PG Thread: Only Reason To Watch This Year Is KP6

[Bill Pidto]

You guys are stressing me out

[GONYK]

Melo should be taking advantage if the D is playing him 1-on-1

Not in the early stages of the game. He is going to get plenty of 1 on 1 opportunities throughout the course of the game, he doesn't need to be going into the post in the 1st quarter. They need to establish a flow as a unit, move the ball, let everybody get a touch, run some motion screens, force the defense to shift around and chase you for a little bit. Try to get his shooters some shots and help them establish a rhythm, that way when he does go into Iso and has opportunities to kick it out to a shooter if the double team comes, those guys will have some type of rhythm already. I want to see them open up the game and get everybody involved, the game will slow down eventually and he will have his 1 on 1 opportunities, he needs to trust that and let it comes to him, don't go looking for it in the opening quarter. He can still get his shots by running some 1/3 or 3/1 pick and roll action, 3/5 or 5/3 pick and roll action and trying to help everybody else find their flow. It will only make it easier on him for when he does get his Iso opportunities.

Sure, but if he catches and turns and faces the basket, and no double comes, he should be taking advantage. He's still one of the best scorers in the game. He shouldn't be turning down matchup advantages.

[Rotten Apple]

Noah will add another facilitator to the line up and that will make things very interesting. It will pull KP away from the basket because he's not good the closer he is to the basket and open up lanes for Rose. Lee plays his role well. Melo can dictate how he he picks his spots. Last year he was our primary facilitator this year he should focus on finishing what Rose/Noah/Jennings create for him.

[Johnny Firpo]

The defense will/would look a lot different with Noah. KP looked amazing, even more fluid/quicker than last season, no bulky physique which I loved, and they didn't try to feature him down low just for the sake of it. Let him be the perimeter player on offense, who works from outside/in, and on defense, let him roam and use his quickness/length. He doesn't need to "bang", and shouldn't. That's not whats will make him great.

[HEZI]

Melo should be taking advantage if the D is playing him 1-on-1

Not in the early stages of the game. He is going to get plenty of 1 on 1 opportunities throughout the course of the game, he doesn't need to be going into the post in the 1st quarter. They need to establish a flow as a unit, move the ball, let everybody get a touch, run some motion screens, force the defense to shift around and chase you for a little bit. Try to get his shooters some shots and help them establish a rhythm, that way when he does go into Iso and has opportunities to kick it out to a shooter if the double team comes, those guys will have some type of rhythm already. I want to see them open up the game and get everybody involved, the game will slow down eventually and he will have his 1 on 1 opportunities, he needs to trust that and let it comes to him, don't go looking for it in the opening quarter. He can still get his shots by running some 1/3 or 3/1 pick and roll action, 3/5 or 5/3 pick and roll action and trying to help everybody else find their flow. It will only make it easier on him for when he does get his Iso opportunities.

Sure, but if he catches and turns and faces the basket, and no double comes, he should be taking advantage. He's still one of the best scorers in the game. He shouldn't be turning down matchup advantages.

Sometimes he actually should. As long as there is motion away from the ball and guys are not just standing around and watching him, he will have other options available. There will be a cutter, a shooter, someone on the low block, maybe an off ball screen forces a big man to switch on Derrick Rose, will Carmelo make that read and swing the ball around to Rose? That would be the bigger advantage IMO. Just using little examples of options that will become available to him, he doesn't always have to take his man 1 on 1 even if he is put into that position. Great players sacrifice and turn down good opportunities for greater opportunities, Melo will need to do just that if the Knicks want to go far.

[Knicks_Fan2]

Melo should be taking advantage if the D is playing him 1-on-1

I agree though I would prefer him to make his move quickly as opposed to holding the ball for 5-10 seconds making his move to score.

Like how KP held the ball for 6 or 7 seconds on his iso against Capela that everyone went crazy over?

Melo made his moves he just didn't convert if he made the shots people would still cry they just don't want him to shoot anymore I guess

Don't need Porzingis to hold the ball for 6-7 seconds either. If these things happen once in awhile, obviously it's not a problem but cannot be a consistent staple of a highly efficient offense.

[K_ick_God]

Noah will add another facilitator to the line up and that will make things very interesting. It will pull KP away from the basket because he's not good the closer he is to the basket and open up lanes for Rose. Lee plays his role well. Melo can dictate how he he picks his spots. Last year he was our primary facilitator this year he should focus on finishing what Rose/Noah/Jennings create for him.

