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[GMATCallahan]

I thought Gino was going to go for a floater or at least try and draw the foul instead he whips the ball out to the three which they didn't need. Patty Mills taking a contested 3 to me seems like he wasn't aware of the time left at that point in the sequence.

... an intriguing possibility. If so, he should have known better, because there was plenty of time when the clock started, and the first few aspects unfolded very quickly.

[lilfishi22]

I thought Gino was going to go for a floater or at least try and draw the foul instead he whips the ball out to the three which they didn't need. Patty Mills taking a contested 3 to me seems like he wasn't aware of the time left at that point in the sequence.

... an intriguing possibility. If so, he should have known better, because there was plenty of time when the clock started, and the first few aspects unfolded very quickly.

Well, that or he panicked. He had a good 5 seconds left on the shot clock when he received the pass.

[GMATCallahan]

Westbrook obviously adds more than he takes away, and without two historically good teams this year, I think they'd be right in the mix, but as Bill Simmons pointed out last night, he is the 4th worst 3 pt shooter of all time who has taken more than 1,500 (less than 30%). Of course Kobe isn't much better in that respect, and he was the best player on some championship teams.

Westbrook is so good with assists and rebounds that he makes up for it though imo. Last night they shot terribly. As for Harden, you are right to some extent but also they played better the two years after him in the regular season, only to have terrible injuries in the playoffs (Westbrook in year one and Ibaka in year two, and they still took the champion Spurs to 7 games as the lower seed without him for much of the series).

I think their bigger problem is having subpar role players around those two.

Westbrook is a force of nature and a terrific player, and a team can be a perennial contender with him. But in close situations in the playoffs, the little things come into greater focus. Westbrook plays a borderline-reckless/All-Star Game style of basketball that results in poor shot selection, poor decisions, and poor execution a little too often. While Kobe Bryant has long been an overrated three-point shooter, he has actually looked good in that area compared to Westbrook. Westbrook's turnover rate is also very high, and although he improved somewhat this season, his career assists-to-turnover ratio is quite poor for a point guard. Two years ago, he fared terribly in overtime sessions in the playoffs as the Thunder went 1-4 in those situations. Playing all but the final six seconds of those five overtime periods, Westbrook combined to score 3 points in 24:54 of playing time, shooting 1-21 (.048) from the field, 0-7 (.000) on threes, and 3-5 (.600) from the free throw line. Sure, he grabbed 10 rebounds in those five overtime sessions—the energy, effort, and athleticism were there. But the shot selection and ability to play within a flow in half-court situations, which are what close playoff games and overtimes usually come down to, were much more questionable.

Regular season basketball is one thing, but Harden gave Oklahoma City incredible versatility and made them less dependent on Westbrook's shot-out-of-a-cannon style. In the playoffs, being too predictable offensively can be deadly.

Also, Harden was just coming into his own in 2012. Had the Thunder kept him, the team's recent regular season records could have proved even better. Certainly, the team could have been better this year with Harden, as it blew fourteen fourth quarter leads in the regular season.

There has been some variance to the Thunder's role players over the years, but they have also possessed some solid pieces. Even now, one could do much worse than Serge Ibaka and the Steven Adams/Enes Kanter combination up front.

Oklahoma City is a very good club, but I do not see the Thunder as being a top-of-the-league type of team in most any year. With the staggering amount of parity and mediocrity in the NBA right now (beyond the top couple of clubs), Oklahoma City also could have posted a swollen or inflated record, like Golden State or San Antonio, if the Thunder was good enough. Actually, Oklahoma City’s record may be a little inflated by all this parity and mediocrity (outside of the very top teams), too.

Again, Westbrook is an elite guard and a historic one in certain respects. But he can be something of a bull in a china shop, and winning a championship with a bull in a china shop at point guard may be an oxymoron—if you are too dependent on him. Harden’s presence would have allowed Oklahoma City to be more flexible in its half-court sets and foster needed diversification.

