Ben Simmons

[Marcus]

Ben Simmons hype is out of control. He is scoring on put backs and garbage baskets versus inferior competition . No perimeter game whatsoever . No jumpers !!!!

so you're not a fan I take it?

I mean a lot of what he is saying is true

Meanwhile none of that is what Ben's hype is based off of.

Like I could see it with Ingram where folks were bashing him for not hitting jumpers when he's supposed to have that in his arsenal or people clowning Skal for being soft on the boards when he's supposed to be a big man.

But using something that NO ONE has EVER said were strengths of Ben's as the reason why the hype is crazy seems odd.

Now if you don't like the kid's game or think that a first option score anywhere on the floor type of player SHOULD be the number one pick then that's fair, I won't argue with a preference. But his hype is a product of what he DOES do not what he doesn't.

[No-Man]

The hype is insane, I understand that there is no clear cut sexy prospect other than him and ESPN has to talk about something, but seriously, he is far from a generational prospect, some people are talking about him like he is the best prospect since LeBron, which is just delusional and ludicrous.

[splendidham]

Is there such a thing as hate hype? Because if there is, Ben sure gets a lot of it


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[SparksFly87]

Ben Simmons hype is ridiculious. He's a tweener with no perimeter game. Aaron Gordon even showed more from the perimeter at the same age . Simmons is imposing his will on scrubs . I am not sold on him and dont see him as a allstar level player in the nba.

[Marcus]

Is there such a thing as hate hype?


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Yeah. Happens every year with whoever is supposed to be "the guy" nobody is immune to it. There will be a new target next year.

Whether it's Jackson, Smith, Giles, or Tatum if not all of them at various points in the year. Just the way it is.

[doordoor123]

The hype is insane, I understand that there is no clear cut sexy prospect other than him and ESPN has to talk about something, but seriously, he is far from a generational prospect, some people are talking about him like he is the best prospect since LeBron, which is just delusional and ludicrous.

I don't believe in declaring any player generational or not because it's not projectable. What you can do is point to certain aspects of his game and say, "is that an elite quality and is it translatable?" To do that you have to understand most players will get smaller roles, the court is wider (longer threes), shorter time to make choices, players are bigger, stronger, more athletic, more experienced and likely more skilled, and of course defenders play a lot tighter and are much more focused. It's why positions like PG need to be able to 1: catch a defenders off guard with speed, 2: create space with dribble moves or 3: make threes to catch defenders off guard. What are the qualities that are translatable to that? And then how could a player fit within the NBA game's parameters and have an edge? What makes that player better than players who are already professionals with records of their own? Size, length, speed, movement, verticallity, hand size, shiftiness, handle, shooting touch, first step, etc. If a player has multiple edges they're more likely to succeed at the next level. You can't find these edges by looking at numbers (most of the time). Looking at Simmons, he has a couple, but they differ depending on who he's guarding and who is guarding him.

[HeartBreakKid]

I wonder if a lot of people think Simmons is generational because they did not know who he was before the college season started?

I mean there are really two things Simmons was known for

His blazing speed
His extremely gifted passing ability

This was well known during his Highschool years, granted some people thought that Simmons was not that great of an athlete (I have no idea how anyone could have ever thought this, he is incredibly fast). He was not thought of a generational prospect last year, quite the opposite really, more of a weak #1 overall.

The only thing that I've gotten from watching him in college is that he is fast and an excellent passer, which is what I/we already knew about Simmons. Not sure why people are prompting him up so much.

I suppose there is the whole thing where he is filling up the boxscore stats, that's probably what is getting ESPN hyped. Filling up the boxscore says nothing about how good you will be in the NBA, especially in the early parts of the NCAA season where major colleges are playing weak teams.

[Marcus]

I wonder if a lot of people think Simmons is generational because they did not know who he was before the college season started?

yeah I gotta wonder that as well. Ben has pretty much done everything I expected from him coming in. The things I knew would shine have and the questions I had coming in still exist. Gonna hold my opinion from swaying one way or the other until I see conference play. I want to see takeover against talent that's on/near his level where the defensive game plan is not only geared to him but also executed by kids with the skillset to make it effective. I want to see his IQ shine in those instances and I want to see him be the best player on the floor regardless. Don't need him to drop 50 or anything like that because that's not his game but just clearly be the best player on the floor and do whatever is in his power to carry his team against better comp.

Secondly, I really just need to see confidence in that jumper. I don't need to see it go in at a Steph Curry rate just need to see him confident enough to take it especially in situations where he should take it. The Marquette game comes to mind. End of the game caught a good look midrange in rhythm and kicked it out to (granted a better shooter) the top of the key for a decent three ball look and they took a L on that miss. I know he's about making the "right play" and he's a team first guy and I love that about him. He clearly had the better look in an obvious "im the guy moment" when he had already been willing his team back anyway. That's the part of his game I need to see improve. He's gotta trust that look and take that jumper because its going to be given to him all year until he knocks it down.

