Discussing Other Teams' Moves Part 5

[CobraCommander]

Thunder trade Ibaka for Orlando's (DCs own) Vic O... How does this make sense for either???

[FAH1223]

I don't like this move for the Thunder at all, why trade a starter to get a guy and use him as a backup? (Oladipo)

They need a starting level PF now too, Ersan was trash last year.

[SizzlinSimms]

Possible future move in case Durant signs a 1 year deal and leaves with Westbrook?

[CobraCommander]

Possible future move in case Durant signs a 1 year deal and leaves with Westbrook?

I guess.

[LyricalRico]

Possible future move in case Durant signs a 1 year deal and leaves with Westbrook?

I guess.

They do have to plan for the future, but I would think Plan A would be to make moves to get immediately closer to a title in order to convince KD to stay longterm. Not sure this does that. All depends on how fast Sabonis develops IMO. Is he a starter as a rookie? If not, what do they do at PF? Ilyasova isn't the answer, and starting Kanter creates it's own set of problems. Wondering if there's another move in the works. Maybe they can flip Ilyasova's expiring for something?

[LyricalRico]

From Orlando's perspective, I wonder if they use the acquisition of Ibaka to make a play for Durant. LOL He'd slide in perfectly at SF!

Vucevic/Ibaka
Ibaka/Gordon
Durant/Hezonja
Fournier/Hezonja
Peyton/Watson

[moocow007]

Knicks have one of the biggest cable markets, and the need to maintain high viewership seems to contribute to the team's penchant for big names at any cost. I think more casual fans will watch a 38-win Knicks team with Carmelo, Rose and Howard than a 43-win Knicks team built through draft and FA and led by Porzingis. Maybe there was a tacit agreement with Jackson to follow such a strategy, or maybe he's just doubling down on a likely loser game. They were lucky to have gotten Porzingis, but they don't seem at all interested in additional young assets.

I hadn't thought about the ratings angle, but that makes sense. I heard ESPN *cough* expert... Michael Wilbon talk about the trade. He was surprised NY got him for so little...

Honestly I don't think the trade was bad for NY. Here's some interesting takes from Sports Talk Live in Chicago about the deal that folks may find interesting. These are Bulls "insiders". 3 out of the 4 didn't like it for the Bulls.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yUhcjuvIf0U[/youtube]

[montestewart]

Knicks have one of the biggest cable markets, and the need to maintain high viewership seems to contribute to the team's penchant for big names at any cost. I think more casual fans will watch a 38-win Knicks team with Carmelo, Rose and Howard than a 43-win Knicks team built through draft and FA and led by Porzingis. Maybe there was a tacit agreement with Jackson to follow such a strategy, or maybe he's just doubling down on a likely loser game. They were lucky to have gotten Porzingis, but they don't seem at all interested in additional young assets.

I hadn't thought about the ratings angle, but that makes sense. I heard ESPN *cough* expert... Michael Wilbon talk about the trade. He was surprised NY got him for so little...

Honestly I don't think the trade was bad for NY. Here's some interesting takes from Sports Talk Live in Chicago about the deal that folks may find interesting. These are Bulls "insiders".

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yUhcjuvIf0U[/youtube]

As Wizards fan, I'm a little skeptical of players coming back from injuries (Arenas, cough cough).

[moocow007]

I hadn't thought about the ratings angle, but that makes sense. I heard ESPN *cough* expert... Michael Wilbon talk about the trade. He was surprised NY got him for so little...

Honestly I don't think the trade was bad for NY. Here's some interesting takes from Sports Talk Live in Chicago about the deal that folks may find interesting. These are Bulls "insiders".

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yUhcjuvIf0U[/youtube]

As Wizards fan, I'm a little skeptical of players coming back from injuries (Arenas, cough cough).

Oh I can bet.

But it's not like the Knicks gave up a whole lot. Lopez did well but he's a role player. We can say well "at least his contract is decent" (and that's been like the biggest argument for Lopez) but that really doesn't say much if you really think about it. Calderon everyone knows is pretty much useless for what the Knicks need. Sure the Knicks gave up Grant, but they got back a player that Bulls fans loved in Holiday almost as much as Knicks fans loved Grant AND they got back the Bulls 2nd round pick next season which (if they trade Butler) would be near the top of the 2nd round.

