Giannis' Development

[M-C-G]

I think it's very debateable. It's a classic youthful potential vs proven player. I think the original person brought it because it was so quickly dismissed as ridiculous by the radio folks when in reality it's really debatable, heck for a radio show they could have milked 10 minutes talking about it. Of course, KD is better now but he's what 8 years older, it's whether you prefer the last 6 years of KDs prime vs what Giannis could do for the next 12-15 years. could really argue either way.

That was exactly my point, initially I thought, "of course you make that trade" and then I thought about it and thought, "well, would I really given all the circumstances"...so minimum, it is debatable and as I thought through, I came to the conclusion it is not a deal that I would do.

So to just dismiss it like such an arrogant **** because "MVP" and "Giannis won't ever score 30 points per game" was just so short sighted...I'm not saying that have to look at advanced analytics but stating that "Giannis has never been an all star" (yeah, in his three seasons since playing in a high school gym in Greece) as a reason to do a trade was absurd.

I guess I should just not expect quality radio from those guys. Wicket will throw out the term "blind homerism" but in reality you can make a fairly strong argument that if your goal is to win championships this deal is debatable. If your goal is to have the best player next season, sure you take Durant.

[Chapter29]

So Chuck and Wickett were talking this morning, and someone tweeted that they wouldn't trade Giannis for Durant, which Wickett called idiotic.

Then went on to talk about how many points Durant scores and was fixated that Durant won and MVP and Giannis never would, which is why it ridiculous that anyone wouldn't trade Giannis for Durant.

Bart tried to chime in that it was not ridiculous that someone could think Giannis could have a Durant type career, to which Wickett scoffed again. I found this entire discussion very annoying, because I would not trade Giannis for Durant. And I get that is a big statement, but I would trade 21 year old Giannis for 21 year old Durant, but Durant will be 28 next year and signed to a mega contract.

I'm not sure what Giannis becomes, but I am honestly at a point, where I don't think there is a single player that I would trade him for in the league. He has become the most unique player in the league, with arguably the highest upside of any player in the league right now over the next 5 years. It is conceivable (though unlikely) he could be the best player in the league at some point in his career.

I'm certainly not trading that for a LeBron, Durant, or even Anthony Davis. I'm certain their is homerism in my assessment and value of him, but there it is.

Yep. 100% agreed. Is Giannis as good as some of these guys today. No. Tomorrow. Maybe. For me I will ride that potential bandwagon. I wouldn't trade Giannis for a single player in this league. Homerism? Yep, that's ok with me.

[RRyder823]

Are people really saying they wouldn't trade Giannis for Durant? If we're working under the idea that this a Durant who has just signed a long contract extension, not a 1 n 1 deal like I expect him too, then seriously why the hell wouldn't you?

Like freaking seriously? Durant is at worst the 4th best player in the league, depending on whether you rank Westbrook ahead of him, and we can only HOPE Giannis reaches that level. He allready has been the best player in the world. Giannis hasn't.

Don't get me wrong. I think Giannis stands a chance to get to that level. I really do. But this is homerism at its finest right here. If Durant goes to pretty much any team in the East they almost instantly become contenders to go to the finals and depending on which team it is they could stand more than a real chance of knocking off anyone that comes out of the West. Saying you wouldn't trade Giannis for Durant because you think he has a chance to be the best player in the world makes little sense to me. Durant has allready been at that level and if Curry ever hits a cold spell will stand a very good chance to be there again.

I seriously can't believe anyone said that. And I love Giannis! But damn guys

It's not homerism at all. If you trade him for Durant, you still aren't winning a title without several other moves, given the age of the roster. A slightly big point you are simply overlooking. Giannis is looking like a guaranteed all-star, and very possible top 5 player. You have a major window with him given that he's 21. I mean, if we were likely to win a title by swapping the two, sure, but that isn't the case. We currently have the worst bench in the NBA arguably and one of the youngest teams.

It's actually a pretty easy decision. OKC can't win a title with him and Westbrook, yet the Bucks are going to with him and Middleton and a early 20's Parker? Sure.

