O.T. .::THE SCIENCE AND PHILOSOPHY THREAD::.

[Iron Mantis]

WTF is wrong with people....

This tragedy is unbearable. I have a very difficult time watching the news anymore.

Not sure if you are a spiritually inclined person, but the Bible gives a very lucid expose' into exactly why things are this bad and will get even worse, and the appointed time when God will say enough is enough and permanently remove all wickedness and suffering from the earth.

I take much comfort in this hope. Without it I would be at a total loss for direction and purpose in this world gone entirely mad.

How God allows to to be this way in general is the part that escapes me. I fail to find any comfort or have heard a cogent explanation as to why it has to be this way.

As revealed in the Genesis account, In the Garden of Eden, with the first two humans as the target to aid in the original rebellion, the issue was raised regarding the rightfulness of God's right to rule mankind and His intelligent creatures.

The spirit being, whose original name is never given, but later to be called by the titles "Devil"(slanderer), and "Satan"(resister/opposer), asserted that God was withholding something good from mankind, stunting their ability to reach their full potential, by keeping them subject to His rulership and direction.

He played the ventriloquist role behind a serpent, with lies and deception, convinced Eve that she would "not die" if she disobeyed God, and that she would "become like God, knowing good and bad".


As free moral agents, intelligent creatures have the ability, via free will, to choose obey God's moral standards or disobey and suffer the consequences.

As the Creator of the universe, everything in it, and the Giver of life, God knows what's best for His creation to be happy and at peace under His loving direction and His generous providing of all their needs and desires.

Eve truly believed Satan's lie and disobeyed God, joined in Satan's rebellion, from that point allowing Satan to successfully establish a rival sovereignty with Eve, later Adam, eventually their offspring(the human race who chooses to ignore God), and later many other spirit creatures breaking free from God's rulership and in essence, actually giving their worship to Satan.

With All intelligent Creation watching this original drama unfold from the spirit realm, the question was raised and the issue was out there.

God could have vanquished the rebellion right there, killed the three, but it would have proved nothing but the fact that God is almighty in power, and likely could have raised suspicion that He was likely trying to cover something up.

Time was needed to prove once and for all that Satan was lying, mankind cannot rule themselves, and that God has the right and best way of ruling His intelligent creation.

We are right now living very close to the end of this trial being proved in God's favor, His name being cleared of reproach, and His final acting to vanquish the rebellion; thus, setting a universal precedent so God will never again have to allow rebellion in the universe.

We are living amid and seeing in all it's starkness what happens when humans try to rule themselves independent of God; sheer bedlam, confusion, and chaos which gets progressively worse and more dense in its darkness.

Mankind has experimented with every form of government and domination over other humans and all it has brought about is a snowball of misery and suffering and death for the human race.

If rebellion should dare to break out again(it won't) this bloc of time and this account on earth serves forever as a touchstone to dissuade questioning the rightfulness of God's sovereignty, and he can immediately act to quell an outbreak against Him.

Fortunately, out of God's supreme Love and wisdom, he immediately acted from the onset to provide a means to relieve mankind of suffering caused from this, and to undo all the ill effects of the rebellion and restore all things back to his original purpose.

That means was eloquently tied up in the first prophecy God uttered, which is recorded at Genesis 3:15.

[BKlutch]

I'm not saying the previous post is wrong for this thread. I think that Science and Philosophy or Religion are not mutually compatible, and to lump them all together will cause needless friction. The scientific way revolves around what we can see, experience, feel, examine, and analyze. The religious experience involves faith, and probably cannot be proven or disproven if the try for a thousand more years.

[TheBigBoss]

Glad to see this thread bumped up because here is some breaking news about Cancer reseatch:

Cancer researchers have demonstrated a method to reprogram tumour cells into benign cells in what could be a dramatic breakthrough in the fight against the disease.

Scientists warn the method has only been trialled 'in vitro', and has not been tested on live human patients. But the hope is the technique may lead to a treatment for different cancers far less destructive than chemotherapy.

Cancer cells are essentially the same as normal cells, but instead of stopping the process of division during replication, they continue to divide. The result is a tumour. The instruction to stop dividing is usually controlled by microRNAs, small but critical biological markers within the cells, but something happens inside cancerous cells which stops that process.

The team at the Mayo Clinic in Florida found that by injecting human breast and bladder cancer cells with PLEKHA7 -- the protein thought to stop cells dividing when added in the right quantities -- they could transform cancer cells into benign cells. The insight into the role of PLEKHA7 helped the team understand how the behaviour of proteins E-cadherin and p120 catenin, which are critical for holding normal tissue together while also powering cancer division, could be regulated.

"This uncovers a new strategy for cancer therapy."

Antonis Kourtidis, Mayo Clinic

"We should be able to re-establish the brakes and restore normal cell function," professor Panos Anastasiadis, of the Department for Cancer Biology at Mayo told The Telegraph. "Initial experiments in some aggressive types of cancer are indeed very promising."

http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2015-08/26/cancer-trial-breakthrough-microrna-plekha7

Well I guess all that money toward cancer research is finally amounting to something. Hopefully by the time we are all senior citizens, deaths due to cancer will be a thing of the past.

