Welcome Okafor

[76ciology]

Nobody build around bigs nowadays.

Even the slow and defensive oriented Spurs is built around Kawhi, while their offense is built around the perimeter. And that's also the reason why DMC and even AD are having trouble to win. It's something I've pointed out in the other thread about building teams.

What's the highest role for a big? For me it's the second or third member of the big three. Most of these guys are high scoring two way players. Between Jah and Noel, I see Jah as a guy who can fit being a member of a big three, a 20+ scorer with a non negative DRPM such as Bosh, LMA, Horford (3 of them have same reb% as Jah at somepoint), Love, Draymond Green & Griffin.

While I see Noel as someone that is part of a winning team but hard to be part of a big three where you can go "money ball" for cheaper replacement like Capela, Steven Adams, Mahinmi, Asik,Henson, Biyombo, Ezeli, Ed Davis and to some extent, Brandan Davis, it's pretty much what the Dallas did when Chandler walked away, they have the idea but they always came up short in the FA (almost signed DeAndre).

I think it's prerequisite to have 3 talented bigs on the team. Best example were the Thunders and Cavs who had to overpay for Kanter or Tristan despite already having their core.

The problem lies with the balance of this team if Embiid plays, when we're just projected to have either Simmons/Ingram and no one else at the perimeter while there's an insane amount of potential concentrated at the frontcourt. When you kind of need to find a way to get another star talented perimeter player to balance things, and the easiest way for now since the other assets haven't materialize yet is to trade either one of them.

[76ciology]

You can't wait forever. After next season, you've pretty much gotta commit and lock up Noel to an extension.

I'd lock him up. The new cap structure allows you to overpay for a glue guy. And we saw that with Tristan (cavs) and Kanter (OKC).

[Wilfried]

Nobody build around bigs nowadays.

Even the slow and defensive oriented Spurs is built around Kawhi, while their offense is built around the perimeter. And that's also the reason why DMC and even AD are having trouble to win. It's something I've pointed out in the other thread about building teams.

What's the highest role for a big? For me it's the second or third member of the big three. Most of these guys are high scoring two way players. Between Jah and Noel, I see Jah as a guy who can fit being a member of a big three, a 20+ scorer with a non negative DRPM such as Bosh, LMA, Horford (3 of them have same reb% as Jah at somepoint), Love, Draymond Green & Griffin.

While I see Noel as someone that is part of a winning team but hard to be part of a big three where you can go "money ball" for cheaper replacement like Capela, Steven Adams, Mahinmi, Asik,Henson, Biyombo, Ezeli, Ed Davis and to some extent, Brandan Davis, it's pretty much what the Dallas did when Chandler walked away, they have the idea but they always came up short in the FA (almost signed DeAndre).

I think it's prerequisite to have 3 talented bigs on the team. Best example were the Thunders and Cavs who had to overpay for Kanter or Tristan despite already having their core.

The problem lies with the balance of this team if Embiid plays, when we're just projected to have either Simmons/Ingram and no one else at the perimeter while there's an insane amount of potential concentrated at the frontcourt. When you kind of need to find a way to get another star talented perimeter player to balance things, and the easiest way for now since the other assets haven't materialize yet is to trade either one of them.

I follow you but I think Noel has more value than those guys you mentioned because of his pretty unique gift to guard almost everyone (small and big, perimeter and post).

Dallas won with Tyson Chandler as maybe their second most important player on the team.

Think Noel as a center, is a very good player, who won't demand a lot from your superstar to sacrifice.
Fact that Jahlil probably won't become a superstar, makes me think Noel should become our center.

[76ciology]

Nobody build around bigs nowadays.

Even the slow and defensive oriented Spurs is built around Kawhi, while their offense is built around the perimeter. And that's also the reason why DMC and even AD are having trouble to win. It's something I've pointed out in the other thread about building teams.

What's the highest role for a big? For me it's the second or third member of the big three. Most of these guys are high scoring two way players. Between Jah and Noel, I see Jah as a guy who can fit being a member of a big three, a 20+ scorer with a non negative DRPM such as Bosh, LMA, Horford (3 of them have same reb% as Jah at somepoint), Love, Draymond Green & Griffin.

While I see Noel as someone that is part of a winning team but hard to be part of a big three where you can go "money ball" for cheaper replacement like Capela, Steven Adams, Mahinmi, Asik,Henson, Biyombo, Ezeli, Ed Davis and to some extent, Brandan Davis, it's pretty much what the Dallas did when Chandler walked away, they have the idea but they always came up short in the FA (almost signed DeAndre).

