Philly pulled out of Okafor for Nets pick last minute

[the_process]

For my own sanity, I'm going to pretend that this never happened. This front office is really starting to piss me off.

Kobble,

You know damn well if they had pulled the trigger they would get slaughtered in the local and national media.

That assumes that offer is real. Ainge loves to leak about deals he almost made, when in reality, he was never close to making it. In Ainge's mind, if he offers his worst player for your best player, it was a deal that was almost done.

[Ericb5]

I don't believe that it was just Okafor for the brooklyn pick. The Sixers could have traded the 3 spot last year if they didn't like Okafor. His value has gone up since the draft -- and that is coming from someone who was never a big fan of his.

I think it was something like Marcus Smart/Brooklyn pick for Okafor/OKC pick

I think the Nets are going to end up in the 4 or 5 spot post-lottery. They will definitely be able to get better value for Okafor right before the draft. I think they will trade him and build around the following:

C - Noel, Holmes
PF - Embiid, Saric, Grant
SF - , Covington
SG- , Stauskas
PG - , McConnell

They need starters at SF, SG, and PG.

The only way for the Sixers to have even considered a trade of Okafor to Boston imo would have been if it was something like Smart and the Nets pick for him.

When it comes down to it, despite what people like Kobble think about him individually, Okafor is a better basketball prospect(not necessarily finished product) than any of the players in this draft outside of the top 2.

We HAVE a prospect with star potential in Okafor, and trading him for a 50/50 chance at a better or worse prospect is a sucker's bet. When you have someone like Okafor you hold on to him unless you can trade him for someone with the same level of talent.

Brown or Dunn are less talented basketball players than Okafor, even in full light of Okafor's deficiencies.


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[hookshot199]

Tough life for rookies in today's NBA. Kid is having a great season as a 20 year old and all people can bring up is the things that he's not so good at.

Yeah it's a shame, certain posters live by a double standard. The same people that want to ship Okafor out are the same ones that are saying "oh give D'Angelo Russell time, he's only a rookie". The same posters that are all about using player efficiency rating to determine a players worth have ignored the fact that Okafors is above average simply because they don't like him. I don't any reason to trade Okafor unless it's for an established star player. Marcus Smart just isn't going to get it done. Embiid is a big question mark, Noel reminds me of Joakim Noah in terms of injuries happening. I just don't view as a wise decision to trade him when we have virtually no guarantees anywhere else on this roster. You'd have to an idiot to trade him just for the sake of doing so.

Well said, all of it. The only point I would make regarding the D'Angelo Russell-Jahlil Okafor comparison is that there are a lot fewer 6'11" players than 6'5" players. Russell is going to have a more difficult road ahead because of his lack of superior quickness and physicality than Okafor, same problems. Okafor has given clear signs that he'll be a 20 ppg scorer. The jury is still out on Russell. This is not meant as a criticism of Russell. But I'm happy as a Sixers fan that we have a 20-year potential elite big. And we might have three of them counting Embiid come July, August or September. Plus Saric and Holmes.

With a probable 1, 2 or 3 pick (earned by having the worst record), a possible 4 or 5 pick (50% chance if the Lakers pass the super-tanking Suns), a possible top-5 pick by way of the Sacramento pick in 2018 or 2019 (I'm beginning to lose track of the years)…and money, money, money under the cap, why would we trade Okafor a 26% chance for top-two pick for a top-two or three pick. That would be dumb.

But you're basic premise, neither team should give up on their prospects. Too soon. Both are only 20.

[XDevilBoiX]

We have a almost sure thing in Okafor, he can only improve as he gets more season. Don't know why alot of you want to trade him for a unknown right now. The pick can turn into a big bust and then we have nothing to show for, I don't want to take that chance. As everyone says this draft is weak, makes more sense to wait until draft night to see what and who's available.

Also why rush into trading away the only real asset we have, not like the return will turn us into instant contenders. If this trade does turn us into contenders then I have no problem.