[And100]

This tragedy is unbearable. I have a very difficult time watching the news anymore.

Not sure if you are a spiritually inclined person, but the Bible gives a very lucid expose' into exactly why things are this bad and will get even worse, and the appointed time when God will say enough is enough and permanently remove all wickedness and suffering from the earth.

I take much comfort in this hope. Without it I would be at a total loss for direction and purpose in this world gone entirely mad.

How God allows to to be this way in general is the part that escapes me. I fail to find any comfort or have heard a cogent explanation as to why it has to be this way.

As revealed in the Genesis account, In the Garden of Eden, with the first two humans as the target to aid in the original rebellion, the issue was raised regarding the rightfulness of God's right to rule mankind and His intelligent creatures.

The spirit being, whose original name is never given, but later to be called by the titles "Devil"(slanderer), and "Satan"(resister/opposer), asserted that God was withholding something good from mankind, stunting their ability to reach their full potential, by keeping them subject to His rulership and direction.

He played the ventriloquist role behind a serpent, with lies and deception, convinced Eve that she would "not die" if she disobeyed God, and that she would "become like God, knowing good and bad".


As free moral agents, intelligent creatures have the ability, via free will, to choose obey God's moral standards or disobey and suffer the consequences.

As the Creator of the universe, everything in it, and the Giver of life, God knows what's best for His creation to be happy and at peace under His loving direction and His generous providing of all their needs and desires.

Eve truly believed Satan's lie and disobeyed God, joined in Satan's rebellion, from that point allowing Satan to successfully establish a rival sovereignty with Eve, later Adam, eventually their offspring(the human race who chooses to ignore God), and later many other spirit creatures breaking free from God's rulership and in essence, actually giving their worship to Satan.

With All intelligent Creation watching this original drama unfold from the spirit realm, the question was raised and the issue was out there.

God could have vanquished the rebellion right there, killed the three, but it would have proved nothing but the fact that God is almighty in power, and likely could have raised suspicion that He was likely trying to cover something up.

Time was needed to prove once and for all that Satan was lying, mankind cannot rule themselves, and that God has the right and best way of ruling His intelligent creation.

We are right now living very close to the end of this trial being proved in God's favor, His name being cleared of reproach, and His final acting to vanquish the rebellion; thus, setting a universal precedent so God will never again have to allow rebellion in the universe.

We are living amid and seeing in all it's starkness what happens when humans try to rule themselves independent of God; sheer bedlam, confusion, and chaos which gets progressively worse and more dense in its darkness.

Mankind has experimented with every form of government and domination over other humans and all it has brought about is a snowball of misery and suffering and death for the human race.

If rebellion should dare to break out again(it won't) this bloc of time and this account on earth serves forever as a touchstone to dissuade questioning the rightfulness of God's sovereignty, and he can immediately act to quell an outbreak against Him.

Fortunately, out of God's supreme Love and wisdom, he immediately acted from the onset to provide a means to relieve mankind of suffering caused from this, and to undo all the ill effects of the rebellion and restore all things back to his original purpose.

That means was eloquently tied up in the first prophecy God uttered, which is recorded at Genesis 3:15.

My original question still stands, which I why I preferred a 21st century POV. The logic and/or what's comforting in that explanation alludes me.

[Iron Mantis]

How God allows to to be this way in general is the part that escapes me. I fail to find any comfort or have heard a cogent explanation as to why it has to be this way.

As revealed in the Genesis account, In the Garden of Eden, with the first two humans as the target to aid in the original rebellion, the issue was raised regarding the rightfulness of God's right to rule mankind and His intelligent creatures.

The spirit being, whose original name is never given, but later to be called by the titles "Devil"(slanderer), and "Satan"(resister/opposer), asserted that God was withholding something good from mankind, stunting their ability to reach their full potential, by keeping them subject to His rulership and direction.

He played the ventriloquist role behind a serpent, with lies and deception, convinced Eve that she would "not die" if she disobeyed God, and that she would "become like God, knowing good and bad".


As free moral agents, intelligent creatures have the ability, via free will, to choose obey God's moral standards or disobey and suffer the consequences.

As the Creator of the universe, everything in it, and the Giver of life, God knows what's best for His creation to be happy and at peace under His loving direction and His generous providing of all their needs and desires.

Eve truly believed Satan's lie and disobeyed God, joined in Satan's rebellion, from that point allowing Satan to successfully establish a rival sovereignty with Eve, later Adam, eventually their offspring(the human race who chooses to ignore God), and later many other spirit creatures breaking free from God's rulership and in essence, actually giving their worship to Satan.

With All intelligent Creation watching this original drama unfold from the spirit realm, the question was raised and the issue was out there.

God could have vanquished the rebellion right there, killed the three, but it would have proved nothing but the fact that God is almighty in power, and likely could have raised suspicion that He was likely trying to cover something up.

