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Giannis' Development

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Re: Giannis' Development 

Post#81 » by FrieAaron » Sun Jan 31, 2016 2:51 am

Apollo64 wrote:
H2tObes wrote: I wish he wasn't playing for Greece this summer so he could dedicate the offseason to learning how to shoot the 3


Funny thing is that when he played for Greece he was the shooter you want him to be. Coaches gave him the go ahead to take every open shot and keep shooting after misses, he was clanking them at first but eventually he started making them at a high clip. It's all a matter of confidence and psychology.


It doesn't really seem like Giannis doesn't have the green light this year. We heard that last season, but this season he seems pretty free to take them. He just isn't.
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Re: Giannis' Development 

Post#82 » by Dcebucks11 » Sun Jan 31, 2016 7:26 am

When Giannis shoots and he bricks a few thats when he runs into confidence problems and avoids being involved in the offense at all. Bucks need to find a way so he isn't such a liability for spacing or Giannis needs to do something with that space that helps create good look for his teammates..
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Re: Giannis' Development 

Post#83 » by ZeppelinPage » Sun Jan 31, 2016 7:35 am

You've gotta be **** me.
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Re: Giannis' Development 

Post#84 » by coolhandluke121 » Sun Jan 31, 2016 11:07 am

Magic Giannison wrote:IS there any doubt that if Giannis improves his Jumper he can easily average 20ppg?


I think he can easily average 20 even if his jumper doesn't get any better than it is now. Get him some teammates who can shoot and who know how to look for him on cuts to the basket and you're there.
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Re: Giannis' Development 

Post#85 » by Fotis St » Sun Jan 31, 2016 12:12 pm

FrieAaron wrote:
Apollo64 wrote:
H2tObes wrote: I wish he wasn't playing for Greece this summer so he could dedicate the offseason to learning how to shoot the 3


Funny thing is that when he played for Greece he was the shooter you want him to be. Coaches gave him the go ahead to take every open shot and keep shooting after misses, he was clanking them at first but eventually he started making them at a high clip. It's all a matter of confidence and psychology.


It doesn't really seem like Giannis doesn't have the green light this year. We heard that last season, but this season he seems pretty free to take them. He just isn't.


Giannis wanted really bad to go to the playoffs again... That is why he is not shooting many, so he can be efficient to help the Team to go to the playoffs. He didn't start this year as a development year for himself but as a playoff year for the Team. With the Greek NT he gained experience, he worked on his 3s and you saw how he started this season in beast mode. He started confident averagin 20+ .... but he was all alone, no Middleton showed up, no Monroe, and the Team (teammates+coaches) freezed him out, no touches, no passes on clear cuts etc, no iso plays at the post, a total mess.

So in my opinion the Bucks should sent a coach with Giannis in Greek NT, to do personal training... This summer is the quilifying round for the Olympics, and Giannis is gonna start and lead the Greek National Team !!! He can do both. Since the playoffs are a long shot, the smartest thing the Bucks should do is to tank while letting Giannis Jabari MCW work on their shooting, cut 20 FGA from Middleton, Monroe, Bayless and there you have it. Tank while developing rising stars.
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Re: Giannis' Development 

Post#86 » by greekbuck34 » Sun Jan 31, 2016 10:58 pm

Funny post-interview of Giannis after the Heat game.
He said that his parents left him to go to NY to watch Thanasis debut. Only Kostas stayed with him like a "real brother"! :lol:

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vUMGHE3mRQ[/youtube]
GHOSTofSIKMA wrote: I think that we will do worse than last season and that Giannis is now just a mere all star. All because we switched from Bud to Griffin.
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Re: Giannis' Development 

Post#87 » by Prince12 » Sun Jan 31, 2016 11:50 pm

Well, theres certainly no doubting how hard he works. The other night he sent a snapchat out at the gym hours after the miami game at like 2am. Recovery i guess but geez..
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Re: Giannis' Development 

Post#88 » by pe_it72 » Mon Feb 1, 2016 3:11 am

coolhandluke121 wrote:I've always been extremely optimistic with regard to Giannis's scoring potential, even by this board's standards. I know nearly everyone loved him, but a lot of people felt he would be more of a Kirilenko or Kukoc level scorer. However, he has such remarkable physical gifts for a guy his size that I think it's going to be very difficult to stop him even if he doesn't develop a good jumper. If he does, we could be talking a Pippen/KG hybrid. He has shown glimpses of being able to greatly improve his body control, and at his age and with his recent growth spurts that's all I need to see. I really hope they surround him with shooters though.

