Discussing Other Teams' Moves Part 5

[gtn130]

Thibs meets with the Timberwolves. Wants full control.

Wish we'd give Thibs full control.

I'd be a little leery about giving a guy like Thibs full control. The way he runs his starters into the ground to eek out relatively meaningless victories in the regular season suggests that he has a short-term mindset. It's fine for coaches to think in the short term, but not GM's.

Thibs as a coach/GM would probably be even more willing to trade away 1st round picks than EG. Coaches in general hate grooming young players, and Thibs strikes me as a guy who really hates dealing with the uncertainty of an inexperienced youngster.

No, it suggests he was just misinformed. There is zero chance he was intentionally harming his players' long term careers. Here's what he said about minutes:

"If you look at total minutes, it wasn’t even close. Overall, our minutes are way below what normal starters do. And if you guys study the history of the league, which I’m sure you do, the great Bulls teams you’d see that (Michael) Jordan and (Scottie) Pippen well into their 30s were playing huge minutes. So I’m trying to be like Phil (Jackson)....And (Gregg) Popovich was the same way with (Tim) Duncan early on in his career. Pop and Phil are two of the best, maybe the greatest of all-time, both of them.

...

"I think how you pace your team is important. It’s easy to look at a box score and say, ‘Oh, that’s too much.’ But what you don’t see is the days off in practice. You don’t see what you have a guy do in practice. You may not have contact in practice. You may do shooting. You may do film. There’s a lot of things that go into it. I think I have a pretty good understanding after 24 years how to pace a team."

Basically he thinks since Phil Jackson ran his players into the ground it must not be so bad. He's wrong on this subject, but I don't think it says all that much about him as GM. He knows basketball and that matters a lot.

I think Thibs would be a way better GM than EG or Doc Rivers and would probably be in the same class as SVG.

[gtn130]

I'm leery of giving anyone full control. Coaching and GMing should involve different mindsets. The coach should be focused more on the day-to-day management of the team -- trying to maximize the number of wins within the constraints of the roster, injuries, illness, rest, etc. The GM should be taking a longer term view -- assembling the best roster possible season by season, but thinking and planning years into the future.

That's not to say Grunfeld should remain in position, of course.

I think it can work sometimes. Pop is basically co-GM, and SVG is doing ok. Bill Belichick and Pete Carroll are both coach and GM for what that's worth

[TheSecretWeapon]

I'm leery of giving anyone full control. Coaching and GMing should involve different mindsets. The coach should be focused more on the day-to-day management of the team -- trying to maximize the number of wins within the constraints of the roster, injuries, illness, rest, etc. The GM should be taking a longer term view -- assembling the best roster possible season by season, but thinking and planning years into the future.

That's not to say Grunfeld should remain in position, of course.

I think it can work sometimes. Pop is basically co-GM, and SVG is doing ok. Bill Belichick and Pete Carroll are both coach and GM for what that's worth

Yep -- that's why I used the word "leery". I wouldn't rule it out in every situation, but I'd have to be convinced. I haven't seen anything from Thibodeau to make me think he should have that kind of power in an organization.

[FAH1223]

Thibs is the Head Coach and President of Basketball Operations for Minnesota.

He'll have a better record than Ernie.

[verbal8]

Thibs is the Head Coach and President of Basketball Operations for Minnesota.

He'll have a better record than Ernie.

From an article I saw it looks like there will the a GM in Minn. Thibs would be in charge of the GM in his President role.

[FAH1223]

Thibs is the Head Coach and President of Basketball Operations for Minnesota.

He'll have a better record than Ernie.

From an article I saw it looks like there will the a GM in Minn. Thibs would be in charge of the GM in his President role.

Same set up the Spurs have.

R.C. Buford is the GM. Pop is the HC/President and has final say. But he lets R.C. do whatever he wants.

[closg00]

With Byron Scott and EFG gone, is the Princeton offense dead in the NBA?

[payitforward]

Thibs is in full control. Here in Washington, Ernie is in full out-of-control.

[FAH1223]

Lakers hire Luke Walton.

Probably the first smart move Mitch and Jim Buss have made in years.

[LyricalRico]

Vogel out in Indy, and McHale withdraws from Kings search. Coincidence? Or is he reuniting with Larry Legend?

[FAH1223]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/adammcginnis/status/729717814836211713[/tweet]

Kings get Joerger for 4 years and $16M.

[LyricalRico]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/adammcginnis/status/729717814836211713[/tweet]

Kings get Joerger for 4 years and $16M.