Time was needed to prove once and for all that Satan was lying, mankind cannot rule themselves, and that God has the right and best way of ruling His intelligent creation.

We are right now living very close to the end of this trial being proved in God's favor, His name being cleared of reproach, and His final acting to vanquish the rebellion; thus, setting a universal precedent so God will never again have to allow rebellion in the universe.

We are living amid and seeing in all it's starkness what happens when humans try to rule themselves independent of God; sheer bedlam, confusion, and chaos which gets progressively worse and more dense in its darkness.

Mankind has experimented with every form of government and domination over other humans and all it has brought about is a snowball of misery and suffering and death for the human race.

If rebellion should dare to break out again(it won't) this bloc of time and this account on earth serves forever as a touchstone to dissuade questioning the rightfulness of God's sovereignty, and he can immediately act to quell an outbreak against Him.

Fortunately, out of God's supreme Love and wisdom, he immediately acted from the onset to provide a means to relieve mankind of suffering caused from this, and to undo all the ill effects of the rebellion and restore all things back to his original purpose.

That means was eloquently tied up in the first prophecy God uttered, which is recorded at Genesis 3:15.

My original question still stands, which I why I preferred a 21st century POV. The logic and/or what's comforting in that explanation alludes me.

The logic simply lies within understanding where we are in the stream of time, having insight into God's timetable respecting this roughly 6,000 year bloc of time where this rebellion has been active, and when all will be put back completely on track in harmony with God's universal purpose.

The comfort lies within the solution: Understanding the "sacred secret" contained within the fulfillment of the Genesis 3:15 prophecy.

The "sacred secret" is the installation of God's rulership over the earth by means of the messianic Kingdom, or government; it's a subsidiary of His universal sovereignty as He is the one who installs it and handpicked the primary ruler: the man who was identified as Jesus Christ, but is now back in Heaven, which is where that Kingdom(government) exists but will extend it's power and dominion over the earth.

That Kingdom will put a permanent end to all human rulerships and will stand forever.

It is a 21st century explanation because the unfolding began roughly 6k years ago, but the climax reaches into the 21st century and beyond.

We are living in the "last days" of this system which is not of God's intent, but the product of that original rebellion, and the global upheaval we see is evidence, as revealed in the Bible, that it's nearing it's end by way of God's intervention.

When God brings it to an end by demonstrating his universal sovereignty using His Kingdom, which will remove all wickedness and the suffering caused by it, He promises that the "meek shall inherit the earth" and "reside forever upon it" and "find their exquisite delight in the abundance of peace".

Those who willingly submit to God's rulership will get to be a part of His original purpose for mankind: to live forever here in peace and harmony with the plant and animal creation.

No more ruination of the earth will occur by way of wars, pollution, murder, violence, deforestation, destroying animal life for greedy gain, etc.

It's comforting to know we can be a part of the happy climax and inherit a earth free of wickedness and suffering and eventually receive the free gift of attaining to genetic perfection and keep living forever here as a part of God's faithful universal family; all we have to do "come to know" God and "the one" he "sent forth, Jesus Christ", actively exercise faith, and obey His rules and principles as set out the Bible.

After living so long under those peaceful conditions without sickness, misery, death, and finally using the work of our hands to the full without oppressive greedy human domination over us, we will forget about the suffering we had to endure during this wild rebellion.


Sickness and death will be a thing of the past, God demonstrated that by way of sending Jesus here to perform the miracles that demonstrated what that Kingdom will do towards the earth on a global scale after wickedness is removed.

God even promises all who died during the rebellion, both "righteous and unrighteous" will be resurrected to join those who "inherit the earth" and have an opportunity to choose to willingly submit to His loving rulership free of the ills and pervasive wicked influence which plague us now.

[And100]

As revealed in the Genesis account, In the Garden of Eden, with the first two humans as the target to aid in the original rebellion, the issue was raised regarding the rightfulness of God's right to rule mankind and His intelligent creatures.

The spirit being, whose original name is never given, but later to be called by the titles "Devil"(slanderer), and "Satan"(resister/opposer), asserted that God was withholding something good from mankind, stunting their ability to reach their full potential, by keeping them subject to His rulership and direction.

He played the ventriloquist role behind a serpent, with lies and deception, convinced Eve that she would "not die" if she disobeyed God, and that she would "become like God, knowing good and bad".


As free moral agents, intelligent creatures have the ability, via free will, to choose obey God's moral standards or disobey and suffer the consequences.

As the Creator of the universe, everything in it, and the Giver of life, God knows what's best for His creation to be happy and at peace under His loving direction and His generous providing of all their needs and desires.

Eve truly believed Satan's lie and disobeyed God, joined in Satan's rebellion, from that point allowing Satan to successfully establish a rival sovereignty with Eve, later Adam, eventually their offspring(the human race who chooses to ignore God), and later many other spirit creatures breaking free from God's rulership and in essence, actually giving their worship to Satan.

