A lot of Celtics Trash rumors part 3

chakdaddy · Post #341 » by **chakdaddy** » Sat Jul 16, 2016 10:10 pm

the sea duck wrote:
BlackThatch wrote:
the sea duck wrote:
I liked the wheel idea not only for eliminating tanking incentive, but also because it created known trading commodities. Right now when teams trade draft picks, it's like a lottery sometimes where it will fall. With the wheel, they would know exactly which pick they were trading.

Of course, this pays off sometimes in a way that I like (see Brooklyn picks owed to Boston). But overall the quality of trades probably improves if everyone knows with certainty what they are trading for.

The downside is supposed to be that sometimes good teams will get high draft picks, however this would not be any worse than Kevin Durant going to Golden State. If we're ok with that, I don't think we can complain about good teams adding a good rookie.

Yeah but then good teams will be getting good before getting their top pick(s), meaning it's not unfair. It all goes to the merit of their work and organization.

Effectively, the Golden State Warriors won the lottery with the combination of factors needed to add Kevin Durant to what they already had. It is extremely unlikely anything with this impact would happen in The Wheel system. It would be quite rare to have the best team land a Kevin Durant type prospect (and even when they do it would not be the player in his prime). So nothing the Wheel would produce would be this bad.

Celtics just won 48 games and got the 3rd pick. Not the end of the world for the rest of the league (some Celtics fan aren't even optimistic about the outcome). Detroit won 50 games and went to the conference finals in 2003; drafted #2 overall. Wasn't the end of the world. In fact had almost no positive impact.

The Spurs championships were kick started by essentially a good team tanking for one year and going on to become great for two decades, but we were all kind of ok with it. The league didn't shut down because it wasn't fair.

So in The Wheel system, we know good teams will get good (on paper) picks. Some will work out very well, some will not. The League will essentially continue as it has in the past but with better quality trades of known commodities and rebuilding without tanking.

Who the **** was OK with spurs tanking and stealing Duncan????

chakdaddy · Post #342 » by **chakdaddy** » Sat Jul 16, 2016 10:11 pm

hickfromfrenchlick wrote:
mademan wrote:
ermocrate wrote:Jaylen, Thomas and BKN pick, the guy is nuts...

Thats absolutely the minimum asking price for Russ. Dude is a top 5 player in this league and could very easily be the best player in the league next season (so can 3 or other 4 players). I dont think Boston should trade a bunch for him, but I also dont think OKC should ever ever sell him cheap. That guy is wayyy too good.

You get that he's going to be a FA next year, right?

Jaylen, Isiah, BKN '18 = minimum? Nope.

OKC has no leverage, they're going to get Rondo for Crowder type offers.

Post #343 » by **Smitty731** » Sat Jul 16, 2016 10:12 pm

Ok. I am prefacing this with 2 things:

1. Do not overreact and go crazy, because this is all very loose.

2. Because it is very loose, I can not post it on Twitter. Plus, that didn't go great for me last time so....

Two of my sources have confirmed different parts of this and I am putting it together. And a third added a little credence as well. Here goes...

The Celtics are trying to go big. They want both Griffin and Westbrook. They would rather do it with agreements to stay in Boston but are willing to do it without those guarantees. So here is what the basic pieces in and out would be:

Boston gets: Blake Griffin, Paul Pierce and Russell Westbrook.

Boston gives to LAC: Amir Johnson, Tyler Zeller (S&T for 1 guaranteed year at around ~$6.5 million, just enough for salary matching) and 1 BRK pick + another first rounder (LAC pick back maybe?) and/or Jaylen Brown.

Boston gives to OKC: Marcus Smart, Jonas Jerebko, R.J. Hunter, Jordan Mickey, James Young + 1 BRK pick + another 1st Rounder or two (future BOS 1st and/or MEM 1st).

If LAC would rather, Boston will give up Crowder, but would prefer not to.

And they would then fill out their bench with veteran FAs. If Crowder goes in the LAC deal (which would also remove Zeller but include Holland), then Brown stays and Pierce starts with Brown backing him up. The Celtics like the idea of splitting Thomas and Westbrook to start games, but they would play plenty together.

Putting it all together:

We know the Griffin/Westbrook parts. The interesting part I got today from a different source was many of the veteran FAs who remain unsigned are waiting because their agents believe this is happening and they want to be the guys to fill out the Boston roster. Think some familiar names. Maybe some guys who recently wore the green.

