OKC Thunder Preseason/Regular Season 2015-2016 Thread

[Pillendreher]

Well if he's playing both, he's whatever. Morrow is listed as a SG as well but he backs up KD, so he's a 3? Lamb and Waiters are both bench 2s who play about 25 mpg. Lamb has played very well and numbers back it up. Waiters has been better than he ever has and still isn't nearly as good. He's gone from "I never want him on the court" to "fine play him because there's not a better option". That trade was one of Presti's worst.

.....
Yes, terrible move by Presti.

We got rid of Lamb, a guy who, at least for us, was the most inconsistent player ive personally seen since young JR Smith and who completely failed at any kind of development.

And ended up with Waiters, a player with a fairly high ceiling yet some what out of control and who has been developing for us quite nicely.... and has been rather consistent.

Dion "consistent" Waiters. Dion "high ceiling" Waiters.

[Bravenewworld]

Well if he's playing both, he's whatever. Morrow is listed as a SG as well but he backs up KD, so he's a 3? Lamb and Waiters are both bench 2s who play about 25 mpg. Lamb has played very well and numbers back it up. Waiters has been better than he ever has and still isn't nearly as good. He's gone from "I never want him on the court" to "fine play him because there's not a better option". That trade was one of Presti's worst.

.....
Yes, terrible move by Presti.

We got rid of Lamb, a guy who, at least for us, was the most inconsistent player ive personally seen since young JR Smith and who completely failed at any kind of development.

And ended up with Waiters, a player with a fairly high ceiling yet some what out of control and who has been developing for us quite nicely.... and has been rather consistent.

Dion "consistent" Waiters. Dion "high ceiling" Waiters.

Compared to Lamb with us, Waiters has been a consistency godsend.
And anyone with eye's can tell he has a much wider range of offensive skill sets.

[Cuban_Linx]

I mean... ya... has anyone suggested he should be starting over KD or which ever SG we decide to start?
The guy was brought in as a low minute 2nd string SF or even 3rd string.... soo.... that's why i never understood the complaints when KD was out. We knew what this guy was brought in to do, we knew he was developing and incapable of replacing KD, so i just didnt know what people expected.

You really can't understand why people would be disappointed with 24% shooting and an ortg of 64 from a guy that just got 20 mil guaranteed?

I get that you like his potential usefulness to the team if he ever finds his shot (would be awesome as evidenced by my 2K career where he's a key roleplayer), but he's just unspeakably terrible this season.

I dont get what people expect.
Again, the guy is in a new system, taking on a role he does not have the skill set to be taking on and playing minutes he should not be taking. There's a reason why we call these guys "role players", because they have a specific role to play. Singler was pretty much taken out of his comfort role and asked to do something else.... so in this situation, again, what do people expect? What if the Clippers tried to play Crawford at the 4? Not to run small ball or whatever, just to do it? Would you complain about Crawford not being able to do this? No. If anything you'd complain about the staff making this decision.
Now, my point with Singler, is such a young player (3 years exp is what i mean by this), that im not going to fault the FO for at least attempting this. We now know he cant control the ball and he can simply go back to being a spot up shooter.

BTW, 20 over 4 years in today's NBA is the equivalent of like 8 over 4, 3 or 4 years ago.

How you still haven't run out of ways to defend this negative PER having player is completely beyond me. Do you realize that hypothetically playing this guy 30+ minutes is just slightly less likely to see him produce 6 fouls than to see him score 6 points? How do you even defend that kinda performance?

[Cuban_Linx]

.....
Yes, terrible move by Presti.

We got rid of Lamb, a guy who, at least for us, was the most inconsistent player ive personally seen since young JR Smith and who completely failed at any kind of development.

And ended up with Waiters, a player with a fairly high ceiling yet some what out of control and who has been developing for us quite nicely.... and has been rather consistent.

Dion "consistent" Waiters. Dion "high ceiling" Waiters.

Compared to Lamb with us, Waiters has been a consistency godsend.
And anyone with eye's can tell he has a much wider range of offensive skill sets.

So? Melo has a wider range of "offensive skill sets"(what??) than KD. You're better of spamming a couple effective shots than going out of your way to do a stepback that falls like 30% of the time.

[Bravenewworld]

How you still haven't run out of ways to defend this negative PER having player is completely beyond me. Do you realize that hypothetically playing this guy 30+ minutes is just slightly less likely to see him produce 6 fouls than to see him score 6 points? How do you even defend that kinda performance?

Run out of ways? Ive never proclaimed anything different.
Its a very simple concept.
3rd year player, team just resigned him to a long contract, they wanted to try to expand his role.... wtf is so hard about this?
How exactly do you this long term 2nd/3rd string players are developed?
Better yet, how exactly do you think teams find out if a player has a higher potential?

