Orlando Magic Free Agency Guide (Cap Info UPDATED page 37)

[rusoopE]

Guys, havent we traded a 1st round pick to Philly from the EP - Saric trade? o.O

[SOUL]

Guys, havent we traded a 1st round pick to Philly from the EP - Saric trade? o.O

Are you inferring we traded our first round pick this year or are you saying in general?

I'm pretty sure the pick we traded was the one where we would've gotten it this year (or the next few years) if the Sixers made the playoffs, which isn't going to happen.

[Bensational]

IMO, it's only worth spending big, long term money on big FAs who will make you a contender.

So if this season we strike out on Durant + Horford/Conley/Batum/whoever, then we should save money and look to 2017.

In 2017, if a pitch to Westbrook/CP3 of "hey, take your pick of Griffin/Ibaka" doesn't work, then we should save our money and look to 2018.

In 2018, if we can't convince 2 of George/Harden/Cousins to sign, then we look to 2019.

In 2019, we look at Wall/whoever else is a star FA.

Meanwhile, we focus on the guys who look to be our strongest players (and most appealing to other FAs), and the ones who don't make the cut, we try to consolidate into tier 2 stars, or fold back down into draft assets, and continue searching for a star that way, too.

[Flannerz]

I'm starting to think the best we can do realistically is trade for Butler and go for Griffin and Ibaka next year?

[npiper17]

I think timing is pivotal - the consensus feeling is that the majority of stars won't come to a team without another star. So the Magic are faced with a chicken and egg type situation. They need to convince a star to come whilst saying to that first target that their signing would convince another guy to sign. They then probably need to do the same thing with the latter guy in the previous scenario. So who blinks first? Hopefully guys don't decide to forget the idea of coming together and sign elsewhere.

July 1st should certainly be interesting.

[rusoopE]

Guys, havent we traded a 1st round pick to Philly from the EP - Saric trade? o.O

Are you inferring we traded our first round pick this year or are you saying in general?

I'm pretty sure the pick we traded was the one where we would've gotten it this year (or the next few years) if the Sixers made the playoffs, which isn't going to happen.

Not this years pick tho, i thought it was the 2017 1st. imma check right now

[Skin]

Conley has already given the Grizzlies a warning that he may bolt if he doesn't see them making moves to be a true contender.

So I think if ORL is being honest with themselves that their only chance at landing Conley is by getting another star here. I don't think he signs here as the only big named FA. That said, I don't know if Conley and the current Magic squad is enough to entice Durant or Whiteside to come either... Is Conley and the Magic enough of a sell??? I have doubts. So getting 1 of KD/Whiteside will likely be a must in order to land Conley. If neither agree to come, Conley probably won't either. But yeah.... we should definitely chase as hard as we can.

Horford would be a bad investment, so I don't even want to entertain signing him. Especially when you compare him to the FAs in 2017.

Batum is a good player, but his fit on this team doesn't seem to jive. He's not a star that will lure other stars. He's old enough that he probably wants to win now... and there are other teams who can entice him more at this point than we can. Lastly, it sounds like CHA is not going to let money get in the way of bringing him back. I think he stays.

You can say the same about any top tier free agent, they all want max and they all want to compete. It will be the same next year. Signing role players on 1 year deals to meet the salary floor is not going to change anything.

As I've said before, I'm pretty neutral about Horford - he adds talent and experience to the roster...but I'd prefer to add an Ezeli/Biyombo type player for less.

How would Batum not fit? He's a point forward, that can defend 2-3's well, and is an effective versatile scorer.

As for next year's list... you're getting way ahead of yourself. But I'll play... if we have the capability to max out 2 players, then I could see us having an easier time attracting them that we do this year. I expect our team will be better and our players like Oladipo, Hezonja and Gordon could have much better success in recruiting FAs than they do right now, if they continue to raise their games.

If KD doesn't return to OKC... Westbrook and Ibaka could easily be looking for new homes. 2 good targets for us there. If KD returns, then OKC will be locked up with some crazy big contracts between KD, Westbrook, and Ibaka. The new CBA is designed to make it harder for teams to build superteams with big money FAs. OKC already paying $18 per for Kanter. Adams could find himself a new home or honestly, traded before the deadline.

If KD signs a one year deal, we could chase him again next summer too. If we do that, we can pair him with Griffin.

Noel's name has already floated around the rumor mill. Don't see that changing, especially if they keep playing him out of position and Embiid returns.

