Odd Man Out??? - Hunter Waived; Young Stays

Celts17Pride · Post #181 » by **Celts17Pride** » Sat Oct 22, 2016 7:33 pm

Jackson had an excellent preseason, he is locked up cheap for 4 years and he will be spending a lot of time in the D League. Near perfect 3rd point guard. He isn't going anywhere.

Post #182 » by **Parliament10** » Sat Oct 22, 2016 8:30 pm

Read on Twitter

Captain_Caveman · Post #183 » by **Captain_Caveman** » Sat Oct 22, 2016 8:39 pm

Since we already knew that Young was a bust, and both journeyman slob Gerald Green and late 2nd rounder Jackson appear safe, the fact that this is even a question assures me that Hunter is a bust also.

Remember all the love Ainge got for incrementally growing his treasure trove of lesser assets? With his near total failure to consolidate them, that's not looking to be as genius as he was getting credit for.

Sullinger and Turner out for nothing in return, Bentil cut, Young and Hunter likely washouts, forced to draft and stash with two 1st rounders and essentially with a 2nd rounder in Nader as well.

Captain_Caveman · Post #184 » by **Captain_Caveman** » Sat Oct 22, 2016 8:40 pm

Parliament10 wrote:

Read on Twitter

This was a given, no?

Necessary to get him to Maine?

Post #185 » by **Parliament10** » Sat Oct 22, 2016 8:46 pm

Captain_Caveman wrote:
Parliament10 wrote:

Read on Twitter

This was a given, no?

Necessary to get him to Maine?

Read on Twitter

http://www.masslive.com/celtics/index.ssf/2016/10/boston_celtics_roster_moves_ry.html

Kelly spent the preseason with the Atlanta Hawks, but was waived earlier this week. Given the roster crunch in Boston, it's possible the Celtics signed the stretch power forward with the idea of directing him to their D-League affiliate, the Maine Red Claws. Because second-round draft pick Ben Bentil will likely explore other options after he was waived, the Celtics still have one affiliate player spot open in Maine.

Right Caveman.

We can only send 4 Affiliates to the Maine Red Claws.
All this is going to change for next year, with the Two-Way Contracts.

nowyouknow · Post #186 » by **nowyouknow** » Sat Oct 22, 2016 8:48 pm

Correct.

Really only one first rounder will have been sacrificed on the altar of having too many players. We will see soon enough if thats Young or Hunter.

Will anyone care that Young or Hunter was cut if Ainge finds an all star or a starter out of the Rozier, Mickey, Jackson, Yabusele, or Zizic picks?

The more swings the more chances you have to make contact. We have seen Ainge miss on some picks... but I generally like his chances.

Cutting prospects who other teams will likely be excited to sign is a problem I would classify under good problems to have.

Sullinger lazied his way out of town.

Smog · Post #187 » by **Smog** » Sat Oct 22, 2016 10:02 pm

Captain_Caveman wrote:Since we already knew that Young was a bust, and both journeyman slob Gerald Green and late 2nd rounder Jackson appear safe, the fact that this is even a question assures me that Hunter is a bust also.

Remember all the love Ainge got for incrementally growing his treasure trove of lesser assets? With his near total failure to consolidate them, that's not looking to be as genius as he was getting credit for.

Sullinger and Turner out for nothing in return, Bentil cut, Young and Hunter likely washouts, forced to draft and stash with two 1st rounders and essentially with a 2nd rounder in Nader as well.

You act like Ainge incrementally hoarded assets in lieu of some other obvious strategy. All he did was squeeze all the value he could get out of an old roster. The only other thing he could have done is kept players like Rondo and Green and sucked more, or not signed guys like Horford and Johnson and sucked more (but kept more room for the kids). Is this another tanking argument basically? What would the better alternative to accumulating picks have been?

Captain_Caveman · Post #188 » by **Captain_Caveman** » Sat Oct 22, 2016 10:21 pm

Smog wrote:
Captain_Caveman wrote:Since we already knew that Young was a bust, and both journeyman slob Gerald Green and late 2nd rounder Jackson appear safe, the fact that this is even a question assures me that Hunter is a bust also.

Remember all the love Ainge got for incrementally growing his treasure trove of lesser assets? With his near total failure to consolidate them, that's not looking to be as genius as he was getting credit for.

Sullinger and Turner out for nothing in return, Bentil cut, Young and Hunter likely washouts, forced to draft and stash with two 1st rounders and essentially with a 2nd rounder in Nader as well.

You act like Ainge incrementally hoarded assets in lieu of some other obvious strategy. All he did was squeeze all the value he could get out of an old roster. The only other thing he could have done is kept players like Rondo and Green and sucked more, or not signed guys like Horford and Johnson and sucked more (but kept more room for the kids). Is this another tanking argument basically? What would the better alternative to accumulating picks have been?

What I am saying is that he got too much credit for a series of inconsequential value adds that he has largely failed to consolidate. Which was definitely a big part of the plan, be it through trades big or small.

Also consider that we are talking about cutting one of two guys whose development was impeded by the presence of Evan Turner, who we didn't even choose to resign. It now appears we may do more of the same with Gerald Green.

Just noting it, is all.

Curmudgeon · Post #189 » by **Curmudgeon** » Sat Oct 22, 2016 10:31 pm

Captain_Caveman wrote:
Also consider that we are talking about cutting one of two guys whose development was impeded by the presence of Evan Turner, who we didn't even choose to resign. It now appears we may do more of the same with Gerald Green.

