Ben Simmons

[HeartBreakKid]

The over hyping happens every year. Wiggins was called the best prospect since Lebron coming into his freshman year. Last year everyone was saying Jahlil was the most offensively skilled big since Tim Duncan. These guys fail to live up to the hype the media creates and in turn fans seem to turn on the players as if its their fault.

The Wiggins hype was absurd but Jahlil? He did have the best offensive season for an NCAA freshman big in a long ass time (by that I mean ever). Plus he was 2nd in Naismith Voting and he won the National Championship. How he was a disappointment in college at all is beyond me.

Far from disappointment. He was a pleasure to watch while he was in college. However the moment Karl-Anthony Towns gained some steam, the media began to tear him down. Its happening now with Simmons and Ingram. The media is bringing down Simmons and proving Ingram up. When Wiggins was in college he was touted as the best prospect since Lebron, and towards the end of the season the media turned on him calling him to passive and saying things like he might not even be the best guy on his own team because Embiid's draft stock skyrocketed until injuries derailed it.

Its as if the media doesn't allow for there to be more than one outstanding prospect. One gets elevated above the rest while the others seem to be put down.

I think Wiggins not being on the level of LBJ had more to do with people turning on Wiggins more than anything. I mean even after Embiid went down, people were still relatively disappointed with Wiggins.

[scrabbarista]

I'm just popping in to officially rescind everything I've said in this thread. Been watching a little bit of Ingram lately. I still take Simmons, but I dunno, maybe I take Ingram.

I'm only mostly kidding.

[Dr Positivity]

What is the opinion on his basketball IQ? Obviously he is a special passer for a PF, but is he a hyper intelligent offensive player like Lebron or just good throwing passes?

[crazy_me_87]

What is the opinion on his basketball IQ? Obviously he is a special passer for a PF, but is he a hyper intelligent offensive player like Lebron or just good throwing passes?

His BBIQ is supposedly one of his Biggest strenghts. If it is truly on Lebrons Level is hard to judge ..but quite honestly thats not a knock on a 19yo Kid. He tries to make the right play at all times and puts winning over his own stats(wich was a mistake at LSU and could be like with Lebron lead to people saying he is too selfless)

[kobe2dlo]

Simmons floor to me is Lamar Odom. Ceiling is pippen if he ever learns to use his athleticism to play d. my main fear with him is work ethic/desire. He clearly didn't care about winning if he went to lsu. And there's articles about him where people on the Aussie national team don't like him because he thinks he's too good for them. Who knows what to believe when it comes to character since none of him know him personally but if my lakers get the first pick I hope Mitch puts more weight into the interview than anything else. We have seen the skills he has to offer. We need to see the killer mentality

[JRSG]

He cared about winning, I just think he (naively) genuinely thought he could go to LSU and win it with them which would've been a preposterous achievement. He's a competitor, that was one of the things people were most sure about based on his 3 years at high school in Florida and all his pre-college camps. He just wanted to win everything.

[saintEscaton]

Simmons floor to me is Lamar Odom. Ceiling is pippen if he ever learns to use his athleticism to play d. my main fear with him is work ethic/desire. He clearly didn't care about winning if he went to lsu. And there's articles about him where people on the Aussie national team don't like him because he thinks he's too good for them. Who knows what to believe when it comes to character since none of him know him personally but if my lakers get the first pick I hope Mitch puts more weight into the interview than anything else. We have seen the skills he has to offer. We need to see the killer mentality

His floor is Lamar Odom? think some underrate how good he was in his prime, Simmons is not as offensively advanced in the half court set up. Worst case scenario I see a more cerebral/bigger Evan Turner who can put up triple doubles. Don't see the Pippen comp at all, Simmons doesn't have the measurables or instincts of a lockdown wing defender, if he can't body up NBA 4s he will be a tweener on the other end. Ideally he should play next to a non ball-dominant PG as a secondary playmaker who thrives in transition

[Duke4life831]

Simmons floor to me is Lamar Odom. Ceiling is pippen if he ever learns to use his athleticism to play d. my main fear with him is work ethic/desire. He clearly didn't care about winning if he went to lsu. And there's articles about him where people on the Aussie national team don't like him because he thinks he's too good for them. Who knows what to believe when it comes to character since none of him know him personally but if my lakers get the first pick I hope Mitch puts more weight into the interview than anything else. We have seen the skills he has to offer. We need to see the killer mentality