Just too many options. I don't get why you're shutting down your foresight just because you are aimed at this year's FA. I would hope that our GM has both a short term plan and a long term plan with all kinds of options.

I'm getting way ahead of myself? You are the one who put up that list of players saying next offseason had so many more and better free agent options. I just gave you the reasons as to why your list of players are not really good options and next offseason isn't any different than this summer.

The notion that the Magic can sign $50m in 1 year deals to reach the floor so that they save their cap space for next summer is totally unrealistic.

Westbrook is as much of a pipe dream as Durant. Ibaka and Westbrook leaving OKC to team up elsewhere is even more unrealistic. The new CBA doesn't do anything against the cap inflation. OKC will have plenty of cap space and they can resign their own players over the cap anyhow: http://www.basketballinsiders.com/oklahoma-city-thunder-team-salary/

I don't get why you are ignoring the most important window for the Magic to elevate their talent and experience level. The Magic need to raise their talent and experience level now; they need to begin the transition into a playoff team asap, so that by the time the key core is approaching their prime in 2-3 years they have been playing in meaningful games for a couple of seasons and the culture/identity of the franchise has set in.

Batum is gonna command the max and he isn't someone who would help reel in a big named star to play with him. Plus, we just drafted Hezonja and the only way I'm pushing him out of the picture is for someone like Butler or Durant. If Batum didn't command the max and we had money to afford a 3rd FA, then I'd be fine with him. I like his game at that level. But if our future is Hezonja, then I want a FA who knows his place in the pecking order but can still help. Someone like Deng would seem to fit.

I have a question... if Batum is one of your max signings who is your other? Ezeli/Biyombo? And do you bring back Fournier too? Is this how you see us getting into contention?

-----------

You can speculate doubt about 2017 FA, but I highly doubt you will be one of the posters here with nothing good to say about it next season. Things are constantly changing. LAC might look to blow it up. KD might not return to OKC and if he does they will be cash strapped. RFAs could be traded at the deadline. Nobody would've guessed at this point last year that Butler would even be remotely tradable.

[ezzzp]

I don't think any FA this summer not named Durant is good enough to propel a team to contending status.

So that's why I'm questioning the value in spending all our money on 2nd rate talent and limiting our window for acquiring legit championship talent. Or, what other options are available if we close the window on adding a superstar via free agency?

There are at best 3-5 players in the NBA that alone propel a team into contention. Acquiring one is a needle in a haystack, hail Mary pass.

In the meantime the 25 -27 other teams have to find alternate ways to compete. Sometimes chemistry and chance forge a really good player into a great one; or multiple really good ones combine for an effect greater than the sum of its parts; and those unexpected events propel a team into contention.

The Magic swung for option 1 by tanking but luck did not strike; thus they are part of the 25-27 teams looking for alternate ways to compete. The franchise can not afford to wait another 2-4 years for their core to reach their prime to find out if they are one of those franchise players.

Fortunately, one of the benefits of tanking and building through the draft is that it allows for the Magic to "create their own luck" and search for alternate ways to compete. Look at the Magic cap forecast:



Even in the highly unlikely scenario were all four key core players develop into max salary players, the Magic would still have enough cap space to pay for 1 to 2 max salaries in the first two years of those 4 year contracts and then would go over cap in the final two years

....and that's if all four core transform into max level players - which of course would be amazingly epic, but incredibly unlikely.

[MagicFan101]

Someone is going to pay Harrison Barnes and I really can't decide whether or not I would be pissed off if it were us. I know I wouldn't be thrilled but maybe I could be okay with it? I just can't decide. We just haven't seen enough of him. With Curry, Thompson, Draymond, Iggy and others Barnes has only been asked to be the #4 or 5 guy.

Can he be a legit #1 or 2?

If we keep Fournier, where does that put him and what does that mean for Dipo?

I don't see Barnes playing point-forward like Batum could.

I just don't know. You don't have to talk me out of signing Barnes but if anyone out there loves him I would like to hear why. I'm on the fence here.

[ezzzp]

Batum is gonna command the max and he isn't someone who would help reel in a big named star to play with him. Plus, we just drafted Hezonja and the only way I'm pushing him out of the picture is for someone like Butler or Durant. If Batum didn't command the max and we had money to afford a 3rd FA, then I'd be fine with him. I like his game at that level. But if our future is Hezonja, then I want a FA who knows his place in the pecking order but can still help. Someone like Deng would seem to fit.