[Skates]

The story and Ainge's self-congratulatory chest beating hints all seem to point to a package being offered for Okafor, not just the Nets pick. So assuming it was something like the Nets pick, Smart or Bradley, one of their young role playing bigs and maybe even a lesser first rounder thrown in, the addition of any quality guard and a decent big man replacement for Okafor this year could easily backfire by causing the team to win too much this year and vault ahead of the Lakers. Look how much better we have become with Ish, who is really barely more than a fringe NBA guy to most teams, just imagine them with a real guard and a big man who can space the floor a bit like Olynik (who is hurt at the moment, I know) alongside Noel.

No way we wold trade Okafor simply for the Nets pick, and we would get killed and rightly so for trading Okafor for a package of picks. So it would have had to be picks and players, and those players both make the package more attractive in some ways, and less in others as noted above.

Plus Hinkie and the organization now know that Okafor has a really nice market out there, and the better value for value trades come in the offseason.

[Slacktard]

Do we really know that HINKIE passed? He is still GM and running the team day to day, but maybe this is something that got shut down by someone brought in to change the image of the team trading away current actual talent for future possible rewards

[rzzzzz]

Do we really know that HINKIE passed? He is still GM and running the team day to day, but maybe this is something that got shut down by someone brought in to change the image of the team trading away current actual talent for future possible rewards

Hinkie has turned down Danny before. probably frequently. this was not as close as Danny is making out, but a possibility down the road if the Celts get hold of a good enough prospect, etc.

[Unbreakable99]

Do we really know that HINKIE passed? He is still GM and running the team day to day, but maybe this is something that got shut down by someone brought in to change the image of the team trading away current actual talent for future possible rewards

I'm willing to bet all of YOUR money that the Brooklyn pick was not included in the alleged deal. Just put yourself in Ainge's shoes. Would you do that deal and miss out on the chance to get Simmons? Hell no. Ainge is no dummy. He is not going to get the short end of a trade. Come on people. No competent GM is going to give up a chance to get Simmons to get Okafor. Now if the Brooklyn pick lands at 2 we can resist this then. I think it's possible we could trade Okafor for the second pick.

[Sixteen]

I'd also like to add that the constant criticism from the media on our team and the double standards that all Sixers rookies have to face are pushing our fans away more than the tank itself.

[Ericb5]

Do we really know that HINKIE passed? He is still GM and running the team day to day, but maybe this is something that got shut down by someone brought in to change the image of the team trading away current actual talent for future possible rewards

I'm willing to bet all of YOUR money that the Brooklyn pick was not included in the alleged deal. Just put yourself in Ainge's shoes. Would you do that deal and miss out on the chance to get Simmons? Hell no. Ainge is no dummy. He is not going to get the short end of a trade. Come on people. No competent GM is going to give up a chance to get Simmons to get Okafor. Now if the Brooklyn pick lands at 2 we can resist this then. I think it's possible we could trade Okafor for the second pick.

No competent GM would trade Okafor for a chance at Simmons either, and that is probably why the deal didn't work.

You don't trade someone like Okafor for a CHANCE at a pick.

Simmons > Okafor
Ingram = Okafor
Everyone else in this draft < Okafor




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[Unbreakable99]

Do we really know that HINKIE passed? He is still GM and running the team day to day, but maybe this is something that got shut down by someone brought in to change the image of the team trading away current actual talent for future possible rewards

I'm willing to bet all of YOUR money that the Brooklyn pick was not included in the alleged deal. Just put yourself in Ainge's shoes. Would you do that deal and miss out on the chance to get Simmons? Hell no. Ainge is no dummy. He is not going to get the short end of a trade. Come on people. No competent GM is going to give up a chance to get Simmons to get Okafor. Now if the Brooklyn pick lands at 2 we can resist this then. I think it's possible we could trade Okafor for the second pick.

No competent GM would trade Okafor for a chance at Simmons either, and that is probably why the deal didn't work.

You don't trade someone like Okafor for a CHANCE at a pick.

