Thon Maker

[cellar-door]

Evaluation based on mixtapes against garbage or no competition is dumb. Just ask that Russian/Canadian kid who was the last OMG 7 FOOT POINT GUARD.
We'll know after the combine what kind of athlete Maker is and have a better handle on where he goes. If he's a top athlete he'll move up, if he isn't he probably slides down to where Giovony has him on the other boards.

If he's a really raw big man with very good but not elite athleticism that makes sense mid to late first. If his athleticism is more in the average range he becomes a long-term project which makes more sense in the second.

[Envelope]

Evaluation based on mixtapes against garbage or no competition is dumb. Just ask that Russian/Canadian kid who was the last OMG 7 FOOT POINT GUARD.
We'll know after the combine what kind of athlete Maker is and have a better handle on where he goes. If he's a top athlete he'll move up, if he isn't he probably slides down to where Giovony has him on the other boards.

If he's a really raw big man with very good but not elite athleticism that makes sense mid to late first. If his athleticism is more in the average range he becomes a long-term project which makes more sense in the second.

You can see what kind of athlete he is in his mix tapes. I don't know why the F Givony is pretending Maker's an "average" athlete. Givony wants to see Maker totally dominate both ends of the floor, and since he's not seeing that, Givony is going all hipster and calling him an "average" athlete with "small hands". Givony is positioning himself as the Wise Man who knows that Maker isn't as good as his mix tapes. But in doing so, Givony is totally over-compensating and downplaying Thon's athleticism and defensive ability at PF.


I don't know why you would pretend not to have any clue about what kind of athlete Maker is, and pretend you can't trust anything you see in his mix tapes. The only thing you shouldn't trust is how Maker's shooting %s and ball handling moves are likely to work out in actual games. And even with that, why would anybody declare that Maker doesn't have sweet potential in these areas, as a 19 year old relatively new to the game?

[cedric76]

could you explain why Skal Labissiere is ranked so higher than Thon maker?

i cant see why such a big gap

[Envelope]

could you explain why Skal Labissiere is ranked so higher than Thon maker?

i cant see why such a big gap

Because Skal has no fight and is 5 lbs lighter than Maker, even though Skal is a year older.

[cedric76]

could you explain why Skal Labissiere is ranked so higher than Thon maker?

i cant see why such a big gap

Because Skal has no fight and is 5 lbs lighter than Maker, even though Skal is a year older.

exactly

[cellar-door]

could you explain why Skal Labissiere is ranked so higher than Thon maker?

i cant see why such a big gap

Probably comes out of the Nike hoops summit they were both at. Skal was a little better athlete, had a better frame had a more refined offensive game and was better in the post. He was basically a little upgrade in a bunch of categories.
I'm not a big Skal fan, but his ceiling is higher, and with two guys who are all about ceiling he'll get ranked higher. He's also probably closer to NBA ready, though probably in the way of needing one or two D-League years instead of 2-3 like most scouts seem to think Maker needs.

[OrlChamps2030]

Petr Cornelie Vs Thon Maker

For those who know a decent amount about both.. who would you take?

[Envelope]

could you explain why Skal Labissiere is ranked so higher than Thon maker?

i cant see why such a big gap

Probably comes out of the Nike hoops summit they were both at. Skal was a little better athlete, had a better frame had a more refined offensive game and was better in the post. He was basically a little upgrade in a bunch of categories.
I'm not a big Skal fan, but his ceiling is higher, and with two guys who are all about ceiling he'll get ranked higher. He's also probably closer to NBA ready, though probably in the way of needing one or two D-League years instead of 2-3 like most scouts seem to think Maker needs.

In the time since, Maker has gained at least 8 lbs, and being a year younger he'll gain more. Skal has hardly gained weight, and played incredibly soft at Kentucky. Maker is to much of a warrior to back down and disappear like Skal did.

The people downplaying Thon are clinging to that year old matchup between Skal and Thon as if it's still the most relevant thing in the world. They simply don't want to re-think their mock draft hierarchies this late in the game.