I have a question... if Batum is one of your max signings who is your other? Ezeli/Biyombo? And do you bring back Fournier too? Is this how you see us getting into contention?

-----------

You can speculate doubt about 2017 FA, but I highly doubt you will be one of the posters here with nothing good to say about it next season. Things are constantly changing. LAC might look to blow it up. KD might not return to OKC and if he does they will be cash strapped. RFAs could be traded at the deadline. Nobody would've guessed at this point last year that Butler would even be remotely tradable.

If Batum is signed, its a 50-50 chance that Fournier is not retained. My gut is that he isn't retained; as Batum is superior and Mario should be (cross our fingers) ready to take on bigger role as the primary back up wing. The only reason RH retains Fournier is if he feels Mario won't be ready for a while.

Hezonja is on a rookie scale deal so he's locked in for several years regardless. He'll still be getting 25+ minutes with an increased offensive role. Plus, if Mario can't force Batum or Oladipo out of the starting line up by his third season then he likely isn't the star we were hoping for as that type of player would not be denied a starting role.

If you look at my response to Ben, you'll see that in my most realistic option is to offer Batum the max and split the remainder of cap space between Ezeli/Biyombo + Lin/Clarkson.

I gave you the link to OKC's cap page, they have plenty of cap space and can retain their own players over the cap regardless. Butler hasn't been traded, just because there is media speculation doesn't mean it actually did or will occur. Plus, acquiring players does not prevent the Magic from a trade if one became available, it actually gives them more options to trade with.

[OrlandoNed]

I don't think any FA this summer not named Durant is good enough to propel a team to contending status.

So that's why I'm questioning the value in spending all our money on 2nd rate talent and limiting our window for acquiring legit championship talent. Or, what other options are available if we close the window on adding a superstar via free agency?

There are at best 3-5 players in the NBA that alone propel a team into contention. Acquiring one is a needle in a haystack, hail Mary pass.

In the meantime the 25 -27 other teams have to find alternate ways to compete. Sometimes chemistry and chance forge a really good player into a great one; or multiple really good ones combine for an effect greater than the sum of its parts; and those unexpected events propel a team into contention.

The Magic swung for option 1 by tanking but luck did not strike; thus they are part of the 25-27 teams looking for alternate ways to compete. The franchise can not afford to wait another 2-4 years for their core to reach their prime to find out if they are one of those franchise players.

Fortunately, one of the benefits of tanking and building through the draft is that it allows for the Magic to "create their own luck" and search for alternate ways to compete. Look at the Magic cap forecast:



Even in the highly unlikely scenario were all four key core players develop into max salary players, the Magic would still have enough cap space to pay for 1 to 2 max salaries in the first two years of those 4 year contracts and then would go over cap in the final two years

....and that's if all four core transform into max level players - which of course would be amazingly epic, but incredibly unlikely.

Great post. This superstar or bust mentality is getting old. Newsflash: None of the free agent superstars are going to be banging down our door to join our sub 500 franchise in either 2016 or 2017. If you are holding your breath for Durant this year or Curry, Westbrook, Griffin, CP3 or whoever next year, you are gonna pass out from oxygen deprivation. Get a clue people, this isn't 2k. And this whole notion of turning away Horford because he's not a Durant level superstar is so mental. We'd be lucky just to have him hear a pitch from us.

[Skin]

Batum is gonna command the max and he isn't someone who would help reel in a big named star to play with him. Plus, we just drafted Hezonja and the only way I'm pushing him out of the picture is for someone like Butler or Durant. If Batum didn't command the max and we had money to afford a 3rd FA, then I'd be fine with him. I like his game at that level. But if our future is Hezonja, then I want a FA who knows his place in the pecking order but can still help. Someone like Deng would seem to fit.

I have a question... if Batum is one of your max signings who is your other? Ezeli/Biyombo? And do you bring back Fournier too? Is this how you see us getting into contention?

-----------

You can speculate doubt about 2017 FA, but I highly doubt you will be one of the posters here with nothing good to say about it next season. Things are constantly changing. LAC might look to blow it up. KD might not return to OKC and if he does they will be cash strapped. RFAs could be traded at the deadline. Nobody would've guessed at this point last year that Butler would even be remotely tradable.

If Batum is signed, its a 50-50 chance that Fournier is not retained. My gut is that he isn't retained; as Batum is superior and Mario should be (cross our fingers) ready to take on bigger role as the primary back up wing. The only reason RH retains Fournier is if he feels Mario won't be ready for a while.

