OT: Terrorist attacks in Paris

[TheSuzerain]

The reason people get irrationally frightened by terrorism is the randomness of it.

Most people are able to explain away most causes of death that are statistically much more likely to befall them.

I'm healthy. I'm smart. I'm a good driver. I'd never be suicidal. I respect police. I'm not in a gang.

But terrorism? They can't explain it away. So it deeply troubles them and receives an extremely inordinate amount of attention compared to other causes of death.

[musiqsoulchild]

What is proposal here? Segregate the Muslim and the non Muslim world? Yeah that won't work. If these two "factions" have a problem with each other now, then separating them would just make them both susceptible to propaganda and probably result in a big war. Yeah no thanks.

I don't think "propaganda" is the problem facing the world right now. I think a slightly bigger problem is those people blowing themselves up in airports and train stations in an attempt to force their religion on the non-believers.

I fail to see how opening the gates to them does anything good for us.

So what's the end result you're hoping for here? You know this conflict won't end with a closed gate policy. Hate would just propagate more and it's not like this policy would be 100% effective and might just result in escalation. Making a thicker wall would need a bigger bomb. And when that happens then it's war time again. You're setting up the world to burn.

The pretense is that Isolationism works.

It doesnt.

[musiqsoulchild]

The reason people get irrationally frightened by terrorism is the randomness of it.

Most people are able to explain away most causes of death that are statistically much more likely to befall them.

I'm healthy. I'm smart. I'm a good driver. I'd never be suicidal. I respect police. I'm not in a gang.

But terrorism? They can't explain it away. So it deeply troubles them and receives an extremely inordinate amount of attention compared to other causes of death.

Spot on.....the "Why?" of it is the horrendous, soul crushing internal dialogue.

[RebuildaBulls]

They declared war on the jewish tribe for allying with Meccan tribes that were attacking Muhammad's Muslims during a battle. I don't believe that's a terrible reason.

Mohammad attacked the Meccan tribes because they did not accept him, its in the Hadiths. Ah but whatever Ill read more tonight, sharpen my Islam

He was driven out of Mecca by them after the Muslims were oppressed, boycotted, beaten, tortured, and humiliated in Mecca.

The first three conflicts between the Meccan tribes and Muhammad's Muslims in Medina after he was driven out were Meccan's advancing on Medina, so it was the Muslims being defensive.

Although the second conflict, Muhammad sent a group to raid a Meccan caravan, and the advance on Medina was retaliation for that.

i think you have it mixed up, he was trying to impose islam on the pagans in mecca and they resisted. he inevitably decieved them with the satanic verses about allah's daughters and retracted it later on. i kinda forgot but like Darth said i believe its in the Hadiths in detail. i thought about converting long ago till i read eveything and thank God i didnt go through with it. i regret even thinking about it

[AKfanatic]

No, if it was called "Terrorismphobia" it would be a paradox. You should be fearing terrorists, not Islam, that's your problem.

Since all major terrorist attacks in our age are carried out by Mulsims, it's perfectly rational and human to fear Islam.

Only a liar would say that he would walk into an airport and not fear Muslims.

Dang Muslims terrorizing communities with violence

[CBS7]

They declared war on the jewish tribe for allying with Meccan tribes that were attacking Muhammad's Muslims during a battle. I don't believe that's a terrible reason.

Mohammad attacked the Meccan tribes because they did not accept him, its in the Hadiths. Ah but whatever Ill read more tonight, sharpen my Islam

Actually, there was also an embargo on the Muslims after they migrated to Medina. It is more than not accepting him. There was no violence while they were in Mecca, it was the Meccan group that started abusing the new Muslims which led to a small migration to Abyssinia and later Medina. There was then an embargo, and a caravan from the Meccans that were trading the belongings of the Muslims which led to the first war.

It doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things because it is irrelevant to this discussion and the motivations of people. For every verse in any religious text someone posts or says about encouraging violence there is another two that preach peace. And even in those verses that encourage violence there typically is some context behind it. But again, there is a larger systematic problem aside from religion that encourages all violence.

I typically don't post in political threads because it doesn't serve any purpose. Innocent people are dying and we are here trying to debate on who's right and who's wrong. Irrelevant.

Quality post.

[TimRobbins]

Terrorism isn't done exclusively by Muslims either - but you'll disagree because you'll put arbitrary restrictions on what a terrorist act is and who and who isn't considered a terrorist group.

Actually they aren't that arbitrary at all - if its a violent act by a Muslim, its a terrorist attack.

False. You're just being deliberately obtuse here.

I'm not putting any "arbitrary" restrictions on anything. Muslims are the only people blowing themselves up at airports and train stations. As much as you would like reality to be different, it isn't. Sorry.

[CBS7]

Mohammad attacked the Meccan tribes because they did not accept him, its in the Hadiths. Ah but whatever Ill read more tonight, sharpen my Islam

He was driven out of Mecca by them after the Muslims were oppressed, boycotted, beaten, tortured, and humiliated in Mecca.

