"WCIHAoTDP?" - 2016 Draft Thread P.2

[sully00]

The hate on the Greek Freak is unbelievable in this post. The dude is younger than half the players in this draft and he dominates NBA games. I could care less if at this point in his career if he doesn't have a position, the kid is a stud.

But you didn't refute anything I said because it is all a fact. I don't care if doesn't have a position he just needs to be great at something or good at everything. He is average at everything, and his team has suffered as his role has expanded. Great he is young tall and skinny. But he is 21 and has 3 years in the league, he has played over 7000 mins.

Don't get me wrong I don't think he is a bad player, I just think he is vastly overrated. Kevin Durant at 21 and his 3rd season in the league was avg 30/7/3. Could he be Lamar Odom? Maybe. I just don't see year 3 Kevin Garnett. I see individual great plays, he certainly can take over a game or a half but he doesn't do night to night and it doesn't result in wins. I just don't see a star player a stud as you say, I see a good player.

I will take a player with an Odom floor and a KG ceiling anyday. Odom would be a HOFer if not for drugs and other issues. How many 21 year olds have averaged 17 points, 8 rebs, 4 assists and more than a block and a steal a game? Sign me up. Could I see him averaging 20, 10, 5, 2 steals and 2 blocks? absolutely. Could I see him "only" averaging 17, 8, 4, 1 and 1 and developing finer aspects of the game? sure. Either way sign me up!!

Not if your team is going to win 33 games doing it. The Bucks were on a pace to win 46 games when they dealt away Knight and essentially handed the team over to Giannis. A season and a half later they play at 50 loss pace. I don't think it is his fault but I think the decision to play him in the backcourt and now at the PG contribute heavily to the fact that they have regressed as a franchise despite having some pretty damn good individual offensive players. Their team offense has sucked throughout but they were a hell of a defensive team but now they suck on defense too. I guess you see him scratching his potential and I see him overexposed. He should be the next Luol Deng not Magic Johnson.

[celtxman]

Not a thing in the world. Kukoc was a national hero. Played next to Jordan. I'm just not all that jazzed about drafting the next Toni Kukoc. I'd like someone who's gonna make more of an impact than that.We already had that player on this team except we called him Evan Turner. There is a risk with drafting this kid. That's all I'm saying.

First, did you say Kukoc is as good as Evan Turner? This cannot be right.

Second, Idolizing Kukoc has nothing to do with Bender's ceiling, not at all.

Yeah -the thing that jumped out at me about Bender is that he is said to have a "high motor." The Kukoc stuff doesn't mean anything

[Leprechaun18]

Look this mock has Poeltl going 7. His stock is rising after his workout. It will continue to rise.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2642823-2016-nba-mock-draft-predictions-pro-comparisons-for-elite-frontcourt-prospects

[FlatearthZorro]

But you didn't refute anything I said because it is all a fact. I don't care if doesn't have a position he just needs to be great at something or good at everything. He is average at everything, and his team has suffered as his role has expanded. Great he is young tall and skinny. But he is 21 and has 3 years in the league, he has played over 7000 mins.

Don't get me wrong I don't think he is a bad player, I just think he is vastly overrated. Kevin Durant at 21 and his 3rd season in the league was avg 30/7/3. Could he be Lamar Odom? Maybe. I just don't see year 3 Kevin Garnett. I see individual great plays, he certainly can take over a game or a half but he doesn't do night to night and it doesn't result in wins. I just don't see a star player a stud as you say, I see a good player.

I will take a player with an Odom floor and a KG ceiling anyday. Odom would be a HOFer if not for drugs and other issues. How many 21 year olds have averaged 17 points, 8 rebs, 4 assists and more than a block and a steal a game? Sign me up. Could I see him averaging 20, 10, 5, 2 steals and 2 blocks? absolutely. Could I see him "only" averaging 17, 8, 4, 1 and 1 and developing finer aspects of the game? sure. Either way sign me up!!