Hezonja is on a rookie scale deal so he's locked in for several years regardless. He'll still be getting 25+ minutes with an increased offensive role. Plus, if Mario can't force Batum or Oladipo out of the starting line up by his third season then he likely isn't the star we were hoping for as that type of player would not be denied a starting role.

If you look at my response to Ben, you'll see that in my most realistic option is to offer Batum the max and split the remainder of cap space between Ezeli/Biyombo + Lin/Clarkson.

I gave you the link to OKC's cap page, they have plenty of cap space and can retain their own players over the cap regardless. Butler hasn't been traded, just because there is media speculation doesn't mean it actually did or will occur. Plus, acquiring players does not prevent the Magic from a trade if one became available, it actually gives them more options to trade with.

You can downplay 2017 FA all you want.

As soon as 2016 FA is over, you'll be talking about 2017 FA all throughout the season just like the rest of us.

Batum is at best a #3 option. We don't need to be offering him the max, $20M+ at the position we just spent our last two Top 5 picks at and can also retain Fournier.

Batum + Ezeli/Biyomo + Lin/Clarkson is not winning us a championship. Yikes if that happens. POOF goes our cap space for the next 4-5 years.

[BadMofoPimp]

Then if Henny Crash and burns again in 2017 Free Agency, we can start talking about 2018, then 2019 and then 2020!

[Skin]

I don't think any FA this summer not named Durant is good enough to propel a team to contending status.

So that's why I'm questioning the value in spending all our money on 2nd rate talent and limiting our window for acquiring legit championship talent. Or, what other options are available if we close the window on adding a superstar via free agency?

There are at best 3-5 players in the NBA that alone propel a team into contention. Acquiring one is a needle in a haystack, hail Mary pass.

In the meantime the 25 -27 other teams have to find alternate ways to compete. Sometimes chemistry and chance forge a really good player into a great one; or multiple really good ones combine for an effect greater than the sum of its parts; and those unexpected events propel a team into contention.

The Magic swung for option 1 by tanking but luck did not strike; thus they are part of the 25-27 teams looking for alternate ways to compete. The franchise can not afford to wait another 2-4 years for their core to reach their prime to find out if they are one of those franchise players.

Fortunately, one of the benefits of tanking and building through the draft is that it allows for the Magic to "create their own luck" and search for alternate ways to compete. Look at the Magic cap forecast:



Even in the highly unlikely scenario were all four key core players develop into max salary players, the Magic would still have enough cap space to pay for 1 to 2 max salaries in the first two years of those 4 year contracts and then would go over cap in the final two years

....and that's if all four core transform into max level players - which of course would be amazingly epic, but incredibly unlikely.

Great post. This superstar or bust mentality is getting old. Newsflash: None of the free agent superstars are going to be banging down our door to join our sub 500 franchise in either 2016 or 2017. If you are holding your breath for Durant this year or Curry, Westbrook, Griffin, CP3 or whoever next year, you are gonna pass out from oxygen deprivation. Get a clue people, this isn't 2k. And this whole notion of turning away Horford because he's not a Durant level superstar is so mental. We'd be lucky just to have him hear a pitch from us.

You are right.

None of the top FAs are going to choose us... UNLESS....

We make a blockbuster trade for a star FIRST. Like making a play for Kyrie, Butler, Griffin, Cousins, Melo...

That's why I encouraged people to think about it with a game! Try it!

viewtopic.php?f=25&t=1439409

We have the cap space to add 2 max guys... but we need a star to lure them in.

Maybe next year we can lure a star in if Oladipo reaches stardom by next summer.

[Skin]

I don't think any FA this summer not named Durant is good enough to propel a team to contending status.

So that's why I'm questioning the value in spending all our money on 2nd rate talent and limiting our window for acquiring legit championship talent. Or, what other options are available if we close the window on adding a superstar via free agency?

There are at best 3-5 players in the NBA that alone propel a team into contention. Acquiring one is a needle in a haystack, hail Mary pass.

In the meantime the 25 -27 other teams have to find alternate ways to compete. Sometimes chemistry and chance forge a really good player into a great one; or multiple really good ones combine for an effect greater than the sum of its parts; and those unexpected events propel a team into contention.

