Grunfeld a Great GM. Proves Doubters Wrong

[nate33]

These are exciting times to be a Wizards fan. This is NOT the time for pessimism. Grunfeld has money to play with and coming up on one of the greatest free agency classes in history. No doubt he's going all in to improve this team substantially. We are already a 4th or 5th seed eastern conference playoff team. By adding a superstar, we are instantly contenders.

Now is no the time to abort, now is the time to support.

Let's not break our wrists patting EG on the back. Something like 26 teams will have max cap room this summer. It's an idiosyncrasy of the cap, not a series of masterful moves by EG.

With so much money chasing so few free agents, I'm not particularly excited about the likely results. If we don't land Durant, chances are, we'll end up overpaying a marginal player.

Don't get me wrong, I'm glad EG at least had the competence to put us in position for Durant, but it's still somewhat of a long shot. There's no reason to be particularly excited about EG's performance unless he closes the deal.

[MikeTheKid]

Financially savvy as well, if you look at the teams projected cap entering into one of the biggest free agency classes in a while. Wall's contract is an absolute steal. Not rushing to give Beal a max deal is smart.

Some GM's are great drafters, but falter in the other above mentioned areas.

Financially savvy, more like Ted's a cheapskate!!!

Do you have proof of GMs who falter in other areas???

[milellie111]

Financially savvy as well, if you look at the teams projected cap entering into one of the biggest free agency classes in a while. Wall's contract is an absolute steal. Not rushing to give Beal a max deal is smart.

Some GM's are great drafters, but falter in the other above mentioned areas.

Financially savvy, more like Ted's a cheapskate!!!

Do you have proof of GMs who falter in other areas???

Billy King - New Jersey Nets

Don Nelson - Dallas Mavericks

Take a look at their moves.

[milellie111]

These are exciting times to be a Wizards fan. This is NOT the time for pessimism. Grunfeld has money to play with and coming up on one of the greatest free agency classes in history. No doubt he's going all in to improve this team substantially. We are already a 4th or 5th seed eastern conference playoff team. By adding a superstar, we are instantly contenders.

Now is no the time to abort, now is the time to support.

Let's not break our wrists patting EG on the back. Something like 26 teams will have max cap room this summer. It's an idiosyncrasy of the cap, not a series of masterful moves by EG.

With so much money chasing so few free agents, I'm not particularly excited about the likely results. If we don't land Durant, chances are, we'll end up overpaying a marginal player.

Don't get me wrong, I'm glad EG at least had the competence to put us in position for Durant, but it's still somewhat of a long shot. There's no reason to be particularly excited about EG's performance unless he closes the deal.

Not landing Durant is not the end. Don't forget about our solid core in the backcourt, top 2 in the league. Also a maturing Otto who will continue to grow each season and Gortat still locked down at center. We don't even have to add a "superstar". If we miss out, we can continue to build upon what is here.

[milellie111]

Sure, teams like Golden State and San Antonio build their teams entirely via the draft. Nothing wrong with that but there are other successful ways to build a team. Grunfeld happens to make up for missed draft picks with great free agency additions and trades.

[nate33]

These are exciting times to be a Wizards fan. This is NOT the time for pessimism. Grunfeld has money to play with and coming up on one of the greatest free agency classes in history. No doubt he's going all in to improve this team substantially. We are already a 4th or 5th seed eastern conference playoff team. By adding a superstar, we are instantly contenders.

Now is no the time to abort, now is the time to support.

Let's not break our wrists patting EG on the back. Something like 26 teams will have max cap room this summer. It's an idiosyncrasy of the cap, not a series of masterful moves by EG.

With so much money chasing so few free agents, I'm not particularly excited about the likely results. If we don't land Durant, chances are, we'll end up overpaying a marginal player.

Don't get me wrong, I'm glad EG at least had the competence to put us in position for Durant, but it's still somewhat of a long shot. There's no reason to be particularly excited about EG's performance unless he closes the deal.

Not landing Durant is not the end. Don't forget about our solid core in the backcourt, top 2 in the league. Also a maturing Otto who will continue to grow each season and Gortat still locked down at center. We don't even have to add a "superstar". If we miss out, we can continue to build upon what is here.

If we don't land a star or superstar in free agency, our team is pretty much capped out at 45-50 wins. Wall is close to his peak. Porter and Beal still have some room to grow, but that's going to be offset by the continued decline of Gortat, Humphries and Nene.

