Political Roundtable Part IX

[TGW]

The FBI Director testified that Gucifer was lying, he's got nothing.

The Russians are trying to help Trump.

The FBI Director said it, so it must be true.

[montestewart]

The FBI Director testified that Gucifer was lying, he's got nothing.

The Russians are trying to help Trump.

The FBI Director said it, so it must be true.

Yeah, I don't think he's widely viewed as credible right now, as opposed to years past, when the FBI Director's word was bond.

[nate33]

Kaine has a somewhat checkered history of ethics violations and skirting the campaign finance rules. Trump will have fodder to paint the Clinton/Kaine ticket as the corruption ticket.

[closg00]

The FBI Director testified that Gucifer was lying, he's got nothing.

The Russians are trying to help Trump.

The FBI Director said it, so it must be true.

Yeah, I don't think he's widely viewed as credible right now, as opposed to years past, when the FBI Director's word was bond.

Not credible according to who?

[closg00]

Kaine has a somewhat checkered history of ethics violations and skirting the campaign finance rules. Trump will have fodder to paint the Clinton/Kaine ticket as the corruption ticket.

Been-there done that, VA has different gift laws and no exchange of gifts for favors was prosecuted unlike with The Bob...and he might get-off.
Considering all of the pending lawsuits against Trump and they way he stiffs small businesses, I'm shocked that he puts himself on a pedestal.

[nate33]

Kaine has a somewhat checkered history of ethics violations and skirting the campaign finance rules. Trump will have fodder to paint the Clinton/Kaine ticket as the corruption ticket.

Been-there done that, VA has different gift laws and no exchange of gifts for favors was prosecuted unlike with The Bob...and he might get-off.
Considering all of the pending lawsuits against Trump and they way he stiffs small businesses, I'm shocked that he puts himself on a pedestal.

I'm not trying to argue the merits of the accusation. I'm just saying that on this front, the Kaine pick plays into Trump's hands. Trump is already trying to define himself as the outsider who is trying to shake up the system of insider elites who are above the law. Hillary Clinton is extremely vulnerable to that attack, and Kaine isn't exactly a great shield.

[JWizmentality]

http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/21/us/miami-officer-involved-shooting/

Wow....what a load of garbage. Right, we were trying to shoot the white guy not the black guy.

[AFM]

http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/21/us/miami-officer-involved-shooting/

Wow....what a load of garbage. Right, we were trying to shoot the white guy not the black guy.

I hate when that happens.

[dckingsfan]

http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/21/us/miami-officer-involved-shooting/

Wow....what a load of garbage. Right, we were trying to shoot the white guy not the black guy.

I guess it works that we will assume that all law enforcement officers are guilty until proven innocent. Let's not wait until we get all the facts and then make a decision.

Let's assume that police and their families aren't scared out there:
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/24/us/police-ridealongs.html?_r=0

Let's make the assumption that this movement won't have unintended consequences that increase violence against blacks.

To me, a load of garbage is not weighing all the facts first...

[Wizardspride]

http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/21/us/miami-officer-involved-shooting/

Wow....what a load of garbage. Right, we were trying to shoot the white guy not the black guy.

I guess it works that we will assume that all law enforcement officers are guilty until proven innocent. Let's not wait until we get all the facts and then make a decision.

Let's assume that police and their families aren't scared out there:
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/24/us/police-ridealongs.html?_r=0

Let's make the assumption that this movement won't have unintended consequences that increase violence against blacks.

To me, a load of garbage is not weighing all the facts first...

Infer what you will.

http://www.miaminewtimes.com/news/north-miami-cop-suspended-for-giving-conflicting-statements-in-charles-kinsey-shooting-8621774

North Miami Cop Suspended for Giving "Conflicting" Statements in Charles Kinsey Shooting


Police also announced that another, high-ranking officer, Commander Emile Hollant, had been suspended without pay after he gave "conflicting" statements to investigators about the shooting.

The city declined to say specifically what statements Hollant had made, citing the information as part of an "ongoing investigation."

"This will not be tolerated," Spring said of Hollant's changing testimony.

[nate33]

Infer what you will.

http://www.miaminewtimes.com/news/north-miami-cop-suspended-for-giving-conflicting-statements-in-charles-kinsey-shooting-8621774

North Miami Cop Suspended for Giving "Conflicting" Statements in Charles Kinsey Shooting


Police also announced that another, high-ranking officer, Commander Emile Hollant, had been suspended without pay after he gave "conflicting" statements to investigators about the shooting.

The city declined to say specifically what statements Hollant had made, citing the information as part of an "ongoing investigation."