Frankly, Game Three on Friday night constituted a perfect example. With the score tied at 88 and less than five minutes remaining in the fourth quarter, Westbrook found himself guarded by LaMarcus Aldridge on a switch off the pick-and-roll, high on the left wing. There were still at least six seconds remaining on the shot clock, and Aldridge was all over Westbrook, not giving him any air space out at the three-point line. Nonetheless, Westbrook—a .296 three-point shooter on the regular season and a .302 three-point shooter for his regular season career—attempted a step-back three over Aldridge.

To be sure, Westbrook had buried a step-back three a couple of minutes earlier, but that one had come against a mid-sized defender, Danny Green, and Westbrook had enjoyed greater space. And Westbrook had nailed a step-back three in the third quarter off a switch against the 6’10” Tim Duncan, but Duncan is forty years old and Westbrook was able to create sufficient air space. This attempt, conversely, came against a highly mobile, 6’11” thirty-year old, with Aldridge all the way up on Westbrook, giving him no space late in the fourth quarter of a tie-game. Naturally, Westbrook missed, as one would have predicted based on the type of shot.

The playoffs, and the goal of winning a championship, magnifies the little things—decision-making, shot selection, the ability to make effective reads of matchups, situations, and floor dynamics, and the importance of every possession. Sheer talent is no longer enough. And the little things are where Westbrook struggles, along with an ability or willingness to play the percentages. In baseball, Greg Maddux once said that he viewed pitching as analogous to gambling at a casino: overall, the odds win out—not in every instance, but on average. Basketball is like that, too: there are exceptions, but on average, bad shots do not go in and reckless risks do not pan out. The exceptions end up faltering to the rule, which is why discipline results in championships. And Westbrook, for all his breathtaking athletic talent and ability to pile up numbers and even carry a club in the regular season, remains an undisciplined and imprecise point guard.

A little over a minute later, Westbrook forced a pass to the roll man (Serge Ibaka) off the pick-and-roll by failing to create a passing lane and not looking to rotate the ball to the weak side or re-do the play, letting Ibaka come back and re-set the screen. About ninety seconds later, Westbrook failed to protect the ball off the dribble and committed his third turnover of the quarter.
And these sorts of bad decisions and failures to execute in the half-court were not aberrant; they happen routinely with Russell Westbrook.

Of course, the fourth quarter also saw what renders him an elite guard. On one play, he galloped toward the hoop in transition and scored over a defender; on another, he drew a shooting foul in a similar situation and nailed his free throws. Indeed, Russell Westbrook, with his speed, good size, long strides, and ability to elevate, may constitute the most unstoppable scoring point guard in fast break situations that the game has ever seen.

On another play late in the fourth quarter, he slammed back a teammate’s miss with a two-handed jam. (Point guards generally are supposed to get back on defense to protect against uncontested fast breaks, not to go to the offensive glass, but Westbrook’s extraordinary athleticism makes some chances in that regard worthwhile.)

Nonetheless, erratic decision-making and execution from a star point guard can hamstring a club’s championship hopes, and these patterns have long existed and remain very much evident with Russell Westbrook. He is a “superstar,” yet is he a great player? The answer rests with one’s definition, but he lacks the basketball intelligence of a great point guard.

Of course, if Westbrook plays well in Game Four this afternoon and leads Oklahoma City to a victory with a triple-double, the media will rant and rave about the triple-double …

[GMATCallahan]

Well, that or he panicked. He had a good 5 seconds left on the shot clock when he received the pass.

I wonder if the mantra about taking threes, and especially corner threes, sometimes causes current players to fail to adjust to the particular situation. Players settle for threes like never before, and although three-point shooting off the dribble is probably better than ever, sometimes guys forget to play "basketball." The equivalent would be swinging for the fences in baseball every time, regardless of the situation.