[milellie111]

Convincing wins without Beal shows the depth this team has and guys willing to step up into big roles.The Bucks are no slouch but much improved with guys young, athletic and confident. Porter is taking a leap this year faster than I imagined.

[closg00]

At 100 pages it is time to lock this trolls thread.

[milellie111]

Let's not break our wrists patting EG on the back. Something like 26 teams will have max cap room this summer. It's an idiosyncrasy of the cap, not a series of masterful moves by EG.

With so much money chasing so few free agents, I'm not particularly excited about the likely results. If we don't land Durant, chances are, we'll end up overpaying a marginal player.

Don't get me wrong, I'm glad EG at least had the competence to put us in position for Durant, but it's still somewhat of a long shot. There's no reason to be particularly excited about EG's performance unless he closes the deal.

Not landing Durant is not the end. Don't forget about our solid core in the backcourt, top 2 in the league. Also a maturing Otto who will continue to grow each season and Gortat still locked down at center. We don't even have to add a "superstar". If we miss out, we can continue to build upon what is here.

If we don't land a star or superstar in free agency, our team is pretty much capped out at 45-50 wins. Wall is close to his peak. Porter and Beal still have some room to grow, but that's going to be offset by the continued decline of Gortat, Humphries and Nene.

Isn't it a bit unfair to expect a GM to deliver a championship contender within a 5 year rebuild window? Especially considering the 3 draft picks the team is built around have not fully reached their potential? Wall has not peaked. Beal is still taking leaps and Porter is just coming into his own. Nene was never in the future plans with this current core. He comes off the books next year. Gortat is a young 31 year old physically with low mileage for someone his age. He definitely has another 4 years of productivity left in him.

[DANNYLANDOVER]

So you include the year we drafted John, then you skip the infamous 2011 draft, then pick it up again the year Brad was drafted. KO could be Ernie's first 1st round "get" outside the lottery in many, many tries.

For starters, that's 6 years not 4 years.

In those 6 drafts, we've owned 17 picks, including #1 overall and 2 #3 overalls. Lets leave out those 3 picks, which I think anyone will agree are awfully likely to turn into good players (although it's true that there are exceptions). How'd we do w/ the other 14 picks.

2010
Seraphin #17. A sensible pick, but he never developed, and we let him walk.
Booker #23, a good pick but we let him walk too, negating the value pick
N'diaye #56. No reflection on Ernie that he didn't work out. We've gotten nothing out of that draft but the single #1 pick of John Wall, which came to us by luck. Not pinning a medal on Ernie's chest for that luck.

2011:
Jan Vesely
Chris Singleton
Shelvin Mack
Yikes!

Here are a few trios we could have had instead:
Kawhi Leonard, Kenneth Faried & Chandler Parsons.
Or, Klay Thompson, Tobias Harris & John Leuer.
Or, Nikola Vucevic, Donatas Motiejunas & Lavoy Allen.
Or, Bismack Biyombo, Nikola Mirotic & E'Twaun Moore.
Or Alec Burks, Iman Shumpert & Isaiah Thomas.
Or Reggie Jackson, Jimmy Butler & some other guy.
Some of the best young players in the league came out of this draft, but Ernie managed a complete disaster. We got no one.

2012:
Tomas Satoransky --
Now -- according to Millie -- we are to already say Satoransky was a terrific pick by our fearless leader. Even though 4 seasons later, he is still not a Washington Wizard, and we don't actually *know* he will be one, let alone do we know whether he'll be good, or how good, if he does become one.

Jae Crowder, Draymond Green, Khris Middleton & Will Barton -- all of whom are now proven young players who have been signed to big-time long-term contracts -- were on the board.

Oh, we also had the #46 pick, which we could have used to grab Kyle O'Quinn -- he'd look pretty good in a Wizards uni right now, don't you think? -- except that we threw that pick in on the Okariza trade, which helped build the team as follows: (zero, zip, blank).

2013:
Glen Rice III. And we traded up to make sure not to miss him. What a move.

2014:
No R1 pick, because we had to trade it away in order to have someone to start at C, cuz that brilliant Okariza team-building move left us w/ a previously injured Center who soon was injured again! What a surprise that was, huh? Thank God we got a guy who would have been available as a FA a few months later, huh?

Jordan Clarkson. Wow, Ernie picked one of the rising young stars in the league! Great job... except, uh oh, we picked him for the Lakers in return for a month of free hamburgers.

2015
Oubre -- kid has a lot of potential. Might turn out to be an excellent player. Was a good pick. Finally. Signal fireworks display. what a great gm.