Wow, he takes a terrible job AND does it at a discount? Who is his agent?

[Rafael122]

Honestly, as much success Vogel and Joerger have had, they are cut from the same cloth as Wittman when it comes to all defense, lack of innovative offense. And I know Brooks gets flack for his lack of offensive schemes, but he seems to be the one that has the best combination of both.

[thricethefun]

Who cares what we paid for our coach? Not like it counts against salary cap

[LyricalRico]

Who cares what we paid for our coach? Not like it counts against salary cap

I can see that point of view. Also, the going rate for rookie head coaches has been around $5M per year (Kerr/Fisher a couple years ago, and now Walton) and experienced coaches have been more in the $7M range. True, some of them have also taken on president/GM roles (like SVG or Thibs) but that has pretty much set the market for guys that have had some success.

And for people complaining because of the Joerger deal, that's more of him settling for less than market value than us overpaying for Brooks IMO. There's no way he should be making less than the rookie HC in his own division.

[LyricalRico]

Grizzlies general manager Chris Wallace and former head coach Lionel Hollins were seen dining Monday night at a local restaurant, leading to speculation that Hollins is a candidate to replace the recently fired Dave Joerger.

Wallace did not immediately return phone calls seeking comment.

The irony is that Joerger served as an assistant under Hollins before Joerger took over the Griz bench when Hollins' contract was not renewed after the 2012-13 season.

Hollins and Wallace worked together for nearly five seasons and would be a popular hire as he has maintained a strong relationship with the core four players (Mike Conley, Tony Allen, Zach Randolph and Marc Gasol). Hollins also remains the Grizzlies' all-time winningest coach with a 214-201 regular-season record. He was 18-17 in the postseason, which included a 2013 appearance in the Western Conference finals.

http://www.commercialappeal.com/sports/grizzlies/griz-considering-reunion-with-coach-lionel-hollins-3270281f-e281-0615-e053-0100007fd7cf-378738841.html

So, if this ends up being true...they let Hollins go after he becomes their winningest HC and leads them to the WCF...so that they can promote an assistant...only to fire him a couple years later after he has leads one of the most injured teams in history to the playoffs...and then bring back the guy he replaced?

[ozthegap]

Grizzlies general manager Chris Wallace and former head coach Lionel Hollins were seen dining Monday night at a local restaurant, leading to speculation that Hollins is a candidate to replace the recently fired Dave Joerger.

Wallace did not immediately return phone calls seeking comment.

The irony is that Joerger served as an assistant under Hollins before Joerger took over the Griz bench when Hollins' contract was not renewed after the 2012-13 season.

Hollins and Wallace worked together for nearly five seasons and would be a popular hire as he has maintained a strong relationship with the core four players (Mike Conley, Tony Allen, Zach Randolph and Marc Gasol). Hollins also remains the Grizzlies' all-time winningest coach with a 214-201 regular-season record. He was 18-17 in the postseason, which included a 2013 appearance in the Western Conference finals.

http://www.commercialappeal.com/sports/grizzlies/griz-considering-reunion-with-coach-lionel-hollins-3270281f-e281-0615-e053-0100007fd7cf-378738841.html

So, if this ends up being true...they let Hollins go after he becomes their winningest HC and leads them to the WCF...so that they can promote an assistant...only to fire him a couple years later after he has leads one of the most injured teams in history to the playoffs...and then bring back the guy he replaced?

Lakers did something similar and it got them three more championships. Phil, Rudy T, Phil

[LyricalRico]

Lakers did something similar and it got them three more championships. Phil, Rudy T, Phil

I thought Rudy T had cancer? And besides, the whole Shaq/Kobe/Phil situation was a pretty unique one (especially considering Phil's relationship with the then-owner's daughter). Throw the 5 rings into the mix and I'd have a hard time comparing anything to that, certainly not the Memphis Grizzlies.

[ozthegap]

Lakers did something similar and it got them three more championships. Phil, Rudy T, Phil

I thought Rudy T had cancer? And besides, the whole Shaq/Kobe/Phil situation was a pretty unique one (especially considering Phil's relationship with the then-owner's daughter). Throw the 5 rings into the mix and I'd have a hard time comparing anything to that, certainly not the Memphis Grizzlies.

I don't remember him having cancer. I remember the fans couldn't stand him and were up in arms trying to get him fired.

[payitforward]

Scott Skiles is out. Who will Orlando choose as their next coach?