I really dont get some of you, this is the process of basketball development. period.
It is what it is, you can like it you can dislike it, but it is what it is and it would be utterly (Please Use More Appropriate Word) to not give him that chance when KD was out.

[Bravenewworld]

So? Melo has a wider range of "offensive skill sets"(what??) than KD. You're better of spamming a couple effective shots than going out of your way to do a stepback that falls like 30% of the time.

Yah.... im not going to have this lamb/waiters conversation again. If you want you can go back to the hundreds of pages of these arguments. In those pages i spent time highlighting the consistency ranges and differences of the two players when they both played for us.

[bondom34]

So? Melo has a wider range of "offensive skill sets"(what??) than KD. You're better of spamming a couple effective shots than going out of your way to do a stepback that falls like 30% of the time.

Yah.... im not going to have this lamb/waiters conversation again. If you want you can go back to the hundreds of pages of these arguments. In those pages i spent time highlighting the consistency ranges and differences of the two players when they both played for us.

No you didn't, you spent days running in circles while saying Waiters can put up mediocre numbers if you let him shoot all he wants. And Lamb has been massively better, especially this year.

[Pillendreher]

.....
Yes, terrible move by Presti.

We got rid of Lamb, a guy who, at least for us, was the most inconsistent player ive personally seen since young JR Smith and who completely failed at any kind of development.

And ended up with Waiters, a player with a fairly high ceiling yet some what out of control and who has been developing for us quite nicely.... and has been rather consistent.

Dion "consistent" Waiters. Dion "high ceiling" Waiters.

Compared to Lamb with us, Waiters has been a consistency godsend.
And anyone with eye's can tell he has a much wider range of offensive skill sets.

No, he really hasn't and the only thing he's been consistent at is being a generally bad basketball player. Lamb would be a godsend for us, yet Presti send him away so we could try to get Dion to become a somewhat good basketball player.

[Bravenewworld]

No, he really hasn't and the only thing he's been consistent at is being a generally bad basketball player. Lamb would be a godsend for us, yet Presti send him away so we could try to get Dion to become a somewhat good basketball player.

Again, yes he is. Im not going to do these comparisons again and they seem to fall on deaf ears who have already made up their minds.
But if you go back you can find where i break down the two players consistencies and their ranges.

Lamb was a failure for us. For one reason or another, he never developed. From day 1 to his final game, his game never evolved. Period. Up until his final game he needed to watch the ball as he dribbled, which often caused turn overs. He always tried to drive left, with almost always lead to turn overs. His shot was again, the most inconsistent ive seen since JR Smith..... in fact he was very similar to Smith in general. Out of 7 games, he would have 1 game where he looked like an all-star. Then 3 would be... back up SG quality, then another 3 it looked like he had never played a game.

Dion has made some great improvements since last season and while i have not gone over his game by game numbers all at one time, i cant think of any major issues that stand out at the time i was mulling over box scores or watching a game.
Then again, i seem to be way more lenient on players and developing then a lot of people here.

[KD35Brah]

Does anyone else think KD should be our on-ball defender in 4th quarters?

[Bravenewworld]

So? Melo has a wider range of "offensive skill sets"(what??) than KD. You're better of spamming a couple effective shots than going out of your way to do a stepback that falls like 30% of the time.

Yah.... im not going to have this lamb/waiters conversation again. If you want you can go back to the hundreds of pages of these arguments. In those pages i spent time highlighting the consistency ranges and differences of the two players when they both played for us.

No you didn't, you spent days running in circles while saying Waiters can put up mediocre numbers if you let him shoot all he wants. And Lamb has been massively better, especially this year.

Im pretty sure i listed their numbers side by side to show the range of "inconsistency" between the two players and how much worse Lamb was..... funny how you didnt understand what was being shown then, and even today you dont seem to get it. Odd for someone who simply wants to play the numbers game all day long.

Why you think i care about Lamb this season is beyond me. As i clearly stated to you time and time again, he may very well go to another team and develop better. But on our team, he couldnt do that for whatever reason. But IMO, hes the same old Lamb.

[bondom34]

If anyone decides to search and finds what he's talking about, alert the masses because I know I've searched as have others and all that was ever proven was Dion is consistently bad and Lamb at the least showed flashes of being good.

[Bravenewworld]

If anyone decides to search and finds what he's talking about, alert the masses because I know I've searched as have others and all that was ever proven was Dion is consistently bad and Lamb at the least showed flashes of being good.