Not overlooking it in the least. We're more than several moves away from being a championship team "IF" Giannis were to reach the level Durant is at. There's zero guarantee Giannis ever does. It is not a forgone conclusion.

At least if you trade Giannis for Durant you are now guaranteed of having a player that caliber and now since we'd have Durant in this scenerio it's more than a conceivable that we'd attract the top tier guys in FA as we'd also have cap room which is something OKC never had a chance to do cause they were also paying RW and Ibaka at the same time.

Yes your shortening any potential window at a championship. But that window is actually there and not just the hope and the belief that it will be there in a few years.

Also it's not like OKC doesn't have a chance at a title with just those two. If anyone has a chance of knocking off SA or GS it's them. The difference is while we still wouldn't have RW we'd actually have money to throw around, after dumping Monroe, to put other pieces around a trio of KD, Middleton and Parker. A luxury OKC doesn't.

Seriously though the only reason someone doesn't do this is because they HOPE Giannis turns out to be just as good or as better. Those are pretty big odds to be betting against versus the sure thing

[DingleJerry]

But you'll be paying KD such a massive salary it will be tough to build around him and you only have 5ish years to figure out. Which will still overlap with LBJ and a couple more years of the GSW juggernaut. IMO your chances of winning a championship is higher with Giannis than KD.

[Chapter29]

Yep, and Giannis is who Giannis is a very unique talent that you would be a fool trading away.

Giannis could change this league. I think Giannis has a very good chance at being a special player in this league. Not big odds against it. Not at all. Very good odds for it actually.

[RRyder823]

Curious who you have as #3 after LBJ, Steph before getting to KD and Russ?

I think it's very debateable. It's a classic youthful potential vs proven player. I think the original person brought it because it was so quickly dismissed as ridiculous by the radio folks when in reality it's really debatable, heck for a radio show they could have milked 10 minutes talking about it. Of course, KD is better now but he's what 8 years older, it's whether you prefer the last 6 years of KDs prime vs what Giannis could do for the next 12-15 years. could really argue either way.

Here's my top 5
1: Curry
2: Kawhi
3: Lebron
4: KD/RW
5: RW/KD

That's the point though. It's on the HOPE of what you can get out of Giannis for the next 12 years versus what you pretty much allready know what your getting out of KD for 6 which is what your hoping Giannis becomes

[DingleJerry]

Exactly, very debateable and logical to think either way. Ballsy taking Kawhi over LBJ.

[M-C-G]

Here's my top 5
1: Curry
2: Kawhi
3: Lebron
4: KD/RW
5: RW/KD

That's the point though. It's on the HOPE of what you can get out of Giannis for the next 12 years versus what you pretty much allready know what your getting out of KD for 6 which is what your hoping Giannis becomes

In this scenario OKC has two of the top 5 players in the league and are a collective 0-5 against Cleveland and Golden State. I'm not sure which of those games both played, but this help illustrate the point that Durant plus current Bucks aren't a championship caliber team.

Again the point is that it is debatable. That is all.

[LUKE23]

Not overlooking it in the least. We're more than several moves away from being a championship team "IF" Giannis were to reach the level Durant is at. There's zero guarantee Giannis ever does. It is not a forgone conclusion.

At least if you trade Giannis for Durant you are now guaranteed of having a player that caliber and now since we'd have Durant in this scenerio it's more than a conceivable that we'd attract the top tier guys in FA as we'd also have cap room which is something OKC never had a chance to do cause they were also paying RW and Ibaka at the same time.

Yes your shortening any potential window at a championship. But that window is actually there and not just the hope and the belief that it will be there in a few years.

Also it's not like OKC doesn't have a chance at a title with just those two. If anyone has a chance of knocking off SA or GS it's them. The difference is while we still wouldn't have RW we'd actually have money to throw around, after dumping Monroe, to put other pieces around a trio of KD, Middleton and Parker. A luxury OKC doesn't.