As the rest of the pack starts to get their legs, Ingram starts looking like the kid we expected, Jaylen settles down, Kris Dunn starts to become undeniable, Murray and Skal are a strong conference performance away from the UK push. Ben's swiss knife and IQ could get passed by "higher upside" guys if he can't answer those questions.

[Duke4life831]

I wonder if a lot of people think Simmons is generational because they did not know who he was before the college season started?

I mean there are really two things Simmons was known for

His blazing speed
His extremely gifted passing ability

This was well known during his Highschool years, granted some people thought that Simmons was not that great of an athlete (I have no idea how anyone could have ever thought this, he is incredibly fast). He was not thought of a generational prospect last year, quite the opposite really, more of a weak #1 overall.

The only thing that I've gotten from watching him in college is that he is fast and an excellent passer, which is what I/we already knew about Simmons. Not sure why people are prompting him up so much.

I suppose there is the whole thing where he is filling up the boxscore stats, that's probably what is getting ESPN hyped. Filling up the boxscore says nothing about how good you will be in the NBA, especially in the early parts of the NCAA season where major colleges are playing weak teams.

Agreed with everything you just said. The talent level they have opened up playing against allows his strengths to really shine and really hide his weaknesses. He's playing against small unathletic teams which allows him to score off just his athleticism. I also don't get what happened to make him become the next great player, hell a guy on ESPN a couple weeks ago (right after the North Florida game) said he was going to be the best player in the world in 4 years. Like where did this all come from? Now if he was scoring a bunch of his shots from 3 and low post moves and turn around jumpers than I'd get the extra hype he has picked up because those are his weaknesses that we all knew coming in. But he's just playing the style he has always played against and doing it against really terrible competition. Marquette and NC state are the two best teams he has faced and neither are locks to make the tourney. And against state he put up 4 points because state just clogged the lane and dared him to shoot

[doordoor123]

I wonder if a lot of people think Simmons is generational because they did not know who he was before the college season started?

yeah I gotta wonder that as well. Ben has pretty much done everything I expected from him coming in. The things I knew would shine have and the questions I had coming in still exist. Gonna hold my opinion from swaying one way or the other until I see conference play. I want to see takeover against talent that's on/near his level where the defensive game plan is not only geared to him but also executed by kids with the skillset to make it effective. I want to see his IQ shine in those instances and I want to see him be the best player on the floor regardless. Don't need him to drop 50 or anything like that because that's not his game but just clearly be the best player on the floor and do whatever is in his power to carry his team against better comp.

Secondly, I really just need to see confidence in that jumper. I don't need to see it go in at a Steph Curry rate just need to see him confident enough to take it especially in situations where he should take it. The Marquette game comes to mind. End of the game caught a good look midrange in rhythm and kicked it out to (granted a better shooter) the top of the key for a decent three ball look and they took a L on that miss. I know he's about making the "right play" and he's a team first guy and I love that about him. He clearly had the better look in an obvious "im the guy moment" when he had already been willing his team back anyway. That's the part of his game I need to see improve. He's gotta trust that look and take that jumper because its going to be given to him all year until he knocks it down.

As the rest of the pack starts to get their legs, Ingram starts looking like the kid we expected, Jaylen settles down, Kris Dunn starts to become undeniable, Murray and Skal are a strong conference performance away from the UK push. Ben's swiss knife and IQ could get passed by "higher upside" guys if he can't answer those questions.

For me, when you say jumper all I can think about is Blake Griffin. Even if he isn't a great shooter, he'd still be able to score a lot around the rim. He finishes extremely well with either hand and he's a lot quicker than Griffin was. I can't think of many power forwards that would be able to stop him with a full head of steam. Shooting is also not a big deal if you have a player that is known for making adjustments. Kawhi is an example. For me, I think it depends on where he goes and how he's used. I also think he's underrated athletically. He's much quicker and lighter on his feet than Aaron Gordon and has the best feel for the game than any 19 year old power forward I've seen. I don't like confidence arguments because he's only 19.

[Marcus]

I wonder if a lot of people think Simmons is generational because they did not know who he was before the college season started?

yeah I gotta wonder that as well. Ben has pretty much done everything I expected from him coming in. The things I knew would shine have and the questions I had coming in still exist. Gonna hold my opinion from swaying one way or the other until I see conference play. I want to see takeover against talent that's on/near his level where the defensive game plan is not only geared to him but also executed by kids with the skillset to make it effective. I want to see his IQ shine in those instances and I want to see him be the best player on the floor regardless. Don't need him to drop 50 or anything like that because that's not his game but just clearly be the best player on the floor and do whatever is in his power to carry his team against better comp.