With All intelligent Creation watching this original drama unfold from the spirit realm, the question was raised and the issue was out there.

God could have vanquished the rebellion right there, killed the three, but it would have proved nothing but the fact that God is almighty in power, and likely could have raised suspicion that He was likely trying to cover something up.

Time was needed to prove once and for all that Satan was lying, mankind cannot rule themselves, and that God has the right and best way of ruling His intelligent creation.

We are right now living very close to the end of this trial being proved in God's favor, His name being cleared of reproach, and His final acting to vanquish the rebellion; thus, setting a universal precedent so God will never again have to allow rebellion in the universe.

We are living amid and seeing in all it's starkness what happens when humans try to rule themselves independent of God; sheer bedlam, confusion, and chaos which gets progressively worse and more dense in its darkness.

Mankind has experimented with every form of government and domination over other humans and all it has brought about is a snowball of misery and suffering and death for the human race.

If rebellion should dare to break out again(it won't) this bloc of time and this account on earth serves forever as a touchstone to dissuade questioning the rightfulness of God's sovereignty, and he can immediately act to quell an outbreak against Him.

Fortunately, out of God's supreme Love and wisdom, he immediately acted from the onset to provide a means to relieve mankind of suffering caused from this, and to undo all the ill effects of the rebellion and restore all things back to his original purpose.

That means was eloquently tied up in the first prophecy God uttered, which is recorded at Genesis 3:15.

My original question still stands, which I why I preferred a 21st century POV. The logic and/or what's comforting in that explanation alludes me.

The logic simply lies within understanding where we are in the stream of time, having insight into God's timetable respecting this roughly 6,000 year bloc of time where this rebellion has been active, and when all will be put back completely on track in harmony with God's universal purpose.

The comfort lies within the solution: Understanding the "sacred secret" contained within the fulfillment of the Genesis 3:15 prophecy.

The "sacred secret" is the installation of God's rulership over the earth by means of the messianic Kingdom, or government; it's a subsidiary of His universal sovereignty as He is the one who installs it and handpicked the primary ruler: the man who was identified as Jesus Christ, but is now back in Heaven, which is where that Kingdom(government) exists but will extend it's power and dominion over the earth.

That Kingdom will put a permanent end to all human rulerships and will stand forever.

It is a 21st century explanation because the unfolding began roughly 6k years ago, but the climax reaches into the 21st century and beyond.

We are living in the "last days" of this system which is not of God's intent, but the product of that original rebellion, and the global upheaval we see is evidence, as revealed in the Bible, that it's nearing it's end by way of God's intervention.

When God brings it to an end by demonstrating his universal sovereignty using His Kingdom, which will remove all wickedness and the suffering caused by it, He promises that the "meek shall inherit the earth" and "reside forever upon it" and "find their exquisite delight in the abundance of peace".

Those who willingly submit to God's rulership will get to be a part of His original purpose for mankind: to live forever here in peace and harmony with the plant and animal creation.

No more ruination of the earth will occur by way of wars, pollution, murder, violence, deforestation, destroying animal life for greedy gain, etc.

It's comforting to know we can be a part of the happy climax and inherit a earth free of wickedness and suffering and eventually receive the free gift of attaining to genetic perfection and keep living forever here as a part of God's faithful universal family; all we have to do "come to know" God and "the one" he "sent forth, Jesus Christ", actively exercise faith, and obey His rules and principles as set out the Bible.

After living so long under those peaceful conditions without sickness, misery, death, and finally using the work of our hands to the full without oppressive greedy human domination over us, we will forget about the suffering we had to endure during this wild rebellion.


Sickness and death will be a thing of the past, God demonstrated that by way of sending Jesus here to perform the miracles that demonstrated what that Kingdom will do towards the earth on a global scale after wickedness is removed.

God even promises all who died during the rebellion, both "righteous and unrighteous" will be resurrected to join those who "inherit the earth" and have an opportunity to choose to willingly submit to His loving rulership free of the ills and pervasive wicked influence which plague us now.

Forgiving the fact the 6000 year thing/Genesis holds no significance that hasn't been routinely contradicted by sound scientific "theory" (just so as to not waste time on semantics) because it's genuinely beside my point, again, the appeal of this God is just lost on me.

I just can't connect the dots, despite being raised in a genuine, practicing Christian household. Never did, from my earliest memories. If God is truly the creator of everything, he also the administrator of this strange roundabout experiment/litmus test, also of his design.

I think the idea we'll forget about suffering is both a little too convenient and a bit unsettling. The God you describe an his grand plan doesn't sound the least bit pleasant to me.

I think I'm a good, happy person. I know my child, who has no idea what the western versions of God, Jesus, religion or faith are, is a good, kind, happy person.

Frankly, holding true to ideal of being happy, good and kind in the middle of "pervasive wicked influence" strikes me as the more appealing option.

