Cousins

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

viewtopic.php?t=1178224

On Sunday, April 29, 2012, I posted:

Kirk Cousins reminds me of Drew Brees. He looks fiery and serious and sincere. Boogie Gousins has swag. I've always liked his style, even when he loses it. I thought he would be okay and I'm glad to see him having a good NBA career. Nice tie. But about KIRK Cousins ...

Donovan McNabb might be on to something in his views about Shanahan.

Why draft Kirk Cousins unless you want to breed instability and create a QB controversy if RGIII stumbles? I think it would have been best to get a veteran backup and not have two rookies in camp.

It took about three years but guess what:

http://football.realgm.com/wiretap/35807/Kanell-Kirk-Cousins-Could-Become-Next-Drew-Brees

Kanell: Kirk Cousins Could Become Next Drew Brees

Dec 3, 2015 6:46 PM

Danny Kanell believes Kirk Cousins could become the next Drew Brees.

“I think Kirk Cousins could be the next Drew Brees,” Kanell said Wednesday on ESPN Radio’s “Russillo and Kanell” show. “Tell me why he can’t.”

Brees turned the ball over as much as Cousins during the early part of his career.

Kanell attempted to explain why he thinks Cousins could follow a similar trajectory.

“I’d go in every morning on Kool 105 in Denver with J.J. and the Coach and we would talk about games,” Kanell said of his days as the Broncos’ backup quarterback with a radio gig in 2003. “We had just played the San Diego Chargers and Drew Brees was the starter and he looked awful. And we’re in there laughing about how bad he was, like, ‘Man, can you believe that guy’s a starter? How does this guy get it done? He’s got no future.’ And I was crushing him. I feel really stupid about it now, but, there’s a growth process and I think you’ve seen enough from Kirk Cousins, the ability to win games and those sort of intangibles that coaches talk about. I think he’s got ’em. Every coach that I’ve talked to, and [Michigan State Coach] Mark Dantonio was one of them, who has spent time with him, has talked about his ability to lead others and raise up the play of the guys around him. And when I look at his skill set, I see a very similar skill set to Drew Brees. Drew Brees was not the most athletic guy, he wasn’t the biggest, prototypical quarterback that you would look at, it just took a guy like [Saints Coach] Sean Payton to believe in him and say, ‘All right, you’re going to be our guy. You’re going to be our franchise.’ ”

I thought so about three years ago.

[LyricalRico]

viewtopic.php?t=1178224

On Sunday, April 29, 2012, I posted:

Kirk Cousins reminds me of Drew Brees. He looks fiery and serious and sincere. Boogie Gousins has swag. I've always liked his style, even when he loses it. I thought he would be okay and I'm glad to see him having a good NBA career. Nice tie. But about KIRK Cousins ...

Donovan McNabb might be on to something in his views about Shanahan.

Why draft Kirk Cousins unless you want to breed instability and create a QB controversy if RGIII stumbles? I think it would have been best to get a veteran backup and not have two rookies in camp.

It took about three years but guess what:

http://football.realgm.com/wiretap/35807/Kanell-Kirk-Cousins-Could-Become-Next-Drew-Brees

Kanell: Kirk Cousins Could Become Next Drew Brees

Dec 3, 2015 6:46 PM

Danny Kanell believes Kirk Cousins could become the next Drew Brees.

“I think Kirk Cousins could be the next Drew Brees,” Kanell said Wednesday on ESPN Radio’s “Russillo and Kanell” show. “Tell me why he can’t.”

Brees turned the ball over as much as Cousins during the early part of his career.

Kanell attempted to explain why he thinks Cousins could follow a similar trajectory.