The way I look at it...the Knicks were clearly not going to move the needle with Lopez, Calderon and Grant. With Rose at least they now have a chance to do so (IF Rose can return to some semblance of what he was which, if you listen to that clip I attached, seems possible based on what the Bulls guys were saying). And if it doesn't work out they aren't on the book for him beyond the season and instead could be looking at 2 max salary slots under their cap for the 2017 free agency. I think this was a calculated risk that the Knicks had to take. Only way this wouldn't have been a good idea is anyone thought that the Knicks could have gotten something more for that same package. Could they? i don't see it at all. The Knicks have 2 assets (Porzingis and Anthony) that could have brought anything impactful and they can't trade either of those 2 assets.

[LyricalRico]

Honestly I don't think the trade was bad for NY. Here's some interesting takes from Sports Talk Live in Chicago about the deal that folks may find interesting. These are Bulls "insiders".

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yUhcjuvIf0U[/youtube]

As Wizards fan, I'm a little skeptical of players coming back from injuries (Arenas, cough cough).

Oh I can bet.

But it's not like the Knicks gave up a whole lot. Lopez did well but he's a role player. We can say well "at least his contract is decent" (and that's been like the biggest argument for Lopez) but that really doesn't say much if you really think about it. Calderon everyone knows is pretty much useless for what the Knicks need. Sure the Knicks gave up Grant, but they got back a player that Bulls fans loved in Holiday almost as much as Knicks fans loved Grant AND they got back the Bulls 2nd round pick next season which (if they trade Butler) would be near the top of the 2nd round.

The way I look at it...the Knicks were clearly not going to move the needle with Lopez, Calderon and Grant. With Rose at least they now have a chance to do so (IF Rose can return to some semblance of what he was which, if you listen to that clip I attached, seems possible based on what the Bulls guys were saying). And if it doesn't work out they aren't on the book for him beyond the season and instead could be looking at 2 max salary slots under their cap for the 2017 free agency. I think this was a calculated risk that the Knicks had to take. Only way this wouldn't have been a good idea is anyone thought that the Knicks could have gotten something more for that same package. Could they? i don't see it at all. The Knicks have 2 assets (Porzingis and Anthony) that could have brought anything impactful and they can't trade either of those 2 assets.

Agree for the Knicks. They're not risking that much, and worst case scenario is that Rose is a complete bust and they go into 2017 with a clear (or semi-clear) cap and another lottery pick to pair with Porzingis. The big question IMO is do they use their cap space this summer to sign somebody to a huge longterm deal, thus reducing the impact of Rose's expiring deal?

My knee-jerk prediction after the deal was that they'd max out Dwight Howard as the other big piece of their offseason. But if they could break that up into multiple pieces (like Noah and something else, maybe absorb Splitter+Korver from ATL since they want to have $$$ to keep Horford/Bazemore) then they could have enough in place to really take advantage of a potential bounce-back year for Rose.

[payitforward]

Utah did poorly in that deal. They gave up the most valuable asset in the deal - 12th pick for the least value(oldest player as a rental). Utah does have enough young talent that is developing, so they aren't completely in bad shape. One thing that could have made the move better would have been getting the 44 pick from ATL in the deal. Seems like a great spot to get a draft and stash foreign player.

I think what Indy did was pretty slick - dealing a player like to leave and/or decline for one that fits in with Paul George's window.

George Hill is good and a great fit for Utah. Hill > #12 > Teague

I have to agree -- Hill has certainly been a better player than Teague. The only question is his age. Hill's play declined some last year. But that doesn't mean it would have been better to acquire Teague directly. Both those guys contracts will be expiring.

The real question is why they felt they should trade their pick for one year of Hill. The West is pretty stacked, and it's hard to see them climbing much next year. Wouldn't they be better off w/ a guy they could develop over a longer term?

[tontoz]

It should be noted that Rose played much better after the All-Star break.

[LyricalRico]

I think somebody brought this up on another thread from the perspective of the Wiz getting Kanter, and I found this from last month:

There are trade rumors that Kevin Durant could leave Oklahoma City Thunder but it would still depend on how they will perform against Golden State Warriors. If the Oklahoma beat Warriors or at least give them a run for their money, it is safe to assume Durant will not go anywhere but will expect a lineup improvement. If the Thunder looks for improvement, then Al Horford is a total upgrade for the center position.