[lilfishi22]

It's hard to say. The corner three is also the easiest one to shoot because of the distance. Aside from that, with 5 seconds left and the defense getting back, Mills may have analysed it and thought that would be the best shot they could get without reseting.

[GMATCallahan]

It's hard to say. The corner three is also the easiest one to shoot because of the distance. Aside from that, with 5 seconds left and the defense getting back, Mills may have analysed it and thought that would be the best shot they could get without reseting.

In that case, he made a bad read because a center was flying at him and his team only trailed by one. You're down by one—go for three! Years ago, people would have been up in arms about that decision.

Now, if Mills was not an effective shooter off the dribble, that would be one thing. However, he is a ball-handling guard who often shoots pull-up jumpers, and he would have only needed to take one dribble for an open, two-point baseline jumper.

[lilfishi22]

Yeah for sure he should've shook off Adams with a small fake and taken a better shot. In which case, it likely thought he needed to get that shot off in time before the clock ran out.

Either way, now that they are 2-2, this is series is getting more interesting than I had anticipated.

[jcsunsfan]

Yeah for sure he should've shook off Adams with a small fake and taken a better shot. In which case, it likely thought he needed to get that shot off in time before the clock ran out.

Either way, now that they are 2-2, this is series is getting more interesting than I had anticipated.

So glad to see a competitive series. Honestly, I would love to see OKC win this series. It would be better for the Suns if Durant stays in OKC and doesn't fly this summer to a place like San Antonio. More parity in the league is more opportunity for the Suns to build into something.

Anyone else notice that both Cleveland and OKC are better when Kyrie and Westbrook decide to distribute more like a traditional pg's. They both CAN do it. They have to just decide that is what they are going to do.

[bwgood77]

Spoiler:

Westbrook obviously adds more than he takes away, and without two historically good teams this year, I think they'd be right in the mix, but as Bill Simmons pointed out last night, he is the 4th worst 3 pt shooter of all time who has taken more than 1,500 (less than 30%). Of course Kobe isn't much better in that respect, and he was the best player on some championship teams.

Westbrook is so good with assists and rebounds that he makes up for it though imo. Last night they shot terribly. As for Harden, you are right to some extent but also they played better the two years after him in the regular season, only to have terrible injuries in the playoffs (Westbrook in year one and Ibaka in year two, and they still took the champion Spurs to 7 games as the lower seed without him for much of the series).

I think their bigger problem is having subpar role players around those two.

Westbrook is a force of nature and a terrific player, and a team can be a perennial contender with him. But in close situations in the playoffs, the little things come into greater focus. Westbrook plays a borderline-reckless/All-Star Game style of basketball that results in poor shot selection, poor decisions, and poor execution a little too often. While Kobe Bryant has long been an overrated three-point shooter, he has actually looked good in that area compared to Westbrook. Westbrook's turnover rate is also very high, and although he improved somewhat this season, his career assists-to-turnover ratio is quite poor for a point guard. Two years ago, he fared terribly in overtime sessions in the playoffs as the Thunder went 1-4 in those situations. Playing all but the final six seconds of those five overtime periods, Westbrook combined to score 3 points in 24:54 of playing time, shooting 1-21 (.048) from the field, 0-7 (.000) on threes, and 3-5 (.600) from the free throw line. Sure, he grabbed 10 rebounds in those five overtime sessions—the energy, effort, and athleticism were there. But the shot selection and ability to play within a flow in half-court situations, which are what close playoff games and overtimes usually come down to, were much more questionable.

Regular season basketball is one thing, but Harden gave Oklahoma City incredible versatility and made them less dependent on Westbrook's shot-out-of-a-cannon style. In the playoffs, being too predictable offensively can be deadly.

Also, Harden was just coming into his own in 2012. Had the Thunder kept him, the team's recent regular season records could have proved even better. Certainly, the team could have been better this year with Harden, as it blew fourteen fourth quarter leads in the regular season.