OFWGKTA · Post #344 » by **OFWGKTA** » Sat Jul 16, 2016 10:14 pm

OFWGKTA · Post #345 » by **OFWGKTA** » Sat Jul 16, 2016 10:15 pm

Don't trade Brown

rob4748 · Post #346 » by **rob4748** » Sat Jul 16, 2016 10:15 pm

Smitty731 wrote:Ok. I am prefacing this with 2 things:

1. Do not overreact and go crazy, because this is all very loose.

2. Because it is very loose, I can not post it on Twitter. Plus, that didn't go great for me last time so....

Two of my sources have confirmed different parts of this and I am putting it together. And a third added a little credence as well. Here goes...

The Celtics are trying to go big. They want both Griffin and Westbrook. They would rather do it with agreements to stay in Boston but are willing to do it without those guarantees. So here is what the basic pieces in and out would be:

Boston gets: Blake Griffin, Paul Pierce and Russell Westbrook.

Boston gives to LAC: Amir Johnson, Tyler Zeller (S&T for 1 guaranteed year at around ~$6.5 million, just enough for salary matching) and 1 BRK pick + another first rounder (LAC pick back maybe?) and/or Jaylen Brown.

Boston gives to OKC: Marcus Smart, Jonas Jerebko, R.J. Hunter, Jordan Mickey, James Young + 1 BRK pick + another 1st Rounder or two (future BOS 1st and/or MEM 1st).

If LAC would rather, Boston will give up Crowder, but would prefer not to.

And they would then fill out their bench with veteran FAs. If Crowder goes in the LAC deal (which would also remove Zeller but include Holland), then Brown stays and Pierce starts with Brown backing him up. The Celtics like the idea of splitting Thomas and Westbrook to start games, but they would play plenty together.

Putting it all together:

We know the Griffin/Westbrook parts. The interesting part I got today from a different source was many of the veteran FAs who remain unsigned are waiting because their agents believe this is happening and they want to be the guys to fill out the Boston roster. Think some familiar names. Maybe some guys who recently wore the green.

Pretty simple question I have, what do you mean things are "loose?"

ermocrate · Post #347 » by **ermocrate** » Sat Jul 16, 2016 10:16 pm

Captain_Caveman wrote:
winsomme2 wrote:
BfB wrote:
It is more likely than not the team has gotten permission to talk to both Westbrook and Griffin regarding the respective contract related issues they have with each, (ie the purpose of Steve B's past two articles - drawing lines in the sand in public).

If so, both parties have at least agreed to a deal in principle, thus putting it on the players to sign off on the contract requirements.

By negotiating with both parties independently and then spinning the publicity into an either or scenario, they've been able to cause enough confusion to muddle things enough to keep things stable.

Now, they are most likely going to meet with both and essentially pitch them on joining forces on an Eastern power that can contend with the Warriors.

The gambit is that the likelihood of each agreeing to favorable contract terms - option for Griffin only costs 800K after kicker, Westbrook takes a haircut on a 1 year extension with more upfront this year. The chances of this increase when you are pitching them collectively.

Ainge sells the vision, Stevens sells the tactics, Zarren sells the financials - if they buy in both trades will happen almost simultaneously.

**** brilliant...

Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

But what are the reasons that Griffin and Westbrook would agree to pick up options that are well below their market value and prevent them from signing these huge extensions they are eligible for...?

I have the same question. Totally not in their interests, which surely alters our offers significantly.

I think that if you present a great project and they see the consistent possibility to win and build their legacy (that know equals 0 because they have been the 2nd star of the team their entire NBA life losing all they can lose) that will possibly value that more than the 20% difference between renewing now or go to the free agency. Also I don't know if they would find a team better than us that has cap space next summer.

OFWGKTA · Post #348 » by **OFWGKTA** » Sat Jul 16, 2016 10:16 pm

Spoiler:

Like tossing a hot dog down a hallway

KamikazeK · Post #349 » by **KamikazeK** » Sat Jul 16, 2016 10:17 pm

Smitty731 wrote:Ok. I am prefacing this with 2 things:

1. Do not overreact and go crazy, because this is all very loose.

2. Because it is very loose, I can not post it on Twitter. Plus, that didn't go great for me last time so....

Two of my sources have confirmed different parts of this and I am putting it together. And a third added a little credence as well. Here goes...

The Celtics are trying to go big. They want both Griffin and Westbrook. They would rather do it with agreements to stay in Boston but are willing to do it without those guarantees. So here is what the basic pieces in and out would be:

Boston gets: Blake Griffin, Paul Pierce and Russell Westbrook.

Boston gives to LAC: Amir Johnson, Tyler Zeller (S&T for 1 guaranteed year at around ~$6.5 million, just enough for salary matching) and 1 BRK pick + another first rounder (LAC pick back maybe?) and/or Jaylen Brown.