“I’d go in every morning on Kool 105 in Denver with J.J. and the Coach and we would talk about games,” Kanell said of his days as the Broncos’ backup quarterback with a radio gig in 2003. “We had just played the San Diego Chargers and Drew Brees was the starter and he looked awful. And we’re in there laughing about how bad he was, like, ‘Man, can you believe that guy’s a starter? How does this guy get it done? He’s got no future.’ And I was crushing him. I feel really stupid about it now, but, there’s a growth process and I think you’ve seen enough from Kirk Cousins, the ability to win games and those sort of intangibles that coaches talk about. I think he’s got ’em. Every coach that I’ve talked to, and [Michigan State Coach] Mark Dantonio was one of them, who has spent time with him, has talked about his ability to lead others and raise up the play of the guys around him. And when I look at his skill set, I see a very similar skill set to Drew Brees. Drew Brees was not the most athletic guy, he wasn’t the biggest, prototypical quarterback that you would look at, it just took a guy like [Saints Coach] Sean Payton to believe in him and say, ‘All right, you’re going to be our guy. You’re going to be our franchise.’ ”

I thought so about three years ago.

Yep, I read that yesterday. Don't forget, Kirk is also bigger than Brees and doesn't have the shoulder injury history. Also Brees took off once he had true weapons (Colston, Bush, etc, later Graham). As the roster around him gets better, so will Kirk IMO. Gruden isn't the genius Sean Payton is, though.

As much as I like Cousins now, I have to admit that for the first couple years all I saw him as was trade bait. Not that I thought he was bad, just that I wasn't counting on him to be "the guy". But as things turned out, I see him as that now. Not a 100% finished product, but he's better than anything they could draft or sign next spring.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

We never know.

Ruz, thinks I'm being "disingenuous" touting Cousins, since I talked bad about him a bunch after some INTs. Kanell played the position at a high level, laughed at Brees from his own admission.

Kirk Cousins is hitting his stride.

I miss a bunch but I saw that in him back then.

[Ruzious]

We never know.

Ruz, thinks I'm being "disingenuous" touting Cousins, since I talked bad about him a bunch after some INTs. Kanell played the position at a high level, laughed at Brees from his own admission.

Kirk Cousins is hitting his stride.

I miss a bunch but I saw that in him back then.

No, that had nothing to do with why I said you were being disingenuous. I said you were being disingenuous because you were bragging despite the fact that you were very much against the Skins picking Cousins in the first place.

[W. Unseld]

I'm assuming this debate is over since the front office is now starting to worry that Cousins is going to be signed away. Imagine how much better he would be if he had a running game. With that said, watching him live at the Dallas game he keys in on Jordan Reed too much. DJax was open a lot and Garcon is either not getting open or Kirk just doesn't like throwing to him.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

We never know.

Ruz, thinks I'm being "disingenuous" touting Cousins, since I talked bad about him a bunch after some INTs. Kanell played the position at a high level, laughed at Brees from his own admission.

Kirk Cousins is hitting his stride.

I miss a bunch but I saw that in him back then.

No, that had nothing to do with why I said you were being disingenuous. I said you were being disingenuous because you were bragging despite the fact that you were very much against the Skins picking Cousins in the first place.

Whoa ... context is EVERYTHING.

They traded the farm to pick Griffin #1 overall.

My thoughts on draft day were Cousins could outperform Griffin in camp, as both were rookies, but Kirk the more traditional passer was a guy I thought would breed too much competition. That is NOT a don't draft Cousins sentiment.

You read that incorrectly if you deduced anything other than I thought Cousins would be a Drew Brees.

[Ruzious]

We never know.

Ruz, thinks I'm being "disingenuous" touting Cousins, since I talked bad about him a bunch after some INTs. Kanell played the position at a high level, laughed at Brees from his own admission.

Kirk Cousins is hitting his stride.

I miss a bunch but I saw that in him back then.

No, that had nothing to do with why I said you were being disingenuous. I said you were being disingenuous because you were bragging despite the fact that you were very much against the Skins picking Cousins in the first place.

Whoa ... context is EVERYTHING.

They traded the farm to pick Griffin #1 overall.

