Butler calls out Hoiberg / Update pg 33: KC releases negative report on Jimmy

[NecessaryEvil]

Isn't the coach supposed to be letting the players know what they're supposed to be doing?

This dude is rubbing me the wrong way no homo

EDIT : Kobe & Bron often coach players on the floor so whatever. Lets just get to the Finals please.

[bennjuiced34]

#Butler walks right off the court after shootaround, says doesn't regret what he said. Says he has to lead better. Says raw emotion.

#Butler: "People want me to lead. You take my leadership for what it is. Some people may like it, some people don’t."

#Butler: "I know every play at every position. I study the playbook like that. I gotta let players know what they're supposed to be doing."

#Butler: "Now that we've addressed it, everybody knows what they have to do. Before, everybody was maybe going through the motions."

#Butler: "I had more things to say to people individually. Fred did the majority of talking when we were in the film room."

#Butler: "I explained my opinion and what I'm gonna do to change things here. Everybody accepted what I had to say."

WOW. Butler is standing behind his comments 100%.

Got the message loud and clear my arse, Musiq. He pretty much said "tough ti****" if you don't like how I did it.

Butler just threw the gauntlet down, lets see how the team responds.

Well yeah, I'm not surprised he stood by his comments. What he did say though was that he shouldn't have gone to the media about it. That's where he was wrong. I have no issue if he wants to call guys out internally, but keep that stuff in house.

[Rerisen]

I dont understand why you are so steadfast on trying to show that Butler was right in doing this.

I have never said he is right to do it this way, I said they should punish him if they feel its necessary.

I said he is right about the underlying problems on the team.

And that those are more important as an issue than Jimmy's outburst.

[musiqsoulchild]

So, is he calling out Fred or not?

He called out the entire team of course.

That one line is just PC media speak to not make it look as bad, you're wise enough to know this.

His whole press conference was one big, "Sorry, not sorry."

There was no taking back the comments, no "I messed up". No humbling even. All he did was try to smooth over the ruffled feathers. The takeover plan is still in effect.

Jimmy is the captain now. Fred better man the helm or he might just be along for the ride.

So, its PC media speak when it does NOT fit the narrative you want?

And its the ABSOLUTE, IRREFUTABLE truth when the comments fit the narrative?

Come on man.....the organization loves Jimmy. You can hear it in Gar's comments and in Pax's comments. They are going to give him a LOOOONG rope. And they are going to help him become a leader. Fred will facilitate that process.

But Jimmy cant cut ahead in line....he's got to wait.

[DASMACKDOWN]

I agree with Jimmy 100%

Shouldnt have said it to the media..but I agree with everything he said.

[Rerisen]

So, its PC media speak when it does NOT fit the narrative you want?

And its the ABSOLUTE, IRREFUTABLE truth when the comments fit the narrative?

Come on man.....the organization loves Jimmy. You can hear it in Gar's comments and in Pax's comments. They are going to give him a LOOOONG rope. And they are going to help him become a leader. Fred will facilitate that process.

But Jimmy cant cut ahead in line....he's got to wait.

Dude, read the quotes. That is not a man who is waiting. He said like 1 or 2 lines of contrition and about 20 lines of doubling down. We don't need to build a narrative, he laid out his thoughts super clearly.

Jimmy era is here for good or bad.

Will it work, I have no idea. But I know he's trying to change the dynamic here. And really it needs changing.

Because this team is just going through the motions, in the same way that led to Thibs getting fired.

[bennjuiced34]

I agree with Jimmy 100%

Shouldnt have said it to the media..but I agree with everything he said.

I disagree with him mentioning Hoiberg. He's not the problem. The team had issues listening to Thibs last year as well. Players need to be accountable to themselves and one another.

Jimmy needs to be an extension of Hoiberg. That's how a leadership hierarchy works. A team becomes a reflection of its coach and its leadership. We're still figuring out where Jimmy stands in that hierarchy, but I'm all for him being the alpha, just not how he went about doing it recently.

But, based on the media session and the reports about their meetings, looks like it's being handled and addressed the right way. We'll see if it has a positive impact moving forward.

[musiqsoulchild]

Again, Jimmy is doing this poorly.

You should not go to the media and say:

" I study the playbook in great detail. Its my job to call out to people on where they need to be".

