Defensive Reasons - The PJ Hairston Thread

Post #1161 » by **yosemiteben** » Tue Dec 8, 2015 10:04 pm

Good stuff Snidely, I agree. I have seen some folks say we should trade for Stauskas, who is currently averaging 35% FG (8.4 FGAs) and 30.6% 3PT% (5.4 3PTAs). I'd rather have PJ and at least get some passable defense.

PJ has never been on a team where his role is as a defensive guy, so I actually have a lot of respect for him due to the fact that he seems to have embraced that role while appearing to keep a good attitude. This is a guy that in the D league was averaging 15.5 FGAs per game in just 32 MPG and we all know what a mess he was off the court.

If you look at his UNC career, he took a massive step forward his second year at UNC. His freshman year, he shot 30.8% FG and 27.3% 3PT in limited minutes. The next season, he shot 43% from the field and almost 40% from three on almost 7 3PTAs per game. He was a volume shooter and didn't do much else. He is having to rebuild his game to become effective with limited touches, because no team is going to give him a high level of usage until he can prove his efficiency.

I think Cliff is the perfect coach for PJ, and I would love to see PJ turn his game around. I also won't be surprised if he doesn't.

DY_nasty · Post #1162 » by **DY_nasty** » Tue Dec 8, 2015 11:19 pm

Stauskus is terrible wtf lol

HornetJail · Post #1163 » by **HornetJail** » Wed Dec 9, 2015 12:06 am

DY_nasty wrote:Stauskus is terrible wtf lol

Yeah, he just isn't very good. Looks like yet another Jimmer Fredette. I'd trade PJ Hairston for him in hopes that Stauskas can become something more, had MKG been healthy this season. Until we make a trade and get a defensive wing (hoping we can pull James Johnson out of Toronto, or Quincy Pondexter from New Orleans, etc), PJ will probably continue to get minutes. I don't agree with it, but we're sticking with PJ until there's another player on the roster to fill that role. Fingers crossed we're just counting down the days till we can offer CDR a ten day contract.

Mystical Apples · Post #1164 » by **Mystical Apples** » Wed Dec 9, 2015 12:34 am

yosemiteben wrote:Good stuff Snidely, I agree. I have seen some folks say we should trade for Stauskas, who is currently averaging 35% FG (8.4 FGAs) and 30.6% 3PT% (5.4 3PTAs). I'd rather have PJ and at least get some passable defense.

I'll field this one since I've mentioned Stauskas before. To be clear my comments about Stauskas had nothing to do with PJ or even this year. Personally, I think PJ receives undue criticism relative to his salary and performance. Eventually he'll need to be more productive on the offensive end but that's a given. Otherwise, I've supported the logic to start him and thought it was possible as early as July.

As for Stauskas the team will have some needs in 2016-17 and a cheap rotation shooter from the SG spot is one of them. I'd happily surrender a 2nd rounder for Stauskas and probably 2 seconds. He's been in the worst spots possible so I take his progress in that context. He's a weak defender but his shooing numbers are deceiving given where he accumulates them. He has the skills to eventually be good off the dribble in PnR

With a year in a professional environment I'd bet on Stauskas over Lamb. Not sure he'll get that chance though.

HornetJail · Post #1165 » by **HornetJail** » Wed Dec 9, 2015 1:07 am

Over Lamb? no

Liver_Pooty · Post #1166 » by **Liver_Pooty** » Wed Dec 9, 2015 1:08 am

I understand why PJ starts, and I think he is a terrible basketball player.

Mystical Apples · Post #1167 » by **Mystical Apples** » Wed Dec 9, 2015 1:31 am

MotorKeepsGoing wrote:Over Lamb? no

Opinions may vary of course. 6 months ago Lamb was left for dead and the jury is still out. A few weeks of good shooting isn't enough and he still has some pretty glaring weakness. I'm not down on him just realistic.

Mystical Apples · Post #1168 » by **Mystical Apples** » Wed Dec 9, 2015 1:47 am

If anyone is paying attention Lamb has been shooting poorly since the first handful of games. Everyone was ready to call him a steal based almost solely on his shooting and a miniscule sample size at that. For some reason his marginal shooting over a sample size 3x as large hasn't reversed that. Primacy bias at work.

Lamb last 15 games - 46%, 29% 3P, 66% FT

Lamb last 10 games 43%, 28% 3P, 70% ft

Lamb last 5 games 39%, 29% 3P, 45% Ft

Not sure why PJ gets so much scrutiny but Lamb none.

sidestep · Post #1169 » by **sidestep** » Wed Dec 9, 2015 5:45 am

Mystical Apples wrote:If anyone is paying attention Lamb has been shooting poorly since the first handful of games. Everyone was ready to call him a steal based almost solely on his shooting and a miniscule sample size at that. For some reason his marginal shooting over a sample size 3x as large hasn't reversed that. Primacy bias at work.