I like how you just happen to forget being shown things that counter your position.
If it helps you, im pretty sure it was around the same time you handed me thje list of 100 players that didnt show ****.

[bondom34]

If anyone decides to search and finds what he's talking about, alert the masses because I know I've searched as have others and all that was ever proven was Dion is consistently bad and Lamb at the least showed flashes of being good.

I like how you just happen to forget being shown things that counter your position.

I never was. I remember Dion being compared to Harden, then it going on for pages and you saying its pretty good he could average like 12 ppg. That was the proof that he's consistent.

[Pillendreher]

No, he really hasn't and the only thing he's been consistent at is being a generally bad basketball player. Lamb would be a godsend for us, yet Presti send him away so we could try to get Dion to become a somewhat good basketball player.

Again, yes he is. Im not going to do these comparisons again and they seem to fall on deaf ears who have already made up their minds.
But if you go back you can find where i break down the two players consistencies and their ranges.

Lamb was a failure for us. For one reason or another, he never developed. From day 1 to his final game, his game never evolved.

Kinda hard doing that without getting chances like Dion, huh?

Up until his final game he needed to watch the ball as he dribbled, which often caused turn overs.

Career tov% Lamb: 8.6%
Career TOV% Waiters: 11.5%

And that's with a slightly higher USG% for Dion.

He always tried to drive left, with almost always lead to turn overs.

FG% on Drives Waiters over the last 3 years: 41.4%
FG% on Drives Lamb over the last 3 years: 46.9%

FG% 0-3 ft Waiters over his career: 52.4%
FG% 0-3 ft Lamb over his career: 69.4%

His shot was again, the most inconsistent ive seen since JR Smith..... in fact he was very similar to Smith in general. Out of 7 games, he would have 1 game where he looked like an all-star. Then 3 would be... back up SG quality, then another 3 it looked like he had never played a game.

Out of 165 NBA games, Lamb had 69 games with a FG% of >=.500. Dion had 64 out of 229 career games.
Games with at least 5 FGA and FGA <=.400: Lamb has 5 of those, Dion 113!

Need I say more?

[Bravenewworld]

I never was. I remember Dion being compared to Harden, then it going on for pages and you saying its pretty good he could average like 12 ppg. That was the proof that he's consistent.

So you don't remember when we were talking about Lamb and Dion's inconsistencies and when i highlighted, i think it was 30 games each, to show why Lamb's were worse. I did this, by showing you that his lows were lower and had more of them, but his highs were higher, but had fewer.
We would see Lamb have 6 games in a row that would be like... 2pts, 2pts, 4pts, 4pts, 3pts, 24pts.
Where-as Waiters would have 18pts, 7pts, 7pts, 9pts, 12pts, 6pts... i actually think waiters never fell below 6 points, where-as Lamb often did.
You dont remember any of that? Because i remember it going on for pages. And it was way more detailed with percentages and minutes and what not to accommodate your absolute need to put everything in numbers.

[Bravenewworld]

Kinda hard doing that without getting chances like Dion, huh?

Yah, not like he got three years or anything.
Its not like he did get chances at starting for long periods and just failed at it.

Career tov% Lamb: 8.6%
Career TOV% Waiters: 11.5%

Makes sense. First two years of Waiters career he was secondary ball handler on a disaster team.

I dont even care about the rest, or the previous for that matter.
Lamb is gone, he sucked for us. Waiters has shown a higher ceiling and is developing nicely for us, something Lamb was unable to do. Conversation is over.

[Pillendreher]

I dont even care about the rest, or the previous for that matter.
Lamb is gone, he sucked for us. Waiters has shown a higher ceiling and is developing nicely for us, something Lamb was unable to do. Conversation is over.

Well, that figures now, doesn't it? Trying to disprove my statements would be too much for you, huh? Let's just all assume you're right and move on, shall we?

[Bravenewworld]

I dont even care about the rest, or the previous for that matter.
Lamb is gone, he sucked for us. Waiters has shown a higher ceiling and is developing nicely for us, something Lamb was unable to do. Conversation is over.

Well, that figures now, doesn't it? Trying to disprove my statements would be too much for you, huh? Let's just all assume you're right and move on, shall we?

Im tired of the conversation about Lamb, we've been having it for three years now.
There is absolutely nothing you or i can say, that everyone has not said already. If you really want to have the conversation, find one of the many threads where thsi conversation broke out and just read. But im not going to spend my time having a conversation that we've had about Lamb for three years, and Lamb vs Waiters for the past year. Sorry, but its not worth my time.

[Pillendreher]

Well, let's move on then Here's to Serge finding his stride tonight. We need him badly.