Is Wall Top 5 PG?

dobrojim · Post #521 » by **dobrojim** » Fri Sep 11, 2015 5:00 pm

nate33 wrote: Paul has a real argument for being the best PG of all time after Magic (and Oscar, if you count him). His numbers are that good.

Stockton?

Great assist, A:TO, shooting, defense...no, he didn't rebound like Magic/Oscar but he was right there
among the GoaT. I think I would take Stockton over CP, prime v prime.

tontoz · Post #522 » by **tontoz** » Fri Sep 11, 2015 11:31 pm

dobrojim wrote:
nate33 wrote: Paul has a real argument for being the best PG of all time after Magic (and Oscar, if you count him). His numbers are that good.

Stockton?

Great assist, A:TO, shooting, defense...no, he didn't rebound like Magic/Oscar but he was right there
among the GoaT. I think I would take Stockton over CP, prime v prime.

Paul's career assist/to ratio is actually slightly better than Stockton's and Paul had consistently weaker teamates. I think Paul is a better scorer with more takeover ability than Stockton. They are pretty close but i can certainly see an argument for Paul.

I take both over Isiah.

dckingsfan · Post #523 » by **dckingsfan** » Fri Nov 6, 2015 3:05 pm

Very small sample size thus far... but Curry and Westbrook are playing out of their heads. Bledsoe and a slimed down Lowry seem to be doing pretty well right now.

mhd · Post #524 » by **mhd** » Fri Nov 6, 2015 3:45 pm

I'd take Stockton & Curry any day over Paul. Stockton could have scored more if he wanted, but he ran the Sloan system to perfection. Curry is a game breaker, and his scoring (and shooting) gives him the edge over CP3.

stevemcqueen1 · Post #525 » by **stevemcqueen1** » Fri Nov 6, 2015 4:06 pm

I don't really know what to make of Oscar or Magic. I have a suspicion they wouldn't be considered PGs in today's NBA. But that is how they are commonly defined.

Too hard to include current players in a discussion of historical rankings. Chris Paul wins an MVP and championship this year and that completely changes his legacy. Steph Curry blows out his knee and goes the way of Derrick Rose and that changes it too.

Ranking historical players, I think it goes:

1.) Magic
2.) Oscar
3.) Isiah
4.) Stockton
5.) Kidd
6.) Clyde
7.) Cousy
8.) Nash
9.) Glove
10.) Tiny Archibald

I find Cousy is a little tough to rank. If he played in the 2000's, I'm not sure he'd be all that special. But in his era, he was something new and special.

I think Lenny Wilkens, Pearl, and Dave Bing could also be ranked #10. Kevin Johnson would be in consideration too, but I don't think he played enough games to be in over those guys.

I also don't think Jerry West should be considered a PG. He's a SG IMO.

stevemcqueen1 · Post #526 » by **stevemcqueen1** » Fri Nov 6, 2015 4:12 pm

I want to chip in that I think peak CP3 was absolutely a better player than peak Stockton was. Much, much better.

But I also think CP3's career took a downward turn after his meniscus injury, and he's never gotten back to the All Time Great caliber level he was playing at around 2008.

That's what I mean about not knowing how to rank current players in historical standards until their careers are over. At that point, CP3 looked like he could legitimately go down as the best PG ever if he remained at that level of play.

Dat2U · Post #527 » by **Dat2U** » Fri Nov 6, 2015 4:13 pm

Curry is currently playing at a level unseen before through 5 games. Anyone take a gander at his numbers on basketball-reference.com? They are absolutely insane. 47.0 PER? 149 ORtg on 33.0% usage!!! WS/48 of .603!!!!! LeBron & Jordan WS/48s have consistently been in the high .200s low .300s. Curry's BPM is 22.5. Jordan & LeBron are consistently in the 10-13 range. Curry is dominating right now like he's playing on the rookie level of NBA 2K.

dckingsfan · Post #528 » by **dckingsfan** » Fri Nov 6, 2015 4:46 pm

Yep, as far as PGs go - it is Curry then everyone else. Could we have drafted him?

Does he have a shot to replace Magic at the top of the list?

stevemcqueen1 · Post #529 » by **stevemcqueen1** » Fri Nov 6, 2015 5:01 pm

Probably not. Magic is one of the five greatest players of All Time IMO.

dobrojim · Post #530 » by **dobrojim** » Fri Nov 6, 2015 5:01 pm

quibble

Earl wasn't a PG. I don't think Bing was either.

Magic played all positions at various times if only briefly for some. But when the starters
were introduced at the beginning of games, it seems pretty clear that the majority of the
time, he was the PG. Loved Magic. He could do it all. But I loved Stockton too. Tough, smart
highly skilled and IIRC, still the all time assist king which is partly a function of longevity.

Tiny might ought to be more highly ranked. Being scoring leader and assist leader in the same
season is pretty heady stuff. I don't recall his teams ever being very good which you could use
to argue in either direction, could have been more highly regarded if he had won a chip or
why didn't he win one if he was so great.

Dat2U · Post #531 » by **Dat2U** » Fri Nov 6, 2015 5:04 pm

dckingsfan wrote:Yep, as far as PGs go - it is Curry then everyone else. Could we have drafted him?

Does he have a shot to replace Magic at the top of the list?

Curry is playing like he's the GOAT right now. I'm sure he's gotta cool off but my goodness, I don't think I've ever seen a better 5 game stretch.

