Oklahoma City Thunder Regular Season '15-'16 Part III

[Cuban_Linx]

...yes, Courtney Lee would have won the game for us.

Obviously not, but there's a snowball effect to having a cancer like Waiters starting. He singlehandedly killed our momentum tons of times this game.

Waiters is bad, no crap. Making a marginal move for a mediocre player that wasn't available would not have changed the outcome today. Not letting Love drop 34 might have though.

I don't know man. I feel like dropping Waiters completely out the rotation and redistributing those minutes among Morrow, Payne, and Robes would already make us competitive with the Cavs.

It's not so much the acquiring of another solid player as much as the addition by subtracting trash is what I'm getting at. Can't underestimate the runs we gave up after terrible Waiters plays.

[Cuban_Linx]

Should have waited to put Foye in the rotation. We had a groove going...


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We just lost against the Pacers... What groove?

Pacers lucked up and hit 4 threes. Turner even hit a three and he doesn't even shoot threes. Ellis hit a fading 3. They got hot late.

We are getting demolished this game. You don't change the rotation because you lose to a hot Pacers team. That's overreacting.


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Doesn't change the fact there's no groove to speak of. We shouldn't have played Foye, but that whole groove thing is not the reason.

[NaturalThunder]

Why, and how, does LeBron STILL own Durant's and the Thunder's soul at this point in his career? I can't wrap my mind around it.

[Old Man Game]

No spinning that one today. That was brutal. Team just looked listless out there. Not clear what the problem is. Maybe they're still emotionally drained from the tragedy that befell Monty's wife. Maybe it hurts being down the 2 lead assistants. Maybe they just have lots of problems and are inexplicably giving a D League caliber SG 30 minutes a night. Something's off here.

[No-Man]

No spinning that one today. That was brutal. Team just looked listless out there. Not clear what the problem is. Maybe they're still emotionally drained from the tragedy that befell Monty's wife. Maybe it hurts being down the 2 lead assistants. Maybe they just have lots of problems and are inexplicably giving a D League caliber SG 30 minutes a night. Something's off here.

The problem is the roster, you have around 5-6 players that are up to this type of level of basketball.

[getrichordie]

We just lost against the Pacers... What groove?

Pacers lucked up and hit 4 threes. Turner even hit a three and he doesn't even shoot threes. Ellis hit a fading 3. They got hot late.

We are getting demolished this game. You don't change the rotation because you lose to a hot Pacers team. That's overreacting.


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Doesn't change the fact there's no groove to speak of. We shouldn't have played Foye, but that whole groove thing is not the reason.

I disagree. We were in a great groove offensively and we were starting to pick it up defensively. 1 loss doesn't change that. We usually bounce back after a loss. We should def. bounce after this absolutely embarrassing loss. Westbrook should be yelling at everyone by this point.


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[bondom34]

There has been no groove since....well Dion has been starter.

[Cuban_Linx]

Pacers lucked up and hit 4 threes. Turner even hit a three and he doesn't even shoot threes. Ellis hit a fading 3. They got hot late.

We are getting demolished this game. You don't change the rotation because you lose to a hot Pacers team. That's overreacting.


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Doesn't change the fact there's no groove to speak of. We shouldn't have played Foye, but that whole groove thing is not the reason.

I disagree. We were in a great groove offensively and we were starting to pick it up defensively. 1 loss doesn't change that. We usually bounce back after a loss. We should def. bounce after this absolutely embarrassing loss. Westbrook should be yelling at everyone by this point.


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We were coming off a 10 day vacation, or however long the AS break is, just to go out there and score 95 points in a loss against the Pacers. You can't be in any kind of groove after a break like that and most definitely not in a good groove.

[NaturalThunder]

I can't help but thinking we'll look back at this one, seemingly meaningless regular season game in hindsight, and see it as the end of the Thunder. The Cavs didn't have Kyrie Irving for 3 quarters of the game and didn't have Iman Shumpert the entire game, and still beat us like a dog in OKC. Durant had to be (and may still be) sitting there thinking "this isn't going to cut it...ever." I mean we have two of the top 5 players in the world and we still don't have the supporting cast to hang with one of the true contenders without their second best player.

On the other hand, the "Silver Lining" hand, I keep trying to convince myself this isn't all that bad. We're down our top two assistants and the whole team is going through an emotionally trying time which might explain our overall lack of effort and "I don't care about being here" the last two games. But you still can't get your butt handed to you on your home floor by a top 3 team in the NBA without their second best player. So I don't know. We might snap out of this funk, but this also might mean we're, at best, the 4th best team in the NBA despite having two of the top five players in the world, and it might be something we look back on as what led to the end of the Durant/Westbrook Thunder.