His floor is Lamar Odom? think some underrate how good he was in his prime, Simmons is not as offensively advanced in the half court set up. Worst case scenario I see a more cerebral/bigger Evan Turner who can put up triple doubles. Don't see the Pippen comp at all, Simmons doesn't have the measurables or instincts of a lockdown wing defender, if he can't body up NBA 4s he will be a tweener on the other end. Ideally he should play next to a non ball-dominant PG as a secondary playmaker who thrives in transition

Agreed 100%. Prime Odom was legit. If Simmons becomes that than the fan base for that team who drafted him should be very happy. And ya don't get the Pippen or Green comparisons people are throwing around, those two are flat out superstar defenders. Pippen is known as one of the greatest perimeter defenders ever and Green is probably a top 2 defender right now. Thats my biggest issue with Simmons, he gets a lot of comparisons to successful players who can't shoot, but almost all of those guys are really really good defenders. Simmons has a ways to go just to become an okay defender. He's really bad on that side of the ball right now.

[GimmeDat]

Lamar is the quintessential comparison, and has been for a long time now, for me with Simmons. There's more question marks with Simmons' game, but if he gets the jumper worked out, which might take him a few seasons, he will great.

[crazy_me_87]

I can see the Lamar Odom comps... but please people.. Lamar is not Bens absolute Ceiling...
Lamar was a high end Role Player with a career stat line of 13.3/8.3/3.7..

Ben is more athletic,has even better Handles and Passing... and most of all he does not have the mental problems all this drama did to Lamar..
People cant be so down on Ben to think he wont even make 1 All Star game... c'mon people..

Ben besides all troubles at LSU still had a 19/12/5 Freshman season.. wich never happened before in recent memory..
Ben IS special like it or not.. With Giannis,Blake and Lebron dominating without much of a jumpshot i have no reason to think Ben cant be a true Star in the NBA. No he wont be Lebron.. but people need to stop holding that against him.. It is NOT his fault someone made this comparison. It is true Ben is the "closest thing" we got since Lebron entered the NBA.. but people misinterpreted that as "next Lebron".

I still think Ben will be to Lebron what Kobe is to MJ.. a stylistically very simillar Player that is still great in his own right but cant quite match his idol.

When we look at MJ vs Kobe:

MJ: 30/6/5 on 50%FG
Kobe 25/5/4 on 45%FG

I think to predict somethink like that for Ben vs Lebron is not crazy:
Lebron 27/7/7 on 50%FG
Ben: 21-22/8/6 on 46%FG(Bens a better Rebounder than Lebron)

Yes i know all people who have turned on Ben will come at me again because i dare to say i still believe Ben is a HOF Prospect.. go ahead.. lynch me for it...

People didnt believe me when i was a huge Giannis supporter during his rookie year.. i saw he was "special" and predicted he would be a Star with Superstar Potential...i was called crazy and stuff... I see the same "Special" in Ben..

[ppedro123]

I can see the Lamar Odom comps... but please people.. Lamar is not Bens absolute Ceiling...
Lamar was a high end Role Player with a career stat line of 13.3/8.3/3.7..

Ben is more athletic,has even better Handles and Passing... and most of all he does not have the mental problems all this drama did to Lamar..
People cant be so down on Ben to think he wont even make 1 All Star game... c'mon people..

Ben besides all troubles at LSU still had a 19/12/5 Freshman season.. wich never happened before in recent memory..
Ben IS special like it or not.. With Giannis,Blake and Lebron dominating without much of a jumpshot i have no reason to think Ben cant be a true Star in the NBA. No he wont be Lebron.. but people need to stop holding that against him.. It is NOT his fault someone made this comparison. It is true Ben is the "closest thing" we got since Lebron entered the NBA.. but people misinterpreted that as "next Lebron".

I still think Ben will be to Lebron what Kobe is to MJ.. a stylistically very simillar Player that is still great in his own right but cant quite match his idol.

When we look at MJ vs Kobe:

MJ: 30/6/5 on 50%FG
Kobe 25/5/4 on 45%FG

I think to predict somethink like that for Ben vs Lebron is not crazy:
Lebron 27/7/7 on 50%FG
Ben: 21-22/8/6 on 46%FG(Bens a better Rebounder than Lebron)

Yes i know all people who have turned on Ben will come at me again because i dare to say i still believe Ben is a HOF Prospect.. go ahead.. lynch me for it...