Yes we could have had him...but Ernie thought Randy Foye & Mike Miller could help our roster immediately. :lol:

How crazy if I had gotten my wish on draft night in 2009: Trading the 5th pick for the 6th & 20th and drafting Curry & Lawson.

tontoz · Post #532 » by **tontoz** » Fri Nov 6, 2015 5:05 pm

Dat2U wrote:Curry is currently playing at a level unseen before through 5 games. Anyone take a gander at his numbers on basketball-reference.com? They are absolutely insane. 47.0 PER? 149 ORtg on 33.0%!!! WS/48 of .603!!!!! LeBron & Jordan WS/48s have consistently been in the high .200s low .300s. Curry's BPM is 22.5. Jordan & LeBron are consistently in the 10-13 range. Curry is dominating right now like he's playing on the rookie level of NBA 2K.

36 ppg in 32 minutes with a TS of 76%.

dckingsfan · Post #533 » by **dckingsfan** » Fri Nov 6, 2015 5:07 pm

Dat2U wrote:
dckingsfan wrote:Yep, as far as PGs go - it is Curry then everyone else. Could we have drafted him?

Does he have a shot to replace Magic at the top of the list?

Curry is playing like he's the GOAT right now. I'm sure he's gotta cool off but my goodness, I don't think I've ever seen a better 5 game stretch.

Yes we could have had him...but Ernie thought Randy Foye & Mike Miller could help our roster immediately.

How crazy if I had gotten my wish on draft night in 2009: Trading the 5th pick for the 6th & 20th and drafting Curry & Lawson.

That would have been amazing...

Kanyewest · Post #534 » by **Kanyewest** » Fri Nov 6, 2015 5:19 pm

After watching NBA classic of game 6 of the NBA finals from 1998, I was unimpressed with Stockton. 10 points off of 10 shots. 5 assists and 3 turnovers. Perhaps Chicago's defense could do that to opposing players and Stockton did have a bad back. Still, I didn't get the sense I was watching one of the top 5 point guard of all time. I suppose I must have just caught Stockton in a bad game. If Stockton had played better, Utah could have won it all especially considering that Scottie Pippen was playing with an injured back.

milellie111 · Post #535 » by **milellie111** » Fri Nov 6, 2015 5:21 pm

Dat2U wrote:
dckingsfan wrote:Yep, as far as PGs go - it is Curry then everyone else. Could we have drafted him?

Does he have a shot to replace Magic at the top of the list?

Curry is playing like he's the GOAT right now. I'm sure he's gotta cool off but my goodness, I don't think I've ever seen a better 5 game stretch.

Yes we could have had him...but Ernie thought Randy Foye & Mike Miller could help our roster immediately.

How crazy if I had gotten my wish on draft night in 2009: Trading the 5th pick for the 6th & 20th and drafting Curry & Lawson.

But I think most will take a Wall/Beal/Durant trio over Curry/Thompson/Barnes.

dckingsfan · Post #536 » by **dckingsfan** » Fri Nov 6, 2015 5:28 pm

milellie111 wrote:
Dat2U wrote:
dckingsfan wrote:Yep, as far as PGs go - it is Curry then everyone else. Could we have drafted him?

Does he have a shot to replace Magic at the top of the list?

Curry is playing like he's the GOAT right now. I'm sure he's gotta cool off but my goodness, I don't think I've ever seen a better 5 game stretch.

Yes we could have had him...but Ernie thought Randy Foye & Mike Miller could help our roster immediately.

How crazy if I had gotten my wish on draft night in 2009: Trading the 5th pick for the 6th & 20th and drafting Curry & Lawson.

But I think most will take a Wall/Beal/Durant trio over Curry/Thompson/Barnes.

Wall/Beal/Durant = we really hope!
Curry/Thompson/Barnes/Green = Reality with a championship in their pocket.

So no, most NBA fans wouldn't take Wall/Beal/Durant.

Period

Chocolate City Jordanaire · Post #537 » by **Chocolate City Jordanaire** » Fri Nov 6, 2015 5:42 pm

Curry is the best shooter ever.

AFM · Post #538 » by **AFM** » Fri Nov 6, 2015 6:04 pm

No, that's Peter North. Bro could shoot for days on end.

Post #539 » by **Ruzious** » Fri Nov 6, 2015 6:20 pm

Dat2U wrote:Curry is currently playing at a level unseen before through 5 games. Anyone take a gander at his numbers on basketball-reference.com? They are absolutely insane. 47.0 PER? 149 ORtg on 33.0% usage!!! WS/48 of .603!!!!! LeBron & Jordan WS/48s have consistently been in the high .200s low .300s. Curry's BPM is 22.5. Jordan & LeBron are consistently in the 10-13 range. Curry is dominating right now like he's playing on the rookie level of NBA 2K.

47.0 PER? That's like sci-fi for a guard. Not sure even Oscar Robertson or that Jordan guy ever did that for a 5 game period.

Induveca · Post #540 » by **Induveca** » Fri Nov 6, 2015 6:31 pm

Dat2U wrote:
dckingsfan wrote:Yep, as far as PGs go - it is Curry then everyone else. Could we have drafted him?

Does he have a shot to replace Magic at the top of the list?

Curry is playing like he's the GOAT right now. I'm sure he's gotta cool off but my goodness, I don't think I've ever seen a better 5 game stretch.

Yes we could have had him...but Ernie thought Randy Foye & Mike Miller could help our roster immediately.

How crazy if I had gotten my wish on draft night in 2009: Trading the 5th pick for the 6th & 20th and drafting Curry & Lawson.

Again though, if it wasn't traded the consensus pick was Rubio. Wouldn't have happened regardless.