There has been some variance to the Thunder's role players over the years, but they have also possessed some solid pieces. Even now, one could do much worse than Serge Ibaka and the Steven Adams/Enes Kanter combination up front.

Oklahoma City is a very good club, but I do not see the Thunder as being a top-of-the-league type of team in most any year. With the staggering amount of parity and mediocrity in the NBA right now (beyond the top couple of clubs), Oklahoma City also could have posted a swollen or inflated record, like Golden State or San Antonio, if the Thunder was good enough. Actually, Oklahoma City’s record may be a little inflated by all this parity and mediocrity (outside of the very top teams), too.

Again, Westbrook is an elite guard and a historic one in certain respects. But he can be something of a bull in a china shop, and winning a championship with a bull in a china shop at point guard may be an oxymoron—if you are too dependent on him. Harden’s presence would have allowed Oklahoma City to be more flexible in its half-court sets and foster needed diversification.

Frankly, Game Three on Friday night constituted a perfect example. With the score tied at 88 and less than five minutes remaining in the fourth quarter, Westbrook found himself guarded by LaMarcus Aldridge on a switch off the pick-and-roll, high on the left wing. There were still at least six seconds remaining on the shot clock, and Aldridge was all over Westbrook, not giving him any air space out at the three-point line. Nonetheless, Westbrook—a .296 three-point shooter on the regular season and a .302 three-point shooter for his regular season career—attempted a step-back three over Aldridge.

To be sure, Westbrook had buried a step-back three a couple of minutes earlier, but that one had come against a mid-sized defender, Danny Green, and Westbrook had enjoyed greater space. And Westbrook had nailed a step-back three in the third quarter off a switch against the 6’10” Tim Duncan, but Duncan is forty years old and Westbrook was able to create sufficient air space. This attempt, conversely, came against a highly mobile, 6’11” thirty-year old, with Aldridge all the way up on Westbrook, giving him no space late in the fourth quarter of a tie-game. Naturally, Westbrook missed, as one would have predicted based on the type of shot.

The playoffs, and the goal of winning a championship, magnifies the little things—decision-making, shot selection, the ability to make effective reads of matchups, situations, and floor dynamics, and the importance of every possession. Sheer talent is no longer enough. And the little things are where Westbrook struggles, along with an ability or willingness to play the percentages. In baseball, Greg Maddux once said that he viewed pitching as analogous to gambling at a casino: overall, the odds win out—not in every instance, but on average. Basketball is like that, too: there are exceptions, but on average, bad shots do not go in and reckless risks do not pan out. The exceptions end up faltering to the rule, which is why discipline results in championships. And Westbrook, for all his breathtaking athletic talent and ability to pile up numbers and even carry a club in the regular season, remains an undisciplined and imprecise point guard.

A little over a minute later, Westbrook forced a pass to the roll man (Serge Ibaka) off the pick-and-roll by failing to create a passing lane and not looking to rotate the ball to the weak side or re-do the play, letting Ibaka come back and re-set the screen. About ninety seconds later, Westbrook failed to protect the ball off the dribble and committed his third turnover of the quarter.
And these sorts of bad decisions and failures to execute in the half-court were not aberrant; they happen routinely with Russell Westbrook.

Of course, the fourth quarter also saw what renders him an elite guard. On one play, he galloped toward the hoop in transition and scored over a defender; on another, he drew a shooting foul in a similar situation and nailed his free throws. Indeed, Russell Westbrook, with his speed, good size, long strides, and ability to elevate, may constitute the most unstoppable scoring point guard in fast break situations that the game has ever seen.

On another play late in the fourth quarter, he slammed back a teammate’s miss with a two-handed jam. (Point guards generally are supposed to get back on defense to protect against uncontested fast breaks, not to go to the offensive glass, but Westbrook’s extraordinary athleticism makes some chances in that regard worthwhile.)