Simmons > Okafor
Ingram = Okafor
Everyone else in this draft < Okafor




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Agreed. Since Hinkie Didn't know where the pick would land it would be playing with fire to trade Okafor. Basically both GMs would be playing with fire if that trade went down giving up the Brooklyn pick.

[Cornbread]

As a Celtics fan, I had mixed feelings about this rumor. I agree with(what seems to be) the majority opinion that Ingram and Simmons are better prospects than Okafor, but Okafor is a better prospect than anyone three or after. And clearly, if you look at simple odds the BKN pick is at best a 25% chance of being top two.

But with that said, I don't need to tell Sixers fans that this is a leagues where the goal is to get elite level players. I would certainly take a 10% chance at an elite player rather than a 100% chance at a borderline all star.

And that is not to say those are the odds, just that it isn't as simple as saying "there's only a 25% chance it's a good trade".

And beyond just the pure talent comparison described above, I'm someone that believes it is generally speaking harder to build a winning team with a center that both isn't great defensively and doesn't space the floor. Call it an Al Jefferson/Greg Monroe complex. That isn't to say it can't be done - it certainly can. By the roster combinations that work with that style player are more limited.

Either way, I tend to doubt anything will ever come of this. Good luck going forward with your rebuild.

-Josh

[iMoreland]

I'm not trading any one of Okafor, Noel or Embiid until Embiid plays.

[spikeslovechild]

Do we really know that HINKIE passed? He is still GM and running the team day to day, but maybe this is something that got shut down by someone brought in to change the image of the team trading away current actual talent for future possible rewards

I'm willing to bet all of YOUR money that the Brooklyn pick was not included in the alleged deal. Just put yourself in Ainge's shoes. Would you do that deal and miss out on the chance to get Simmons? Hell no. Ainge is no dummy. He is not going to get the short end of a trade. Come on people. No competent GM is going to give up a chance to get Simmons to get Okafor. Now if the Brooklyn pick lands at 2 we can resist this then. I think it's possible we could trade Okafor for the second pick.

No competent GM would trade Okafor for a chance at Simmons either, and that is probably why the deal didn't work.

You don't trade someone like Okafor for a CHANCE at a pick.

Simmons > Okafor
Ingram = Okafor
Everyone else in this draft < Okafor




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If it was a good chance maybe. A 12% chance? Never

[spikeslovechild]

As a Celtics fan, I had mixed feelings about this rumor. I agree with(what seems to be) the majority opinion that Ingram and Simmons are better prospects than Okafor, but Okafor is a better prospect than anyone three or after. And clearly, if you look at simple odds the BKN pick is at best a 25% chance of being top two.

But with that said, I don't need to tell Sixers fans that this is a leagues where the goal is to get elite level players. I would certainly take a 10% chance at an elite player rather than a 100% chance at a borderline all star.

And that is not to say those are the odds, just that it isn't as simple as saying "there's only a 25% chance it's a good trade".

And beyond just the pure talent comparison described above, I'm someone that believes it is generally speaking harder to build a winning team with a center that both isn't great defensively and doesn't space the floor. Call it an Al Jefferson/Greg Monroe complex. That isn't to say it can't be done - it certainly can. By the roster combinations that work with that style player are more limited.

Either way, I tend to doubt anything will ever come of this. Good luck going forward with your rebuild.

-Josh

We don't know for sure that either of the top two selections are guaranteed elite players. Sure they could be. They could also be lesser then Okafor. They are prospects. Okafor is in large part too but we know he can dominate in this league offensively.

So what you are looking at is a 25% chance of getting the top two prospects in the draft. Giving up one of the top young players in the NBA. I don't like those odds.

[Eyeamok]

Pulling out at the last minute, is better than not pulling out at all and having regrets.

Many a young man would attest to that.

[tk76]

I don't put Simmons as a Lebron or Shaq type can't miss superstar prospect. The top 2 picks in this draft are sort of typical value top 2 pick players... while the players from 3-6 are much below average for their draft position.