Basically the Knicks are dependent on two people the most: Hornacek and Noah. Horn must figure out how to blend Rose and Melo, while letting KP grow, and figure out how those 3 will play. And he must figure out how to get a defensive identity that works & sticks.

Horn must be obsessive and dedicated and hold a tight leash (I'm basically agnostic about that but see some not-so-encouraging signs so far, I see a little of Mike D'Antoni there).

Noah must pull everybody together and be the coach on the floor. And he must also take a huge role in the D. Obviously he has to be healthy to do that. I believe he's a winner.

[Rotten Apple]

Noah will add another facilitator to the line up and that will make things very interesting. It will pull KP away from the basket because he's not good the closer he is to the basket and open up lanes for Rose. Lee plays his role well. Melo can dictate how he he picks his spots. Last year he was our primary facilitator this year he should focus on finishing what Rose/Noah/Jennings create for him.

Basically the Knicks are dependent on two people the most: Hornacek and Noah. Horn must figure out how to blend Rose and Melo, while letting KP grow, and figure out how those 3 will play. And he must figure out how to get a defensive identity that works & sticks.

Horn must be obsessive and dedicated and hold a tight leash (I'm basically agnostic about that but see some not-so-encouraging signs so far, I see a little of Mike D'Antoni there).

Noah must pull everybody together and be the coach on the floor. And he must also take a huge role in the D. Obviously he has to be healthy to do that. I believe he's a winner.

I used a Golden State analogy and it really makes sense

If we put Rose in the Curry role(not shooting) but working him off screens and hand offs attacking and finishing or attacking and finding shooters then put Melo in the Klay role, long range sniper making space for Rose to operate the paint as Melo shoots close to 50% on catch and shoot opportunities which is his highest of any FGA aside from wide open lay ups/dunks. Then we put KP in the Durant role, long lanky outside threat with the ability to dunk over anyone due to length he's simply a match up nightmare and Noah as our Draymond, the glue guy who brings it all together. We can have a really dangerous group. Not as deadly offensively as the Warriors but our 4 in those roles would thrive. And our roles players would benefit as well.

[HEZI]

Noah will add another facilitator to the line up and that will make things very interesting. It will pull KP away from the basket because he's not good the closer he is to the basket and open up lanes for Rose. Lee plays his role well. Melo can dictate how he he picks his spots. Last year he was our primary facilitator this year he should focus on finishing what Rose/Noah/Jennings create for him.

Basically the Knicks are dependent on two people the most: Hornacek and Noah. Horn must figure out how to blend Rose and Melo, while letting KP grow, and figure out how those 3 will play. And he must figure out how to get a defensive identity that works & sticks.

Horn must be obsessive and dedicated and hold a tight leash (I'm basically agnostic about that but see some not-so-encouraging signs so far, I see a little of Mike D'Antoni there).

Noah must pull everybody together and be the coach on the floor. And he must also take a huge role in the D. Obviously he has to be healthy to do that. I believe he's a winner.

I used a Golden State analogy and it really makes sense

If we put Rose in the Curry role(not shooting) but working him off screens and hand offs attacking and finishing or attacking and finding shooters then put Melo in the Klay role, long range sniper making space for Rose to operate the paint as Melo shoots close to 50% on catch and shoot opportunities which is his highest of any FGA aside from wide open lay ups/dunks. Then we put KP in the Durant role, long lanky outside threat with the ability to dunk over anyone due to length he's simply a match up nightmare and Noah as our Draymond, the glue guy who brings it all together. We can have a really dangerous group. Not as deadly offensively as the Warriors but our 4 in those roles would thrive. And our roles players would benefit as well.

You can't put Melo in the Klay role because Klay is the best since Rip Hamilton at juking defenders off the ball and coming off curls. The guy is one of the best conditioned athletes in the sport and he wears guys out with constant movement and running and dancing around them.

That's going to be Courtney Lee's role anyways, even though he wont be as effective as Klay but he will be used in a similar fashion. However, I do agree that Melo should be put in more catch and shoot opportunities so that's why I would look to run a lot of 1/3 pick and pops between him and Rose.