Again, I have a tendency to badly overreact, but this loss is so hard to swallow and deal with right now. Losing to the Pacers the way we did was just maddening. This loss was maddening, demoralizing, and a little bit depressing.

[bondom34]

I can't help but thinking we'll look back at this one, seemingly meaningless regular season game in hindsight, and see it as the end of the Thunder. The Cavs didn't have Kyrie Irving for 3 quarters of the game and didn't have Iman Shumpert the entire game, and still beat us like a dog in OKC. Durant had to be (and may still be) sitting there thinking "this isn't going to cut it...ever." I mean we have two of the top 5 players in the world and we still don't have the supporting cast to hang with one of the true contenders without their second best player.

On the other hand, the "Silver Lining" hand, I keep trying to convince myself this isn't all that bad. We're down our top two assistants and the whole team is going through an emotionally trying time which might explain our overall lack of effort and "I don't care about being here" the last two games. But you still can't get your butt handed to you on your home floor by a top 3 team in the NBA without their second best player. So I don't know. We might snap out of this funk, but this also might mean we're, at best, the 4th best team in the NBA despite having two of the top five players in the world, and it might be something we look back on as what led to the end of the Durant/Westbrook Thunder.

Again, I have a tendency to badly overreact, but this loss is so hard to swallow and deal with right now. Losing to the Pacers the way we did was just maddening. This loss was maddening, demoralizing, and a little bit depressing.

Sad thing is, I left for a run at halftime, took a good long run, cleared my head. Got in after it was over, and I feel kinda the same. Not on the "end of the Thunder" part so much, because really this season wasn't a title or bust year, but it looks really bad right now. I don't see the guy leaving.

[kraytinprime]

Why, and how, does LeBron STILL own Durant's and the Thunder's soul at this point in his career? I can't wrap my mind around it.

Why? Because Lebron has a full team of competent players while Durant is stuck with Waiters, Singler, and guys who can't play a lick of defense.

[kraytinprime]

No spinning that one today. That was brutal. Team just looked listless out there. Not clear what the problem is. Maybe they're still emotionally drained from the tragedy that befell Monty's wife. Maybe it hurts being down the 2 lead assistants. Maybe they just have lots of problems and are inexplicably giving a D League caliber SG 30 minutes a night. Something's off here.

The problem is the roster, you have around 5-6 players that are up to this type of level of basketball.

Exactly. We flatout don't have enough solid players that can play both sides of the court.

I count only 4 guys that can play offense and defense at an NBA contender level: KD, Russ, Ibaka, and Adams. Thats it. And even Adams is still very limited offensively. And if Ibaka's shot is off he's useless offensively.

The rest of the team had horrible weaknesses that elite teams can exploit over and over and over again:

Waiters - flat out horrible. Literally one of the worst SG statisically in the league.
Morrow - crap on defense
Kanter - crap on defense
Singler - crap
Kanter - crap on defense
Roberson - crap on offense

You just don't have any chance beating teams like Cleveland, Spurs, and Warriors who have 8-10 solid NBA players each.

[spearsy23]

This. Dion's negative impact is very underrated.

Enough that you think he singlehandedly caused a 20 point blowout? Frankly, that's just stupid. This is exactly the type of game that shouldn't be used to justify making a move, if we lost by 3 points then it makes sense to bitch and moan.

Also, this is what you guys asked for when you wanted Scott fired seehow that works?

Ignorance indeed is bliss. This fits right into the whole season. Our wings have sucked except Roberson and it's been like that since the start of the season. Everybody knew that issue needed to be addressed, but apparently you didn't.

Everybody still knows the wings need addressed, and everybody with any luck of sense knows we don't have the assets to adequately address them right now. But go on believing PJ Tucker beats the Zcavs single-handedly.

[kraytinprime]

Enough that you think he singlehandedly caused a 20 point blowout? Frankly, that's just stupid. This is exactly the type of game that shouldn't be used to justify making a move, if we lost by 3 points then it makes sense to bitch and moan.

Also, this is what you guys asked for when you wanted Scott fired seehow that works?

Ignorance indeed is bliss. This fits right into the whole season. Our wings have sucked except Roberson and it's been like that since the start of the season. Everybody knew that issue needed to be addressed, but apparently you didn't.

Everybody still knows the wings need addressed, and everybody with any luck of sense knows we don't have the assets to adequately address them right now. But go on believing PJ Tucker beats the Zcavs single-handedly.

We did have the assets to get a quality wing.