On a related note, that's still one of the reasons I've always wanted to trade Parker. Besides the size, conditioning, and injury, I just don't think the Bucks need him. His scoring is a nice luxury, but when you've got two likely 20+ ppg scorers with above average efficiency who also play very good defense, you can easily trade Parker to fill some other, more urgent needs. I think part of the reason people have been resistant to that idea is because they think Parker needs to be the alpha scorer, but I think people are coming around to the idea that Giannis and Middleton are very valuable offensive players in their own right.


I think that all three of our scorers are more than willing passers. I don't think Jabari is trying to be an alpha at all. That's why "experts" are down on him. He defers to teammates when he could get 6 more shots a game for himself. Just be patient. Those three are the key to the future. Do everything you can to build around them.


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Re: Giannis' Development 

Post#89 » by Prez » Mon Feb 1, 2016 4:03 am

I'm not usually a fan of these lineup numbers but I looked them up out of curiosity, the trio has a 110 ORTG and 100 DRTG over the past 10 games, for some perspective a 110 ORTG team would rank 2nd in the league and 100 DRTG would be 6th in the league. And it all matches the eye test. Giannis, Middleton, and Jabari for the most part have been playing pretty damn well together. And two of them aren't even remotely close to what they could be in a few years. You get a center that can protect the paint and a PG that can shoot/isn't a selfish moron, and this team's ceiling is extremely high. I haven't seen anything at all in recent weeks to even consider trading Jabari, he has been improving steadily every week and I have little doubts he will explode next season. A lot of the Jabari skepticism is gonna look embarrassing next year.
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Re: Giannis' Development 

Post#90 » by Shaffty » Mon Feb 1, 2016 1:59 pm

Prince12 wrote:Well, theres certainly no doubting how hard he works. The other night he sent a snapchat out at the gym hours after the miami game at like 2am. Recovery i guess but geez..



Thats why, for me at least, I never worry about "if" Giannis will reach his potential and become great. I know it will happen the kid works TOO hard for it not too.
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Re: Giannis' Development 

Post#91 » by coolhandluke121 » Mon Feb 1, 2016 8:04 pm

pe_it72 wrote:
coolhandluke121 wrote:I've always been extremely optimistic with regard to Giannis's scoring potential, even by this board's standards. I know nearly everyone loved him, but a lot of people felt he would be more of a Kirilenko or Kukoc level scorer. However, he has such remarkable physical gifts for a guy his size that I think it's going to be very difficult to stop him even if he doesn't develop a good jumper. If he does, we could be talking a Pippen/KG hybrid. He has shown glimpses of being able to greatly improve his body control, and at his age and with his recent growth spurts that's all I need to see. I really hope they surround him with shooters though.

On a related note, that's still one of the reasons I've always wanted to trade Parker. Besides the size, conditioning, and injury, I just don't think the Bucks need him. His scoring is a nice luxury, but when you've got two likely 20+ ppg scorers with above average efficiency who also play very good defense, you can easily trade Parker to fill some other, more urgent needs. I think part of the reason people have been resistant to that idea is because they think Parker needs to be the alpha scorer, but I think people are coming around to the idea that Giannis and Middleton are very valuable offensive players in their own right.


I think that all three of our scorers are more than willing passers. I don't think Jabari is trying to be an alpha at all. That's why "experts" are down on him. He defers to teammates when he could get 6 more shots a game for himself. Just be patient. Those three are the key to the future. Do everything you can to build around them.




They play fine together. I never said they didn't, and never have. That aspect of my argument has been misconstrued. It's not that they're mismatched or that they don't play well together, it's just that Jabari needs Giannis and Middleton to help hide him on defense, but Giannis and Middleton don't need Jabari.