Sure, I understand the drafting may not have gone the way that most would have liked over the years especially with the missed picks. But ALL teams miss out on picks, especially if guys aren't clear cut superstars. GM's watch tape and analyze scouting reports and it's easy to throw stones after the fact years later. How are you sure that Kawhi Leonard would have even been the same player with the Wizards in a different system? How do you know that he is not just perfectly fit for the spurs? How do you know that his excellent play has not been excelled by playing alongside 3 hall of famers and one of the greatest coaches of all time?

Hitting on draft picks alone does not make you a great GM. Perhaps Grunfelds drafting could have been better, there's no denying based on the picks that didn't work out, but when you take into account his entire body of work, it's hard to argue that he's a talented GM. The guy owns teams in trades.

Javale Mcgee for Nene - Denver owned

Rashard Lewis for Trevor Ariza - New Orleans owned

Andre Miller for Ramon Sessions - Sacramento owned

Emeka Okafor for Marcin Gortat - Phoenix owned

2nd round pick for Kris Humphris - Boston owned

The guy puts in some of the best free agency work you'll see in the league WITHOUT overpaying. Guy's he's able to bring in dirt cheap for short term deals and end up becoming contributors: Temple, Gooden, Pierce.

Financially savvy as well, if you look at the teams projected cap entering into one of the biggest free agency classes in a while. Wall's contract is an absolute steal. Not rushing to give Beal a max deal is smart.

Some GM's are great drafters, but falter in the other above mentioned areas.

I think you're missing a tiny little detail in all that ownage => draft picks

[milellie111]

At 100 pages it is time to lock this trolls thread.

How am I a troll and why does this thread need to be locked when there's a lot more discussion and convincing arguments going in this thread versus the Countdown to Ernie Grunfeld Firing thread? Perhaps that should be locked because Grunfeld is not going anywhere anytime soon. Can't fire a guy especially looking at the past 5 years and upcoming free agency. Neither you nor your henchmen have proven the title of this thread false. The research and statistics posted in here are slanted with an obvious one sided agenda, while ignoring the positive stats and recent success of the franchise. Grunfeld is the best GM the Wizards/Bullets have had in decades. Hard for me to see a few years back when the Wizards were winning 19 games. But those years are now a thing of the past.

I'm actually all for making this thread a sticky on this board. Who knew this would get to 100 pages on a board dominated by management haters. But even in the midst of the lynch mob on here, there are a few who've stepped off the ledge and can appreciate this current Wizards movement

[milellie111]

For starters, that's 6 years not 4 years.

In those 6 drafts, we've owned 17 picks, including #1 overall and 2 #3 overalls. Lets leave out those 3 picks, which I think anyone will agree are awfully likely to turn into good players (although it's true that there are exceptions). How'd we do w/ the other 14 picks.

2010
Seraphin #17. A sensible pick, but he never developed, and we let him walk.
Booker #23, a good pick but we let him walk too, negating the value pick
N'diaye #56. No reflection on Ernie that he didn't work out. We've gotten nothing out of that draft but the single #1 pick of John Wall, which came to us by luck. Not pinning a medal on Ernie's chest for that luck.

2011:
Jan Vesely
Chris Singleton
Shelvin Mack
Yikes!

Here are a few trios we could have had instead:
Kawhi Leonard, Kenneth Faried & Chandler Parsons.
Or, Klay Thompson, Tobias Harris & John Leuer.
Or, Nikola Vucevic, Donatas Motiejunas & Lavoy Allen.
Or, Bismack Biyombo, Nikola Mirotic & E'Twaun Moore.
Or Alec Burks, Iman Shumpert & Isaiah Thomas.
Or Reggie Jackson, Jimmy Butler & some other guy.
Some of the best young players in the league came out of this draft, but Ernie managed a complete disaster. We got no one.

2012:
Tomas Satoransky --
Now -- according to Millie -- we are to already say Satoransky was a terrific pick by our fearless leader. Even though 4 seasons later, he is still not a Washington Wizard, and we don't actually *know* he will be one, let alone do we know whether he'll be good, or how good, if he does become one.

Jae Crowder, Draymond Green, Khris Middleton & Will Barton -- all of whom are now proven young players who have been signed to big-time long-term contracts -- were on the board.

Oh, we also had the #46 pick, which we could have used to grab Kyle O'Quinn -- he'd look pretty good in a Wizards uni right now, don't you think? -- except that we threw that pick in on the Okariza trade, which helped build the team as follows: (zero, zip, blank).