Secondly, I really just need to see confidence in that jumper. I don't need to see it go in at a Steph Curry rate just need to see him confident enough to take it especially in situations where he should take it. The Marquette game comes to mind. End of the game caught a good look midrange in rhythm and kicked it out to (granted a better shooter) the top of the key for a decent three ball look and they took a L on that miss. I know he's about making the "right play" and he's a team first guy and I love that about him. He clearly had the better look in an obvious "im the guy moment" when he had already been willing his team back anyway. That's the part of his game I need to see improve. He's gotta trust that look and take that jumper because its going to be given to him all year until he knocks it down.

As the rest of the pack starts to get their legs, Ingram starts looking like the kid we expected, Jaylen settles down, Kris Dunn starts to become undeniable, Murray and Skal are a strong conference performance away from the UK push. Ben's swiss knife and IQ could get passed by "higher upside" guys if he can't answer those questions.

For me, when you say jumper all I can think about is Blake Griffin. Even if he isn't a great shooter, he'd still be able to score a lot around the rim. He finishes extremely well with either hand and he's a lot quicker than Griffin was. I can't think of many power forwards that would be able to stop him with a full head of steam. Shooting is also not a big deal if you have a player that is known for making adjustments. Kawhi is an example. For me, I think it depends on where he goes and how he's used. I also think he's underrated athletically. He's much quicker and lighter on his feet than Aaron Gordon and has the best feel for the game than any 19 year old power forward I've seen. I don't like confidence arguments because he's only 19.

I agree with what you're saying and I don't doubt he can develop something respectable. Just from watching him the hesitation is there when teams are daring him to shoot it. Like I can buy into passing up on the shot early in the game and not letting the defense dictate what you do but certain situations where there's clearly no choice he's gotta at least put it up and trust it a little. He did it some in Australia in the pre-season I'm hoping he's holding it for a reason. He's gotta at least make teams respect a 18 footer if nothing else. It would make everything else he does offensively so much more effective with just a respectable mid-range game even if he never extends to three point range.

[Illmatic12]

I wonder if a lot of people think Simmons is generational because they did not know who he was before the college season started?

I mean there are really two things Simmons was known for

His blazing speed
His extremely gifted passing ability

This was well known during his Highschool years, granted some people thought that Simmons was not that great of an athlete (I have no idea how anyone could have ever thought this, he is incredibly fast). He was not thought of a generational prospect last year, quite the opposite really, more of a weak #1 overall.

The only thing that I've gotten from watching him in college is that he is fast and an excellent passer, which is what I/we already knew about Simmons. Not sure why people are prompting him up so much.

I suppose there is the whole thing where he is filling up the boxscore stats, that's probably what is getting ESPN hyped. Filling up the boxscore says nothing about how good you will be in the NBA, especially in the early parts of the NCAA season where major colleges are playing weak teams.

It basically comes from ESPN telling everyone he's the next ____ *insert* 'greatest prospect since Lebron', 'generational talent' etc etc

It's their job to hype a new prospect every year, that's how they make money. The level of dominance being attributed to Simmons game clearly isn't accurate, he has fixable but legitimate flaws that would hold him back from living up to even a fraction of that hype.


Brandon Ingram is really starting to turn it on. It's early, but you wonder if Philly gets the #1 pick, they won't look at him instead of taking another big man with the #1 (or maybe they'd trade down to #2 with say, Boston and take Ingram)

[Marcus]

I wonder if a lot of people think Simmons is generational because they did not know who he was before the college season started?

I mean there are really two things Simmons was known for

His blazing speed
His extremely gifted passing ability

This was well known during his Highschool years, granted some people thought that Simmons was not that great of an athlete (I have no idea how anyone could have ever thought this, he is incredibly fast). He was not thought of a generational prospect last year, quite the opposite really, more of a weak #1 overall.

The only thing that I've gotten from watching him in college is that he is fast and an excellent passer, which is what I/we already knew about Simmons. Not sure why people are prompting him up so much.

I suppose there is the whole thing where he is filling up the boxscore stats, that's probably what is getting ESPN hyped. Filling up the boxscore says nothing about how good you will be in the NBA, especially in the early parts of the NCAA season where major colleges are playing weak teams.

It basically comes from ESPN telling everyone he's the next ____ *insert* 'greatest prospect since Lebron', 'generational talent' etc etc

It's their job to hype a new prospect every year, that's how they make money. The level of dominance being attributed to Simmons game clearly isn't accurate, he has fixable but legitimate flaws that would hold him back from living up to even a fraction of that hype.