In order to be a contender, they need a better center and lead guard than most people here are suggesting, not to mention better depth at nearly every position. I don't see why they should brain-lock themselves into building around Parker when they can get plenty of offense from playing Giannis and Middleton with the Ersans and Dudleys of the world. Those guys are generally easier to acquire, play much better defense, and find ways to contribute without having the ball in their hands as much, not to mention the flexibility they give your payroll.

Bottom line, I just don't see them having the draft picks, trade assets, and free agent desirability to build a contender around Giannis/Middleton/Parker. There's a point of diminishing returns to having 3 likely 20+ ppg scorers when you could get by with just two and trade the other one for better glue guys and role players. This team reminds me too much of the Mavs with Dirk/Finley/Nash, the Wizards with Arenas/Hughes/Jamison, or even the Bucks with Robinson/Allen/Cassell (they were almost exactly .500 in their years together, look it up before throwing that 2001 paper tiger back at me).
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Re: Giannis' Development 

Post#92 » by pe_it72 » Tue Feb 2, 2016 8:38 pm

coolhandluke121 wrote:
pe_it72 wrote:
coolhandluke121 wrote:I've always been extremely optimistic with regard to Giannis's scoring potential, even by this board's standards. I know nearly everyone loved him, but a lot of people felt he would be more of a Kirilenko or Kukoc level scorer. However, he has such remarkable physical gifts for a guy his size that I think it's going to be very difficult to stop him even if he doesn't develop a good jumper. If he does, we could be talking a Pippen/KG hybrid. He has shown glimpses of being able to greatly improve his body control, and at his age and with his recent growth spurts that's all I need to see. I really hope they surround him with shooters though.

On a related note, that's still one of the reasons I've always wanted to trade Parker. Besides the size, conditioning, and injury, I just don't think the Bucks need him. His scoring is a nice luxury, but when you've got two likely 20+ ppg scorers with above average efficiency who also play very good defense, you can easily trade Parker to fill some other, more urgent needs. I think part of the reason people have been resistant to that idea is because they think Parker needs to be the alpha scorer, but I think people are coming around to the idea that Giannis and Middleton are very valuable offensive players in their own right.


I think that all three of our scorers are more than willing passers. I don't think Jabari is trying to be an alpha at all. That's why "experts" are down on him. He defers to teammates when he could get 6 more shots a game for himself. Just be patient. Those three are the key to the future. Do everything you can to build around them.




They play fine together. I never said they didn't, and never have. That aspect of my argument has been misconstrued. It's not that they're mismatched or that they don't play well together, it's just that Jabari needs Giannis and Middleton to help hide him on defense, but Giannis and Middleton don't need Jabari.

In order to be a contender, they need a better center and lead guard than most people here are suggesting, not to mention better depth at nearly every position. I don't see why they should brain-lock themselves into building around Parker when they can get plenty of offense from playing Giannis and Middleton with the Ersans and Dudleys of the world. Those guys are generally easier to acquire, play much better defense, and find ways to contribute without having the ball in their hands as much, not to mention the flexibility they give your payroll.

Bottom line, I just don't see them having the draft picks, trade assets, and free agent desirability to build a contender around Giannis/Middleton/Parker. There's a point of diminishing returns to having 3 likely 20+ ppg scorers when you could get by with just two and trade the other one for better glue guys and role players. This team reminds me too much of the Mavs with Dirk/Finley/Nash, the Wizards with Arenas/Hughes/Jamison, or even the Bucks with Robinson/Allen/Cassell (they were almost exactly .500 in their years together, look it up before throwing that 2001 paper tiger back at me).


I'm not trying to start a big tiff here or anything. But I disagree. I think we can get the Ersans and Dudleys of the world with the assets we have. Draft picks and overpay for bench help. We can get a defensive center pretty much anywhere (our bench, Henson). We already have Vaughn and Henson as valuable pieces to our bench moving forward. Need a Combo Guard who can space the floor to split time with MCW or a pg that you draft. Add a three and D 3/4 plus a true stretch 4 and we are pretty much set.

If it is the defense that you're worried about with Jabari and Monroe, then don't play them together. Much of the same player at different positions (good interior offense and bad defense).