And I think there's a certain jealousy among people like Jon Givony and the others. Thon was the most hyped prospect since LeBron, really, and they enjoy taking him down a peg and saying he's nothing special.

For instance, 5'3" Givony declaring that Maker has "small hands" and is an "average athlete". Givony has a lot of emotional investment in Bender being the third best prospect, and he has a lot of emotional investment in Skal, who Givony appointed as the top prospect in this draft for a long time.

Thon Maker is just a big inconvenience for people who dismissed him as ineligible for this draft long ago.

[Dr Positivity]

I prefer Thon to Skal also. Numbers support Thon over Skal, even though Thon has no numbers. Because I'd rather take a player with no statistical information than bad stats like Skal. Zhou Qi > Skal, Thon > Skal. The most usable numbers between the 3 players are the ones that say Skal blows and I don't think he's a more interesting talent than either Zhou or Thon either

[Worm Guts]

could you explain why Skal Labissiere is ranked so higher than Thon maker?

i cant see why such a big gap

Probably comes out of the Nike hoops summit they were both at. Skal was a little better athlete, had a better frame had a more refined offensive game and was better in the post. He was basically a little upgrade in a bunch of categories.
I'm not a big Skal fan, but his ceiling is higher, and with two guys who are all about ceiling he'll get ranked higher. He's also probably closer to NBA ready, though probably in the way of needing one or two D-League years instead of 2-3 like most scouts seem to think Maker needs.

In the time since, Maker has gained at least 8 lbs, and being a year younger he'll gain more. Skal has hardly gained weight, and played incredibly soft at Kentucky. Maker is to much of a warrior to back down and disappear like Skal did.

The people downplaying Thon are clinging to that year old matchup between Skal and Thon as if it's still the most relevant thing in the world. They simply don't want to re-think their mock draft hierarchies this late in the game.

And I think there's a certain jealousy among people like Jon Givony and the others. Thon was the most hyped prospect since LeBron, really, and they enjoy taking him down a peg and saying he's nothing special.

For instance, 5'3" Givony declaring that Maker has "small hands" and is an "average athlete". Givony has a lot of emotional investment in Bender being the third best prospect, and he has a lot of emotional investment in Skal, who Givony appointed as the top prospect in this draft for a long time.

Thon Maker is just a big inconvenience for people who dismissed him as ineligible for this draft long ago.

I'm not sure what Givony being short has to with his scouting ability. If he's going to dislike prospects for being taller than him, he's going to hate all of them.

[Envelope]

Probably comes out of the Nike hoops summit they were both at. Skal was a little better athlete, had a better frame had a more refined offensive game and was better in the post. He was basically a little upgrade in a bunch of categories.
I'm not a big Skal fan, but his ceiling is higher, and with two guys who are all about ceiling he'll get ranked higher. He's also probably closer to NBA ready, though probably in the way of needing one or two D-League years instead of 2-3 like most scouts seem to think Maker needs.

In the time since, Maker has gained at least 8 lbs, and being a year younger he'll gain more. Skal has hardly gained weight, and played incredibly soft at Kentucky. Maker is to much of a warrior to back down and disappear like Skal did.

The people downplaying Thon are clinging to that year old matchup between Skal and Thon as if it's still the most relevant thing in the world. They simply don't want to re-think their mock draft hierarchies this late in the game.

And I think there's a certain jealousy among people like Jon Givony and the others. Thon was the most hyped prospect since LeBron, really, and they enjoy taking him down a peg and saying he's nothing special.

For instance, 5'3" Givony declaring that Maker has "small hands" and is an "average athlete". Givony has a lot of emotional investment in Bender being the third best prospect, and he has a lot of emotional investment in Skal, who Givony appointed as the top prospect in this draft for a long time.

Thon Maker is just a big inconvenience for people who dismissed him as ineligible for this draft long ago.

I'm not sure what Givony being short has to with his scouting ability. If he's going to dislike prospects for being taller than him, he's going to hate all of them.