[HartfordWhalers]

Do we really know that HINKIE passed? He is still GM and running the team day to day, but maybe this is something that got shut down by someone brought in to change the image of the team trading away current actual talent for future possible rewards

I'm willing to bet all of YOUR money that the Brooklyn pick was not included in the alleged deal. Just put yourself in Ainge's shoes. Would you do that deal and miss out on the chance to get Simmons? Hell no. Ainge is no dummy. He is not going to get the short end of a trade. Come on people. No competent GM is going to give up a chance to get Simmons to get Okafor. Now if the Brooklyn pick lands at 2 we can resist this then. I think it's possible we could trade Okafor for the second pick.

Ainge has said publicly that the Brooklyn pick was involved in their mystery deal.

[Cornbread]

As a Celtics fan, I had mixed feelings about this rumor. I agree with(what seems to be) the majority opinion that Ingram and Simmons are better prospects than Okafor, but Okafor is a better prospect than anyone three or after. And clearly, if you look at simple odds the BKN pick is at best a 25% chance of being top two.

But with that said, I don't need to tell Sixers fans that this is a leagues where the goal is to get elite level players. I would certainly take a 10% chance at an elite player rather than a 100% chance at a borderline all star.

And that is not to say those are the odds, just that it isn't as simple as saying "there's only a 25% chance it's a good trade".

And beyond just the pure talent comparison described above, I'm someone that believes it is generally speaking harder to build a winning team with a center that both isn't great defensively and doesn't space the floor. Call it an Al Jefferson/Greg Monroe complex. That isn't to say it can't be done - it certainly can. By the roster combinations that work with that style player are more limited.

Either way, I tend to doubt anything will ever come of this. Good luck going forward with your rebuild.

-Josh

We don't know for sure that either of the top two selections are guaranteed elite players. Sure they could be. They could also be lesser then Okafor. They are prospects. Okafor is in large part too but we know he can dominate in this league offensively.

So what you are looking at is a 25% chance of getting the top two prospects in the draft. Giving up one of the top young players in the NBA. I don't like those odds.

You're right, we don't really know how good any of these guys will be, but we know more about Okafor than the others - both good and bad. I respect someone valuing that increased certainty even if I don't agree.

Clearly if we knew Simmons would be Lebron and Ingram would be Durant then the pick would be worth more than Okafor. Even if we knew every other player in the top 10 would bust and there was a 75% chance you lose the trade - you still do it everyday of the week.

But we don't know that so there will be differences in opinion. Like I said, I completely respect someone valuing certainty over upside or more literally feeling the added upside isn't worth the lost certainty.

For me, Okafors style - no matter how talented a player he is - worries me. I think the NBA is at a point in time where that type of player isn't as valuable as they used to be. And I don't mean to throw water on your excitement about him, because if he was a Celtic I'd be really excited too, but it is the reason I would clearly prefer Simmons or Ingram.

[Unbreakable99]

Do we really know that HINKIE passed? He is still GM and running the team day to day, but maybe this is something that got shut down by someone brought in to change the image of the team trading away current actual talent for future possible rewards

I'm willing to bet all of YOUR money that the Brooklyn pick was not included in the alleged deal. Just put yourself in Ainge's shoes. Would you do that deal and miss out on the chance to get Simmons? Hell no. Ainge is no dummy. He is not going to get the short end of a trade. Come on people. No competent GM is going to give up a chance to get Simmons to get Okafor. Now if the Brooklyn pick lands at 2 we can resist this then. I think it's possible we could trade Okafor for the second pick.

Ainge has said publicly that the Brooklyn pick was involved in their mystery deal.

But didn't Ainge also say he would only part with the Brooklyn pick for a transcendent player? Okafor is not transcendent. No way he gives up Brooklyn pick for Okafor. Not in a million years. If I had to guess the player he would give up the Brooklyn pick for who could be available it would be either Jimmy Butler or DeMarcus Cousins. Okafor is not worth missing out on Simmons. Butler and Cousins are.