Ibaka would have netted us two good wing players. But Presti (and you apparently) are so stuck in 1990's basketball that you have no idea that small ball has taken over. There is ZERO reason for OKC to have so many bigs: KD, Ibaka, Adams, Kanter, Collison, and McGary.

We trade Ibaka away and get 2 good wings and this team is 100% better chance to beat the elite teams.

[Old Man Game]

I just want to see Presti unload some of this trash this off season. Let Dion walk. Move Kanter if you're able. Maybe throw Singler in too if possible. Obviously, do not pick up Huestis' option in October so we can wait him out. The only guard on the bench that's worth keeping at all is Payne.

[kraytinprime]

I just want to see Presti unload some of this trash this off season. Let Dion walk. Move Kanter if you're able. Maybe throw Singler in too if possible. Obviously, do not pick up Huestis' option in October so we can wait him out. The only guard on the bench that's worth keeping at all is Payne.

To move Kanter you would need to give up assets.
To move Singler you would need to give up assets.
We are stuck with them unless we are willing to give up a 1st round pick or Payne.

This team is trash.

The only way we can solve our problem of lack of depth is trading on of big 4.

[bondom34]

Everyone sucks. Just hope the season ends. Why watch, who cares, and so on.

[kraytinprime]

Everyone sucks. Just hope the season ends. Why watch, who cares, and so on.

I'm going to watch because this is as good as it will get for the next decade. KD is gone after this year and all those ungrateful fans who bitch about Durant will realize hiw important he was.

KD leaving to GSW or Spurs just makes too much sense. Its obvious all the foot injuries has taken its toe. He can't be playing 37 minutes per game anymore. But with OKC he needs to carry such a huge load it will shorten his career.

He has accomplished every thing on an individual level. The only thing left is championships. And aftet 8 years its obvious OKC just isn't the place. If he goes to GSW its almost a lock he will win multiple championships and play way less minutes per game.

He truly did all he could. So much so he broke his foot 3 times trying to win for the city. Somethings are just not meant to be. And some mistakes (Harden trade) are just too hard to overcome.

[bondom34]

Everyone sucks. Just hope the season ends. Why watch, who cares, and so on.

I'm going to watch because this is as good as it will get for the next decade. KD is gone after this year and all those ungrateful fans who bitch about Durant will realize hiw important he was.

KD leaving to GSW or Spurs just makes too much sense. Its obvious all the foot injuries has taken its toe. He can't be playing 37 minutes per game anymore. But with OKC he needs to carry such a huge load it will shorten his career.

He has accomplished every thing on an individual level. The only thing left is championships. And aftet 8 years its obvious OKC just isn't the place. If he goes to GSW its almost a lock he will win multiple championships and play way less minutes per game.

He truly did all he could. So much so he broke his foot 3 times trying to win for the city. Somethings are just not meant to be. And some mistakes (Harden trade) are just too hard to overcome.

You're right, you should definitely hang out on the GSW board. They'd love to have you.

[slick_watts]

the thunder media seems intent on pushing this narrative that dion waiters is a solid defensive player. billy donovan himself also seems to be pushing this in interviews after waiters has a poor shooting game. however, the thunder starters with waiters are close to 10 points per 100 possessions worse than the thunder starters with roberson defensively (robes starters are the best starting unit defensively in the nba, btw). an obscene gap. both groups have gone up against a collectively league average (or thereabouts) set of opponents, offensively. i don't think there's any evidence at all to support this idea that waiters is productive on defense, save maybe some esoteric vantage tracking statistics that tell half-stories.

at any rate, it's disappointing to still see dion waiters in this kind of role 2/3 through the season. it's disappointing to see small ball all but gone. it's disappointing to see adams and kanter playing so often together, which necessarily marginalizes some of their positive qualities. it's disappointing to see cameron payne (who has been a pick and roll wizard this year) have his wings clipped with the bench unit, focusing more on pointless perimeter passing and isolating enes kanter than getting shots out of the pnr where he's been so effective.

it's not going to happen, but waiters has to be culled from the rotation as soon as possible. randy foye has been close to as bad this year, but he couldn't be much worse (and who knows maybe a return to 2013-14 form is a possibility).

one of the major things that's happened lately is the kanter-ibaka-durant-waiters-westbrook lineup falling off the cliff. that's our third most used lineup. it's always been awful on defense, being an enes kanter lineup, but it was scoring 140pp100 for a little while which was offsetting the poor defense. that hasn't been the case lately, as waiters, ibaka, and kanter's unsustainable shooting percentages in that lineup have cooled off, and the defense has been worse. with the starters unable to defend with waiters present over roberson, it becomes difficult to hold good teams back enough defensively if we're playing those kanter lineups big minutes (which we are).