Nonetheless, erratic decision-making and execution from a star point guard can hamstring a club’s championship hopes, and these patterns have long existed and remain very much evident with Russell Westbrook. He is a “superstar,” yet is he a great player? The answer rests with one’s definition, but he lacks the basketball intelligence of a great point guard.

Of course, if Westbrook plays well in Game Four this afternoon and leads Oklahoma City to a victory with a triple-double, the media will rant and rave about the triple-double …

I didn't watch that game closely, but seeing that Westbrook was 10-31 and Durant was 10-18 told me all I needed to know about Westbrook's decision making...they were also mentioning that Leonard was on him a bit, which made me wonder why he just didn't feed Durant more.

It seemed like he somewhat learned his lesson or got some hard coaching between games, because in the next game, even though he was 5-18, Durant was 14-25 and Westbrook had 15 assists.

The funny thing is, that even in the 3rd game when Westbrook had 31 shots, he still had 8 assists, so sometimes when I think he needs to pass more yet is still among league leaders in assists, it feels odd to mention it, but I believe that he could probably average something like 13 or 14 assists per game playing with Durant if he just focused a little more on distributing and a little less on scoring.

But I wouldn't complain much about him if he played for the Suns. I'm sure I might get frustrated at times, but probably not as much as I was with Knight this season (though one could argue that Westbrook, doing it on a larger stage against the Spurs in a close game in the 2nd round makes it much more frustrating than anything Knight did this season....not to say Knight wouldn't do the same things in big playoff games if he is ever fortunate enough to play in one).

[GMATCallahan]

So glad to see a competitive series. Honestly, I would love to see OKC win this series. It would be better for the Suns if Durant stays in OKC and doesn't fly this summer to a place like San Antonio. More parity in the league is more opportunity for the Suns to build into something.

Anyone else notice that both Cleveland and OKC are better when Kyrie and Westbrook decide to distribute more like a traditional pg's. They both CAN do it. They have to just decide that is what they are going to do.

I am not sure that the matter applies as much to Irving, though, because with "point forward" LeBron James in tow, Irving often is not running the offense anyway. James often serves as the Cavaliers' de facto point guard in both full-court and half-court situations—which renders Cleveland a much more dangerous club, in my opinion, because the Cavs become more fluid, flexible, and unpredictable that way. The point of attack becomes a moving target and opposing defenses cannot "lock-and-load" as easily. If Kyrie Irving had to run an offense without another playmaker such as James by his side, I doubt that he could lead a club to significant success whether he is functioning more as a passer or as a scorer.

Point being ... if Lil' Kyrie becomes carried away, Daddy LeBron can always take away his toy.

In Westbrook's case, the ball is in his hands a ton in both the full court and the half court. The media was making a big deal about him attempting 31 field goals in Game Three, but to me the matter was more qualitative than quantitative. Westbrook can attempt 31 field goals, but the question is the quality of those shots—the issue that I was referring to in my previous post, especially that one awful shot that he attempted over Aldridge in the fourth quarter of Game Three with the score tied at 85. Granted, if someone attempts a large volume of field goals, chances are greater that too many of them will be poor shots—but not necessarily. The 31 field goal attempts could have been acceptable if Westbrook had not forced as many of them or had not settled for lesser shots rather than waiting to create better ones.

And even in Game Four, Westbrook still attempted 18 field goals—not a high number, but certainly not a modest number for a point guard.

Anyway, Westbrook is shooting .333 from the field and .227 on threes in 5.5 attempts per contest through the first four games of this series. For Oklahoma City to actually pull the series out, which I doubt will occur, he is going to need to become much more efficient from here on out.

[saintEscaton]

LMAO remember when some thought our backcourt duo was better than Portland's just because we beat them on a back to back to open the season?

[darealjuice]

LMAO remember when some ought our backcourt duo was better than Portland's just because we beat them on a back to back to open the season?

