Greatest Blazers Ever: Vote for #9: Kersey vs. Lillard runoff

[Moonbeam]

About Kersey: He was a guy whose impact extended beyond his raw stats. He was still a very good player when he was putting up 10-12 PPG instead of 16-19 PPG. He's a guy for whom +/- data well after he left Portland still showed to be a postive-impact player, so I think he was definitely a key cog to Portland. He was fortunate to have great teammates, but he did a lot to help Portland be great.

Here is the simple WOWY data for Kersey in seasons he played at least 20 MPG

Code: Select all

Season  G With G Without SRS With SRS Without SRS Diff
----------------------------------------------------------
1988       83       3      3.16       8.93     -5.78
1989       79       6      0.40       5.37     -4.97
1991       89       9      8.15       4.81      3.35
1992       98       5      7.89      -3.80     11.68
1993       69      17      3.52       0.25      3.27


There's a lot of noise here, but weighted by missed games, that's an average of +2.42 over a Period when Portland was at its best. That +2.42 number may seem small, but it's not. Nobody is suggesting that Kersey is a star, but he was a very good player for Portland for a long time, and everything suggests he was an important part of their success.

[zzaj]

I can't vote for Damian because it doesn't make sense to me to vote for current players.

so if we were voting for greatest Cavaliers, LeBron wouldn't be in your top ten? you really believe Duncan isn't a top ten Spur? what sense does that make?

Even though they are still playing, Lebron and Duncan are the clear-cut #1 players of those respective franchises. Damian could be #1 or he could get injured later this afternoon and end up #20. If Lillard had played 12 seasons with the Blazers at his current level, put the team on his back to win a few championships, broke some records and was the clear cut #1, I'd probably list him at #1 if he was still playing. But it's easier for my brain to have limits in putting together such a subjective list...thus, no current players.

[Wizenheimer]

Final tally:

Damian Lillard (9): JasonStern, Norm2953, Oden2, James72, rasta_marley, Norm2953, Brandon-Clyde, mojomarc, Agenda42

Jerome Kersey (8): Soulyss, Masterfully, a_sensei, DaVoiceMaster, Moonbeam, kdawg32086, Wizenheimer, zzaj

Lillard takes 9 votes to claim place #9!

I want my vote counted twice like Norm's was...

(that looks like a tie in my old-age math by the way)

[JasonStern]

I can't vote for Damian because it doesn't make sense to me to vote for current players.

so if we were voting for greatest Cavaliers, LeBron wouldn't be in your top ten? you really believe Duncan isn't a top ten Spur? what sense does that make?

Even though they are still playing, Lebron and Duncan are the clear-cut #1 players of those respective franchises. Damian could be #1 or he could get injured later this afternoon and end up #20.

so he gets injured, and somehow his third team all-NBA appearance, two all-star appearances, rookie of the year award, skills challenge award, playoff series clinching shot against Houston, etc., etc. are all worthless and he's a Brian Grant tier player?

Final tally:

Damian Lillard (9): JasonStern, Norm2953, Oden2, James72, rasta_marley, Norm2953, Brandon-Clyde, mojomarc, Agenda42

Jerome Kersey (8): Soulyss, Masterfully, a_sensei, DaVoiceMaster, Moonbeam, kdawg32086, Wizenheimer, zzaj

Lillard takes 9 votes to claim place #9!

I want my vote counted twice like Norm's was...

(that looks like a tie in my old-age math by the way)

fair enough. if Wizenheimer votes twice for Kersey, then I vote twice for Lillard to give him the lead.

[zzaj]

so if we were voting for greatest Cavaliers, LeBron wouldn't be in your top ten? you really believe Duncan isn't a top ten Spur? what sense does that make?

Even though they are still playing, Lebron and Duncan are the clear-cut #1 players of those respective franchises. Damian could be #1 or he could get injured later this afternoon and end up #20.

so he gets injured, and somehow his third team all-NBA appearance, two all-star appearances, rookie of the year award, skills challenge award, playoff series clinching shot against Houston, etc., etc. are all worthless and he's a Brian Grant tier player?

Final tally:

Damian Lillard (9): JasonStern, Norm2953, Oden2, James72, rasta_marley, Norm2953, Brandon-Clyde, mojomarc, Agenda42

Jerome Kersey (8): Soulyss, Masterfully, a_sensei, DaVoiceMaster, Moonbeam, kdawg32086, Wizenheimer, zzaj

Lillard takes 9 votes to claim place #9!

I want my vote counted twice like Norm's was...

(that looks like a tie in my old-age math by the way)

fair enough. if Wizenheimer votes twice for Kersey, then I vote twice for Lillard to give him the lead.