Lamb last 15 games - 46%, 29% 3P, 66% FT

Lamb last 10 games 43%, 28% 3P, 70% ft

Lamb last 5 games 39%, 29% 3P, 45% Ft

Not sure why PJ gets so much scrutiny but Lamb none.

Def agree, that Lamb gets a free pass, while PJ seems to be scrutinized for every mistake. I think the reason for this isn't just that Lamb's hot shooting at the start of the season left such a stark impression.

The main bias is that people selectively view Lamb in terms of his potential, instead of seeing him for what he is: a very raw player. (No doubt about his upside: he's got a fluid and consistent shooting motion, excellent length, and he's shown a nice range of offensive moves.) I think this bias is particularly strong among Charlotte fans that have been frustrated with the FO's draft picks, so a young, inexpensive and high-upside talent such as Lamb is going to be embraced as a 'steal' -- as if he compensates for the poor draft picks of former years.

PJ is quite solid for a 2nd year player. Comparing PJ and Lamb, if you just look at what they do instead of projecting what they could do, it is Lamb that looks more raw, more inexperienced, more prone to mistakes, and seeming to lack basic instincts such as defensive awareness. Yet, Lamb has been in the league twice as long as PJ.

PJ hasn't shown flashes of being top-tier in any area, but he has no glaring holes in his game either.

Meanwhile, Lamb has obvious weaknesses, for example he is an very bad PnR defender, and I suspect that throwing more minutes at him will never fix it. He takes forever to read the defense and decide what to do when he holds the ball in triple threat position. When you look at how raw Lamb is (no pun intended haha), it's clear he needs a lot of time and development. At what point does that diminish the team's ability to win games this year? What is the right balance between player development and this year's goal of making the playoffs?

I really couldn't care less if I never see PJ play again, but the team isn't sacrificing much to play him: he gets his shots in the flow of the game, and he doesn't carry a 'development cost'.

Liver_Pooty · Post #1170 » by **Liver_Pooty** » Wed Dec 9, 2015 12:55 pm

Mystical Apples wrote:If anyone is paying attention Lamb has been shooting poorly since the first handful of games. Everyone was ready to call him a steal based almost solely on his shooting and a miniscule sample size at that. For some reason his marginal shooting over a sample size 3x as large hasn't reversed that. Primacy bias at work.

Lamb last 15 games - 46%, 29% 3P, 66% FT

Lamb last 10 games 43%, 28% 3P, 70% ft

Lamb last 5 games 39%, 29% 3P, 45% Ft

Not sure why PJ gets so much scrutiny but Lamb none.

Yeah, Lamb has definitely dropped off since a hot start. I'm more concerned with his defense than I am ability to make shots though. Complete opposite of Hairston.

MasterIchiro · Post #1171 » by **MasterIchiro** » Wed Dec 9, 2015 1:57 pm

Front office locked up Lamb before the season started and declined PJ. I'd say they nailed it.

They're right there with the fans and our primacy bias.

MasterIchiro · Post #1172 » by **MasterIchiro** » Wed Dec 9, 2015 1:58 pm

They did a great job covering up their draft pick poop.

kinein · Post #1173 » by **kinein** » Wed Dec 9, 2015 11:44 pm

yosemiteben wrote:
kinein wrote:
yosemiteben wrote: he's always been a volume shooter, so his role in the league is totally different from what got him here.

I keep hoping that that shot will start falling.

The days of volume shooters being the alphas is over.

In a different era, a different time, with different rules - pre-internet.

I don't really understand your point. Steph and Kristaps are both primary scoring options for their teams. PJ would love to have 12 FGAs per game, that's just not his role.

I was just commenting, I don't have a point other than my statement to add to your own post. PJ doesn't score efficiently if that helps highlight what angle I'm coming at when talking about "volume shooters". PJ isn't going to excel unless he works on being efficient and finding ways to integrate himself with his team and find himself some shots or put-backs.

For example in the last 10 games he has shot below 27% FGs.

For the season he is shooting 3pters at 24%

I don't see PJ nor coaching wanting him to shoot much with those %s.

DY_nasty · Post #1174 » by **DY_nasty** » Wed Dec 9, 2015 11:53 pm

I want to believe that PJ won't shoot like **** forever.