I agree that was uncalled for. At the same time, I'm pretty sure I'm on to something. When Thon showed up at Hoop Summit last year he was accompanied by more hype than anyone in recent memory. Everybody was looking to answer a Yes/No question: Is he or isn't he the next KG type player. When he didn't dominate offensively, Givony wrote him off as an elite prospect. Disregarding that he was only 18, that he played well defensively and showed offensive flashes, and most importantly, that Thon had only been playing for 4-5 years.

It's like until people see Thon dominate offensively, they're not going to give him credit defensively. They don't even seem to give him credit for being able to play PF, something he may very well be able to do in the NBA right now.

WCS and even Anthony Davis never had that kind of hype that Thon had, so people were able to appreciate them for what they did well, not just see them for what they can't do (consistently).

But the talk about Thon Maker being an average athlete is just nutty. Has nothing to do with reality.

[suntzuballin]

Maker is a lottery pick in this years weak draft, NBA has no real reason to deny him since he qualifies the draft requirements, at least 19 and 1 year past high school, Maker is 19 and graduated high school last June playing at post grad at a Prep this last year.

WHAAAATTTT ??? He may go top 20 but I don't see him as a lottery pick. TOR is the only team I see that could do that...a draft-n-stash type guy.

I'm all for that.

[LuessiT]

Petr Cornelie Vs Thon Maker

For those who know a decent amount about both.. who would you take?

Definately Cornelie. Cornelie is the much better perimeter defender, which allows him to play PF in the NBA from the get go. He could have an instant impact as a PF though he's probably too thin to play center right now. He's shooting about 45% from 3's, which will imediately translate. While his wingspan is only about 7'1, he has about 9'3 standing reach, which allows him to play center if he can bulks up enough. Cornelie is more athletic than Maker.

I think the comparison is pretty unfair because Cornelie is serverely underrated in current mocks. I'm pretty sure he'll at least rise to the early 20s. Maybe he can even grasp the lottery with a good showing at the combine.

[Ambrose]

In the time since, Maker has gained at least 8 lbs, and being a year younger he'll gain more. Skal has hardly gained weight, and played incredibly soft at Kentucky. Maker is to much of a warrior to back down and disappear like Skal did.

The people downplaying Thon are clinging to that year old matchup between Skal and Thon as if it's still the most relevant thing in the world. They simply don't want to re-think their mock draft hierarchies this late in the game.

And I think there's a certain jealousy among people like Jon Givony and the others. Thon was the most hyped prospect since LeBron, really, and they enjoy taking him down a peg and saying he's nothing special.

For instance, 5'3" Givony declaring that Maker has "small hands" and is an "average athlete". Givony has a lot of emotional investment in Bender being the third best prospect, and he has a lot of emotional investment in Skal, who Givony appointed as the top prospect in this draft for a long time.

Thon Maker is just a big inconvenience for people who dismissed him as ineligible for this draft long ago.

I'm not sure what Givony being short has to with his scouting ability. If he's going to dislike prospects for being taller than him, he's going to hate all of them.

I agree that was uncalled for. At the same time, I'm pretty sure I'm on to something. When Thon showed up at Hoop Summit last year he was accompanied by more hype than anyone in recent memory. Everybody was looking to answer a Yes/No question: Is he or isn't he the next KG type player. When he didn't dominate offensively, Givony wrote him off as an elite prospect. Disregarding that he was only 18, that he played well defensively and showed offensive flashes, and most importantly, that Thon had only been playing for 4-5 years.

It's like until people see Thon dominate offensively, they're not going to give him credit defensively. They don't even seem to give him credit for being able to play PF, something he may very well be able to do in the NBA right now.

WCS and even Anthony Davis never had that kind of hype that Thon had, so people were able to appreciate them for what they did well, not just see them for what they can't do (consistently).

But the talk about Thon Maker being an average athlete is just nutty. Has nothing to do with reality.