Seriously though the only reason someone doesn't do this is because they HOPE Giannis turns out to be just as good or as better. Those are pretty big odds to be betting against versus the sure thing

Who cares if there is no guarantee? Have you watched Giannis since the ASB? How long does he have to do it before we start talking about him as a potential superstar? The chances of the Bucks putting together a title team quickly enough to make that trade worth it is more slim than the chances of Giannis becoming a top 5 player, to me. Making that swap, the current Bucks would be significantly behind where current OKC is.

[RRyder823]

Are people really saying they wouldn't trade Giannis for Durant? If we're working under the idea that this a Durant who has just signed a long contract extension, not a 1 n 1 deal like I expect him too, then seriously why the hell wouldn't you?

Like freaking seriously? Durant is at worst the 4th best player in the league, depending on whether you rank Westbrook ahead of him, and we can only HOPE Giannis reaches that level. He allready has been the best player in the world. Giannis hasn't.

Don't get me wrong. I think Giannis stands a chance to get to that level. I really do. But this is homerism at its finest right here. If Durant goes to pretty much any team in the East they almost instantly become contenders to go to the finals and depending on which team it is they could stand more than a real chance of knocking off anyone that comes out of the West. Saying you wouldn't trade Giannis for Durant because you think he has a chance to be the best player in the world makes little sense to me. Durant has allready been at that level and if Curry ever hits a cold spell will stand a very good chance to be there again.

I seriously can't believe anyone said that they wouldn't do that trade. And I love Giannis! But damn guys

You have to listen to the exchange to understand how bad it was. I personally wouldn't trade Giannis for Durant. Mostly due to 21 vs 27, and Giannis' story/personality. But I have no issues with anyone preferring Durant. None at all. In fact, I would expect that to be the majority opinion, even considering the age difference, especially nationally. But Chuck and Wickett were literally laughing out loud at this guy, throwing KD's "PPPGGGZZZZ" and "jump shooting ability" in his face as if thats the only thing that matters in basketball. Giannis, at 21, is a triple double threat every single time he steps on the floor. You can make an argument for either guy, and I understand 9/10 people would take KD without thinking, but to laugh down someone who prefers Giannis was embarrassing.

All fair points and can see how someone making a stupid argument can rub people the wrong way.

I can also understand 1/10 preferring Giannis in that trade scenerio. The problem is that with the replies so far it looks like the stance I'm taking is the 1/10 side. Granted it's the Bucks board but that just points to the idea that it's homerism.

Really I'm more suprised that people would rather hope Giannis becomes just as good as Durant instead of taking the sure thing cause ones a 100% chance at a superstar and the other is still an uncertainty

[RRyder823]

So Chuck and Wickett were talking this morning, and someone tweeted that they wouldn't trade Giannis for Durant, which Wickett called idiotic.

Then went on to talk about how many points Durant scores and was fixated that Durant won and MVP and Giannis never would, which is why it ridiculous that anyone wouldn't trade Giannis for Durant.

Bart tried to chime in that it was not ridiculous that someone could think Giannis could have a Durant type career, to which Wickett scoffed again. I found this entire discussion very annoying, because I would not trade Giannis for Durant. And I get that is a big statement, but I would trade 21 year old Giannis for 21 year old Durant, but Durant will be 28 next year and signed to a mega contract.

I'm not sure what Giannis becomes, but I am honestly at a point, where I don't think there is a single player that I would trade him for in the league. He has become the most unique player in the league, with arguably the highest upside of any player in the league right now over the next 5 years. It is conceivable (though unlikely) he could be the best player in the league at some point in his career.

I'm certainly not trading that for a LeBron, Durant, or even Anthony Davis. I'm certain their is homerism in my assessment and value of him, but there it is.

Yep. 100% agreed. Is Giannis as good as some of these guys today. No. Tomorrow. Maybe. For me I will ride that potential bandwagon. I wouldn't trade Giannis for a single player in this league. Homerism? Yep, that's ok with me.

Fair enough

[Badgerlander]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/Mike_Schmitz/status/718137581284753408[/tweet]

kostas nhs

[RRyder823]

Exactly, very debateable and logical to think either way. Ballsy taking Kawhi over LBJ.