Brandon Ingram is really starting to turn it on. It's early, but you wonder if Philly gets the #1 pick, they won't look at him instead of taking another big man with the #1 (or maybe they'd trade down to #2 with say, Boston and take Ingram)

if Philly gets the number 1 I think Ingram makes more sense. They need the shooting and they'll need another pure scorer next to big Jah. Not sure Simmons helps with either of those needs.

[Duke4life831]

I wonder if a lot of people think Simmons is generational because they did not know who he was before the college season started?

I mean there are really two things Simmons was known for

His blazing speed
His extremely gifted passing ability

This was well known during his Highschool years, granted some people thought that Simmons was not that great of an athlete (I have no idea how anyone could have ever thought this, he is incredibly fast). He was not thought of a generational prospect last year, quite the opposite really, more of a weak #1 overall.

The only thing that I've gotten from watching him in college is that he is fast and an excellent passer, which is what I/we already knew about Simmons. Not sure why people are prompting him up so much.

I suppose there is the whole thing where he is filling up the boxscore stats, that's probably what is getting ESPN hyped. Filling up the boxscore says nothing about how good you will be in the NBA, especially in the early parts of the NCAA season where major colleges are playing weak teams.

It basically comes from ESPN telling everyone he's the next ____ *insert* 'greatest prospect since Lebron', 'generational talent' etc etc

It's their job to hype a new prospect every year, that's how they make money. The level of dominance being attributed to Simmons game clearly isn't accurate, he has fixable but legitimate flaws that would hold him back from living up to even a fraction of that hype.


Brandon Ingram is really starting to turn it on. It's early, but you wonder if Philly gets the #1 pick, they won't look at him instead of taking another big man with the #1 (or maybe they'd trade down to #2 with say, Boston and take Ingram)

if Philly gets the number 1 I think Ingram makes more sense. They need the shooting and they'll need another pure scorer next to big Jah. Not sure Simmons helps with either of those needs.

Agreed. I don't think Simmons is the best fit for Philly. Philly needs perimeter scoring in the wrist ways right now. They don't need another 4 that can't spread the floor

[The Skyhook]

He had a few nice passes in the half court last night but it was a subpar game in comparison to what we've already seen from him. He's really going to need to develop a shot. The defense was sagging off of him all night and he didn't even bother shooting besides one time.

[bulliedog8]

Isnt Saric a Point forward too? Wouldnt he and simmons be redundant? I also think Ingram is probably a better fit for the 76ers than Simmons. I think the same too for the Lakers, that ingram is a better fit. Simmons would be great for a team like the Pelicans. Pair him with AD and that PnR with those two would be unstoppable.

[Marcus]

Isnt Saric a Point forward too? Wouldnt he and simmons be redundant? I also think Ingram is probably a better fit for the 76ers than Simmons. I think the same too for the Lakers, that ingram is a better fit. Simmons would be great for a team like the Pelicans. Pair him with AD and that PnR with those two would be unstoppable.

Yeah Ben would be good for the Pels with the shooting around him and AD being the focal point it would work especially given the injury history of those guards they have their. Would be nice to have another ball handler creator to lessen the work for AD who seems to do better off the catch and shoot or the 1, 2, pull up rather than having to use moves to create for himself.

[Duke4life831]

He had a few nice passes in the half court last night but it was a subpar game in comparison to what we've already seen from him. He's really going to need to develop a shot. The defense was sagging off of him all night and he didn't even bother shooting besides one time.

Yup there was a play in the first half where Simmons turned and faced up about 15 ft from the basket. And his man instantly just sagged off. They were doing that all night, his points just came off of put backs, transition and athleticism. He needs that jumper, he is going to get exposed once they start going against teams that will make the tourney.

[madmaxmedia]

I feel like there was as time when great prospects were regarded as just that- great prospects, we were excited to see how they would do in the NBA, how they would gradually grow and develop and adjust.

Now with the whole tanking thing, the idea that you need 1 or 2 AAA 'generational' players to win a title...we are all looking at the top 2 or 3 players only through that lens. If Ben Simmons becomes a extremely talented big man like say Lamar Odom was his first couple of years (without the pot), he's a failure and will generate a lot of angst and "I told you so!" here.

To 'merely' become an All-Star level player means rising above an impossibly talented and dedicated group of the best 300 basketball players in the world. To become a generational talent and make those All-Stars look like regular rotation guys? I'm not exactly sure how to discern that in a college freshman. Probably most excellent basketball players aren't willing to solely dedicate their entire lives at the expense of everything else to that pursuit, good for them because life is a lot more than just basketball.

This is a long-winded way of saying that I think Simmons looks like a really nice player, physically talented but also seems to have nice awareness of the game. He could be the next LeBron or the next Lamar Odom.

[nurseryc]

Huge game from Ben today, even showing he can knock down the jumper. So close to a triple double. He is really starting to separate himself from this years pack.