If you don't think MCW/Monroe fit then add them to the assets we have to acquire the talent that we need.
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Re: Giannis' Development 

Post#93 » by Greek » Wed Feb 3, 2016 9:03 am

In sum up what he is doing better this season than last year?
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Re: Giannis' Development 

Post#94 » by skones » Wed Feb 3, 2016 2:18 pm

Greek wrote:In sum up what he is doing better this season than last year?


Finishing around the rim. Added a half floater, more consistent with short jump hooks, and better at keeping his balance through contact, better footwork in the post.
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Re: Giannis' Development 

Post#95 » by KidA24 » Wed Feb 3, 2016 3:05 pm

Greek wrote:In sum up what he is doing better this season than last year?


His ability to dribble in traffic is way better.
His ability to finish around the rim is much better.
The form on his jumper is much better, even if he doesn't shoot it as much.
He's added counter moves for when he gets in the paint and guys take away his spin move.
His crossover has become lethal against slower opponents.
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Re: Giannis' Development 

Post#96 » by M-C-G » Wed Feb 3, 2016 3:13 pm

KidA24 wrote:
Greek wrote:In sum up what he is doing better this season than last year?


His ability to dribble in traffic is way better.
His ability to finish around the rim is much better.
The form on his jumper is much better, even if he doesn't shoot it as much.
He's added counter moves for when he gets in the paint and guys take away his spin move.
His crossover has become lethal against slower opponents.


Yep. I don't know how anyone could watch him this year and specifically not notice how much better he is in getting to the post and the repertoire and control he is displaying once he is in the post. Last year he probably averaged a charge per every 5-10 times he backed a guy down, this year, he is anticipating the flop and using it to his advantage.

Night and day. Seems like he gets way lower in his dribble now, along with that crossover move you mentioned.
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Re: Giannis' Development 

Post#97 » by ReasonablySober » Wed Feb 3, 2016 6:05 pm

[tweet]https://twitter.com/eric_nehm/status/694908350329458688[/tweet]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/brewhoop/status/694932125569519616[/tweet]
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Re: Giannis' Development 

Post#98 » by crkone » Wed Feb 3, 2016 6:23 pm

M-C-G wrote:
KidA24 wrote:
Greek wrote:In sum up what he is doing better this season than last year?


His ability to dribble in traffic is way better.
His ability to finish around the rim is much better.
The form on his jumper is much better, even if he doesn't shoot it as much.
He's added counter moves for when he gets in the paint and guys take away his spin move.
His crossover has become lethal against slower opponents.


Yep. I don't know how anyone could watch him this year and specifically not notice how much better he is in getting to the post and the repertoire and control he is displaying once he is in the post. Last year he probably averaged a charge per every 5-10 times he backed a guy down, this year, he is anticipating the flop and using it to his advantage.

Night and day. Seems like he gets way lower in his dribble now, along with that crossover move you mentioned.


His crab dribble or eurostep or whatever it is around the defender trying to take a charge is beautiful.

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Re: Giannis' Development 

Post#99 » by Shaffty » Wed Feb 3, 2016 6:31 pm

ReasonablySober wrote:[tweet]https://twitter.com/eric_nehm/status/694908350329458688[/tweet]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/brewhoop/status/694932125569519616[/tweet]



As i tweeted they Dont need to run more plays for them they need to run more plays where they are the ball handler. The play is wasted when it ends in a 18 foot long 2 for them, passed to them by Khris Middleton, instead of the other way around
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Re: Giannis' Development 

Post#100 » by ReasonablySober » Wed Feb 3, 2016 6:34 pm

Shaffty wrote:
ReasonablySober wrote:[tweet]https://twitter.com/eric_nehm/status/694908350329458688[/tweet]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/brewhoop/status/694932125569519616[/tweet]



As i tweeted they Dont need to run more plays for them they need to run more plays where they are the ball handler. The play is wasted when it ends in a 18 foot long 2 for them, passed to them by Khris Middleton, instead of the other way around


Given how far more advanced Middleton is in terms of playmaking, doesn't it make more sense to have him continue to refine this part of his game? I'll gladly take the bad with Middleton so long as this area of his game is tightened up and improved. He really does look like he can be our playmaking guard of the future.

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