My thoughts on draft day were Cousins could outperform Griffin in camp, as both were rookies, but Kirk the more traditional passer was a guy I thought would breed too much competition. That is NOT a don't draft Cousins sentiment.

You read that incorrectly if you deduced anything other than I thought Cousins would be a Drew Brees.

No I didn't read that incorrectly. If anything, I was being too easy on you. You said Cousins was a terrible pick. I understand your caveat, but the bottom line was you said he was a terrible pick. And your caveat was crazy - and we've gone over this before. Picking another QB in the 4th round does not put pressure on a guy who you use 3 1sts and a 2nd to get. And picking Cousins in the 4th round has not been the cause of any problems RG3 had. Otherwise, how do you explain RG3 having a historically great rookie year? Cousins' presence had absolutely nothing to do with RG3's decline. Every QB needs a backup. Just the idea that a 4th round pick backup would put too much pressure on a guy you used 3 1sts and a 2nd on - is laughable. Remember, we went over Dallas picking Aikman and then using another 1st that same year to pick another QB? CCJ, I like you, but your bragging about getting it right about Cousins is wrong.

[Rafael122]

Crazy to think that at the beginning of the season we were looking at QBs in the draft, and now I'm reading about extension talks w/Cousins.

[LyricalRico]

Crazy to think that at the beginning of the season we were looking at QBs in the draft, and now I'm reading about extension talks w/Cousins.

Yep, I've always rooted for Cousins but still had the feeling that their longterm answer at QB wasn't on the roster yet. Good for him.

Amazing, though, how many seem upset that he's being successful. Almost like they would have rather he completely bomb. There's a guy at my job like that - he doesn't want the team to win the division, he wants a high draft pick for a QB.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

No, that had nothing to do with why I said you were being disingenuous. I said you were being disingenuous because you were bragging despite the fact that you were very much against the Skins picking Cousins in the first place.

Whoa ... context is EVERYTHING.

They traded the farm to pick Griffin #1 overall.

My thoughts on draft day were Cousins could outperform Griffin in camp, as both were rookies, but Kirk the more traditional passer was a guy I thought would breed too much competition. That is NOT a don't draft Cousins sentiment.

You read that incorrectly if you deduced anything other than I thought Cousins would be a Drew Brees.

No I didn't read that incorrectly. If anything, I was being too easy on you. You said Cousins was a terrible pick. I understand your caveat, but the bottom line was you said he was a terrible pick. And your caveat was crazy - and we've gone over this before. Picking another QB in the 4th round does not put pressure on a guy who you use 3 1sts and a 2nd to get. And picking Cousins in the 4th round has not been the cause of any problems RG3 had. Otherwise, how do you explain RG3 having a historically great rookie year? Cousins' presence had absolutely nothing to do with RG3's decline. Every QB needs a backup. Just the idea that a 4th round pick backup would put too much pressure on a guy you used 3 1sts and a 2nd on - is laughable. Remember, we went over Dallas picking Aikman and then using another 1st that same year to pick another QB? CCJ, I like you, but your bragging about getting it right about Cousins is wrong.

Regardless, in 2012, I said Cousins reminds me of Drew Brees. Others agree I got it right. You don't, which is well within your rights and I'm not mad at all about your opinion.

In 2015, Danny Kannell said the same thing I said three years ago. Nobody else said it then. It isn't bragging if it is indeed a point of fact.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Here's my secret playoff scenario wish:

Redskins play and defeat the Seahawks.
Cousins gets knocked out of the game and Griffin comes off the bench to defeat the same team that sent his career in the toilet. The surprise move being Gruden is forced to play Griffin.

The next week Kirk can come back at QB. I just want RG3 to get some swagger on his way out because I think he's going to have a good career moving forward, just not with the Redskins.

Ruzious, I could be wrong as heck. We'll see.