[Iron Mantis]

Forgiving the fact the 6000 year thing/Genesis holds no significance that hasn't been routinely contradicted by sound scientific "theory" (just so as to not waste time on semantics) because it's genuinely beside my point, again, the appeal of this God is just lost on me.

I just can't connect the dots, despite being raised in a genuine, practicing Christian household. Never did, from my earliest memories. If God is truly the creator of everything, he also the administrator of this strange roundabout experiment/litmus test, also of his design.

I think the idea we'll forget about suffering is both a little too convenient and a bit unsettling. The God you describe an his grand plan doesn't sound the least bit pleasant to me.

I think I'm a good, happy person. I know my child, who has no idea what the western versions of God, Jesus, religion or faith are, is a good, kind, happy person.

Frankly, holding true to ideal of being happy, good and kind in the middle of "pervasive wicked influence" strikes me as the more appealing option.

The 6,000 years is not about how long the earth or the universe existed, the Bible doesn't say, it just gives unspecified periods of time as creative "days".

That 6,000 year time period is in connection with the vindication of God's Sovereignty, being that the rebellion against God is a moral issue and has nothing to do with science.

God is the Creator, but He didn't create the rebellion; Satan and humans did. He just has merely has allowed it to exist to prove Satan a liar before all intelligent creation; thus, clearing His name of reproach, and setting a universal precedent so such a rebellion can never be allowed to exist again.

Out of love, God has dignified His intelligent creatures with free will to chose to love and obey Him; but starting with Satan and the first humans, Most have chosen to follow the path of the rebels and ignore God and do whatever they want and the results have been disastrous, but relief is on the horizon.

He is pleasant indeed if you take the time to get to know Him. Take a look at how Jesus treated humans and you will "see the father"(God almighty) also, because Jesus imitated and reflected God's personality perfectly.

He is good in that He provided a permanent solution for the rebellion which will permanently alleviate all suffering and usher in a peaceful new world where we can live forever with no sickness or sorrow; how can you beat that?

It's not just a "convenient" explanation, it's reasonable since accumulating memories of peace and delight for countless eons of time will crowd out the memories of this old system which we individually have only experienced for our short lifespan within it; 70 to 100 years if we're fortunate, or less if we are the ones who are still living when God will soon act to remove it.

Being "happy, good, and kind", according to God's standards as described in The Bible, not our own, will yield the reward of everlasting life on a peaceful earth. Nothing can compare to such a prospect, which was God's original purpose for mankind since He created us.

[And100]

He is pleasant indeed if you take the time to get to know Him.

Again, I'm neither speaking out of total ignorance. And again, the appeal isn't there.

He is good in that He provided a permanent solution for the rebellion which will permanently alleviate all suffering and usher in a peaceful new world where we can live forever with no sickness or sorrow; how can you beat that?

Eliminate the 6000 years of sickness and sorrow from the equation? Don't let children be tortured and murdered to prove a point?

Being "happy, good, and kind", according to God's standards as described in The Bible, not our own, will yield the reward of everlasting life on a peaceful earth. Nothing can compare to such a prospect, which was God's original purpose for mankind since He created us.

Everlasting life on a peaceful Earth holds zero appeal, I can say that because I have no fear of simply not existing.

I can't imagine anyone can even describe what "life" is like. Are they movies on an everlasting life on a peaceful earth? What are they about if conflict is non-existent?

Professional sports? Who gets to win the Superbowl?

Bacon and Bourbon?

Oral sex?

Which companion do I spend my time with, my current one or my deceased one? Are my children children or adults? Can I have more? Is there even relationships on an everlasting peaceful Earth?

Any experience we can relate to has human that make us curious, excited or satisfied us seems irrelevant in this world.

As I say, can't relate to it at all and the platitude that I can't understand now it but it'll be wonderful is empty rhetoric to me.

[stuporman]

The whole submit to the bible's laws and rules part is where it kind of loses it's way.

[Iron Mantis]

The whole submit to the bible's laws and rules part is where it kind of loses it's way.

If everyone followed the Bible's laws and principles as stated through Christianity, the world would peaceful and an absolute delight to live in.

Just one example: "love your neighbor as yourself". If everyone submitted to this lone command, how different would the world be?

[Iron Mantis]

He is pleasant indeed if you take the time to get to know Him.

Again, I'm neither speaking out of total ignorance. And again, the appeal isn't there.

He is good in that He provided a permanent solution for the rebellion which will permanently alleviate all suffering and usher in a peaceful new world where we can live forever with no sickness or sorrow; how can you beat that?

Eliminate the 6000 years of sickness and sorrow from the equation? Don't let children be tortured and murdered to prove a point?

Being "happy, good, and kind", according to God's standards as described in The Bible, not our own, will yield the reward of everlasting life on a peaceful earth. Nothing can compare to such a prospect, which was God's original purpose for mankind since He created us.

Everlasting life on a peaceful Earth holds zero appeal, I can say that because I have no fear of simply not existing.

I can't imagine anyone can even describe what "life" is like. Are they movies on an everlasting life on a peaceful earth? What are they about if conflict is non-existent?