OR

" I spoke to players individually"

What is he trying to prove?

Think of it this way ---- why do we have to discuss bad board behavior via PM and not in an open thread? Its common sense - without that there is no leadership. Only bullying.

[Rerisen]

I agree with Jimmy 100%

Shouldnt have said it to the media..but I agree with everything he said.

I disagree with him mentioning Hoiberg. He's not the problem. The team had issues listening to Thibs last year as well. Players need to be accountable to themselves and one another.

Jimmy needs to be an extension of Hoiberg. That's how a leadership hierarchy works. A team becomes a reflection of its coach and its leadership. We're still figuring out where Jimmy stands in that hierarchy, but I'm all for him being the alpha, just not how he went about doing it recently.

But, based on the media session and the reports about their meetings, looks like it's being handled and addressed the right way. We'll see if it has a positive impact moving forward.

Exactly, the best player and the coach need to be on the same page as a team.

This is what Jimmy is trying to invite from Fred, in his clumsy way.

When Rose and Thibs were on the page, the team had leadership and success.

Jimmy is saying to Fred, I'm the key you are looking for to spearhead this team in a direction. Use me.

[NecessaryEvil]

Again, Jimmy is doing this poorly.

You should not go to the media and say:

" I study the playbook in great detail. Its my job to call out to people on where they need to be".

OR

" I spoke to players individually"

What is he trying to prove?

Think of it this way ---- why do we have to discuss bad board behavior via PM and not in an open thread? Its common sense - without that there is no leadership. Only bullying.

I agree 100%

[musiqsoulchild]

So, its PC media speak when it does NOT fit the narrative you want?

And its the ABSOLUTE, IRREFUTABLE truth when the comments fit the narrative?

Come on man.....the organization loves Jimmy. You can hear it in Gar's comments and in Pax's comments. They are going to give him a LOOOONG rope. And they are going to help him become a leader. Fred will facilitate that process.

But Jimmy cant cut ahead in line....he's got to wait.

Dude, read the quotes. That is not a man who is waiting. He said like 1 or 2 lines of contrition and about 20 lines of doubling down. We don't need to build a narrative, he laid out his thoughts super clearly.

Jimmy era is here for good or bad.

Will it work, I have no idea. But I know he's trying to change the dynamic here. And really it needs changing.

Because this team is just going through the motions, in the same way that led to Thibs getting fired.

Here's my narrative: Jimmy Butler CANNOT change the dynamic of the team.

He can ONLY change how HE shows up.

This is because he hasnt been bestowed that power by his teammates. And he isnt so much of a talent that he can single-handedly address all the malaise.

And most importantly, this FO does not negotiate with arm twisters.

[Indomitable]

Butler said he signed here for 5 years, and yeah unless the team decides to try and trade him, he's right, he's going to outlast Rose, outlast Noah, outlast Pau, outlast probably all these guys. Except maybe the kids who are no threat to his status.

So right now, he's on some pretty solid footing with his leverage.

I dont understand why you are so steadfast on trying to show that Butler was right in doing this.

This isnt like Rose - where his bad play makes him hard to trade.

Jimmy is an easy contract to trade and we can get good value our of it as well. If he keeps up with "talking ti***".

Fred Hoiberg called Jimmy :

1) A good leader
2) One of the leaders

That there is how you are taught to get in line.

rerisen is frustrated with the team and front office. He agrees with Jimmy and Rerisen has said he should have kept it in house.

But Jimmy can just as easily be traded. He healthy on a pretty decent contract.Especially after the Salary caps explodes. He signed up for at least 4 years.

[MC3]

Jimmy is all like "move bit- get out the way". will see if it works, probably not. I dont believe in "bullying" will see if teammates do.

[Rerisen]

This is because he hasnt been bestowed that power by his teammates.

He says he has.

#Butler: "People want me to lead. You take my leadership for what it is. Some people may like it, some people don’t."

He needs to be bestowed the power by Fred if he doesn't have it.

Because right now the team's style mimics the up and down low energy inconsistency of Pau and Rose.

If it mimicked how Jimmy shows up, we'd probably be ahead of Cleveland right now.

[NecessaryEvil]

Butler said he signed here for 5 years, and yeah unless the team decides to try and trade him, he's right, he's going to outlast Rose, outlast Noah, outlast Pau, outlast probably all these guys. Except maybe the kids who are no threat to his status.