Well Bledsoe and Knight outplayed them in both of those games, and McCollum was a new starter who hadn't done anything significant in the league yet, so it wasn't really the craziest thought at the time

[saintEscaton]

LMAO remember when some ought our backcourt duo was better than Portland's just because we beat them on a back to back to open the season?

Well Bledsoe and Knight outplayed them in both of those games, and McCollum was a new starter who hadn't done anything significant in the league yet, so it wasn't really the craziest thought at the time

Dame alone makes it a no contest

[saintEscaton]

LMAO remember when some ought our backcourt duo was better than Portland's just because we beat them on a back to back to open the season?

Well Bledsoe and Knight outplayed them in both of those games, and McCollum was a new starter who hadn't done anything significant in the league yet, so it wasn't really the craziest thought at the time

Dame alone makes it a no contest

[GMATCallahan]

I didn't watch that game closely, but seeing that Westbrook was 10-31 and Durant was 10-18 told me all I needed to know about Westbrook's decision making...they were also mentioning that Leonard was on him a bit, which made me wonder why he just didn't feed Durant more.

It seemed like he somewhat learned his lesson or got some hard coaching between games, because in the next game, even though he was 5-18, Durant was 14-25 and Westbrook had 15 assists.

The funny thing is, that even in the 3rd game when Westbrook had 31 shots, he still had 8 assists, so sometimes when I think he needs to pass more yet is still among league leaders in assists, it feels odd to mention it, but I believe that he could probably average something like 13 or 14 assists per game playing with Durant if he just focused a little more on distributing and a little less on scoring.

But I wouldn't complain much about him if he played for the Suns. I'm sure I might get frustrated at times, but probably not as much as I was with Knight this season (though one could argue that Westbrook, doing it on a larger stage against the Spurs in a close game in the 2nd round makes it much more frustrating than anything Knight did this season....not to say Knight wouldn't do the same things in big playoff games if he is ever fortunate enough to play in one).

Westbrook is a much better player than Knight, for sure. Westbrook is a physically dominant guard who reaches the free throw line at high volumes, impacts the game in a positive manner defensively, and brings a high level of aggression and intensity. Knight, conversely, offers poor shot selection and sloppy offensive possessions with virtually none of Westbrook's redeeming attributes.

I do not believe that Westbrook could average 13-14 assists per game under any circumstances, however. First, no one has ever done so outside of John Stockton, Isiah Thomas, Kevin Porter, and Magic Johnson, and Westbrook is not a historically elite passer or playmaker. Although he has become a good, functional playmaker, his assists come partly from him dominating the ball and being aggressive in general. If ones takes away his aggressiveness and his domination of the ball, Westbrook's assists would probably decrease. And that point leads me to my second one, which is that the concern is not necessarily with a player's assists total, but with whether or how the ball moves. For instance, in Game Two of the 1993 Western Conference Finals, Kevin Johnson "only" passed for 4 assists (he attempted 8 field goals), but if one studies the game, he recorded the so-called "hockey assist" (the pass that directly leads to someone else's assist), or a pass that directly led to a teammate shooting free throws, on a number of occasions. Add those other passes up, and Johnson would have passed for about 10 assists. With Westbrook, conversely, you get much less of those types of passes and much less "flow" on average. (The Suns still lost that game that I mentioned, in part because K.J. missed five straight free throws at one point, among a host of other reasons, but despite what various media reports or analyses may have said, him only posting 4 assists was not a principal factor.)

Westbrook, to me, is tantamount to a fusion of Allen Iverson and Jason Kidd—which sounds incredible, except that I consider Iverson and Kidd to be two of the more overrated players in NBA history. (I would have voted for Iverson on the Hall of Fame ballot and I would do the same with Kidd, but the Hall of Fame is only so significant: some players currently not in the Hall were much better than a lot of players who are in the Hall.) Neither Iverson (career .518 True Shooting Percentage, career .401 field goal shooter in the playoffs, career 1.72:1.00 assists-to-turnover ratio) nor Kidd (career .507 True Shooting Percentage and under .500 before he became a role player during his second stint in Dallas, all the while attempting more field goals than one might imagine) constituted an efficient offensive player or usually spearheaded an efficient offense.