Professional sports? Who gets to win the Superbowl?

Bacon and Bourbon?

Oral sex?

Which companion do I spend my time with, my current one or my deceased one? Are my children children or adults? Can I have more? Is there even relationships on an everlasting peaceful Earth?

Any experience we can relate to has human that make us curious, excited or satisfied us seems irrelevant in this world.

As I say, can't relate to it at all and the platitude that I can't understand now it but it'll be wonderful is empty rhetoric to me.

I addressed your original wanting of an explanation by way of God's revealed purpose, as set forth in the Bible. Millions find this explanation logical, reasonable, and see exactly how it makes sense; God created us, He knows what's best for us and has the right to rule us, which is only to our benefit.

These millions have been applying the practical wisdom found in the Bible and have a considerable measure of love, peace, joy, and happiness now and face the future with optimism and hope.

If the 6,000 years of suffering is removed, then as far as all intelligent creation is concerned, perhaps mankind actually CAN rule themselves successfully and actually CAN "be like God, knowing good and bad" for themselves; It was necessary to settle that issue. We now know we NEED God's direction, we simply aren't capable of running the show without Him. Anyone who has suffered and died as a result of this rebellion, whether by old age, illness, unforeseen occurrence, etc, or by man's hands, will indeed return.

It's sad it's been like this, but we have to blame the original rebels for forcing us into this situation in the first place; however, God allowed "the creation to be subjected to" this "futility, on the basis of hope". He lovingly immediately made a plan to redeem the (human)creation from this mess, and thankfully it's happy climax is finally very very close.

"Wisdom is proved righteous by its works". Mankind ruling us has proven to be to our detriment, who can argue that? So those of us who are sighing and groaning over these things place faith and hope in a better alternative: trusting in our Creator who is holding out a sure hope that no human ruler has the power or intent to deliver.

Yes there will certainly be movies, sports, good and endless varieties of food and beverage; what kinds exactly, who Knows? We do know humans will reach their full potential with greedy corporations, world leaders, and selfish gain being a thing of the past.

Things will simply be done to according to God's standards of good and bad, since it's overwhelmingly obvious that man having in his own jurisdiction the right to choose good and bad for himself has proven to be an utterly disastrous venture.

God knows what's best for our happiness, and He promises to "open His hand and satisfy the desire of every living thing". He says "“Eye has not seen and ear has not heard, nor have there been conceived in the heart of man the things that God has prepared for those who love him.” All we've known is misery, so it's difficult to imagine what life of God's intent is like, but that's no reason to dismiss the reality or beauty of it.

This alternative appeals to many who know God has the irresistible power and earnest desire to fulfill these promises; it's his unfailing purpose to do so, who can really stop Him? He has a strict timetable to make it happen. He Created the universe and life, two things we've been grasping at understanding since our existence and haven't come close to fully doing so.

Relationships will certainly exist; God is the instituter of marriage, romantic love, and the pleasure it brings. It's his purpose for perfect humans to "fill the earth", so marriage and procreation will definitely exist.

There will still be families. Children will grow to the peak of adulthood and remain at their physical peak, and us older ones will return to our peak, with no more of the breakdown the current aging process brings, which is actually the process of racing towards death the moments we are born with this genetic defect, an imperfection called "sin" which initiates the march towards death. God has promised to remove it by way of provisions which will be fully revealed in His new system on earth under His Kingdom rule.

Death dissolves the marriage bond, "til death do us part", so it would be wise to keep your current companion as you don't know how the resurrected person will feel, but the profound experience of being nonexistent in death likely changes original romantic feelings; I'm not going to be dogmatic about it.

We don't have all the details about the resurrection, so we will have to make sure we are there to behold it. We know God "is a God not of disorder, but of peace". Thus, It's reasonable to conclude people will return in an organized way that will lead to peace; people will look the same, be easily identifiable and recognizable to their loved ones, just healthy, without physical ailments or the ill effects of aging they perished with and children will return as children.

If these promises hold no appeal to you, it's unfortunate, but it's your prerogative; again we have free will to choose to be a part of it or not. God and many millions would love for you to be a part of it. Many many others are excited by this hope and they are reaching out and taking hold of it.

[stuporman]

The whole submit to the bible's laws and rules part is where it kind of loses it's way.

If everyone followed the Bible's laws and principles as stated through Christianity, the world would peaceful and an absolute delight to live in.

Just one example: "love your neighbor as yourself". If everyone submitted to this lone command, how different would the world be?

Except it was written by man, manipulated by man and argued over by man with most of the believers in the book not even following it. The whole follow the rules or be damned in eternity thing is fear mongering to control people. It's ironically so unbiblical!

[Iron Mantis]

The whole submit to the bible's laws and rules part is where it kind of loses it's way.

If everyone followed the Bible's laws and principles as stated through Christianity, the world would peaceful and an absolute delight to live in.

Just one example: "love your neighbor as yourself". If everyone submitted to this lone command, how different would the world be?