So right now, he's on some pretty solid footing with his leverage.

I dont understand why you are so steadfast on trying to show that Butler was right in doing this.

This isnt like Rose - where his bad play makes him hard to trade.

Jimmy is an easy contract to trade and we can get good value our of it as well. If he keeps up with "talking ti***".

Fred Hoiberg called Jimmy :

1) A good leader
2) One of the leaders

That there is how you are taught to get in line.

rerisen is frustrated with the team and front office. He agrees with Jimmy and Rerisen has said he should have kept it in house.

But Jimmy can just as easily be traded. He healthy on a pretty decent contract.Especially after the Salary caps explodes. He signed up for at least 4 years.

From where I'm sitting, Whiteside, D12 or Cousins could all help the Chicago Bulls.

[Rerisen]

But Jimmy can just as easily be traded. He healthy on a pretty decent contract.Especially after the Salary caps explodes. He signed up for at least 4 years.

He can be easily traded because he's a top 20 player in the league, with what will be a great contract, any team would take him.

But in trying to move him, we almost certainly lose the best player in the deal, on a team that needs *more* talent consolidation, not less.

The last player we had better than Jimmy was MVP Rose and it took 1.9% fluke wining the lottery to get him.

[coldfish]

I agree with Jimmy 100%

Shouldnt have said it to the media..but I agree with everything he said.

+1.

There are two issues here:
- Is what he said correct?
- Should he have said it publicly?

IMO, he is correct in his assertion but wrong in saying it where he did (unless he has gone through private channels many times and was blown off). I personally think that the issue about him being fundamentally correct is a FAR bigger issue than him commenting on in publicly. Seriously, he said people are outright blowing off coaching assignments. That's really not cool, even if completely unsurprising.

[MrSparkle]

I like the end result.

Good cop (Fred), bad cop (Jimmy) works for me.

I think they'll make it work. A little adversity brings people together in the work place.

We're at .600 with awkward dysfunction and on-court confusion.

I said it a year ago, but making Jimmy the clear leader would benefit the team. Rose and Noah can't be the guys anymore; they're too broken. They're still good emotional leaders with high ceilings, but on-the-court, nobody can match Jimmy's intensity on both ends.

It's sports, man. Gotta pass that torch. Rose was still talking like he's the man at the beginning of the season: Max contract, best is yet to come, etc.

Jimmy put that **** to rest today. He's the guy who decides who gets the big shot from now on.

Everything I read, it was a jab at Fred but it seemed like Fred was just the safe guy to criticize. If Jimmy called out some of the vets on this team, like Rose, that would really screw team morale and locker-room dynamic. But in many ways, Fred was the perfect guy to handle this and perhaps get a good message across.

[Rerisen]

I personally think that the issue about him being fundamentally correct is a FAR bigger issue than him commenting on in publicly. Seriously, he said people are outright blowing off coaching assignments. That's really not cool, even if completely unsurprising.

If its true, and sure looks that way watching the team, this trend continuing - the same trend that ended Thibs - could submarine Fred's whole tenure.

Even for those that believe this is a throw away transition year, all the young players who are the next generation of this team, to whatever extent that even makes sense to say, are watching how the team is responding to Fred. And if he doesn't get buy in now from the vets, its a real bad precedent for these young players to change it up, even after the roster changes.

And right now its actually the young players, outside Doug, who are failing the most and playing without any sense of direction.

[bennjuiced34]

I agree with Jimmy 100%

Shouldnt have said it to the media..but I agree with everything he said.

+1.

There are two issues here:
- Is what he said correct?
- Should he have said it publicly?

IMO, he is correct in his assertion but wrong in saying it where he did (unless he has gone through private channels many times and was blown off). I personally think that the issue about him being fundamentally correct is a FAR bigger issue than him commenting on in publicly. Seriously, he said people are outright blowing off coaching assignments. That's really not cool, even if completely unsurprising.

Her'es the thing though. Jimmy was one of those players blowing assignments. In fact, he asked Fred to give him more isolation looks, which wasn't what Fred was trying to install.

Everyone is responsible for how this team is performing and that includes Jimmy. And then he goes and airs out the dirty laundry to the public? Come on now. That was self serving.