Boston gives to OKC: Marcus Smart, Jonas Jerebko, R.J. Hunter, Jordan Mickey, James Young + 1 BRK pick + another 1st Rounder or two (future BOS 1st and/or MEM 1st).

If LAC would rather, Boston will give up Crowder, but would prefer not to.

And they would then fill out their bench with veteran FAs. If Crowder goes in the LAC deal (which would also remove Zeller but include Holland), then Brown stays and Pierce starts with Brown backing him up. The Celtics like the idea of splitting Thomas and Westbrook to start games, but they would play plenty together.

Putting it all together:

We know the Griffin/Westbrook parts. The interesting part I got today from a different source was many of the veteran FAs who remain unsigned are waiting because their agents believe this is happening and they want to be the guys to fill out the Boston roster. Think some familiar names. Maybe some guys who recently wore the green.

So what would the final roster look like?

Westbrook/IT
Bradley/Rozier
Crowder (or Pierce)/Brown (or someone else?)
Griffin/vet
Horford/vet

something like that I assume. I doubt this goes down, but I think it would be fun if it did.

Durant's Warriors vs. Westbrook's Celtics would be a pretty neat finals storyline.

greenroom31 · Post #350 » by **greenroom31** » Sat Jul 16, 2016 10:17 pm

Smitty731 wrote:Ok. I am prefacing this with 2 things:

1. Do not overreact and go crazy, because this is all very loose.

2. Because it is very loose, I can not post it on Twitter. Plus, that didn't go great for me last time so....

Two of my sources have confirmed different parts of this and I am putting it together. And a third added a little credence as well. Here goes...

The Celtics are trying to go big. They want both Griffin and Westbrook. They would rather do it with agreements to stay in Boston but are willing to do it without those guarantees. So here is what the basic pieces in and out would be:

Boston gets: Blake Griffin, Paul Pierce and Russell Westbrook.

Boston gives to LAC: Amir Johnson, Tyler Zeller (S&T for 1 guaranteed year at around ~$6.5 million, just enough for salary matching) and 1 BRK pick + another first rounder (LAC pick back maybe?) and/or Jaylen Brown.

Boston gives to OKC: Marcus Smart, Jonas Jerebko, R.J. Hunter, Jordan Mickey, James Young + 1 BRK pick + another 1st Rounder or two (future BOS 1st and/or MEM 1st).

If LAC would rather, Boston will give up Crowder, but would prefer not to.

And they would then fill out their bench with veteran FAs. If Crowder goes in the LAC deal (which would also remove Zeller but include Holland), then Brown stays and Pierce starts with Brown backing him up. The Celtics like the idea of splitting Thomas and Westbrook to start games, but they would play plenty together.

Putting it all together:

We know the Griffin/Westbrook parts. The interesting part I got today from a different source was many of the veteran FAs who remain unsigned are waiting because their agents believe this is happening and they want to be the guys to fill out the Boston roster. Think some familiar names. Maybe some guys who recently wore the green.

Thanks for the intel. You da man. However I'm laughing at the idea that you think this board is capable of #1 that you wrote above "Do not overreact and go crazy" heh...

BlackThatch · Post #351 » by **BlackThatch** » Sat Jul 16, 2016 10:17 pm

HOLY **** **** SMITTY YOU'RE A DEITY

Disinformation · Post #352 » by **Disinformation** » Sat Jul 16, 2016 10:18 pm

Smitty731 wrote:Ok. I am prefacing this with 2 things:

1. Do not overreact and go crazy, because this is all very loose.

2. Because it is very loose, I can not post it on Twitter. Plus, that didn't go great for me last time so....

Two of my sources have confirmed different parts of this and I am putting it together. And a third added a little credence as well. Here goes...

The Celtics are trying to go big. They want both Griffin and Westbrook. They would rather do it with agreements to stay in Boston but are willing to do it without those guarantees. So here is what the basic pieces in and out would be:

Boston gets: Blake Griffin, Paul Pierce and Russell Westbrook.

Boston gives to LAC: Amir Johnson, Tyler Zeller (S&T for 1 guaranteed year at around ~$6.5 million, just enough for salary matching) and 1 BRK pick + another first rounder (LAC pick back maybe?) and/or Jaylen Brown.

Boston gives to OKC: Marcus Smart, Jonas Jerebko, R.J. Hunter, Jordan Mickey, James Young + 1 BRK pick + another 1st Rounder or two (future BOS 1st and/or MEM 1st).