The Magic swung for option 1 by tanking but luck did not strike; thus they are part of the 25-27 teams looking for alternate ways to compete. The franchise can not afford to wait another 2-4 years for their core to reach their prime to find out if they are one of those franchise players.

Fortunately, one of the benefits of tanking and building through the draft is that it allows for the Magic to "create their own luck" and search for alternate ways to compete. Look at the Magic cap forecast:



Even in the highly unlikely scenario were all four key core players develop into max salary players, the Magic would still have enough cap space to pay for 1 to 2 max salaries in the first two years of those 4 year contracts and then would go over cap in the final two years

....and that's if all four core transform into max level players - which of course would be amazingly epic, but incredibly unlikely.

This is true if we don't bring Fournier back.

So would you support S&Ting this summer in order to preserve that space?

[ezzzp]

You can downplay 2017 FA all you want.

As soon as 2016 FA is over, you'll be talking about 2017 FA all throughout the season just like the rest of us.

Batum is at best a #3 option. We don't need to be offering him the max, $20M+ at the position we just spent our last two Top 5 picks at and can also retain Fournier.

Batum + Ezeli/Biyomo + Lin/Clarkson is not winning us a championship. Yikes if that happens. POOF goes our cap space for the next 4-5 years.

2017 free agency is no better or worse than the 2016 free agency. That is the only thing I have said. You said that 2017 was way better and the Magic should wait for 2017; I showed you why it was no different. The only real difference is that 4 year contracts signed in 2016 begin one year earlier than contracts signed in 2017; which btw is an advantage for the Magic cap space moving forward.

Batum is a #3 scoring option, but he's a point forward which makes everyone around him better and can defend the forward position very well.

Those acquisitions alone aren't winning you a championship, but outside of Durant or Lebron - no one else is either.

[Skin]

You can downplay 2017 FA all you want.

As soon as 2016 FA is over, you'll be talking about 2017 FA all throughout the season just like the rest of us.

Batum is at best a #3 option. We don't need to be offering him the max, $20M+ at the position we just spent our last two Top 5 picks at and can also retain Fournier.

Batum + Ezeli/Biyomo + Lin/Clarkson is not winning us a championship. Yikes if that happens. POOF goes our cap space for the next 4-5 years.

2017 free agency is no better or worse than the 2016 free agency. That is the only thing I have said. You said that 2017 was way better and the Magic should wait for 2017; I showed you why it was no different. The only real difference is that 4 year contracts signed in 2016 begin one year earlier than contracts signed in 2017; which btw is an advantage for the Magic cap space moving forward.

Batum is a #3 scoring option, but he's a point forward which makes everyone around him better and can defend the forward position very well.

Those acquisitions alone aren't winning you a championship, but outside of Durant or Lebron - no one else is either.

I think it's better, you don't. Opinion. We'll have to move on.

I didn't say they should look to 2017 as their first choice. I said if they strike out in 2016, don't go making stupid signings. Wait till next year. So clarification there.

Batum is a good player, but not worth the cost.

[ezzzp]

This is true if we don't bring Fournier back.

So would you support S&Ting this summer in order to preserve that space?

Depends on the free agency acquisitions. If the Magic land a high calibre forward - I seriously doubt they resign him. If they don't, they might as well match him and trade him down the road (similar to Harris)...S&T in RFA don't return value.

[Skin]

This is true if we don't bring Fournier back.

So would you support S&Ting this summer in order to preserve that space?

Depends on the free agency acquisitions. If the Magic land a high calibre forward - I seriously doubt they resign him. If they don't, they might as well match him and trade him down the road (similar to Harris)...S&T in RFA don't return value.

RFAs can return value if the team wants to keep him. They don't if the team wants to let him go to begin with.

Bledsoe was a RFA that we couldn't get because PHX wanted a lot in return. If we wanted any of the RFAs next summer like Noel, Adams, Giannis, Gobert... it would take a lot to do a S&T. Same can be said for Fournier. ...and Rob has said everything right as far as saying he has intentions on bringing him back. That's market talk.

[Def Swami]

This is true if we don't bring Fournier back.

So would you support S&Ting this summer in order to preserve that space?

Depends on the free agency acquisitions. If the Magic land a high calibre forward - I seriously doubt they resign him. If they don't, they might as well match him and trade him down the road (similar to Harris)...S&T in RFA don't return value.

Why let him walk at all? So long as Fournier is okay with waiting to sign an offer sheet until the Magic finish in unrestricted free agency, I don't see any reason for the Magic to not pay and keep him.