Except it was written by man, manipulated by man and argued over by man with most of the believers in the book not even following it. The whole follow the rules or be damned in eternity thing is fear mongering to control people. It's ironically so unbiblical!

The Bible was "inspired by God", as man was "moved by" God's applied energy, or active force. That's why even though God inspired many different men from all walks of life to pen His thoughts, many whom have never even met each other, it contains an interweaving harmonious theme with scores of corresponding prophecies, none of which have ever failed.

Just some examples of proof of the Bible being divinely inspired are scientific facts that were penned hundreds and in some instances, thousands of years before scientists finally caught up by way of modern discoveries.

The hallmark of divine inspiration is prophecy though. Many many prophecies and their fulfillment to the tee is contained within the Bible.

Prophecies about exactly when the Messiah would appear, exactly how he would live, his activities, where he would be born, be treated, how long his ministry would last before he was killed, exactly how he would be betrayed, and so many other things are throughout the so-called "old testament" were penned hundreds of years before he was even born.

Many prophecies about Empires and kings that would rise, fall, who they would conquered by, and even in one instance, the exact name of a king who would conquer Babylon was penned 200 years before he was even born.

There's so many more prophecies, many even in their fulfillment right NOW, that I cannot possibly name them all right now. I need some sleep lol.

God has the ability to preserve His written word, so any alterations by shady men have been weeded out. The Bible is the most widely circulated book on the earth and has withstood waves and waves of persecution over the centuries after it's being completed.

Those who "believe" in the Bible and don't actually live by its teachings can't truly believe, or they would exercise faith by applying it's teachings.

The "eternal damnation in a fiery hell" is one of many unscriptural doctrines that apostate Christendom stole from philosophies and pagan religions to scare members into their control for monetary gain, political influence and power. Such a teaching is found nowhere in the Bible and true Christians don't subscribe to that extra-biblical idea.

God has judged and will soon execute judgement upon the religions peddling His Word, slaughtering innocent people over the centuries and misrepresenting Him. In fact there is a major prophecy on the horizon of being fulfilled which states that He will maneuver political powers to unite for the purpose of entirely removing false religion from the world scene, under their understanding that they are actually acting in their own interests of bringing about global "peace and security".

[And100]

I addressed your original wanting of an explanation by way of God's revealed purpose, as set forth in the Bible. Millions find this explanation logical, reasonable, and see exactly how it makes sense;

They just can't articulate it.

God created us, He knows what's best for us and has the right to rule us

That we think a being capable to creating everything wants to "rule us" just demonstrates out inability to think of ourselves as anything but the center of the universe. Even IF we all accepted his instruction, God could have made us SMARTER. Given us the ability to truly explore and understand the vast universe he created. To give us a perspective beyond out finite, petty existence.

If he "made" us he made us just dumb enough to be able to tricked and seduced by simple lies he would not. It's all his design that we can be seduced. He imposed limitations on our ability to see, understand, and imagine, not giving us anything approximating his own abilities. We're stupid, ignorant and limited in comparison to him BY Christian's own definition of him, again by his design.

Again, the appeal of this premise remains lost on me. Love me? Make me your partner, your equal. Gimme an IQ of 500 or 5000 or 50000 rather than 100-something.

These millions have been applying the practical wisdom found in the Bible and have a considerable measure of love, peace, joy, and happiness now and face the future with optimism and hope.

Except they seem very, very uncomfortable in the only world they have to live in.

God knows what's best for our happiness

And he dangles it like a carrot on a stick in front of you. And some find comfort in this game. Again, inexplicable.

Relationships will certainly exist; God is the instituter of marriage, romantic love, and the pleasure it brings. It's his purpose for perfect humans to "fill the earth", so marriage and procreation will definitely exist.

But with limitations, right? May I assume the endgame is homosexual people will no longer be so?

If these promises hold no appeal to you, it's unfortunate, but it's your prerogative; again we have free will to choose to be a part of it or not. God and many millions would love for you to be a part of it. Many many others are excited by this hope and they are reaching out and taking hold of it.

I'll say it again. None of you do a very good job of explaining the appeal.

[Iron Mantis]

I addressed your original wanting of an explanation by way of God's revealed purpose, as set forth in the Bible. Millions find this explanation logical, reasonable, and see exactly how it makes sense;

They just can't articulate it.

God created us, He knows what's best for us and has the right to rule us

That we think a being capable to creating everything wants to "rule us" just demonstrates out inability to think of ourselves as anything but the center of the universe. Even IF we all accepted his instruction, God could have made us SMARTER. Given us the ability to truly explore and understand the vast universe he created. To give us a perspective beyond out finite, petty existence.

If he "made" us he made us just dumb enough to be able to tricked and seduced by simple lies he would not. It's all his design that we can be seduced. He imposed limitations on our ability to see, understand, and imagine, not giving us anything approximating his own abilities. We're stupid, ignorant and limited in comparison to him BY Christian's own definition of him, again by his design.