2013:
Glen Rice III. And we traded up to make sure not to miss him. What a move.

2014:
No R1 pick, because we had to trade it away in order to have someone to start at C, cuz that brilliant Okariza team-building move left us w/ a previously injured Center who soon was injured again! What a surprise that was, huh? Thank God we got a guy who would have been available as a FA a few months later, huh?

Jordan Clarkson. Wow, Ernie picked one of the rising young stars in the league! Great job... except, uh oh, we picked him for the Lakers in return for a month of free hamburgers.

2015
Oubre -- kid has a lot of potential. Might turn out to be an excellent player. Was a good pick. Finally. Signal fireworks display. what a great gm.

Sure, I understand the drafting may not have gone the way that most would have liked over the years especially with the missed picks. But ALL teams miss out on picks, especially if guys aren't clear cut superstars. GM's watch tape and analyze scouting reports and it's easy to throw stones after the fact years later. How are you sure that Kawhi Leonard would have even been the same player with the Wizards in a different system? How do you know that he is not just perfectly fit for the spurs? How do you know that his excellent play has not been excelled by playing alongside 3 hall of famers and one of the greatest coaches of all time?

Hitting on draft picks alone does not make you a great GM. Perhaps Grunfelds drafting could have been better, there's no denying based on the picks that didn't work out, but when you take into account his entire body of work, it's hard to argue that he's a talented GM. The guy owns teams in trades.

Javale Mcgee for Nene - Denver owned

Rashard Lewis for Trevor Ariza - New Orleans owned

Andre Miller for Ramon Sessions - Sacramento owned

Emeka Okafor for Marcin Gortat - Phoenix owned

2nd round pick for Kris Humphris - Boston owned

The guy puts in some of the best free agency work you'll see in the league WITHOUT overpaying. Guy's he's able to bring in dirt cheap for short term deals and end up becoming contributors: Temple, Gooden, Pierce.

Financially savvy as well, if you look at the teams projected cap entering into one of the biggest free agency classes in a while. Wall's contract is an absolute steal. Not rushing to give Beal a max deal is smart.

Some GM's are great drafters, but falter in the other above mentioned areas.

I think you're missing a tiny little detail in all that ownage => draft picks

I mentioned that drafts could have been better. However, Wall, Beal and Porter make up for those that didn't work out. You don't get rid of a guy AFTER he's cleaned up and turns money.

[closg00]

Not landing Durant is not the end. Don't forget about our solid core in the backcourt, top 2 in the league. Also a maturing Otto who will continue to grow each season and Gortat still locked down at center. We don't even have to add a "superstar". If we miss out, we can continue to build upon what is here.

If we don't land a star or superstar in free agency, our team is pretty much capped out at 45-50 wins. Wall is close to his peak. Porter and Beal still have some room to grow, but that's going to be offset by the continued decline of Gortat, Humphries and Nene.

Isn't it a bit unfair to expect a GM to deliver a championship contender within a 5 year rebuild window? Especially considering the 3 draft picks the team is built around have not fully reached their potential? Wall has not peaked. Beal is still taking leaps and Porter is just coming into his own. Nene was never in the future plans with this current core. He comes off the books next year. Gortat is a young 31 year old physically with low mileage for someone his age. He definitely has another 4 years of productivity left in him.

Not at all, Golden State was able to go from a 26 win season to an NBA championship within 5 years. How and why? Because they didn't BLOW DRAFT PICKS like Ernie Grunfeld. Not being able to draft well has set the franchise back years and years. Case closed.

[DANNYLANDOVER]

Sure, I understand the drafting may not have gone the way that most would have liked over the years especially with the missed picks. But ALL teams miss out on picks, especially if guys aren't clear cut superstars. GM's watch tape and analyze scouting reports and it's easy to throw stones after the fact years later. How are you sure that Kawhi Leonard would have even been the same player with the Wizards in a different system? How do you know that he is not just perfectly fit for the spurs? How do you know that his excellent play has not been excelled by playing alongside 3 hall of famers and one of the greatest coaches of all time?

Hitting on draft picks alone does not make you a great GM. Perhaps Grunfelds drafting could have been better, there's no denying based on the picks that didn't work out, but when you take into account his entire body of work, it's hard to argue that he's a talented GM. The guy owns teams in trades.