[Ruzious]

It will be interesting to see if a team lets RG3 play in a "college system" where he at least has a chance to succeed. Him no longer having great speed anymore definitely hurts, but there are other worries - biggest among them being - Can he stay healthy? And because of his lack of instincts to self-preserve - particularly sliding - but also his lack of ability to cut back on runs - I'm doubtful a team gives him the keys to their car. Other negatives - doesn't keep looking downfield (to pass) once he starts running, can't seem to throw when running towards the left side of the field, and holds onto the ball too long. Still, he was amazing as a rookie, so someone might give him a shot in a system he has a chance to succeed in.

Congrats to Kirk! Let's print the "You like that!" t-shirts.

[dobrojim]

Here's my secret playoff scenario wish:

Redskins play and defeat the Seahawks.
Cousins gets knocked out of the game and Griffin comes off the bench to defeat the same team that sent his career in the toilet. The surprise move being Gruden is forced to play Griffin.

The next week Kirk can come back at QB. I just want RG3 to get some swagger on his way out because I think he's going to have a good career moving forward, just not with the Redskins.

Ruzious, I could be wrong as heck. We'll see.

that would be an interesting story if it came to pass but how's it gonna happen if RGIII isn't
active when/if we get to the playoffs? Is he getting any reps at all during the season. He hasn't
played a single down has he?

[LyricalRico]

Here's my secret playoff scenario wish:

Redskins play and defeat the Seahawks.
Cousins gets knocked out of the game and Griffin comes off the bench to defeat the same team that sent his career in the toilet. The surprise move being Gruden is forced to play Griffin.

The next week Kirk can come back at QB. I just want RG3 to get some swagger on his way out because I think he's going to have a good career moving forward, just not with the Redskins.

Ruzious, I could be wrong as heck. We'll see.

that would be an interesting story if it came to pass but how's it gonna happen if RGIII isn't
active when/if we get to the playoffs? Is he getting any reps at all during the season. He hasn't
played a single down has he?

Exactly, it would be Colt McCoy that would come in to save the day. Heck, I'd prefer them to go to McCoy anyway even if Griffin was active. Dude is done. I'd be shocked if he has significant success going forward. Cousins will have a far better career IMO, hands down.

[LyricalRico]

It will be interesting to see if a team lets RG3 play in a "college system" where he at least has a chance to succeed. Him no longer having great speed anymore definitely hurts, but there are other worries - biggest among them being - Can he stay healthy? And because of his lack of instincts to self-preserve - particularly sliding - but also his lack of ability to cut back on runs - I'm doubtful a team gives him the keys to their car. Other negatives - doesn't keep looking downfield (to pass) once he starts running, can't seem to throw when running towards the left side of the field, and holds onto the ball too long. Still, he was amazing as a rookie, so someone might give him a shot in a system he has a chance to succeed in.

I think the "college system" idea is a non-starter from RG3's perspective. The Shanahan's scheme was brilliant and used him perfectly, but he and his dad decided they didn't want to do that anymore after the Seattle game (even though it was Griffin that hid the fact that he tweaked his knee early in the game, and then didn't let the doctors fully examine him after he was clearly limping late in the game). So wherever he goes, it's "pocket-passer-or-bust" - which will probably limit his options.

Peter King was on 980 last week saying he's thought for a long time that Andy Reid in KC would be a perfect for RG3. Basically he thinks Reid can do for Griffin what he did for Michael Vick. RG3 would be the backup behind Alex Smith, where he can theoretically learn the position, and then take over once Smith is gone (possibly as soon as 2017, based on his contract). It would be interesting to see how that might work out, but I still don't think he'll ever be great doing anything other than what he did in 2012.