People didnt believe me when i was a huge Giannis supporter during his rookie year.. i saw he was "special" and predicted he would be a Star with Superstar Potential...i was called crazy and stuff... I see the same "Special" in Ben..

What Blake?

If you're talking about Griffin, he has a pretty good mid range game.

[crazy_me_87]

I can see the Lamar Odom comps... but please people.. Lamar is not Bens absolute Ceiling...
Lamar was a high end Role Player with a career stat line of 13.3/8.3/3.7..

Ben is more athletic,has even better Handles and Passing... and most of all he does not have the mental problems all this drama did to Lamar..
People cant be so down on Ben to think he wont even make 1 All Star game... c'mon people..

Ben besides all troubles at LSU still had a 19/12/5 Freshman season.. wich never happened before in recent memory..
Ben IS special like it or not.. With Giannis,Blake and Lebron dominating without much of a jumpshot i have no reason to think Ben cant be a true Star in the NBA. No he wont be Lebron.. but people need to stop holding that against him.. It is NOT his fault someone made this comparison. It is true Ben is the "closest thing" we got since Lebron entered the NBA.. but people misinterpreted that as "next Lebron".

I still think Ben will be to Lebron what Kobe is to MJ.. a stylistically very simillar Player that is still great in his own right but cant quite match his idol.

When we look at MJ vs Kobe:

MJ: 30/6/5 on 50%FG
Kobe 25/5/4 on 45%FG

I think to predict somethink like that for Ben vs Lebron is not crazy:
Lebron 27/7/7 on 50%FG
Ben: 21-22/8/6 on 46%FG(Bens a better Rebounder than Lebron)

Yes i know all people who have turned on Ben will come at me again because i dare to say i still believe Ben is a HOF Prospect.. go ahead.. lynch me for it...

People didnt believe me when i was a huge Giannis supporter during his rookie year.. i saw he was "special" and predicted he would be a Star with Superstar Potential...i was called crazy and stuff... I see the same "Special" in Ben..

What Blake?

If you're talking about Griffin, he has a pretty good mid range game.

Wich he only developed the last few years and he was a 20+ppg scorer before that..

also its not much of a stretch to believe Ben can at the very least develop a decent Mid Range Shot even if he never becomes a capable 3pt Shooter..

[kobe2dlo]

Simmons floor to me is Lamar Odom. Ceiling is pippen if he ever learns to use his athleticism to play d. my main fear with him is work ethic/desire. He clearly didn't care about winning if he went to lsu. And there's articles about him where people on the Aussie national team don't like him because he thinks he's too good for them. Who knows what to believe when it comes to character since none of him know him personally but if my lakers get the first pick I hope Mitch puts more weight into the interview than anything else. We have seen the skills he has to offer. We need to see the killer mentality

His floor is Lamar Odom? think some underrate how good he was in his prime, Simmons is not as offensively advanced in the half court set up. Worst case scenario I see a more cerebral/bigger Evan Turner who can put up triple doubles. Don't see the Pippen comp at all, Simmons doesn't have the measurables or instincts of a lockdown wing defender, if he can't body up NBA 4s he will be a tweener on the other end. Ideally he should play next to a non ball-dominant PG as a secondary playmaker who thrives in transition

i saw odom in his prime. i was a lakers fan. good player, not a great player. i don't see what the issue is with that. also why are u comparing a prime odom to an 18 year old simmons? seems a bit unfair no? it's about trajectory. how does he not have the measurables of a lockdown defender? he has all the physical tools, just needs to put it all together. you rarely get guys that are defensive studs right out of college. they have the body/build and they develop into it as they learn the game. you have to also understand the pippen comp was an absolute best case, not my base case. my base case is odom and there is a world of difference in talent between pippen and odom.

[DTouch]

See nothing wrong with odom comparison....people using selective memory to hate on simmons. We had odom in his prime in la, he only 1-2 seasons where he was consistently good. Prior to pj arrival, odom would have a gm where he flirts with a triple double only to come back next gm and post a 5pt 5 reb gm. Green was an avg role player who didn't shoot very well prior to getting his chance last yr. Im nit even a simmons fan but some of you guys make it sound like odom and green were goid-great from the jump

[HotelVitale]

Worst case scenario I see a more cerebral/bigger Evan Turner who can put up triple doubles. Don't see the Pippen comp at all, Simmons doesn't have the measurables or instincts of a lockdown wing defender, if he can't body up NBA 4s he will be a tweener on the other end.n

I also think about ET, who had a similar shifty-quick toolkit at his NCAA height. I think Simmons has some better basic skills than ET and I don't mean the comp as a knock of Ben, but it seems way more accurate to see a bigger ET as his floor rather than Odom.