Not if your team is going to win 33 games doing it. The Bucks were on a pace to win 46 games when they dealt away Knight and essentially handed the team over to Giannis. A season and a half later they play at 50 loss pace. I don't think it is his fault but I think the decision to play him in the backcourt and now at the PG contribute heavily to the fact that they have regressed as a franchise despite having some pretty damn good individual offensive players. Their team offense has sucked throughout but they were a hell of a defensive team but now they suck on defense too. I guess you see him scratching his potential and I see him overexposed. He should be the next Luol Deng not Magic Johnson.

I kinda agree with you, sully00... I think Giannis will probably be an allstar, eventually, but he''s not a HOF type of player, unless he changes a lot. Also trading away Knight, who was playing so well for them, was imo, a huge mistake... Set them back years.. He was their most important player at the time and it showed(brought some shooting that they are sorely lacking right now + the defense and playmaking)..

Back to the draft - I see Danny drafting one of Dunn/Bender at #3... I'm hoping it's not Brown.. Regardless of who Danny drafts, if he keeps the picks, I wont be mad, I'll give it time, before I judge.

[Fidel Sarcasmo]

I've only seen the draft express videos of these Jaylen Brown and from what I've seen of him, when they commend his slashing ability, I see a guy where nba level players can read his intentions when slashing. His slashing highlights just seem predictable. I'm not seeing it with this guy. But, again, I'm no scout. Based on whose expected to be there at 3, my top guys are:

1.Dunn
2. Bender (Project)
2.Murray (best catch and shoot guy)

[sam_I_am]

Nobody with a top 14 pick said that in 2013 about a 6-11 kid who fancied himself a PG either and that freak is now considered the steal and best player in the draft.

Agreed. Other than being 6-11 and from another country I'm not ready to call this kid Giannis' brother from another mother. If you do, good for you. I remember Kukoc as a nice player. But that's it. I thought his game was nice. Phill made it work in the triangle. He was at best a #3 scorer. I'm seeing posts declaring "Kid Kukoc" here a star in a year or 2. I'm just saying. Before you go on expect Antetekounpo, I'm just saying there's a chance you might get Kukoc instead...or worse.

First of all Giannis is still the most overrated player in the NBA. He doesn't rebound well enough to be a PF, doesn't shoot well enough to play on the wing and doesn't defend any position well. They play him at PG and he can't manage a 2:1 ratio. He is a better passer than Tobias Harris but they are very similar players. The Bucks went from Brandon Knight's team to Giannis' team and collapsed.

Giannis wouldn't play 30mpg for Jordan's Bulls what are you guys smoking? Kukoc was a more consistent 3pt stroke away from being a great player. He was a 3 time NBA champion and 6th man of the year. I will take Toni Kukoc at #3. That said Bender is bigger, a better rebounder, and a better shooter so if he is a better rebounding and shooting version of Kukoc then sign me up.

Regardless of whether you are right or wrong, Giannis has extreme value and could easily be the big Al in a KG type trade.

[lon3lytoaster]

I've only seen the draft express videos of these Jaylen Brown and from what I've seen of him, when they commend his slashing ability, I see a guy where nba level players can read his intentions when slashing. His slashing highlights just seem predictable. I'm not seeing it with this guy. But, again, I'm no scout. Based on whose expected to be there at 3, my top guys are:

1.Dunn
2. Bender (Project)
2.Murray (best catch and shoot guy)

I'd agree on Brown in regards to not seeing it. He does have some quickness and his footwork when he gets to the rim is actually pretty good but yeah, I'm not sure. As a prospect he seems like a Danny Ainge wet dream.

I absolutely think he'd be one of the two guys we're likely to pick but I'd need some further convincing on him. I really want to like him but it'll take a bit.

[bucknersrevenge]

Not a thing in the world. Kukoc was a national hero. Played next to Jordan. I'm just not all that jazzed about drafting the next Toni Kukoc. I'd like someone who's gonna make more of an impact than that.We already had that player on this team except we called him Evan Turner. There is a risk with drafting this kid. That's all I'm saying.

First, did you say Kukoc is as good as Evan Turner? This cannot be right.

Second, Idolizing Kukoc has nothing to do with Bender's ceiling, not at all.