Again, the appeal of this premise remains lost on me. Love me? Make me your partner, your equal. Gimme an IQ of 500 or 5000 or 50000 rather than 100-something.

These millions have been applying the practical wisdom found in the Bible and have a considerable measure of love, peace, joy, and happiness now and face the future with optimism and hope.

Except they seem very, very uncomfortable in the only world they have to live in.

God knows what's best for our happiness

And he dangles it like a carrot on a stick in front of you. And some find comfort in this game. Again, inexplicable.

Relationships will certainly exist; God is the instituter of marriage, romantic love, and the pleasure it brings. It's his purpose for perfect humans to "fill the earth", so marriage and procreation will definitely exist.

But with limitations, right? May I assume the endgame is homosexual people will no longer be so?

If these promises hold no appeal to you, it's unfortunate, but it's your prerogative; again we have free will to choose to be a part of it or not. God and many millions would love for you to be a part of it. Many many others are excited by this hope and they are reaching out and taking hold of it.

I'll say it again. None of you do a very good job of explaining the appeal.

God created the first humans as heterosexuals and commanded them to procreate and populate the earth with perfect humans. Was his intention on eventually having perfect, intelligent, humans spread throughout the universe? It doesn't say because we are still stuck in step one, but time will tell. Either way, homosexual inclination wasn't of God's intent but is likely a byproduct of imperfection, which will be removed from our genes.

Yes we are uncomfortable living in a dangerous, terrifying, violent world gone mad, so we look intently for God to fix it.

Wanting to be equal to God is the problem that got us into this mess in the first place, instead of being content with our position of being a creation, and not gods ourselves.

Humans aren't created as robots; we are endowed with free will. No matter how intelligent one is, each one is being "drawn out and enticed by HIS OWN desire". We are imperfect now, naturally inclined towards wrongdoing, now with legions of invisible wicked spirits driving mankind towards more and more wickedness, which compounds our likeliness to transgress God's standards, but God has always had a provision for the forgiveness of sins, and will remove the evil influence soon.

PERFECT creatures do have the ability to easily and readily perfectly reflect God's personality and moral standards. Even then, all have the ability to choose to do otherwise; Satan made that choice, later some other spirits joined him, and so did Adam and Eve.

Adam, Eve, and Jesus were the only perfect humans, but we don't have enough information on Adam and Eve to gauge their IQ's. Eve desired to become a god herself so she willingly chose to believe Satan's deception. Adam was NOT deceived in any way, but simply loved Eve more than God so he chose to join her. Jesus never transgressed God's standards, even under persecution, Satanic temptation, and torture, and evidence shows he was more intelligent than, and wiser than King Solomon, who is known to be the wisest man to ever live; he thus proved perfect creatures, namely humans, have the ability to perfectly reflect God under any sort of temptation or duress, and are not "dumb" at all.

In God's new system of things here on earth, we have no idea just how intelligent we will become once we reach perfection, again we have to wait and see. We only have Jesus as the real example for what a faithful, perfect human mind can do. One thing is for sure, there is a huge difference between a perfect mind and an imperfect one. So we all who have this hope to be there believe we will indeed reach an unknown peak of intelligence, but still needing to be subject to God's direction because he will always be far more intelligent than us, and humble persons don't mind such a reality and prospect at all, but actually desire it because we trust our Creator.

The prospect of studying the universe and creating things with perfect minds and unlimited lifespans is actually a main feature of this hope. The absence of greedy corporations and divisive elements such a pride, selfishness, nationalism, and prejudice, will allow human minds to unite in our efforts accomplish untold wonders; God says "nothing will be impossible" for man to creatively achieve with such unity.

It's your opinion that this appeal isn't well articulated, or explained, but countless other people agree that it is, can easily grasp it, fully understand it, have thoroughly investigated it, and consequently put unwavering faith in it.

It's unfortunate if you can't because the hope is truly "good news"; but again that's your choice, and we are entitled to our own opinions.

[Deeeez Knicks]

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXXIXNP_7NQ[/youtube]

[KnickFan33]

Debating theology in a science and philosophy thread is kind of pointless from either side don't you think? Trying to get one side to totally embrace the other's point of view is an exercise in futility.

Just agree to disagree and move on.

[Vash]

I think Theology is fine in this thread.

[moocow007]

The whole submit to the bible's laws and rules part is where it kind of loses it's way.

If everyone followed the Bible's laws and principles as stated through Christianity, the world would peaceful and an absolute delight to live in.

Just one example: "love your neighbor as yourself". If everyone submitted to this lone command, how different would the world be?

But that's not reality. The thing that makes humans humans is their ability to choose to do whatever they want, right or wrong, agreeable or not. To grow, to fail, to achieve through strife and hardship that usually others (but sometimes themselves) inflict on them.

[moocow007]

Debating theology in a science and philosophy thread is kind of pointless from either side don't you think? Trying to get one side to totally embrace the other's point of view is an exercise in futility.

Just agree to disagree and move on.

That's being human.