Oklahoma City Thunder boast impressive lineup in center positon: Enes Kanter, Nick Collison, Serge Ibaka and Steven Adams. This gives Thunder a good situation because they could offer good prospects in return to Atlanta in exchange for Al Horford. Although the bunch of centers at Thunder made good account of themselves during the series against Spurs, no one is still in the caliber of all-star center Al Horford.

http://www.hofmag.com/nba-trade-rumors-2016-al-horford-kevin-durant-tandem-oklahoma-city-thunder/151502

This would make the Ibaka deal make even more sense, and give them a heckuva lineup even if they had to give up Kanter to do it:

Adams
Horford
Durant
Oladipo
Westbrook

No way KD could leave that squad. The one hiccup could be if KD intends to do a 1+1 and Horford is skeptical of KD/Westbrook staying beyond 2017. Does he still sign a longterm deal with no guarantees beyond the first season? Still, even if both did leave, they'd still have Adams/Horford/Oladipo as a core to attract other 2017 FA's.

[LyricalRico]

Latest on the Spurs:

Adrian Wojnarowski: I’m told that Pau Gasol is a real priority for them. They tried to get him before he signed with Chicago.
– via The Vertical

Adrian Wojnarowski: There’s a strong belief that Manu Ginobili is probably going to play another year.
– via The Vertical

Obviously Gasol would be an upgrade for them over Duncan, but is reloading with size/age the right thing to do? Does Gasol put them past Golden State and Oklahoma City?

[TGW]

Latest on the Spurs:

Adrian Wojnarowski: I’m told that Pau Gasol is a real priority for them. They tried to get him before he signed with Chicago.
– via The Vertical

Adrian Wojnarowski: There’s a strong belief that Manu Ginobili is probably going to play another year.
– via The Vertical

Obviously Gasol would be an upgrade for them over Duncan, but is reloading with size/age the right thing to do? Does Gasol put them past Golden State and Oklahoma City?

Would love to see Duncan come back for them if they sign Gasol. He could be their first big off the bench.

[fishercob]

It should be noted that Rose played much better after the All-Star break.

That does appear to be the case, but I'd qualify it with (a) that's a 21 game sample and (b) he still didn't play well. He mainly shot better, particularly from 3 which was way outside the norm of how he's shot the 3 over his career.

Also noteworthy that he gets to the line less than half as much as he did when he was really good.

[verbal8]

Latest on the Spurs:

Adrian Wojnarowski: I’m told that Pau Gasol is a real priority for them. They tried to get him before he signed with Chicago.
– via The Vertical

Adrian Wojnarowski: There’s a strong belief that Manu Ginobili is probably going to play another year.
– via The Vertical

Obviously Gasol would be an upgrade for them over Duncan, but is reloading with size/age the right thing to do? Does Gasol put them past Golden State and Oklahoma City?

Would love to see Duncan come back for them if they sign Gasol. He could be their first big off the bench.

Duncan opted in:
http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/242454/Tim-Duncan-Exercises-Player-Option-With-Spurs

Probably makes the long shot with Durant slightly longer odds - although they find a way to do it if they can add him.

What I think think this does do is remove San Antonio as a destination for Horford. Someone like Gasol seems like a good match.

[FAH1223]

Gasol would fit well in SA but the question is how much does their defense suffer without Timmy starting or even playing if he retires?

I was impressed with Aldridge's defense this year but Duncan is still a great rim protector on one leg.

[LyricalRico]

Latest on the Spurs:



Obviously Gasol would be an upgrade for them over Duncan, but is reloading with size/age the right thing to do? Does Gasol put them past Golden State and Oklahoma City?

Would love to see Duncan come back for them if they sign Gasol. He could be their first big off the bench.

Duncan opted in:
http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/242454/Tim-Duncan-Exercises-Player-Option-With-Spurs

Probably makes the long shot with Durant slightly longer odds - although they find a way to do it if they can add him.

What I think think this does do is remove San Antonio as a destination for Horford. Someone like Gasol seems like a good match.

Timmy might still not play, though. Heard he could opt-in and still workout some kind of retirement buyout where he still gets some or all of his salary. Sort of like a golden parachute severance package. SA does it out of goodwill, and they can stretch it so it lessens the cap impact.

[keynote]

Noah @ $18M/year? That's a little rich for my blood.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/sports/wp/2016/06/29/joakim-noah-expected-to-sign-with-new-york-knicks-for-18-milllion-a-year/