The first three conflicts between the Meccan tribes and Muhammad's Muslims in Medina after he was driven out were Meccan's advancing on Medina, so it was the Muslims being defensive.

Although the second conflict, Muhammad sent a group to raid a Meccan caravan, and the advance on Medina was retaliation for that.

i think you have it mixed up, he was trying to impose islam on the pagans in mecca and they resisted. he inevitably decieved them with the satanic verses about allah's daughters and retracted it later on. i kinda forgot but like Darth said i believe its in the Hadiths in detail. i thought about converting long ago till i read eveything and thank God i didnt go through with it. i regret even thinking about it

Unless everything I've read has been wrong, I most certainly do not have this part wrong. All of the major conflicts between Mecca/Medina between the pilgrimage to Medina and the conquest of Mecca were on neutral ground or in Medina. (Badr/Uhud were on neutral ground, the Trench was in/around Medina) The conquest of Mecca itself even was a relatively peaceful affair.

I've also never heard of any satanic "allah's daughters" verses either.

[musiqsoulchild]

Who's forcing the Islamic faith on you, Tim Robbins?

The propaganda from **** clowns like Trump, or is someone coming to your home and asking you to convert to Islam?

Who's forcing the Islamic faith on anyone in the Western world?

There are tens of Millions (if not hundreds of millions) of people on this earth who believe Islam and sharia law should be forced on all non-believers. Are you unaware of this?

So no, they are currently unable to come to my home and force me to convert or die, but there isn't a shortage of people who would like to do that if they could.

Who is forcing Islamic faith in the Western World? What do you think the attacks were about today? Have you heard of ISIS?

I believe 3 of the victims today were Mormon missionaries. Like Catholic and Christian missionaries, their job is to travel the world and find villages, under-represented communities, poverty stricken families and convert them. Thats what you do if you want convert people to your faith.

You dont kill people en masse like ISIS is doing if your objective is to convert more people to Islam.

ISIS is not forcing the Islamic faith on the Western world. Thats preposterous. People will convert if you kill them or threaten to kill them. But they also flee in large numbers when crazy stuff like that happens. ISIS is trying to bring about the end of times - thats their end game; not proselytization. Thats just an incidental benefit - a way for them to spend another boring day between bombings, beheadings and burnings.

There is nothing wrong in wanting more people to believe your faith. But I have a hard time believing that hundreds of Millions of Muslims want to FORCE their faith and Sharia law on me.

I am just not that important.

[CBS7]

Terrorism isn't done exclusively by Muslims either - but you'll disagree because you'll put arbitrary restrictions on what a terrorist act is and who and who isn't considered a terrorist group.

Actually they aren't that arbitrary at all - if its a violent act by a Muslim, its a terrorist attack.

False. You're just being deliberately obtuse here.

I'm not putting any "arbitrary" restrictions on anything. Muslims are the only people blowing themselves up at airports and train stations. As much as you would like reality to be different, it isn't. Sorry.

Again, your issue is your definition of terrorism.

Shooting up a theater or a kindergarten, or the events cited in this thread that took place in India and the Philippines aren't terrorist attacks - but any violent act by a Muslim is.

[RebuildaBulls]

He was driven out of Mecca by them after the Muslims were oppressed, boycotted, beaten, tortured, and humiliated in Mecca.

The first three conflicts between the Meccan tribes and Muhammad's Muslims in Medina after he was driven out were Meccan's advancing on Medina, so it was the Muslims being defensive.

Although the second conflict, Muhammad sent a group to raid a Meccan caravan, and the advance on Medina was retaliation for that.

i think you have it mixed up, he was trying to impose islam on the pagans in mecca and they resisted. he inevitably decieved them with the satanic verses about allah's daughters and retracted it later on. i kinda forgot but like Darth said i believe its in the Hadiths in detail. i thought about converting long ago till i read eveything and thank God i didnt go through with it. i regret even thinking about it

Unless everything I've read has been wrong, I most certainly do not have this part wrong. All of the major conflicts between Mecca/Medina between the pilgrimage to Medina and the conquest of Mecca were on neutral ground or in Medina. (Badr/Uhud were on neutral ground, the Trench was in/around Medina) The conquest of Mecca itself even was a relatively peaceful affair.

I've also never heard of any satanic "allah's daughters" verses either.

look it up in the quran, some of it is in the hadith. he said it was from the devil

[League Circles]

Mohammad attacked the Meccan tribes because they did not accept him, its in the Hadiths. Ah but whatever Ill read more tonight, sharpen my Islam

He was driven out of Mecca by them after the Muslims were oppressed, boycotted, beaten, tortured, and humiliated in Mecca.

The first three conflicts between the Meccan tribes and Muhammad's Muslims in Medina after he was driven out were Meccan's advancing on Medina, so it was the Muslims being defensive.

