Official Trade Thread - Part XXX

[Ruzious]

He's not defensive as bogut or mosgov adams
He's not offensive as val or vuc kanter
Not a drummond dwight Whiteside jordan

He's doesn't benefit the rest of the guys on the floor with his production...we need versatility down there

What you are really saying is we have crap for a GM - could have had both Drummond and/or Whiteside.

Everyone knows I think Ernie is a terrible GM -- but, no, we couldn't have had Whiteside. Sure we could have taken him instead of Seraphin at #17 or instead of Booker at #23: he went to the Kings high in R2. But the Kings cut him; he wasn't ready for the NBA. We'd have cut him too. He came back as a FA 5 years later!

We could have had Drummond, it's true. But, were you advocating that? He went #8 in 2012: he was very young, very raw, and I don't think anyone had him in the top 5. I remember thinking, and writing, that there was a chance he'd be the best player in the draft after Anthony Davis, and I'd say that's how it's turned out. "A chance," however doesn't mean you *take* that chance.

So, even though as I just said everyone knows I think Ernie is an absolutely horrible GM, I don't ding him for passing on Drummond either. Or for taking Beal for that matter.

What we could have done was sign Whiteside before Miami did. I even posted that suggestion before Miami signed him.

[deneem4]

If we were winning crucify me for talking down on gortat...but we're not...
For all the good he's doing its not enough and it isn't leading to wins....and this is one of his best seasons...
What's worse is he will only get worse from here on out...this is gortat peak, and it's not good enough to translate to wins...

[payitforward]

Look, deneem, the only thing you can possibly state is that we'd be better if we had a better Center. No one disagrees with that, because there's nothing to disagree with.

How could that statement not be true? We'd be better if we had a better Center, Power Forward, Shooting Forward, Shooting Guard, Point Guard, Bench, Coach, etc. That's true no matter what team or player or sport or whatever we are talking about.

Nor is anyone claiming that Gortat is the best Center in the league, or even one of the say half-dozen elite Centers. So, yeah, there's a list of guys who would make us better.

We could disagree about who should be *on* that list, but we can't disagree that such a list could be made. And, in fact, it's likely that we'd mostly agree about the list, although it's also certain that we'd disagree about *some* names. For example, you and I disagree about Cousins.

In fact, Cousins is that kind of guy -- people disagree about him a lot! When a guy has fabulous talent, undeniable in his case, but the results aren't at the level of the talent, people disagree. But that's true in all sports and in all walks of life for that matter.

So, lets leave him off the list for now. This being the trade thread, I'd be more than happy to discuss how we could trade for a Center better for us than Gortat -- or even one who's better for us as a backup to Gortat (which is important, obviously, because Nene is gone a month from now). That seems like a relevant subject.

Any ideas? Leaving Cousins aside?

[payitforward]

What you are really saying is we have crap for a GM - could have had both Drummond and/or Whiteside.

Everyone knows I think Ernie is a terrible GM -- but, no, we couldn't have had Whiteside. Sure we could have taken him instead of Seraphin at #17 or instead of Booker at #23: he went to the Kings high in R2. But the Kings cut him; he wasn't ready for the NBA. We'd have cut him too. He came back as a FA 5 years later!

We could have had Drummond, it's true. But, were you advocating that? He went #8 in 2012: he was very young, very raw, and I don't think anyone had him in the top 5. I remember thinking, and writing, that there was a chance he'd be the best player in the draft after Anthony Davis, and I'd say that's how it's turned out. "A chance," however doesn't mean you *take* that chance.

So, even though as I just said everyone knows I think Ernie is an absolutely horrible GM, I don't ding him for passing on Drummond either. Or for taking Beal for that matter.

What we could have done was sign Whiteside before Miami did. I even posted that suggestion before Miami signed him.

Before he played for Miami at all? Before they brought him to their team for the first time?

If so, you deserve kudos for that! He'd completely slipped my mind over the years. But once he was back in the league, playing w/ Miami, it's hard to blame Ernie for "passing on him." Though in a sense, sure. Just as all the good GMs did as well (i.e. other than Riley).

Now, I may be missing something. If so, set me straight please.

[deneem4]

I'm still down for bringing in perry jones...
Wall
Beal
Porter
Jones
Morris....

[Ruzious]

Everyone knows I think Ernie is a terrible GM -- but, no, we couldn't have had Whiteside. Sure we could have taken him instead of Seraphin at #17 or instead of Booker at #23: he went to the Kings high in R2. But the Kings cut him; he wasn't ready for the NBA. We'd have cut him too. He came back as a FA 5 years later!

We could have had Drummond, it's true. But, were you advocating that? He went #8 in 2012: he was very young, very raw, and I don't think anyone had him in the top 5. I remember thinking, and writing, that there was a chance he'd be the best player in the draft after Anthony Davis, and I'd say that's how it's turned out. "A chance," however doesn't mean you *take* that chance.

So, even though as I just said everyone knows I think Ernie is an absolutely horrible GM, I don't ding him for passing on Drummond either. Or for taking Beal for that matter.