So basically you're saying he was hyped as this incredible prospect (true), massively disappointed in the one big setting he's been in (true), and now people have cooled off on him (true). So why the hell are you surprised by this? And don't come back at me with "he didn't massively disappoint" because that's simply not true.

[Envelope]

I'm not sure what Givony being short has to with his scouting ability. If he's going to dislike prospects for being taller than him, he's going to hate all of them.

I agree that was uncalled for. At the same time, I'm pretty sure I'm on to something. When Thon showed up at Hoop Summit last year he was accompanied by more hype than anyone in recent memory. Everybody was looking to answer a Yes/No question: Is he or isn't he the next KG type player. When he didn't dominate offensively, Givony wrote him off as an elite prospect. Disregarding that he was only 18, that he played well defensively and showed offensive flashes, and most importantly, that Thon had only been playing for 4-5 years.

It's like until people see Thon dominate offensively, they're not going to give him credit defensively. They don't even seem to give him credit for being able to play PF, something he may very well be able to do in the NBA right now.

WCS and even Anthony Davis never had that kind of hype that Thon had, so people were able to appreciate them for what they did well, not just see them for what they can't do (consistently).

But the talk about Thon Maker being an average athlete is just nutty. Has nothing to do with reality.

So basically you're saying he was hyped as this incredible prospect (true), massively disappointed in the one big setting he's been in (true), and now people have cooled off on him (true). So why the hell are you surprised by this? And don't come back at me with "he didn't massively disappoint" because that's simply not true.

Massively disappointed by THE BEST PROSPECT SINCE LEBRON JAMES standards.

He shot 0-5 in the Hoops Summit game. As an 18 year old. But his defense was awesome, he had a team high 10 rebounds, and didn't look out of place playing with All of the top prospects, many of whom were older, all of whom had been playing basketball longer than Maker.

Anybody can be a disappointment at anything if you set a high enough standard.

People don't care about defense, unless the guy plays for Kentucky.

[Ambrose]

I agree that was uncalled for. At the same time, I'm pretty sure I'm on to something. When Thon showed up at Hoop Summit last year he was accompanied by more hype than anyone in recent memory. Everybody was looking to answer a Yes/No question: Is he or isn't he the next KG type player. When he didn't dominate offensively, Givony wrote him off as an elite prospect. Disregarding that he was only 18, that he played well defensively and showed offensive flashes, and most importantly, that Thon had only been playing for 4-5 years.

It's like until people see Thon dominate offensively, they're not going to give him credit defensively. They don't even seem to give him credit for being able to play PF, something he may very well be able to do in the NBA right now.

WCS and even Anthony Davis never had that kind of hype that Thon had, so people were able to appreciate them for what they did well, not just see them for what they can't do (consistently).

But the talk about Thon Maker being an average athlete is just nutty. Has nothing to do with reality.

So basically you're saying he was hyped as this incredible prospect (true), massively disappointed in the one big setting he's been in (true), and now people have cooled off on him (true). So why the hell are you surprised by this? And don't come back at me with "he didn't massively disappoint" because that's simply not true.

Massively disappointed by THE BEST PROSPECT SINCE LEBRON JAMES standards.

He shot 0-5 in the Hoops Summit game. As an 18 year old. But his defense was awesome, he had a team high 10 rebounds, and didn't look out of place playing with All of the top prospects, many of whom were older, all of whom had been playing basketball longer than Maker.

Anybody can be a disappointment at anything if you set a high enough standard.

People don't care about defense, unless the guy plays for Kentucky.

He scored 2 points in a glorified all star game/only big stage of his life and contrary to what you just said clearly wasn't one of the top players there despite being hyped as such. He has potential but he's just nowhere near this special player he's been made out to be.

[Envelope]

So basically you're saying he was hyped as this incredible prospect (true), massively disappointed in the one big setting he's been in (true), and now people have cooled off on him (true). So why the hell are you surprised by this? And don't come back at me with "he didn't massively disappoint" because that's simply not true.

Massively disappointed by THE BEST PROSPECT SINCE LEBRON JAMES standards.