Not "idolize", "pattern his game after".

[Jstock12]

Please give the kid a break.
What's wrong for a Croatian boy to worship a Croatian basketball hero?

Not a thing in the world. Kukoc was a national hero. Played next to Jordan. I'm just not all that jazzed about drafting the next Toni Kukoc. I'd like someone who's gonna make more of an impact than that.We already had that player on this team except we called him Evan Turner. There is a risk with drafting this kid. That's all I'm saying.

To be fair, much like Arvydas Sabonis (although not quite to the same extent) Kukoc has spent his best basketball years in Europe when he 3-peated for the Euroleague title with his hometown team. It was epic. The NBA Toni Kukoc wasn't quite the same guy. He was slower and less agile (and those attributes were his bread and butter when he was younger). And who's to say that Bender doesn't idolize that prime legend that was dominating in Europe, and not the NBA version which, to be fair, was still a very solid role player.

[Bluewhale]

Not a thing in the world. Kukoc was a national hero. Played next to Jordan. I'm just not all that jazzed about drafting the next Toni Kukoc. I'd like someone who's gonna make more of an impact than that.We already had that player on this team except we called him Evan Turner. There is a risk with drafting this kid. That's all I'm saying.

First, did you say Kukoc is as good as Evan Turner? This cannot be right.

Second, Idolizing Kukoc has nothing to do with Bender's ceiling, not at all.

Not "idolize", "pattern his game after".

The student could surpasses the master.

Especially if the student is taller than the master.

This is nothing about the ceiling.

[Murta]

1. Simmons to Philly is pretty clear now since Colangelo said publicly he doesn't consider team fit when it comes to #1 and he is almost certain who to pick.

2. From the recent articles my impression is that Austin Ainge likes Bender and he would be his pick, but Danny is open-minded right now.

3. Draftexpress moved Chriss to #3 in last hour. Dunno why, I can't see that happening, but I think he could be in play for #5 trade-down. I also think he'll be Phoenix's choice if Bender goes 3rd.

[bucknersrevenge]

Please give the kid a break.
What's wrong for a Croatian boy to worship a Croatian basketball hero?

Not a thing in the world. Kukoc was a national hero. Played next to Jordan. I'm just not all that jazzed about drafting the next Toni Kukoc. I'd like someone who's gonna make more of an impact than that.We already had that player on this team except we called him Evan Turner. There is a risk with drafting this kid. That's all I'm saying.

To be fair, much like Arvydas Sabonis (although not quite to the same extent) Kukoc has spent his best basketball years in Europe when he 3-peated for the Euroleague title with his hometown team. It was epic. The NBA Toni Kukoc wasn't quite the same guy. He was slower and less agile (and those attributes were his bread and butter when he was younger). And who's to say that Bender doesn't idolize that prime legend that was dominating in Europe, and not the NBA version which, to be fair, was still a very solid role player.

That is a fair, well-played argument to which I cannot refute. Like I said, IF we draft him, I root for laundry so I will hope that he plays well. My first choice is still to trade the pick. He is a gamble no doubt. One I'm still not sure I want. But we'll see what happens. Appreciate you for sharing your perspective.

[galipeautim]

I will take a player with an Odom floor and a KG ceiling anyday. Odom would be a HOFer if not for drugs and other issues. How many 21 year olds have averaged 17 points, 8 rebs, 4 assists and more than a block and a steal a game? Sign me up. Could I see him averaging 20, 10, 5, 2 steals and 2 blocks? absolutely. Could I see him "only" averaging 17, 8, 4, 1 and 1 and developing finer aspects of the game? sure. Either way sign me up!!

Not if your team is going to win 33 games doing it. The Bucks were on a pace to win 46 games when they dealt away Knight and essentially handed the team over to Giannis. A season and a half later they play at 50 loss pace. I don't think it is his fault but I think the decision to play him in the backcourt and now at the PG contribute heavily to the fact that they have regressed as a franchise despite having some pretty damn good individual offensive players. Their team offense has sucked throughout but they were a hell of a defensive team but now they suck on defense too. I guess you see him scratching his potential and I see him overexposed. He should be the next Luol Deng not Magic Johnson.