"This will not be tolerated," Spring said of Hollant's changing testimony.

"The City of North Miami shall not and will not tolerate any bad behavior from our police officers," Bien-Aime said. "I want, and hope, that justice will be served. In North Miami, the relationship between the police and community has always been great, and we cannot let one incident destroy that relationship."

Galvin then bit into Hollant, the commander who has been suspended.

"There will not be any coverups in the City of North Miami," Galvin said. "The police officer who you've just heard named who has been put on leave totally violated his trust from the public to 'protect and serve.' By giving misinformation, he not only jeopardized the life of Mr. Kinsey and his client, but he jeopardized the life of every police officer who serves this city. We will not tolerate those types of behavior."

As I said before, this seemed to be more of an accident than any racial malice on behalf of the police department. The shooter really screwed up. He probably shouldn't have shot in the first place, and he certainly shouldn't have been so incompetent, than when he shot, he hit the wrong man.

Fortunately, he has been suspended without pay, as has his commander. I think they will get to the bottom of this one and assign blame accordingly. But the bottom line here is that the police officer didn't appear to be doing something criminal (like willfully harming a citizen out of malice). Rather, he was incompetent and will probably end up losing his job; as he should.

[Wizardspride]

Infer what you will.

http://www.miaminewtimes.com/news/north-miami-cop-suspended-for-giving-conflicting-statements-in-charles-kinsey-shooting-8621774

North Miami Cop Suspended for Giving "Conflicting" Statements in Charles Kinsey Shooting


Police also announced that another, high-ranking officer, Commander Emile Hollant, had been suspended without pay after he gave "conflicting" statements to investigators about the shooting.

The city declined to say specifically what statements Hollant had made, citing the information as part of an "ongoing investigation."

"This will not be tolerated," Spring said of Hollant's changing testimony.

"The City of North Miami shall not and will not tolerate any bad behavior from our police officers," Bien-Aime said. "I want, and hope, that justice will be served. In North Miami, the relationship between the police and community has always been great, and we cannot let one incident destroy that relationship."

Galvin then bit into Hollant, the commander who has been suspended.

"There will not be any coverups in the City of North Miami," Galvin said. "The police officer who you've just heard named who has been put on leave totally violated his trust from the public to 'protect and serve.' By giving misinformation, he not only jeopardized the life of Mr. Kinsey and his client, but he jeopardized the life of every police officer who serves this city. We will not tolerate those types of behavior."

As I said before, this seemed to be more of an accident than any racial malice on behalf of the police department. The shooter really screwed up. He probably shouldn't have shot in the first place, and he certainly shouldn't have been so incompetent, than when he shot, he hit the wrong man.

Fortunately, he has been suspended without pay, as has his commander. I think they will get to the bottom of this one and assign blame accordingly. But the bottom line here is that the police officer didn't appear to be doing something criminal (like willfully harming a citizen out of malice). Rather, he was incompetent and will probably end up losing his job; as he should.

Yeah, I agree with you Nate.

This just seems to be a tragic screw up...and apparently, the officer is just trying to cover his butt.

[JWizmentality]

Infer what you will.

http://www.miaminewtimes.com/news/north-miami-cop-suspended-for-giving-conflicting-statements-in-charles-kinsey-shooting-8621774

As I said before, this seemed to be more of an accident than any racial malice on behalf of the police department. The shooter really screwed up. He probably shouldn't have shot in the first place, and he certainly shouldn't have been so incompetent, than when he shot, he hit the wrong man.

Fortunately, he has been suspended without pay, as has his commander. I think they will get to the bottom of this one and assign blame accordingly. But the bottom line here is that the police officer didn't appear to be doing something criminal (like willfully harming a citizen out of malice). Rather, he was incompetent and will probably end up losing his job; as he should.

Yeah, I agree with you Nate.

This just seems to be a tragic screw up...and apparently, the officer is just trying to cover his butt.

Exactly, this is part of the reason people are frustrated. The ridiculous cover up.

[Wizardspride]

As I said before, this seemed to be more of an accident than any racial malice on behalf of the police department. The shooter really screwed up. He probably shouldn't have shot in the first place, and he certainly shouldn't have been so incompetent, than when he shot, he hit the wrong man.

Fortunately, he has been suspended without pay, as has his commander. I think they will get to the bottom of this one and assign blame accordingly. But the bottom line here is that the police officer didn't appear to be doing something criminal (like willfully harming a citizen out of malice). Rather, he was incompetent and will probably end up losing his job; as he should.

Yeah, I agree with you Nate.

This just seems to be a tragic screw up...and apparently, the officer is just trying to cover his butt.