He shot 0-5 in the Hoops Summit game. As an 18 year old. But his defense was awesome, he had a team high 10 rebounds, and didn't look out of place playing with All of the top prospects, many of whom were older, all of whom had been playing basketball longer than Maker.

Anybody can be a disappointment at anything if you set a high enough standard.

People don't care about defense, unless the guy plays for Kentucky.

He scored 2 points in a glorified all star game/only big stage of his life and contrary to what you just said clearly wasn't one of the top players there despite being hyped as such. He has potential but he's just nowhere near this special player he's been made out to be.

He shot 0-5 in a glorified all star game. Meanwhile, he played elite defense and nobody Fing noticed. Now he's even taller, stronger, and older. The dude was a defensive star in his one big stage, and out-rebounded Simmons in half the minutes.

But you go right ahead and focus on the 0-5 shooting. Get a microscope while you're at it.

[Ambrose]

Massively disappointed by THE BEST PROSPECT SINCE LEBRON JAMES standards.

He shot 0-5 in the Hoops Summit game. As an 18 year old. But his defense was awesome, he had a team high 10 rebounds, and didn't look out of place playing with All of the top prospects, many of whom were older, all of whom had been playing basketball longer than Maker.

Anybody can be a disappointment at anything if you set a high enough standard.

People don't care about defense, unless the guy plays for Kentucky.

He scored 2 points in a glorified all star game/only big stage of his life and contrary to what you just said clearly wasn't one of the top players there despite being hyped as such. He has potential but he's just nowhere near this special player he's been made out to be.

He shot 0-5 in a glorified all star game. Meanwhile, he played elite defense and nobody Fing noticed. Now he's even taller, stronger, and older. The dude was a defensive star in his one big stage, and out-rebounded Simmons in half the minutes.

But you go right ahead and focus on the 0-5 shooting. Get a microscope while you're at it.

Sorry the fact that he's not that good offends you. You should probably takes things less seriously. Especially for a guy I'd be shocked to see become anything more than a solid rotational player.

[Envelope]

He scored 2 points in a glorified all star game/only big stage of his life and contrary to what you just said clearly wasn't one of the top players there despite being hyped as such. He has potential but he's just nowhere near this special player he's been made out to be.

He shot 0-5 in a glorified all star game. Meanwhile, he played elite defense and nobody Fing noticed. Now he's even taller, stronger, and older. The dude was a defensive star in his one big stage, and out-rebounded Simmons in half the minutes.

But you go right ahead and focus on the 0-5 shooting. Get a microscope while you're at it.

Sorry the fact that he's not that good offends you. You should probably takes things less seriously. Especially for a guy I'd be shocked to see become anything more than a solid rotational player.

Draymond Green level role player. But probably better.

And nobody made a big deal about Draymond going 0-5 in an exhibition game when he was 18, before his four years of college.

[Ambrose]

He shot 0-5 in a glorified all star game. Meanwhile, he played elite defense and nobody Fing noticed. Now he's even taller, stronger, and older. The dude was a defensive star in his one big stage, and out-rebounded Simmons in half the minutes.

But you go right ahead and focus on the 0-5 shooting. Get a microscope while you're at it.

Sorry the fact that he's not that good offends you. You should probably takes things less seriously. Especially for a guy I'd be shocked to see become anything more than a solid rotational player.

Draymond Green level role player. But probably better.

And nobody made a big deal about Draymond going 0-5 in an exhibition game when he was 18, before his four years of college.

No, like Serge Ibaka role player at best. Maybe it's just the logical side of me thinking but when you have every gift you could possibly want and have never dominated anything it tends to raise a big red flag for me. Oh, and the fact that he looked terrible in his one big outing, skipped his chance to redeem himself due to "fatigue" from a high school basketball schedule and bailed on college for basically an extra year of high school. But no you're right that totally sounds like a guy who's going to tear up the league. There is a better chance he's out of the league in two years then there is of him becoming Draymond Green.