I kinda agree with you, sully00... I think Giannis will probably be an allstar, eventually, but he''s not a HOF type of player, unless he changes a lot. Also trading away Knight, who was playing so well for them, was imo, a huge mistake... Set them back years.. He was their most important player at the time and it showed(brought some shooting that they are sorely lacking right now + the defense and playmaking)..

Back to the draft - I see Danny drafting one of Dunn/Bender at #3... I'm hoping it's not Brown.. Regardless of who Danny drafts, if he keeps the picks, I wont be mad, I'll give it time, before I judge.

Brandon Knight is a horrible defensive player and has never shot greater than 42% from the floor. What player are you watching? Phoenix thoroughly regrets that trade and will probably lose a high Lakers pick next year as a result.

[Marley2Hendrix]

Please give the kid a break.
What's wrong for a Croatian boy to worship a Croatian basketball hero?

Not a thing in the world. Kukoc was a national hero. Played next to Jordan. I'm just not all that jazzed about drafting the next Toni Kukoc. I'd like someone who's gonna make more of an impact than that.We already had that player on this team except we called him Evan Turner. There is a risk with drafting this kid. That's all I'm saying.

To be fair, much like Arvydas Sabonis (although not quite to the same extent) Kukoc has spent his best basketball years in Europe when he 3-peated for the Euroleague title with his hometown team. It was epic. The NBA Toni Kukoc wasn't quite the same guy. He was slower and less agile (and those attributes were his bread and butter when he was younger). And who's to say that Bender doesn't idolize that prime legend that was dominating in Europe, and not the NBA version which, to be fair, was still a very solid role player.

There was a good write-up of Bender posted much earlier in which Bender explained that he developed his love for Toni's game by watching old videos of his tenure with MJ's Bulls shortly after leaving his parents' home.

[CeltsfanSinceBirth]

Danny and Austin Ainge, quietly raising the value of that 3rd pick. I'm thinking we'll see many players' stock rising before the draft. .

[Leprechaun18]

Jay King Verified account
‏@ByJayKing

FWIW, Ainge said he thought Jaylen Brown had an "excellent" workout today for the Celtics.

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1:01 PM - 1 Jun 2016

This Jay King has some interesting things about the Celtics.

[ryaningf]

Danny Ainge, admitting he's scared of drafting international players:

"I think it's more challenging (to scout international players)," Ainge said, "because I'll see most of the players that are in the draft a few times a year at least, sometimes as many as seven or eight times a year. And I can watch a lot of their film. But in international competition, there's such a different level of competition. So I think that it's easier when you're around the college game so much, and you watch so much college basketball, and the European games over there, they may play one game against a really bad team, and another game against a really good team, and it's hard to evaluate the level of competition that they're playing against every night. There are exceptions. There are some leagues over there that are very powerful, better than college basketball. So it's a little bit more challenging, sure."

http://www.masslive.com/celtics/index.ssf/2016/06/2016_nba_draft_news_dragan_ben.html

[Ferulci]

This scares the bejeezus outta me. Drafting a guy at 3 that wants to be Toni Kukoc.

"Sign me up for that!" -said nobody...ever...not even Chicago.

Why ? While his NBA career was not HOF worthy, he might have been the best player to ever play in Europe. He was a 6'10 PG with incredible vision and range. Bender is croatian, what is so strange in likin a Croatian legend ?

[fallguy]

This scares the bejeezus outta me. Drafting a guy at 3 that wants to be Toni Kukoc.

"Sign me up for that!" -said nobody...ever...not even Chicago.

Why ? While his NBA career was not HOF worthy, he might have been the best player to ever play in Europe. He was a 6'10 PG with incredible vision and range. Bender is croatian, what is so strange in likin a Croatian legend ?

An in-his-prime Kukoc would be a nice fit in today's NBA.

[Shamrock]

Pretty impressive shooting for Hield

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rq-ajHhjnPg[/youtube]