Westbrook is somewhat better in those regards, but he suffers from some of the same flaws and tendencies, with the Iverson analogy being especially relevant in terms of this discussion. Some time after the Nuggets had shipped Iverson to Detroit in November 2008 in exchange for Chauncey Billups, Denver head coach George Karl talked about how his team's offense was running more smoothly—how the Nuggets had largely eliminated the 'bad possessions' that had once plagued them: broken plays, forced shots, sloppy turnovers, that sort of thing. And the reason, naturally, had to do with the elimination of Iverson and replacing him with a steadier hand at the wheel. Westbrook, conversely, is prone to some of the same 'bad possession' patterns that Iverson displayed.

When Denver acquired Iverson from Philadelphia in January 2007, Jon Barry stated on ESPN that the guard might now average 15 assists. After all, Iverson would be joining forces with Carmelo Anthony. Instead, Iverson's assists averages were no better—actually slightly worse—than they had been over his last couple of years with the Sixers. For after all, while Iverson could now pass to more talented offensive players, Anthony especially, he would no longer dominate the ball as much as he had in Philadelphia. Iverson was not some secret 15-assist guy waiting to happen: his assists represented a byproduct of his ball domination and scoring aggressiveness. I believe that the same is true of Westbrook.

Iverson was not a true point guard, and neither is Westbrook, but a guard's assists do not necessarily correlate with the presence of a star front-court player or great offensive talent in general. In the last two years that he played with Charles Barkley, Kevin Johnson averaged 8.2 assists per contest in the 91 regular season games that he played with Barkley, compared to 10.6 assists in the 12 regular season games that he played without Barkley. In both years, K.J.'s season-high for assists came in games where Barkley did not play.

http://www.databasebasketball.com/teams/boxscore.htm?yr=1994&b=19950415&tm=PHO

http://www.databasebasketball.com/teams/boxscore.htm?yr=1995&b=19960419&tm=PHO

Steve Nash, of course, never averaged as many as 9.0 assists per game in six seasons playing with Dirk Nowitzki in Dallas. And after Amar'e Stoudemire departed Phoenix, Nash's assists average proved unaffected. In his last two seasons with the Suns, after the departure of Stoudemire (plus other explosive scorers in Jason Richardson and Leandro Barbosa), Nash averaged 11.1 assists. Over his previous six seasons in Phoenix, Nash averaged 10.9 assists. With less explosive scoring talent around him in his final two years with the club, the Suns' pace slowed a bit and Nash thus ended up dominating the ball even more.

[letsgosuns]

Westbrook is amazing. I would take him on my team any day. He has arguably the best motor in the league. He plays with 100% effort from the opening tip to the final buzzer. That is like the opposite of Bledsoe, who routinely takes off parts of games. Seriously I remember watching Bledsoe and there were points in nearly every game where I thought he was completely zoned out on the court. Like when he jogs up the court and lazily tosses the ball to a teammate and the pass is picked off. That is a complete lack of focus. That is my biggest issue with him and why I do not think he is the type of guy that can be a major contributor on a championship team.

[bwgood77]

I do not believe that Westbrook could average 13-14 assists per game under any circumstances, however.

Well, he averaged 10.4 apg during the regular season (second behind Rondo), and 18.1 shots, and in the postseason he has averaged 10.9 apg and 20.9 shots.

I can't imagine if he just focused a little more on getting others involved, that he couldn't average an extra 2.6 apg. Heck, even if he had played in some type of SSOL offense, that increased Nash's assists numbers significantly, or on a run-n-gun showtime Lakers team like Magic had, I think he could easily bring up that average.