What we could have done was sign Whiteside before Miami did. I even posted that suggestion before Miami signed him.

Before he played for Miami at all? Before they brought him to their team for the first time?

If so, you deserve kudos for that! He'd completely slipped my mind over the years. But once he was back in the league, playing w/ Miami, it's hard to blame Ernie for "passing on him." Though in a sense, sure. Just as all the good GMs did as well (i.e. other than Riley).

Now, I may be missing something. If so, set me straight please.

Yuppers, I think I came across his name while skimming through international stats on draftexpress.com. His stats in China were off the charts, so I couldn't help noticing them. So, I looked him up, and he had some similar stats in the D League. It didn't take a genious to think he'd at least be worth a minimum contract.

[Dark Faze]

those are really low bars

its really hard not to have god like stats in china and the d league

[Ruzious]

those are really low bars

its really hard not to have god like stats in china and the d league

Not when his stats were better than everyone else's in both leagues - and I'm pretty sure they were. When you know the kid was as physically gifted as anyone in the NBA (and he was when Sac drafted him in the 2nd round after picking Cousins), you're a moron if you don't take a look at him.

[nate33]

He's not defensive as bogut or mosgov adams
He's not offensive as val or vuc kanter
Not a drummond dwight Whiteside jordan

He's doesn't benefit the rest of the guys on the floor with his production...we need versatility down there

What you are really saying is we have crap for a GM - could have had both Drummond and/or Whiteside.

Everyone knows I think Ernie is a terrible GM -- but, no, we couldn't have had Whiteside. Sure we could have taken him instead of Seraphin at #17 or instead of Booker at #23: he went to the Kings high in R2. But the Kings cut him; he wasn't ready for the NBA. We'd have cut him too. He came back as a FA 5 years later!

We could have had Drummond, it's true. But, were you advocating that? He went #8 in 2012: he was very young, very raw, and I don't think anyone had him in the top 5. I remember thinking, and writing, that there was a chance he'd be the best player in the draft after Anthony Davis, and I'd say that's how it's turned out. "A chance," however doesn't mean you *take* that chance.

So, even though as I just said everyone knows I think Ernie is an absolutely horrible GM, I don't ding him for passing on Drummond either. Or for taking Beal for that matter.

Agreed. Picking Beal at the time was pretty much the consensus pick. Hard to knock EG for that. The mistake was in the prior draft when he took Vesely. If he would have taken Klay or Kawhi, then we probably would have had the 5th or 6th pick in the 2012 draft with Beal off the table. Drummond would have made a lot more sense in that scenario.

Imagine, a team with Wall, Kawhi and Drummond! (Not to mention that cap room saved by not needing Gortat.)

[TheSecretWeapon]

I'm still down for bringing in perry jones...
Wall
Beal
Porter
Jones
Morris....

Jones was a bad NBA player. He was terrible in five games in the D-League this season. No reason to think he'd be any good in Washington.

[payitforward]

What we could have done was sign Whiteside before Miami did. I even posted that suggestion before Miami signed him.

Before he played for Miami at all? Before they brought him to their team for the first time?

If so, you deserve kudos for that! He'd completely slipped my mind over the years. But once he was back in the league, playing w/ Miami, it's hard to blame Ernie for "passing on him." Though in a sense, sure. Just as all the good GMs did as well (i.e. other than Riley).

Now, I may be missing something. If so, set me straight please.

Yuppers, I think I came across his name while skimming through international stats on draftexpress.com. His stats in China were off the charts, so I couldn't help noticing them. So, I looked him up, and he had some similar stats in the D League. It didn't take a genious to think he'd at least be worth a minimum contract.

Ok, fair enough -- if only you'd known Ernie's mobile #!!

[deneem4]

Look, deneem, the only thing you can possibly state is that we'd be better if we had a better Center. No one disagrees with that, because there's nothing to disagree with.

How could that statement not be true? We'd be better if we had a better Center, Power Forward, Shooting Forward, Shooting Guard, Point Guard, Bench, Coach, etc. That's true no matter what team or player or sport or whatever we are talking about.

Nor is anyone claiming that Gortat is the best Center in the league, or even one of the say half-dozen elite Centers. So, yeah, there's a list of guys who would make us better.

We could disagree about who should be *on* that list, but we can't disagree that such a list could be made. And, in fact, it's likely that we'd mostly agree about the list, although it's also certain that we'd disagree about *some* names. For example, you and I disagree about Cousins.

In fact, Cousins is that kind of guy -- people disagree about him a lot! When a guy has fabulous talent, undeniable in his case, but the results aren't at the level of the talent, people disagree. But that's true in all sports and in all walks of life for that matter.

So, lets leave him off the list for now. This being the trade thread, I'd be more than happy to discuss how we could trade for a Center better for us than Gortat -- or even one who's better for us as a backup to Gortat (which is important, obviously, because Nene is gone a month from now). That seems like a relevant subject.