I think it's prerequisite to have 3 talented bigs on the team. Best example were the Thunders and Cavs who had to overpay for Kanter or Tristan despite already having their core.

The problem lies with the balance of this team if Embiid plays, when we're just projected to have either Simmons/Ingram and no one else at the perimeter while there's an insane amount of potential concentrated at the frontcourt. When you kind of need to find a way to get another star talented perimeter player to balance things, and the easiest way for now since the other assets haven't materialize yet is to trade either one of them.

I follow you but I think Noel has more value than those guys you mentioned because of his pretty unique gift to guard almost everyone (small and big, perimeter and post).

Dallas won with Tyson Chandler as maybe their second most important player on the team.

Think Noel as a center, is a very good player, who won't demand a lot from your superstar to sacrifice.
Fact that Jahlil probably won't become a superstar, makes me think Noel should become our center.

Here are my parameters.
- Noel can't be part of a big three. But is good center for the current trend.
- Jah needs to be a non-negative defender to be part of a big 3.
- Ideally you'd want 2 perimeter players as part of your big 3.
- We're just missing one piece after Simmons and Biid.

With that said, a faster route is trading Jah for X. Big three of (X, Simmons and Biid) + Noel.
Advantage: higher chance of a quicker turn-around

An alternate route is trading Noel for X, auditioning 4 players (Simmons, Biid, Jah and X) to be our big 3.
advantage: higher chance of having strong big 3

X= perimeter player part of big three with atleast 2 ORPM, non negative defender and can average 20ppg.

[Ericb5]

You can't wait forever. After next season, you've pretty much gotta commit and lock up Noel to an extension.

You think that Noel can't be traded once he has his second contract?

Still, I think that next season is when we will have the answer to whether or not we are likely to have to trade one of them.


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[Agnostifarian]

OK4 on offense (couple of observations):

The kid is most familiar with receiving the ball in the low post and operating. Unfortunately, this leads to slow offense because he doesn't end up with the ball until 10 seconds have ticked off and he still hasn't begun to exploit his defender let alone looking for open shooters or guys cutting to the hoop. Stagnant, inefficient offense but good when protecting a lead or getting a solid (last) possession when you are trying to get that one, high percentage shot.

OK4 has expanded his integration with the offense by handling the ball more in the high post where his jump shot has become reliable enough that a big has to get up on him to contest. Though far from speedy, Jah can take most people to the hole when he's within 15 feet due to his crafty spin moves and floaters. I'd like for more of his touches to come in the high post.

Since Ish, OK4 has spent a little time working on PNR which looks brand new to him. Jah is terrible at setting picks and he has't had much success getting easy looks yet. However, I think he can figure out the two man game and once he gets some easy scoring looks and starts having fun with Ish, he can be a complete player who anchors an offense.

In all three situations, OK4 and the offense will be greatly enhanced with three point shooting but THE PACE WILL ALWAYS BE SLOWER than what is considered desirable in the current NBA and by the fans on this Board, IMO.

Posters often comment that D'Antoni, Brown and Hinkie want PACE, PACE, PACE... If true, Jah probably must go especially if Mgt/Ownership determine that his defense will never be sufficiently good enough to contend for Chips.

OK4 is more likely to become a "Big 3" member than Noel, IMO. If Jah is traded, I want to believe that the incoming player is also a potential "Big 3" player because Joel's healthy return is far from certain.

I've been watching this team for a long time and the Brad Daugherty for Roy Hinson and $750,000 in cash still burns...

[joyeuxnoel]

Theres no guarantee we get simmons or that embiid will return healthy. Only guarantees we have now are okafor, noel, and saric coming next year. Embiid, okafor, noel, and saric will probably all want to start

A healthy biid should start

Okafor as a non minus defender should start

Noel is vastly overrated on here. Hes a good defender but such a black hole on offense and not an elite rebounder. He should be traded as a package for that perimeter player "x".

Saric could be a super 6th man and imo might end up as our 2nd best big. He has no weaknesses to his game.

Hell Embiid-saric-simmons might end up as our big 3 with noel and ok4 as a package for that perimeter scoring threat

It all depends on embiid's health

My favorite lineup will be a

Kris dunn-SG-Simmons-Okafor-Embiid

And saric as a super 6th man (32 mpg)

[Mik317]

Jah is not a 4.

[HartfordWhalers]

Simmons at point, Saric at sg, Jahill at sf, Noel at pf, and Embiid at center.

If you tell me there is a problem with this plan, I'm not going to listen.