If LAC would rather, Boston will give up Crowder, but would prefer not to.

And they would then fill out their bench with veteran FAs. If Crowder goes in the LAC deal (which would also remove Zeller but include Holland), then Brown stays and Pierce starts with Brown backing him up. The Celtics like the idea of splitting Thomas and Westbrook to start games, but they would play plenty together.

Putting it all together:

We know the Griffin/Westbrook parts. The interesting part I got today from a different source was many of the veteran FAs who remain unsigned are waiting because their agents believe this is happening and they want to be the guys to fill out the Boston roster. Think some familiar names. Maybe some guys who recently wore the green.

Awesome post, especially leading with the caveat/warning. Personally, I am going to live by the motto of "keep your feet on the ground and your head in the clouds."

In other words, I'm not afraid to dream...

LarryBirdsFingr · Post #353 » by **LarryBirdsFingr** » Sat Jul 16, 2016 10:18 pm

max215 · Post #354 » by **max215** » Sat Jul 16, 2016 10:18 pm

Smitty731 wrote:Ok. I am prefacing this with 2 things:

1. Do not overreact and go crazy, because this is all very loose.

2. Because it is very loose, I can not post it on Twitter. Plus, that didn't go great for me last time so....

Two of my sources have confirmed different parts of this and I am putting it together. And a third added a little credence as well. Here goes...

The Celtics are trying to go big. They want both Griffin and Westbrook. They would rather do it with agreements to stay in Boston but are willing to do it without those guarantees. So here is what the basic pieces in and out would be:

Boston gets: Blake Griffin, Paul Pierce and Russell Westbrook.

Boston gives to LAC: Amir Johnson, Tyler Zeller (S&T for 1 guaranteed year at around ~$6.5 million, just enough for salary matching) and 1 BRK pick + another first rounder (LAC pick back maybe?) and/or Jaylen Brown.

Boston gives to OKC: Marcus Smart, Jonas Jerebko, R.J. Hunter, Jordan Mickey, James Young + 1 BRK pick + another 1st Rounder or two (future BOS 1st and/or MEM 1st).

If LAC would rather, Boston will give up Crowder, but would prefer not to.

And they would then fill out their bench with veteran FAs. If Crowder goes in the LAC deal (which would also remove Zeller but include Holland), then Brown stays and Pierce starts with Brown backing him up. The Celtics like the idea of splitting Thomas and Westbrook to start games, but they would play plenty together.

Putting it all together:

We know the Griffin/Westbrook parts. The interesting part I got today from a different source was many of the veteran FAs who remain unsigned are waiting because their agents believe this is happening and they want to be the guys to fill out the Boston roster. Think some familiar names. Maybe some guys who recently wore the green.

I know you warned us, BUT I'M OVERREACTING!!!

BlackThatch · Post #355 » by **BlackThatch** » Sat Jul 16, 2016 10:18 pm

I'm literally sweating under the AC and an open window and it's like 60F outside

Post #356 » by **Smitty731** » Sat Jul 16, 2016 10:18 pm

rob4748 wrote:
Pretty simple question I have, what do you mean things are "loose?"

In order to go to Twitter, which will get picked up mainstream, I have to be able to confirm through multiple independent sources who are rock solid. And it can't be second or third hand. I have to get it from people who are 100% in the know.

The guys I have heard from are:

1. First hand knowledge
2 - 4. Second hand knowledge

Does that make sense? Plus, at this point I could end up outing a source I don't want to out. That would mean a sure loss of a source for me.

VeryMuchWoke · Post #357 » by **VeryMuchWoke** » Sat Jul 16, 2016 10:19 pm

If either of those guys leave after 1 year, we are gutted, and I don't think that's even enough to beat GSW. I'd definitely rather just see what we can add via the draft. Starting Pierce would be a disaster.

Even if they have handshake agreements to resign, we could get screwed if they remove max contracts from the CBA. Too much risk in this for my liking.

sam_I_am · Post #358 » by **sam_I_am** » Sat Jul 16, 2016 10:20 pm

Gerald Wallace? David Lee? JCraw? Ray Allen?

Disinformation · Post #359 » by **Disinformation** » Sat Jul 16, 2016 10:20 pm

Also, if this goes down without Brown included, I will be in 7th heaven. My dream of a Pierce-mentoring-Brown scenario will come true.

If it goes down but does include Brown, I'll still be in 6.999th Heaven.

Green89 · Post #360 » by **Green89** » Sat Jul 16, 2016 10:20 pm

Bradon Bass is still out there, waiting. I'd rather trade Brown than Crowder.