Exactly, this is part of the reason people are frustrated. The ridiculous cover up.

Yeah, that's my biggest gripe with law enforcement.

It's not that I think they're all racist/crooked etc etc....but when you have other (many) officers consistently covering up/ignoring misdeeds.....

[nuposse04]

I've always wondered why cops cannot be sued for gross incompetence. Doctors pay massive premiums in protecting their asses against the chance they **** up. If states had to pony up for employing, and deploying a bunch of inadequate incompetent cops I'm sure they would actually try to pump out a more competent LEO into the public space... and hopefully ones that are not as trigger happy. This is more then likely an issue with the Police unions. I bet their victim complex knows no bounds.

[nate33]

Yeah, I agree with you Nate.

This just seems to be a tragic screw up...and apparently, the officer is just trying to cover his butt.

Exactly, this is part of the reason people are frustrated. The ridiculous cover up.

Yeah, that's my biggest gripe with law enforcement.

It's not that I think they're all racist/crooked etc etc....but when you have other (many) officers consistently covering up/ignoring misdeeds.....

Yes, this is frustrating, but it's also somewhat understandable. The police are a very tight-knit fraternity. They have to depend upon each other and trust each other in life-or-death situations. Their loyalty to each other is going to be much stronger than in other occupations. It goes with the territory.

It's almost like the Marines: unit, core, God, country.

[nate33]

Syrian ‘Refugee’ Machetes Pregnant Woman To Death, Injures Two More In Germany

[keynote]

Yes, this is frustrating, but it's also somewhat understandable. The police are a very tight-knit fraternity. They have to depend upon each other and trust each other in life-or-death situations. Their loyalty to each other is going to be much stronger than in other occupations. It goes with the territory.

I agree that it's how it is, but I disagree that it's understandable, let alone justifiable. Yes, police have to depend on each other and trust each other. So, they *should* be hyper-vigilant about expelling any "frat brother" who is willing to stretch the truth, take shortcuts, abuse their authority, etc. -- because subpar and/or corrupt police work makes the rest of the police force's job more difficult and more dangerous.

If I'm a cop working a beat, I wouldn't want to work with a partner who shows a propensity for escalating situations without provocation, because they increase the odds that I'm caught in a violent situation. I wouldn't want a colleague whose shoddy work undermines the public's trust in *my* work. I wouldn't want to serve alongside officers who lie to cover up their own mistakes, because their lies frustrate the ability of the department to function as a meritocracy.

To use a more current example: I wouldn't want to serve alongside an officer who'd tell a handcuffed Black woman in the back of a squad car that White people's fear of Black people is justified because of Black people's "violent tendencies," because that officer is more likely to make bad, unsafe decisions in the field. And, if that officer were to get promoted, he'd propagate his world view to others; he'd adopt protocols and policies to codify those views; and he'd train officers to act accordingly. He'd manage a police department that is distrustful and afraid of the citizens they're charged to protect -- and they'd receive the same distrust and fear in kind from those citizens in response. An honest, hardworking, properly-motivated police officer should *not* want that outcome.

Instead, police departments have allowed (and, arguably, encouraged) a culture where officers stick up for and defend even the bad actors in their midst. Their misplaced loyalties do the public a disservice, to be sure. But it's also self-defeating, to the extent that it makes their jobs harder and more dangerous.

[keynote]

It's almost like the Marines: unit, core, God, country.

And another thing: police are *not* soldiers. They should not view themselves as such. They have a very different mission, and should have a very different culture.

The militarization of police culture is a bug, not a feature.

[keynote]

Wow. WikiLeaks latest email dump includes proof that a Politico reporter sent a pre-publication story to the DNC so they can coordinate a response with Hillary before publication. He gave the story to the DNC before he even gave it to his own editors. Hopefully this will be front page news tomorrow. I won't hold my breath though.

Again, a story about the leaks was on the front page of WaPo earlier this afternoon (it got nudged down the page by the VP announcement, but it's still there). I'm sure that all sorts of media outlets will have follow up stories in the days to come.

Fox News' (brilliant) business model has been great for ratings, but it's also had the unfortunate side effect of tainting many people's impression of *all* media outlets -- ones with a decided editorial slant, and those with a fairly clear and honorable demarcation between the editorial and reporting staff.

The DNC leaks have been front page news on major newspapers, and dominated the Sunday morning TV show news cycle. The media outlets are doing their job: reporters are uncovering out more details and getting responses from all camps involved; analysts and pundits are offering their opinion.

In other words: if popper had held his/her breath until the "MSM" covered this story, he/she would've been breathing easy for quite some time by now.