Javale Mcgee for Nene - Denver owned

Rashard Lewis for Trevor Ariza - New Orleans owned

Andre Miller for Ramon Sessions - Sacramento owned

Emeka Okafor for Marcin Gortat - Phoenix owned

2nd round pick for Kris Humphris - Boston owned

The guy puts in some of the best free agency work you'll see in the league WITHOUT overpaying. Guy's he's able to bring in dirt cheap for short term deals and end up becoming contributors: Temple, Gooden, Pierce.

Financially savvy as well, if you look at the teams projected cap entering into one of the biggest free agency classes in a while. Wall's contract is an absolute steal. Not rushing to give Beal a max deal is smart.

Some GM's are great drafters, but falter in the other above mentioned areas.

I think you're missing a tiny little detail in all that ownage => draft picks

I mentioned that drafts could have been better. However, Wall, Beal and Porter make up for those that didn't work out. You don't get rid of a guy AFTER he's cleaned up and turns money.

No, I meant the trades that you claimed that he owned. I'm guessing the cap space and draft picks given away in those trades don't mean anything to you?

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Convincing wins without Beal shows the depth this team has and guys willing to step up into big roles.The Bucks are no slouch but much improved with guys young, athletic and confident. Porter is taking a leap this year faster than I imagined.

No max for Beal. Sign Temple long term.


"Trade down and draft Demarcus Cousins plus a pick" 2010
"Kirk Cousins will be a starting QB" (even over Griffin) 2012
Dejuan Blair is as good as ever. 2015

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

At 100 pages it is time to lock this trolls thread.

How am I a troll and why does this thread need to be locked when there's a lot more discussion and convincing arguments going in this thread versus the Countdown to Ernie Grunfeld Firing thread? Perhaps that should be locked because Grunfeld is not going anywhere anytime soon. Can't fire a guy especially looking at the past 5 years and upcoming free agency. Neither you nor your henchmen have proven the title of this thread false. The research and statistics posted in here are slanted with an obvious one sided agenda, while ignoring the positive stats and recent success of the franchise. Grunfeld is the best GM the Wizards/Bullets have had in decades. Hard for me to see a few years back when the Wizards were winning 19 games. But those years are now a thing of the past.

I'm actually all for making this thread a sticky on this board. Who knew this would get to 100 pages on a board dominated by management haters. But even in the midst of the lynch mob on here, there are a few who've stepped off the ledge and can appreciate this current Wizards movement

Milellie111 is not trolling. He's defending an unpopular opinion and he's doing it respectfully in thes posts. Chirping in game threads isn't trolling IMO because he responds win or lose.



"Trade down and draft Demarcus Cousins plus a pick" 2010
"Kirk Cousins will be a starting QB" (even over Griffin) 2012
Dejuan Blair is as good as ever. 2015

[long suffrin' boulez fan]

This thread should be locked... Not because it is a troll thread (which it is), but because it's BORING. I'll sum up the previous 99 pages. EG sucks. Does not! Does! Does not!

Neener, neener, neener!

I'd love to see a Mod lock this before it gets to 100. Talk about pulling the football away from Charley Brown.

[milellie111]

This thread should be locked... Not because it is a troll thread (which it is), but because it's BORING. I'll sum up the previous 99 pages. EG sucks. Does not! Does! Does not!

Neener, neener, neener!

I'd love to see a Mod lock this before it gets to 100. Talk about pulling the football away from Charley Brown.

Yet the Wizards continue to win and show improvement each year. If Wall wouldn't have gotten hurt against the Hawks, we would have made the ECF. Nothing boring about discussing your teams success and giving credit where it's due.

[milellie111]

I think you're missing a tiny little detail in all that ownage => draft picks

I mentioned that drafts could have been better. However, Wall, Beal and Porter make up for those that didn't work out. You don't get rid of a guy AFTER he's cleaned up and turns money.

No, I meant the trades that you claimed that he owned. I'm guessing the cap space and draft picks given away in those trades don't mean anything to you?

Those draft picks given up, what did they turn into. Are the players selected with those draft picks from the other team marginally better than the player we received via trade?

[milellie111]

Convincing wins without Beal shows the depth this team has and guys willing to step up into big roles.The Bucks are no slouch but much improved with guys young, athletic and confident. Porter is taking a leap this year faster than I imagined.

No max for Beal. Sign Temple long term.


"Trade down and draft Demarcus Cousins plus a pick" 2010
"Kirk Cousins will be a starting QB" (even over Griffin) 2012
Dejuan Blair is as good as ever. 2015

They are gonna have to pay Beal eventually but I would like to see him prove that he can stay healthy for a whole season. Temple is a good backup that can be had for cheap.