Just noting it, is all.

Except that giving Young and Hunter Turner's minutes would have impeded the development of Bradley, Smart and Crowder.

Every good team in the league is going to be cutting guys between now and 5:00 pm on Monday who at one time had quite a bit of potential. And every one of those teams will still be a good team, including the Celtics.

Hindsight is 20-20. If the Blazers hadn't come forward with a godfather offer, Turner might still be a Celtic and we would be waving goodbye to both Young and Hunter.

chakdaddy · Post #190 » by **chakdaddy** » Sat Oct 22, 2016 10:47 pm

Consolidation is a pipe dream. He got a lot of minor assets. Some of them are going to get cut because they're minor assets. I agree he got too much credit. I disagree that failure to consolidate them is a mistake rather than inevitability.

rickrolled · Post #191 » by **rickrolled** » Sat Oct 22, 2016 10:54 pm

The NBA should allow retroactive two way contracts for players drafted this year, if those players haven't signed with any new teams yet and the changes should start during the 2016-17 season. Not next season.

Post #192 » by **Parliament10** » Sat Oct 22, 2016 11:42 pm

rickrolled wrote:The NBA should allow retroactive two way contracts for players drafted this year, if those players haven't signed with any new teams yet and the changes should start during the 2016-17 season. Not next season.

Agreed.

Let's see what they do.

Captain_Caveman · Post #193 » by **Captain_Caveman** » Sat Oct 22, 2016 11:42 pm

chakdaddy wrote:Consolidation is a pipe dream. He got a lot of minor assets. Some of them are going to get cut because they're minor assets. I agree he got too much credit. I disagree that failure to consolidate them is a mistake rather than inevitability.

Never mind the fact that these guys would be buried so deep in the rotation that they'd never get off the bench, when you are cutting multiple recent picks early and are forced to draft multiple draft and stashes in the first round because you don't have enough roster spots, it's probably fair to question the overall utility of asset accumulation for its own sake.

I don't really feel like I am hammering Ainge too hard here. Nor do I think this is a complicated or particularly debatable point to make.

Captain_Caveman · Post #194 » by **Captain_Caveman** » Sat Oct 22, 2016 11:45 pm

Curmudgeon wrote:
Captain_Caveman wrote:
Also consider that we are talking about cutting one of two guys whose development was impeded by the presence of Evan Turner, who we didn't even choose to resign. It now appears we may do more of the same with Gerald Green.

Just noting it, is all.

Except that giving Young and Hunter Turner's minutes would have impeded the development of Bradley, Smart and Crowder.

Every good team in the league is going to be cutting guys between now and 5:00 pm on Monday who at one time had quite a bit of potential. And every one of those teams will still be a good team, including the Celtics.

Hindsight is 20-20. If the Blazers hadn't come forward with a godfather offer, Turner might still be a Celtic and we would be waving goodbye to both Young and Hunter.

No, not every team is cutting rookie scale guys this weekend.

FWIW, we were never going to resign Evan Turner this summer. That was obvious at the trade deadline.

VeryMuchWoke · Post #195 » by **VeryMuchWoke** » Sat Oct 22, 2016 11:48 pm

We had to cut a bust and make 1 suboptimal draft pick and people are complaining that Ainge didn't consolidate fast enough?

A few of those "inconsequential value adds" were moved for IT4. Another (Powell) helped net us Crowder. If there's a problem it's that teams are a bit weary of dealing with Ainge because he tends to win trades. That's not something he can be blamed for.

nowyouknow · Post #196 » by **nowyouknow** » Sat Oct 22, 2016 11:52 pm

Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

Ultimately the success or failure of the draft pick
Accumulation process will be determined not by the picks that don't work out, but by the ones that do.

Curmudgeon · Post #197 » by **Curmudgeon** » Sun Oct 23, 2016 12:07 am

nowyouknow wrote:Accumulation process will be determined not by the picks that don't work out, but by the ones that do.

Yep. And if Ainge had drafted Rodney Hood in 2014 and Willie Hernangomez in 2015 we'd be having similar discussions involving different players. Maybe we'd be discussing whether or not to cut Mickey or Rozier.

Captain_Caveman · Post #198 » by **Captain_Caveman** » Sun Oct 23, 2016 12:12 am

nowyouknow wrote:Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

Ultimately the success or failure of the draft pick
Accumulation process will be determined not by the picks that don't work out, but by the ones that do.

True enough, but that gets harder when there aren't minutes for you, or in Bentil's case, even a roster spot.

Curmudgeon · Post #199 » by **Curmudgeon** » Sun Oct 23, 2016 12:42 am

Well, it appears that Ainge is learning how to deal with multiple picks and this year he stashed his two promising 19 year-olds instead of bringing them onto the roster to fight for minutes.

nowyouknow · Post #200 » by **nowyouknow** » Sun Oct 23, 2016 12:43 am

Captain_Caveman wrote:
nowyouknow wrote:Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

Ultimately the success or failure of the draft pick
Accumulation process will be determined not by the picks that don't work out, but by the ones that do.

True enough, but that gets harder when there aren't minutes for you, or in Bentil's case, even a roster spot.

Sure. But Jackson is making the roster.

Had Bentil showed out in training camp... maybe he's on the roster and Jackson would be cut.

Ultimately I don't see the harm in seeing more players and assessing how they might fit into your team.

At the very least you get a chance to scout a future opponent.

Choose 4, of the Bottom 6, to make the Regular Season Roster