You're right, that Skills Challenge Award that Lillard achieved swayed me

If Lillard never played again I'd probably put him somewhere in the Petrie/Paxon area between 8-12. That is unless other Blazers current and future pushed him out of that range. I am not sure why you are so hell bent on trying to damn my opinion or procedure...it's not like it counts for anything. I suppose your apparent Lillard crush might have something to do with it...

[Moonbeam]

Final tally:

Damian Lillard (9): JasonStern, Norm2953, Oden2, James72, rasta_marley, Norm2953, Brandon-Clyde, mojomarc, Agenda42

Jerome Kersey (8): Soulyss, Masterfully, a_sensei, DaVoiceMaster, Moonbeam, kdawg32086, Wizenheimer, zzaj

Lillard takes 9 votes to claim place #9!

I want my vote counted twice like Norm's was...

(that looks like a tie in my old-age math by the way)

Oh dear, you are right!

I'll officially swap my vote to Lillard to clinch the victory for him. Doh!

[Agenda42]

I can't vote for Damian because it doesn't make sense to me to vote for current players.

so if we were voting for greatest Cavaliers, LeBron wouldn't be in your top ten? you really believe Duncan isn't a top ten Spur? what sense does that make?

Even though they are still playing, Lebron and Duncan are the clear-cut #1 players of those respective franchises. Damian could be #1 or he could get injured later this afternoon and end up #20. If Lillard had played 12 seasons with the Blazers at his current level, put the team on his back to win a few championships, broke some records and was the clear cut #1, I'd probably list him at #1 if he was still playing. But it's easier for my brain to have limits in putting together such a subjective list...thus, no current players.

The way I see it, if Lillard gets hit by a bus and never plays again, he'd end up #9. Knowing the way Blazer fans work, he might even move up a spot or two.

His career accomplishments are quite impressive already. We have plenty of short timers to rank on the list, and you just pretend that he had only a three year career when you evaluate.

[JasonStern]

I am not sure why you are so hell bent on trying to damn my opinion or procedure...it's not like it counts for anything. I suppose your apparent Lillard crush might have something to do with it...

if you don't want feedback and discussion, then why in the world are you posting your opinion on an internet forum?

[zzaj]

I am not sure why you are so hell bent on trying to damn my opinion or procedure...it's not like it counts for anything. I suppose your apparent Lillard crush might have something to do with it...

if you don't want feedback and discussion, then why in the world are you posting your opinion on an internet forum?

I enjoy discussion and feedback on OTHER peoples' posts but not on mine...because mine are always right!

Seriously though, your tone and multiple eyerolls seemed to imply some special abrbitrary condemnation for whatever I was writing, even after I explained my reasoning--which is fine. I have no problem accepting critique on my thoughts here. I was just curious. But I still think you have a Lillard crush

As we all know, people on these forums reply to a post for 1 of 2 reasons, they strongly disagree with a point or they strongly agree with a point. You'll notice that these "Greatest" threads don't have a ton of personal replies. IMO, that's because everyone here generally recognizes that this list isn't that controversial...there isn't really a need for a strong reaction to a post. Everyone has an opinion and meh, whatever...that's their opinion.

If it makes you feel any better, I realize that not including current Blazers in this list discussion is an unpopular procedure; a couple posters have brought it up. But IMO, it doesn't make it any less valid than a guideline such as "the weight of longevity"...as I said before, in such a subjective list everyone is coming at it from different perspectives. The fun is seeing how different people view the players throughout the history of the team.

I enjoy your posts. Now go make drinking jokes with Wiz or something

[Norm2953]

Final tally:

Damian Lillard (9): JasonStern, Norm2953, Oden2, James72, rasta_marley, Norm2953, Brandon-Clyde, mojomarc, Agenda42

Jerome Kersey (8): Soulyss, Masterfully, a_sensei, DaVoiceMaster, Moonbeam, kdawg32086, Wizenheimer, zzaj

Lillard takes 9 votes to claim place #9!

I want my vote counted twice like Norm's was...

(that looks like a tie in my old-age math by the way)

Oh dear, you are right!

I'll officially swap my vote to Lillard to clinch the victory for him. Doh!

Maybe I should get two votes all of the time

[JasonStern]

But I still think you have a Lillard crush

nah, but after last year's mass exodus, he's the prettiest girl left in the bar.

[zzaj]

But I still think you have a Lillard crush

nah, but after last year's mass exodus, he's the prettiest girl left in the bar.

Pssh, everyone know that Meyers is easily the prettiest girl in Trailblazer history...