Although the second conflict, Muhammad sent a group to raid a Meccan caravan, and the advance on Medina was retaliation for that.

i think you have it mixed up, he was trying to impose islam on the pagans in mecca and they resisted. he inevitably decieved them with the satanic verses about allah's daughters and retracted it later on. i kinda forgot but like Darth said i believe its in the Hadiths in detail. i thought about converting long ago till i read eveything and thank God i didnt go through with it. i regret even thinking about it

Just FYI some muslims do not belief in the hadiths and consider them similar to how they perceive the bible - substantially human produced fiction.

[kingkirk]

There are tens of Millions (if not hundreds of millions) of people on this earth who believe Islam and sharia law should be forced on all non-believers. Are you unaware of this?

So no, they are currently unable to come to my home and force me to convert or die, but there isn't a shortage of people who would like to do that if they could.

Who is forcing Islamic faith in the Western World? What do you think the attacks were about today? Have you heard of ISIS?

I hadn’t heard of ISIS. Thank you for informing. I’ll get to work on my underground bunker to protect me from a Holy War as soon as I get home from work.

So no one is currently coming to your home and forcing Islam on you, but you fear them? Hmmm.

I think those in the Muslims in Middle East and Africa, who’ve been victimised by those of their own religion, have far more to fear than you, Tim.

[CBS7]

Tim, if a Caucasian man shot up a public place, killing several, and after an investigation it is discovered that he owned a Koran, would you consider it a terrorist attack?

[RebuildaBulls]

He was driven out of Mecca by them after the Muslims were oppressed, boycotted, beaten, tortured, and humiliated in Mecca.

The first three conflicts between the Meccan tribes and Muhammad's Muslims in Medina after he was driven out were Meccan's advancing on Medina, so it was the Muslims being defensive.

Although the second conflict, Muhammad sent a group to raid a Meccan caravan, and the advance on Medina was retaliation for that.

i think you have it mixed up, he was trying to impose islam on the pagans in mecca and they resisted. he inevitably decieved them with the satanic verses about allah's daughters and retracted it later on. i kinda forgot but like Darth said i believe its in the Hadiths in detail. i thought about converting long ago till i read eveything and thank God i didnt go through with it. i regret even thinking about it

Just FYI some muslims do not belief in the hadiths and consider them similar to how they perceive the bible - substantially human produced fiction.

if you are Sunni you believe in the Hadith, you have no choice. i know for Shia its optional

[cammac]

Can't tell at first glance? Oh boy.

"Oh look, there's a Muslim man walking down the street. He's probably OK, but who can tell these days? We should probably ban his faith, just to be sure."

Ban his faith? Where are you making these things up?
Nobody is banning any faith. The only thing being banned is their ability to force their faith on others.

Then lets start banning Jehovah Witnesses, Mormons, Scientology, Moonies.

[AKfanatic]

I'd say the Christian warriors bombing abortion clinics, shooting up planned parenthood's, targeting "liberals", etc...etc...are just as concerning, if not more than a Muslim terrorists. But I suppose since they don't have a Muslim holy man feeding them hate and instead have guys like Limbaugh, Beck, Sarah Palin pushing a "revolition" or a war on Christians narrative it's different. Let's not begin to talk about the holy men some of our leaders pander to that push an agenda of death to gays.

[otwok]

i think you have it mixed up, he was trying to impose islam on the pagans in mecca and they resisted. he inevitably decieved them with the satanic verses about allah's daughters and retracted it later on. i kinda forgot but like Darth said i believe its in the Hadiths in detail. i thought about converting long ago till i read eveything and thank God i didnt go through with it. i regret even thinking about it

Just FYI some muslims do not belief in the hadiths and consider them similar to how they perceive the bible - substantially human produced fiction.

if you are Sunni you believe in the Hadith, you have no choice. i know for Shia its optional

You do know that there are levels of strength in Hadith and there are many fabricated Hadith right? Also, the quran holds more weight than Hadith.

And yes, you do have a choice in everything.

[League Circles]

i think you have it mixed up, he was trying to impose islam on the pagans in mecca and they resisted. he inevitably decieved them with the satanic verses about allah's daughters and retracted it later on. i kinda forgot but like Darth said i believe its in the Hadiths in detail. i thought about converting long ago till i read eveything and thank God i didnt go through with it. i regret even thinking about it

Just FYI some muslims do not belief in the hadiths and consider them similar to how they perceive the bible - substantially human produced fiction.

if you are Sunni you believe in the Hadith, you have no choice. i know for Shia its optional

Hahaha

Do you believe that all muslims are Sunni or Shia? A LOT of muslims would never identify as Sunni or Shia because sects are clearly not supposed to be part of the muslim way of life as described in the quran.

And what do you mean you have no choice? Everyone has a choice in what they believe. Beliefs are thoughts. They are free by definition.

[RebuildaBulls]

i know i am biased but i think grouping christianity and muslim as just two crazy religions is insane. Jesus was sinless and taught to love each other whose kingdom was in heaven. Mohammad was a warlord whose kingdom is of the this earth, needed to conquer and who said heaven is under the shade of a sword.

Now take out christians and muslims because they are the worst examples, in simple terms, who was a better role model for your kids?