Any ideas? Leaving Cousins aside?

I'm going to be hated for this...but I think our best and cheapest option would be picking Pierre up in the offseason...

[deneem4]

javale mcgee would be our best option and cheapest available...
I think he's the equivalent of whiteside...whiteside jus so happens to go to the most veteran based organization...
if we fail to get durant we might be able to get parsons and McGee for gortat and Porter...
Il hate losing Porter but parsons is more developed and can play the 4 in small ball...
We would also have money for almost a max even with the addition...(horford)
Wall/
Beal/oubre
Parson/
Morris/nene
horford/McGee
I think that's a legit contender if we can fill out the bench in a smart manner...

Parsons is a great recruiter...he might can entice horford to come here

Dallas gets good value for parsons

[Ruzious]

Look, deneem, the only thing you can possibly state is that we'd be better if we had a better Center. No one disagrees with that, because there's nothing to disagree with.

How could that statement not be true? We'd be better if we had a better Center, Power Forward, Shooting Forward, Shooting Guard, Point Guard, Bench, Coach, etc. That's true no matter what team or player or sport or whatever we are talking about.

Nor is anyone claiming that Gortat is the best Center in the league, or even one of the say half-dozen elite Centers. So, yeah, there's a list of guys who would make us better.

We could disagree about who should be *on* that list, but we can't disagree that such a list could be made. And, in fact, it's likely that we'd mostly agree about the list, although it's also certain that we'd disagree about *some* names. For example, you and I disagree about Cousins.

In fact, Cousins is that kind of guy -- people disagree about him a lot! When a guy has fabulous talent, undeniable in his case, but the results aren't at the level of the talent, people disagree. But that's true in all sports and in all walks of life for that matter.

So, lets leave him off the list for now. This being the trade thread, I'd be more than happy to discuss how we could trade for a Center better for us than Gortat -- or even one who's better for us as a backup to Gortat (which is important, obviously, because Nene is gone a month from now). That seems like a relevant subject.

Any ideas? Leaving Cousins aside?

I'm going to be hated for this...but I think our best and cheapest option would be picking Pierre up in the offseason...

Javale actually did take a step up as a rebounder for Dallas last season. We could do worse (Seraphin) for a backup center, but he's not the next Whiteside.

[deneem4]

Look, deneem, the only thing you can possibly state is that we'd be better if we had a better Center. No one disagrees with that, because there's nothing to disagree with.

How could that statement not be true? We'd be better if we had a better Center, Power Forward, Shooting Forward, Shooting Guard, Point Guard, Bench, Coach, etc. That's true no matter what team or player or sport or whatever we are talking about.

Nor is anyone claiming that Gortat is the best Center in the league, or even one of the say half-dozen elite Centers. So, yeah, there's a list of guys who would make us better.

We could disagree about who should be *on* that list, but we can't disagree that such a list could be made. And, in fact, it's likely that we'd mostly agree about the list, although it's also certain that we'd disagree about *some* names. For example, you and I disagree about Cousins.

In fact, Cousins is that kind of guy -- people disagree about him a lot! When a guy has fabulous talent, undeniable in his case, but the results aren't at the level of the talent, people disagree. But that's true in all sports and in all walks of life for that matter.

So, lets leave him off the list for now. This being the trade thread, I'd be more than happy to discuss how we could trade for a Center better for us than Gortat -- or even one who's better for us as a backup to Gortat (which is important, obviously, because Nene is gone a month from now). That seems like a relevant subject.

Any ideas? Leaving Cousins aside?

I'm going to be hated for this...but I think our best and cheapest option would be picking Pierre up in the offseason...

Javale actually did take a step up as a rebounder for Dallas last season. We could do worse (Seraphin) for a backup center, but he's not the next Whiteside.

I meant in the sense of whiteside and McGee being extremely athletic but both extremely immature...I don't think whiteside would've succeeded if he didn't go to Miami...he has a lot of character issues...but when Pat Riley your boss.....

[gambitx777]

McGee and whiteside are not really all that comparable maturity wise, Mcgee is a bone head, White side is a hot head! There is a huge difference in the two. Whitesides main problem is his anger and his control or lack there of pertaining to said anger and aggression. McGee's main issue was his lack of a brain.

[nate33]

McGee's main issue is that he doesn't seem to care about basketball. I don't know if that issue has gotten better or worse with maturity. If it has gotten better, than I agree that McGee might be a good pickup at backup center for the vet minimum.

[TheSecretWeapon]

McGee was diagnosed with ADHD. He declined medication. Not a bad guy or a dummy, but probably not someone you'd want to rely on in a significant role.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Gortat is alright. He's on a good contract, no sign of slowing down really, good locker room guy. The main issue is we really need an equally good player alongside him at PF. Markieff isn't that.

Cousins is.

[AFM]

Gortat is alright. He's on a good contract, no sign of slowing down really, good locker room guy. The main issue is we really need an equally good player alongside him at PF. Markieff isn't that.

Cousins is.

Durant. Don't give up on the dream.