[joyeuxnoel]

Jah is not a 4.

Drop 10 pounds and hes a 4

He has the range to play the 4 on offense

Hes less of a defensive liability as a 4 than a 5. Its not even close actually

[76ciology]

Opponents shoot 5% higher than their average when they are guarded by Kevin Love.But Love averages 1.86DRPM

[Unbreakable99]

I propose we change the title of this thread from Welcome Okfor to Trade Okfor lol.

[Mik317]

Jah is not a 4.

Drop 10 pounds and hes a 4

He has the range to play the 4 on offense

Hes less of a defensive liability as a 4 than a 5. Its not even close actually

I hope you are right and I am wrong.

I'm not in charge so I am willing to wait and find out.

[Ericb5]

Jah is not a 4.

Drop 10 pounds and hes a 4

He has the range to play the 4 on offense

Hes less of a defensive liability as a 4 than a 5. Its not even close actually

I hope you are right and I am wrong.

I'm not in charge so I am willing to wait and find out.

Serious question.

In the modern NBA, is Karl Malone a 4?

I don't see why Okafor can't play the Karl Malone role of he can expand his shooting range.


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[ET Da Gawd]

Every big man is a center according to these philly fans, apparently you only need 1 big man with no offensive game and that's the key to be a run n gun chip, whoever said SAS isn't built around their bigs is a damn fool too


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[Mik317]

Drop 10 pounds and hes a 4

He has the range to play the 4 on offense

Hes less of a defensive liability as a 4 than a 5. Its not even close actually

I hope you are right and I am wrong.

I'm not in charge so I am willing to wait and find out.

Serious question.

In the modern NBA, is Karl Malone a 4?

I don't see why Okafor can't play the Karl Malone role of he can expand his shooting range.


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Karl Malone?

The guy who could win some Mr.Universe Contests and ****? That guy?

[Ericb5]

I hope you are right and I am wrong.

I'm not in charge so I am willing to wait and find out.

Serious question.

In the modern NBA, is Karl Malone a 4?

I don't see why Okafor can't play the Karl Malone role of he can expand his shooting range.


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Karl Malone?

The guy who could win some Mr.Universe Contests and ****? That guy?

Yes, him.

Again, we are talking about the scenario of Okafor losing 10 pounds, and increasing his shooting range.

Maybe he wouldn't look as good in his underwear, but even if he couldn't quite match him as an athlete, he is an even MORE skilled offensive player naturally than Malone. Granted, Malone turned into a jump shooter over his career which Okafor has not proven yet, but I see no reason why he can't do it. He is a more naturally gifted player skills wise than Malone.

Doesn't prime Malone still have trouble chasing the modern stretch 4's?

That's my point. Okafor has unique abilities that will enable him to thrive, if not star, in the NBA regardless, even if he has weaknesses that other teams will try to exploit.

The modern NBA would definitely exploit Malone with the modern stretch 4's. Draymond Green would cause Malone fits. Despite this, prime Malone is an MVP candidate in the modern league.

We want talents like Okafor on the team. He is barely freaking 20 years old! If he was this good and just turned 23 he would still be a future quality NBA starter.

Why can't we be patient with him? I don't under stand the fretting about it now like he is a perishable good. He is like a barrel aged beer. He is going to be better in 2 years.


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[joyeuxnoel]

Okafor is EXTREMELY talented on offense. Its like an endless orgasm

until the 2nd quarter starts.

You dont trade this guy, you get his conditioning on top peak and let him wreak havoc. His conditioning and hustle needs work, his defensive rebounding positioning needs work, and his defense is overall not good.

But 3 out of 4 of those can be fixed, and better conditioning can help with his defensive play too. Jah is getting better on defense game to game also

[76ciology]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/donyatesnba/status/688583583158681601[/tweet]

[76ciology]

Okafor is EXTREMELY talented on offense. Its like an endless orgasm

until the 2nd quarter starts.

You dont trade this guy, you get his conditioning on top peak and let him wreak havoc. His conditioning and hustle needs work, his defensive rebounding positioning needs work, and his defense is overall not good.

But 3 out of 4 of those can be fixed, and better conditioning can help with his defensive play too. Jah is getting better on defense game to game also

Offensively, he can be part of that big 3 role. And IMO his defense has been improving and is not that bad it's just that some rotation has been horrible and he's being compared to Porzingblock and Duncan.

If you go pages back, I pointed out his pick and roll defense where he just sags TOOOOO much into the paint. He's been moving his feet and playing better PnR defense the last two games.