That's really... the ONLY knock against him at this point. But its outright concerning now. Probability states that he should've got hot by now lol

Post #1175 » by **Walt Cronkite** » Thu Dec 10, 2015 2:19 am

He was on fire tonight.

ChokeFasncists · Post #1176 » by **ChokeFasncists** » Thu Dec 10, 2015 6:22 am

sidestep wrote:
Mystical Apples wrote:If anyone is paying attention Lamb has been shooting poorly since the first handful of games. Everyone was ready to call him a steal based almost solely on his shooting and a miniscule sample size at that. For some reason his marginal shooting over a sample size 3x as large hasn't reversed that. Primacy bias at work.

Lamb last 15 games - 46%, 29% 3P, 66% FT

Lamb last 10 games 43%, 28% 3P, 70% ft

Lamb last 5 games 39%, 29% 3P, 45% Ft

Not sure why PJ gets so much scrutiny but Lamb none.

Def agree, that Lamb gets a free pass, while PJ seems to be scrutinized for every mistake. I think the reason for this isn't just that Lamb's hot shooting at the start of the season left such a stark impression.

The main bias is that people selectively view Lamb in terms of his potential, instead of seeing him for what he is: a very raw player. (No doubt about his upside: he's got a fluid and consistent shooting motion, excellent length, and he's shown a nice range of offensive moves.) I think this bias is particularly strong among Charlotte fans that have been frustrated with the FO's draft picks, so a young, inexpensive and high-upside talent such as Lamb is going to be embraced as a 'steal' -- as if he compensates for the poor draft picks of former years.

PJ is quite solid for a 2nd year player. Comparing PJ and Lamb, if you just look at what they do instead of projecting what they could do, it is Lamb that looks more raw, more inexperienced, more prone to mistakes, and seeming to lack basic instincts such as defensive awareness. Yet, Lamb has been in the league twice as long as PJ.

PJ hasn't shown flashes of being top-tier in any area, but he has no glaring holes in his game either.

Meanwhile, Lamb has obvious weaknesses, for example he is an very bad PnR defender, and I suspect that throwing more minutes at him will never fix it. He takes forever to read the defense and decide what to do when he holds the ball in triple threat position. When you look at how raw Lamb is (no pun intended haha), it's clear he needs a lot of time and development. At what point does that diminish the team's ability to win games this year? What is the right balance between player development and this year's goal of making the playoffs?

I really couldn't care less if I never see PJ play again, but the team isn't sacrificing much to play him: he gets his shots in the flow of the game, and he doesn't carry a 'development cost'.

Agreed. Lamb's shot selection is still a problem. He's better off the bench right now. He is very good instant offense.

euphorbus · Post #1177 » by **euphorbus** » Thu Dec 10, 2015 1:48 pm

Coach Clifford praised Hairston's defense last night on Dywane Wade, and mentioned that Hairston has improved his defensive technique since the beginning of the season. Wade certainly had a quiet game, once again. Overall, the team defense was fantastic, including the bench.

Post #1178 » by **yosemiteben** » Fri Dec 18, 2015 4:11 pm

PJ in his last five games: 22.4 MPG, 8.4 pts, 42.9% FG, 45.8% 3PT on 4.8 attempts, 3.4 board, 1.0 to

Christmas came early this year.

euphorbus · Post #1179 » by **euphorbus** » Fri Dec 18, 2015 5:10 pm

It could be that Hairston, now in his second year in the league, has started to find his footing. It would hardly be the first time that has happened. At least until Dec. 24, he is still only 22, the same age as Kaminsky. Zeller and Lamb are 23. We tend to forget how young they are and how difficult the transition--personal and professional--can be from college to the NBA. In any case, Coach Clifford praised him yet again for his defensive work and mentioned that he is a bright individual, still learning.

DY_nasty · Post #1180 » by **DY_nasty** » Fri Dec 18, 2015 5:31 pm

euphorbus wrote:It could be that Hairston, now in his second year in the league, has started to find his footing. It would hardly be the first time that has happened. At least until Dec. 24, he is still only 22, the same age as Kaminsky. Zeller and Lamb are 23. We tend to forget how young they are and how difficult the transition--personal and professional--can be from college to the NBA. In any case, Coach Clifford praised him yet again for his defensive work and mentioned that he is a bright individual, still learning.

people were all over mclemore despite his atrocious rookie year but pj is just too much fun to hate on i guess

and all the crap about him being the pothead when al is the one who got hit with the suspension lol

he's getting it together. that trainwreck of a season last year hit him the hardest and it was obvious i thought. glad to see him making strides to get some confidence back and props to cliff for sticking with him. PJ by himself is killing the idea that cliff hates young players - he's had no reason to play him other than faith and trust.