[thebuzzardman]

I wouldn't mind putting the Knicks in the Phoenix Suns under Hornacek mode, only

Melo is one Morris
KP is Frye
Rose is Bledsoe
Jennings is Dragic
Noah is whoever they rolled out at C, besides Frye at times

I figure if Hornacek got that group to be competitive, and I know the guards were no slouches there at all,but you figure the talent level the Knicks have, even if you want to imagine Bledsoe/Dragic/Green > Rose/CLee/Jennings, then at least KP/Melo/Noah >> Frye/Morris/Len/Plumlee

[JohnWillow]

How many times did KP pass the ball on Tuesday? I'll wait

Why you hate so much? I have seen you in the last 10 pages writing a hate comments towards KP because KP ISO (How many ISO did he did in the game? Max 3 there was), but Melo ISO alone gave you in the first quarter TWO offensive fouls (not saying that he does not need to do it, but I would love to see the ball movement like they did in first quarter when Rose drove to the basket and got on him 3 defenders, and he found C-Lee and passed a great pass to him from the three point line with no defender on him, he missed, but that is what I would like to see the Knicks do, play team bball) And btw just rewatched the first quarter KP got the ball in his hand 8 times only and passed it 6 times... isn't that ok? You need to be happy about that KP and Melo is in NY...

[Rotten Apple]

How many times did KP pass the ball on Tuesday? I'll wait

Why you hate so much? I have seen you in the last 10 pages writing a hate comments towards KP because KP ISO (How many ISO did he did in the game? Max 3 there was), but Melo ISO alone gave you in the first quarter TWO offensive fouls (not saying that he does not need to do it, but I would love to see the ball movement like they did in first quarter when Rose drove to the basket and got on him 3 defenders, and he found C-Lee and passed a great pass to him from the three point line with no defender on him, he missed, but that is what I would like to see the Knicks do, play team bball) And btw just rewatched the first quarter KP got the ball in his hand 8 times only and passed it 6 times... isn't that ok? You need to be happy about that KP and Melo is in NY...

So it's hating when it's said about KP? But when it's about Melo it's the opposite. Good to know.

As for ball movement, agreed

As for KP and Melo being in NY I am happy I can call out KP for leaving his man open and slowing the offense down if I want. Guys do it to Melo so I don't see the problem if it's true. Also did you really count the passes? good job, good effort

[Rotten Apple]

Basically the Knicks are dependent on two people the most: Hornacek and Noah. Horn must figure out how to blend Rose and Melo, while letting KP grow, and figure out how those 3 will play. And he must figure out how to get a defensive identity that works & sticks.

Horn must be obsessive and dedicated and hold a tight leash (I'm basically agnostic about that but see some not-so-encouraging signs so far, I see a little of Mike D'Antoni there).

Noah must pull everybody together and be the coach on the floor. And he must also take a huge role in the D. Obviously he has to be healthy to do that. I believe he's a winner.

I used a Golden State analogy and it really makes sense

If we put Rose in the Curry role(not shooting) but working him off screens and hand offs attacking and finishing or attacking and finding shooters then put Melo in the Klay role, long range sniper making space for Rose to operate the paint as Melo shoots close to 50% on catch and shoot opportunities which is his highest of any FGA aside from wide open lay ups/dunks. Then we put KP in the Durant role, long lanky outside threat with the ability to dunk over anyone due to length he's simply a match up nightmare and Noah as our Draymond, the glue guy who brings it all together. We can have a really dangerous group. Not as deadly offensively as the Warriors but our 4 in those roles would thrive. And our roles players would benefit as well.

You can't put Melo in the Klay role because Klay is the best since Rip Hamilton at juking defenders off the ball and coming off curls. The guy is one of the best conditioned athletes in the sport and he wears guys out with constant movement and running and dancing around them.

That's going to be Courtney Lee's role anyways, even though he wont be as effective as Klay but he will be used in a similar fashion. However, I do agree that Melo should be put in more catch and shoot opportunities so that's why I would look to run a lot of 1/3 pick and pops between him and Rose.

Roles=/= play styles

Klay and Melo are obviously different in many ways but my point was Melos catch and shoot is off the charts like if all he did was catch and shoot he'd be one of the most efficient shooters in the league probably league history. I'll find the data later but anyway I'm saying the role would similar to his Olympic role where we mix in post ups and isos on the secondary break

Example

Noah rebound
Outlet to Rose
Rose attacks nothing is there
Pass out to Lee, no shot available
Kick to KP trailing the play, no shot
Melo hits pinch post on the weak side
Melo takes the one on one opportunity against an unbalance defense

You can mix up that last part by having KP hit Melo and they go to a 2 man game and if nothing is there we can hit Noah in the high post and run Rose backdoor for a lay up. With KP, Melo and Lee spacing the court there would be no help and Noah's skilled passing would give Rose a timely pass for the finish.

There's so much we can do instead of the old #1 option, # 2 option BS that's my whole argument and that's even what Phil wants. The ball will find the best shot and that's why he wants the system in place but all 5 guys have to buy in to that.