What keeps worrying me about Simmons is this--what if he's just unusually precocious, and doesn't actually have much room for growth? What I mean is, his game now is fully built around the fact that he can dribble and pass like a seasoned vet, but what if that simply means he's a few years ahead on that (and what happens when other with that potential catch up)?

Think of it this way (though it's mad simplistic): Giannis started out as a 3/10 guy who had 10/10 potential, and now he's at about 7.5. My fear is that Simmons has 8/10 potential but, because of an unusual precociousness, he's already at 7.5/10. He still tops out at 8/10, since he doesn't have that much more potential to improve on. I know that's simple, but that's what's hits me every time I pull up some highlights from this year.

[Greek]

My uneducated opinion. I can see his talents as a point forward, this is what makes him special, but at the same time has some very glaring weakness, no jump shot, miserable defender. He didn't show enough skills on offence to get a pass on that side of the ball like Harden for example.

A prime Odom is a good comparison for him but I am having really hard time to imagine him to be something much more that that

[Rastas]

Quick question for all the doubters out there , 'do you think Nike who are about to throw 9 figures at Ben ( biggest shoe offer ever for a kid who has not even played an NBA game yet) think he compares to a Oden or slightly better Evan Turner'..........no I think they see a bit more than that.
It's a pity these days that with greatness comes alot of jealousy and bitterness.

[splendidham]

Worst case scenario I see a more cerebral/bigger Evan Turner who can put up triple doubles. Don't see the Pippen comp at all, Simmons doesn't have the measurables or instincts of a lockdown wing defender, if he can't body up NBA 4s he will be a tweener on the other end.n

I also think about ET, who had a similar shifty-quick toolkit at his NCAA height. I think Simmons has some better basic skills than ET and I don't mean the comp as a knock of Ben, but it seems way more accurate to see a bigger ET as his floor rather than Odom.

What keeps worrying me about Simmons is this--what if he's just unusually precocious, and doesn't actually have much room for growth? What I mean is, his game now is fully built around the fact that he can dribble and pass like a seasoned vet, but what if that simply means he's a few years ahead on that (and what happens when other with that potential catch up)?

Think of it this way (though it's mad simplistic): Giannis started out as a 3/10 guy who had 10/10 potential, and now he's at about 7.5. My fear is that Simmons has 8/10 potential but, because of an unusual precociousness, he's already at 7.5/10. He still tops out at 8/10, since he doesn't have that much more potential to improve on. I know that's simple, but that's what's hits me every time I pull up some highlights from this year.

Not saying you're wrong but you come to that conclusion every time you pull up some highlights? I get where you are coming from though. I personally think Ben, as with any 19 year old has a heap of growth left in him. It all depends on how much he wants it.

And Rastas^^
The last I heard was that Nike won't be offering him anywhere near that kind of contract. Should be getting something more in line with what Wiggins got.

[saintEscaton]

Quick question for all the doubters out there , 'do you think Nike who are about to throw 9 figures at Ben ( biggest shoe offer ever for a kid who has not even played an NBA game yet) think he compares to a Oden or slightly better Evan Turner'..........no I think they see a bit more than that.
It's a pity these days that with greatness comes alot of jealousy and bitterness.

Yeah because corporations make great talent evaluators, but thats a coveniant way to dismiss valid criticism as "haterade "

[HotelVitale]

Not saying you're wrong but you come to that conclusion every time you pull up some highlights...I personally think Ben, as with any 19 year old has a heap of growth left in him. It all depends on how much he wants it.

Yeah, even in his best games I see that. Two thing to clarify though: first, ET was really really good in college, athletic and shifty and able to produce all day. Second, I don't at all mean that Simmons is fated to be the second coming of ET. What I mean is that, looking at his size and skills, I can see him being able to do a few things all day but still be relatively limited in impact.
He should be able, at minimum, to take some guys off the bounce to initiate offense, make some great passes here and there, and create some floaters and one-handed shots in the lane for himself. Evan Turner can also do that stuff now and, unless Simmons develops some new things, I could easily see him ending up as just a bigger and slightly faster Turner. That's still a nice 16/7/4 guy, which is nice, but I don't know that he'll be good enough to have go-to moves or be better creators than other first/second options in the NBA.