Ok maybe I shouldn't have come off as aggressive as I did. But still when I'm the only one arguing that they would take Durant in this scenerio I gotta say it reeks of bias. No problem with that. We're all bias towards the Bucks but I'd guess I'd prefer if more would just own up to it at least a little.

Also I wanted to put Lebron at 5 behind KD and Westbrook but changed my mind

[DingleJerry]

If Giannis does what he's done the last 25 or so games (which is a pretty healthy sample to think it's sustainable) all year next year, he'll be probably 3rd team all NBA at age 22, with some improvement 2nd team is feasible. He's not the raw potential from a year or so back, he is so close to superstar right now it's not even funny.

Remember the first time OKC made the playoffs and hung with Kobe's lakers to win a few games in the playoffs? This would be like trading KD for Kobe after that season. Knowing KD is about to explode and Kobe had a few years left.

[DingleJerry]

Exactly, very debateable and logical to think either way. Ballsy taking Kawhi over LBJ.

Ok maybe I shouldn't have come off as aggressive as I did. But still when I'm the only one arguing that they would take Durant in this scenerio I gotta say it reeks of bias. No problem with that. We're all bias towards the Bucks but I'd guess I'd prefer if more would just own up to it at least a little.

Also I wanted to put Lebron at 5 behind KD and Westbrook but changed my mind

I'm pretty down on what LBJ does these days too but still not sure I could rank him below 2.

We have a pretty small sample size here and you're generally talking to basketball nerds and Bucks fans who have been in 'build for the future' mode so it's not a good sample. I'm sure there's plenty that would immediately take KD. Also, if not for the LBJ shadow and GSW in the way the next few years that might sway me to the KD route. Like I said, it's a very close call.

[RRyder823]

If Giannis does what he's done the last 25 or so games (which is a pretty healthy sample to think it's sustainable) all year next year, he'll be probably 3rd team all NBA at age 22, with some improvement 2nd team is feasible. He's not the raw potential from a year or so back, he is so close to superstar right now it's not even funny.

Remember the first time OKC made the playoffs and hung with Kobe's lakers to win a few games in the playoffs? This would be like trading KD for Kobe after that season. Knowing KD is about to explode and Kobe had a few years left.

I do remember that. The Lakers are my number 2 team and I was sweating bullets that series. I think the analogy is a little off though as Kobe was really starting to get on his last legs that season where as Durant isn't near that point yet. In fact part of the reason Durants length bothered Kobe so much that series was because alot of the lift he had was either going or gone. Would be a good analogy if we were discussing a trade for Lebron though.

[DingleJerry]

True, KD is probably a couple years young to be a perfect comp. Just the first that popped in my head, LBJ would probably be more accurate.

Kobe was only like 31 at the time though, most people instinctively would have done the same thing: Kobe is the best or second best player in the world and has several years left, of course you do it. Then if you think a little longer you don't.

[HKPackFan]

What is Giannis 3pt performance last 5 games? I see an uptick right?

[Prez]

Anyone else at times feel like Giannis is way, way ahead of his time? When I imagine what the ultimate goal of basketball is from an individual player perspective, I can't help but picture what I think is Giannis' max ceiling.

People always talk about players who can guard 1-5...but what about players who just ARE 1-5? Not just defense, but every facet of basketball? A player with the full capabilities of center (rim protection, rebounding, post game, post defense), the full capabilities of a point guard (ball handling, playmaking, game flow/tempo management, ability to defend guards), and everything in between. He's got a ways to go, the jumpshot being the main thing. But if he develops into a good shooter and continues his upward trend athletically to help defend smaller guards...is that not approaching the model of the ideal basketball player? Maybe it's the bud talking but I've just never seen a talent like Giannis and it's blowing my mind more and more each game.

[theFireBlanket]

Trading Giannis for Durant would be moronic, from arguably any perspective.

He's been deemed untouchable since before the ASB, and people seriously entertain the idea of moving him for a soon to be FA, after his post-ASB performance. That's madness.