[Rotten Apple]

Be clear unless Melo or KP need a touch I never want to walk the ball down the court and just one of them a post up or ISO. They are both much better when someone creates something for them.

That's on Hornacek however, he has to make this all work

[2010]

If Chasson Candle wins the 3rd string PG spot, then the battle for 15th man comes down to Plumlee vs. Amundson at 3rd string C. And I prefer Plumlee due to his wreckless energy, athleticism, and potential to injure opponents

[islanders11040]

How many times did KP pass the ball on Tuesday? I'll wait

KP had 8 field goals. 6 of them were off assists, 1 was a put back, 1 was a iso. Melo had 4 field goals. 3 off iso and 1 assisted (and plenty of iso misses). So idk what you are implying with this statement.

[HEZI]

I used a Golden State analogy and it really makes sense

If we put Rose in the Curry role(not shooting) but working him off screens and hand offs attacking and finishing or attacking and finding shooters then put Melo in the Klay role, long range sniper making space for Rose to operate the paint as Melo shoots close to 50% on catch and shoot opportunities which is his highest of any FGA aside from wide open lay ups/dunks. Then we put KP in the Durant role, long lanky outside threat with the ability to dunk over anyone due to length he's simply a match up nightmare and Noah as our Draymond, the glue guy who brings it all together. We can have a really dangerous group. Not as deadly offensively as the Warriors but our 4 in those roles would thrive. And our roles players would benefit as well.

You can't put Melo in the Klay role because Klay is the best since Rip Hamilton at juking defenders off the ball and coming off curls. The guy is one of the best conditioned athletes in the sport and he wears guys out with constant movement and running and dancing around them.

That's going to be Courtney Lee's role anyways, even though he wont be as effective as Klay but he will be used in a similar fashion. However, I do agree that Melo should be put in more catch and shoot opportunities so that's why I would look to run a lot of 1/3 pick and pops between him and Rose.

Roles=/= play styles

Klay and Melo are obviously different in many ways but my point was Melos catch and shoot is off the charts like if all he did was catch and shoot he'd be one of the most efficient shooters in the league probably league history. I'll find the data later but anyway I'm saying the role would similar to his Olympic role where we mix in post ups and isos on the secondary break

Example

Noah rebound
Outlet to Rose
Rose attacks nothing is there
Pass out to Lee, no shot available
Kick to KP trailing the play, no shot
Melo hits pinch post on the weak side
Melo takes the one on one opportunity against an unbalance defense

You can mix up that last part by having KP hit Melo and they go to a 2 man game and if nothing is there we can hit Noah in the high post and run Rose backdoor for a lay up. With KP, Melo and Lee spacing the court there would be no help and Noah's skilled passing would give Rose a timely pass for the finish.

There's so much we can do instead of the old #1 option, # 2 option BS that's my whole argument and that's even what Phil wants. The ball will find the best shot and that's why he wants the system in place but all 5 guys have to buy in to that.

Yup that's what I'm hoping to see. Melo doesn't have to work as hard as he did in the past in order to get shots, he has the pieces around him now where he can rely more on catch and shoot plays. That's why I want to see less Iso Melo because Rose and Noah will without a doubt find ways to get him the ball unlike anybody he's ever played with before (not including the Olympics). The game will open up for him and he doesn't have to look to force anything. I'm sure there will be times where guys are cold or the defense is just that tough that they will look to Melo to create something out of nothing, but often times he just needs to let it come to him and it will.

[Capn'O]

If Chasson Candle wins the 3rd string PG spot, then the battle for 15th man comes down to Plumlee vs. Amundson at 3rd string C. And I prefer Plumlee due to his wreckless energy, athleticism, and potential to injure opponents

That's crazy! Amundson has the goon thing going plus experience with the league and group. Amundson >>>>> Plumlee.

Spoiler:

I liked Plumlee's goon style too. Just trying to make waves. Long time til' next game.

[NYKnicksTAPE]

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for reference, we had a pace of 95.8 last season which was 24th in the NBA

[CJackson]

If Chasson Candle wins the 3rd string PG spot, then the battle for 15th man comes down to Plumlee vs. Amundson at 3rd string C. And I prefer Plumlee due to his wreckless energy, athleticism, and potential to injure opponents

That's crazy! Amundson has the goon thing going plus experience with the league and group. Amundson >>>>> Plumlee.

Spoiler:

I liked Plumlee's goon style too. Just trying to make waves. Long time til' next game.

Just install one of these in your back yard. So much easier than confrontations on a message board