Many of his triple doubles, he scored 30-40 points, so a small change in focus seems like it could have quite an impact.

As for Iverson (who I can't compare to Westbrook at all...I consider Westbrook a FAR better player), and KJ, their assists went down with Melo and Barkley because those guys were not finishers as much as they were iso type players, which don't lead to assists for whoever got them the ball.

If Westbrook had a teammate such as Karl Malone or played in an offense that featured more pick n roll, and plays designed to be finished off a pass, or even a fast paces team offense, I think his results would change.

[Damkac]

Westbrook can make insane numbers and has endless energy. But I'm not sure if one player trying to win by himself is good for the team. Especially if he plays with other great player who is more efficient at scoring.
Are two players scoring 15 points worse for the team than one player scoring 30 points if this takes the same amount of shots?

[saintEscaton]

I do not believe that Westbrook could average 13-14 assists per game under any circumstances, however.

Well, he averaged 10.4 apg during the regular season (second behind Rondo), and 18.1 shots, and in the postseason he has averaged 10.9 apg and 20.9 shots.

I can't imagine if he just focused a little more on getting others involved, that he couldn't average an extra 2.6 apg. Heck, even if he had played in some type of SSOL offense, that increased Nash's assists numbers significantly, or on a run-n-gun showtime Lakers team like Magic had, I think he could easily bring up that average.

Many of his triple doubles, he scored 30-40 points, so a small change in focus seems like it could have quite an impact.

As for Iverson (who I can't compare to Westbrook at all...I consider Westbrook a FAR better player), and KJ, their assists went down with Melo and Barkley because those guys were not finishers as much as they were iso type players, which don't lead to assists for whoever got them the ball.

If Westbrook had a teammate such as Karl Malone or played in an offense that featured more pick n roll, and plays designed to be finished off a pass, or even a fast paces team offense, I think his results would change.

Blasphemy. AI is an all time great, he took a Sixer team full of past their prime scrubs to the Finals and singelhandedly won a game against the Shaq-Kobe Lakers. Russell has a ways to go before he can even be held in the same light

[bwgood77]

I do not believe that Westbrook could average 13-14 assists per game under any circumstances, however.

Well, he averaged 10.4 apg during the regular season (second behind Rondo), and 18.1 shots, and in the postseason he has averaged 10.9 apg and 20.9 shots.

I can't imagine if he just focused a little more on getting others involved, that he couldn't average an extra 2.6 apg. Heck, even if he had played in some type of SSOL offense, that increased Nash's assists numbers significantly, or on a run-n-gun showtime Lakers team like Magic had, I think he could easily bring up that average.

Many of his triple doubles, he scored 30-40 points, so a small change in focus seems like it could have quite an impact.

As for Iverson (who I can't compare to Westbrook at all...I consider Westbrook a FAR better player), and KJ, their assists went down with Melo and Barkley because those guys were not finishers as much as they were iso type players, which don't lead to assists for whoever got them the ball.

If Westbrook had a teammate such as Karl Malone or played in an offense that featured more pick n roll, and plays designed to be finished off a pass, or even a fast paces team offense, I think his results would change.

Blasphemy. AI is an all time great, he took a Sixer team full of past their prime scrubs to the Finals and singelhandedly won a game against the Shaq-Kobe Lakers. Russell has a ways to go before he can even be held in the same light

That eastern conference was weak. He had the right role players at that time around him to cover his deficiencies. Mutombo was pulling down massive rebounds and blocking shots.

Westbrook has put up stat lines that pretty much no one has since Oscar Robertson. It's not a terrible comparison on offense, but Westbrook still is the better assist guy, but Westbrook is a much better rebounder and can block shots and play tougher defense even though he gambles too much.

Iverson was a massive dribbler...Webber even once said he couldn't play with him because all he does is dribble. Westbrook is much better at initating offensive flow even though he should do it more often. Iverson rarely did it at all.