[Ruzious]

It will be interesting to see if a team lets RG3 play in a "college system" where he at least has a chance to succeed. Him no longer having great speed anymore definitely hurts, but there are other worries - biggest among them being - Can he stay healthy? And because of his lack of instincts to self-preserve - particularly sliding - but also his lack of ability to cut back on runs - I'm doubtful a team gives him the keys to their car. Other negatives - doesn't keep looking downfield (to pass) once he starts running, can't seem to throw when running towards the left side of the field, and holds onto the ball too long. Still, he was amazing as a rookie, so someone might give him a shot in a system he has a chance to succeed in.

I think the "college system" idea is a non-starter from RG3's perspective. The Shanahan's scheme was brilliant and used him perfectly, but he and his dad decided they didn't want to do that anymore after the Seattle game (even though it was Griffin that hid the fact that he tweaked his knee early in the game, and then didn't let the doctors fully examine him after he was clearly limping late in the game). So wherever he goes, it's "pocket-passer-or-bust" - which will probably limit his options.

Peter King was on 980 last week saying he's thought for a long time that Andy Reid in KC would be a perfect for RG3. Basically he thinks Reid can do for Griffin what he did for Michael Vick. RG3 would be the backup behind Alex Smith, where he can theoretically learn the position, and then take over once Smith is gone (possibly as soon as 2017, based on his contract). It would be interesting to see how that might work out, but I still don't think he'll ever be great doing anything other than what he did in 2012.

That's exactly right about him refusing to play in the pistol or read option offense, but I don't think he has a choice anymore, because he's proven he doesn't have the instincts to play in any scheme that involves dropping back into a pocket - and even with rollouts, he can only go to his right. So, at least imo, it's either retire or find a coach willing to use a variation of the pistol.

[LyricalRico]

So, at least imo, it's either retire or find a coach willing to use a variation of the pistol.

Yep, that's pretty clear...to you and me. My question is whether Griffin understands that or not. Based on what I've seen of his public comments and actions, I'd lean towards saying he's still at least one more failed stop away from realizing that for himself. And by then it may be too late.

[LyricalRico]

So, at least imo, it's either retire or find a coach willing to use a variation of the pistol.

Yep, that's pretty clear...to you and me. My question is whether Griffin understands that or not. Based on what I've seen of his public comments and actions, I'd lean towards saying he's still at least one more failed stop away from realizing that for himself. And by then it may be too late.

And to add to that, even if he was willing to play a college style, any team specifically looking for a read-option QB would probably take Kaepernick first since he's bigger and has had more overall success (although RG3 had the single best season in 2012). If Griffin doesn't play this right, he could be out of the league real quick IMO.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Here's my secret playoff scenario wish:

Redskins play and defeat the Seahawks.
Cousins gets knocked out of the game and Griffin comes off the bench to defeat the same team that sent his career in the toilet. The surprise move being Gruden is forced to play Griffin.

The next week Kirk can come back at QB. I just want RG3 to get some swagger on his way out because I think he's going to have a good career moving forward, just not with the Redskins.

Ruzious, I could be wrong as heck. We'll see.

that would be an interesting story if it came to pass but how's it gonna happen if RGIII isn't
active when/if we get to the playoffs? Is he getting any reps at all during the season. He hasn't
played a single down has he?

Exactly, it would be Colt McCoy that would come in to save the day. Heck, I'd prefer them to go to McCoy anyway even if Griffin was active. Dude is done. I'd be shocked if he has significant success going forward. Cousins will have a far better career IMO, hands down.

Nobody believed me on Cousins.

Griffin is a believer, just like Kirk. Anything is possible with God. Redskin fans believe media way too much. Griffin was a Pro Bowl QB. He throws far fewer interceptions than Cousins. He can still smoke Cousins in a foot race.

Not only is he not done, but I fully expect he will start and lead teams to playoffs. RG3 will win a Super Bowl before Kirk Cousins does.

Just intuition and my opinion on 12/23/15.

Manzel has had effective games. Mariota was successful prior to injury. Whatever system they run so could Griffin.

[FreeBalling]

Where are the Cousins bashers? At least recognize Quality play when you see it.