllmaticHandler wrote:I cant even take E Balla Serious. He has DMX as one the fifteen nicest ever.

Like It's Dark and Hell is Hot isn't a classic and DMX doesn't have a ton of hits that came out after. Really he's probably the person I get the side eye most for having in my top 20 but DMX has always been one of those guys people forgot about but he was everywhere back in the day and sometimes he went in completely.

KingofNYC30 · Post #170 » by **KingofNYC30** » Wed Jul 29, 2015 1:13 am

IllmaticHandler wrote:I cant even take E Balla Serious. He has DMX as one the fifteen nicest ever.

Lol he had Kanye higher than BIG :lol:

Post #171 » by **Manhattan Project** » Wed Jul 29, 2015 3:11 am

In no order:
Black Thought
Pharoahe Monch
Ghostface Killah
AZ
Biggie
Jay Z
Sha Stimuli
GZA
Eminem
MF Doom

Ask again tomorrow and I'll probably have some different rappers. Never quite sure how to handle some of the younger rappers because when it's all said and done they'll definitely be up there. Quite frankly just doing a top ten is foolish because there's simply to many great rappers.

Fury · Post #172 » by **Fury** » Wed Jul 29, 2015 3:21 am

I rather see lists of favorite rappers:

Eminem
TI
Jay Rock
Yelawolf
Kendrick
Kanye
ASAP
Nas
Flatbush Zombies
YG
Danny Brown
Travis Scott

Fat Kat · Post #173 » by **Fat Kat** » Wed Jul 29, 2015 3:24 am

In no particular order

KRS
Redman
Biggie
Jay-Z
Rakim
Nas
Andre 3000
Talib
Raekwon
Em

Knicksfan1992 · Post #174 » by **Knicksfan1992** » Wed Jul 29, 2015 4:40 am

Favorite Rappers (in somewhat of an order)
Drake
Weezy
J Cole
Hov
50
Kendrick
Nas
BIG
Old Wiz
Pac
Em
Fabolous
Big L
Snoop
Pusha
Future

Knicksfan1992 · Post #175 » by **Knicksfan1992** » Wed Jul 29, 2015 4:41 am

How could I forget the Wu?

Post #176 » by **kane2021** » Wed Jul 29, 2015 5:43 am

I know he had a corny style but man moe dee was NICE
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzD18q0-Tq0[/youtube]
A Brooklyn dude that never gets any credit
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4TFfRpAedo[/youtube]
This was a legendary radio free style with Big L and Jay Z on Bobbitos radio show
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=caTOCE4Nvx4[/youtube]

Fast forward to the 3:50 mark and check out my man Lord Finesse repping my hood

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7URLSd-xkXc[/youtube]

Fat Kat · Post #177 » by **Fat Kat** » Wed Jul 29, 2015 12:19 pm

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9NmH1N-na10[/youtube]

Knicksfan1992 · Post #178 » by **Knicksfan1992** » Wed Jul 29, 2015 12:28 pm

Fat Kat wrote:[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9NmH1N-na10[/youtube]

Good night Meek. "Trigger fingers turn to twitter fingers,you getting bodied by a singing n***a"

Post #179 » by **j4remi** » Wed Jul 29, 2015 12:43 pm

E-Balla wrote:Calling his artistry legendary means he's legendary as a rapper. Even you aren't agreeing with that. His persona is legendary. Pac did have a great connection with his fans but it was established with what he did outside of the booth and when discussing rap careers I'm not taking Pac's interview ability into account at all.

It's not his persona, it's his storytelling. He was a polarizing figure yes, but tracks like Brenda's Got A Baby, Dear Mama and Keep Your Head Up are complete outliers for most successful music in that period. He had the versatility to make radio hits, thinking pieces and tell stories all at top notch levels. Lyrically, you could ask for more of the obvious wordplay ish I guess...but this is high level penmanship here

"I will never understand this society
First they try to murder me, then they lie to me
Product of a dying breed, all my homies trying weed
Now the little baby's crazed raised off Hennessey

Tell me will my enemies flee when they see me
Believe me even thugs gotta learn to take it easy, listen
Through the intermissions search your heart for a plan
And we turnin' Bad Boys to grown men, it's on again"

The interior multis make a fairly simplistic scheme stronger. None of the bars is forced, it's conversational in spite of being littered with assonance and structured rhymes. He's making a powerful statement. Strictly on the lyrics tip, you could definitely argue emcees above him but he's legendary as a RAPPER. He was lacing poems into music during the gangsta rap era, you could use his music to teach poetry or sociology, it can supplement history lessons and be excavated for literary devices.

All this, and I typically put Pac outside of my top five...but damn if I don't think it's a slight on him to say his rapping wasn't legendary, it absolutely was.

Post #180 » by **Brooklyn_Yards** » Wed Jul 29, 2015 1:02 pm

My Top 15 in no particular order after Jay.
Jay Z
Dmx
Ghostface
Biggie
J Cole
Kanye
Ab soul
Fabolous
Andre 3 stacks
Cube
Scarface
Q-Tip
Busta
Common
Nas
Every list is debatable. I could've kept adding to my list because I really like Em, Mos Def, Weezy and Drake but the artist listed had a major impact on my love for hip-hop, lyricism and battle rapping. I could write a paragraph on my love for each rapper listed.