The (Where Ainges Fear to) Trade Thread, 2016-17 (1.0)

[CeltsfanSinceBirth]

Chandler had 18 rebounds the other night. If that's "falling off a cliff" I'll take it.

He's in Phoenix though, where they have that awesome medical staff. Either that, or they have the red witch from Game of Thrones bringing Tyson Chandler's corpse back to lfe before each game.

You can't trust or rely on old guys from Phoenix. Steve Nash could barely walk after he left the Suns. Same could be said of Grant Hill. Hell, they even made Jermaine O'Neal look decent at times, and this was after he had left the Celtics. Once someone trades for Chandler, they're going to absolutely regret that move.

[bigfoot_cryptozoology]

Bogut, who's expiring is a better option than Chandler.
Unless a Star is available, Ainge will hold on to his extra Cap Space for 2017 Free Agency.

[ddb]

That is not how it works. Chandler's 13 million would have to be hurdled by including 1sts to ship him out or we'd have to trade guys like AB to get max space. Non starter.

Ainge wouldn't throw in a first round pick for Chandler. Amir's salary matches on its own, but I'll gladly thrown in James Young, too!

It's not the cost of acquiring Chandler, but cost of having him or getting rid of him - Amir's $12 mil didn't matter so much this offseason, but we signed this guy named Al Horford to a max deal. That gives us a lot less wiggle room going forward.

You only trade for Tyson Chandler if you are giving up on FA as a route to add star talent.

exactly. you don't go trade for Chandler because if you do then you're giving up on landing a max free agent this summer. Danny wouldn't admit it, but Danny isn't in it this season to win a title. If it happens, great....It would be ahead of schedule. But we missed on Durant and because of that we aren't TRUE contenders. we are close. No point in making a short sighted move like bringing in Tyson Chandler. he will not move the needle enough.
we need to go into this offseason heavily equipped to make another splash like we did this past offseason. landing Jaylen Brown and Al Horford was a big deal. You do that again this offseason and we're contenders.

[Ducklett]

Vucevic is making roughly 12, 12.5 and 13 this year and the next 2. In a league where I fully expect Noel and KO to be looking at 15/year Vucevic is a pretty good deal. Potentially a steal. He would be a huge upgrade in the rebounding department.

What will it take to get him? Rozier and KO enough?

I think acquiring him will screw up our max cap space though.

Yeah, it's the latter that matters more to me. I want to add a max level talent while IT/AB/Jae/Smart still cost less than a max combined.

Vuc is the kind of contract that will make it easier to keep AB and IT and Smart in 2 years, but who cares if adding him prevented us from adding a max talent?

If we're going to give up on max FA, it should be for a bigger impact player, not for a guy that will make it more economical to keep winning 50+ games and lose to the superteams. If the impact players aren't available or worth the price, we should go for expiring vet band-aids or higher-upside guys.

I wouldn't trade for Vuc this year but if we miss on Blake I'd strongly consider it. The reason we are able to make a good pitch to FA's is because we have good players on undermarkwt deals. Adding more of those guys extends our window of being able to do so but you will have to say goodbye to one or possibly two of IT, AB or Smart the next offseason.

This is the last offseason where we have those 4 guys on cheap deals. The other option would be to roll over cap space and hope you can snag Cousins, George Westbrook the following FA and resign 2 of IT, AB and smart.

I totally understand that mentality. If you guys are going hard in the paint for a big time FA, I wouldn't want to add any extra salary to stop that from happening. However, you would be trading for Vuc from a position of strength right now because you could just walk away from the trade because of that. If you were to wait until after, the Magic would have the position of strength because you just missed out on your targets and have nothing to do with that money, not to mention, he may have been traded or be off the market by then (assuming the Magic make the playoffs with him dropping bombs on people or something).

[SMTBSI]

exactly. you don't go trade for Chandler because if you do then you're giving up on landing a max free agent this summer. Danny wouldn't admit it, but Danny isn't in it this season to win a title. If it happens, great....It would be ahead of schedule. But we missed on Durant and because of that we aren't TRUE contenders. we are close. No point in making a short sighted move like bringing in Tyson Chandler. he will not move the needle enough.

Agreed. Same reason they won't bring Zizic or Yabu over this year, even if they would help. We're still playing the long game. Patience... don't fire until you see the whites of their eyes.

[reload141]

Come deadline if Dallas is well and truly out of playoff contention i'd like to get Bogut from them.... and Bogdanovic from the Nets exactly what we need a defending the pain centre who can get boards and box out and a good shooter for the wings coming off the bench...
Something like Jackson/Young and something else for Bog

Zeller + a late first for Bogut?


Thomas/Rozier
Bradley/Smart/Bogdanovic/Green
Crowder/Brown/Bogdanovic/Green
Horford/KO/Jerebko
Amir/Bogut/Mickey

If either Rozier/Thomas are out Smart runs the point

[Andrew McCeltic]

Max free agent and a home run lotto pick, yeah, we're probably set. Botched pick, no max free agent, different story.

I think rolling over our cap space again makes sense, *but*...

Rozier or Olynyk (or Smart) for Noel, moving Olynyk for a rookie-scale guy (could we do Olynyk, Young for Nurkic?) keeps us cap neutral...

We could also potentially do better on the trade market with our expirings than we could in free agency.. Between Amir, Zeller and Jerebko, the offers on the table (Vucevic? Hayward? Rudy Gay? Enes Kanter?) could be better than who's left next summer, if we don't get Blake Griffin.

[Green89]

And I literally did name options: Bogut, Vuc, Ed Davis, Gortat, Faried. They are all younger than Chandler and at least 1 of them will likely be avialable. They are all either comparably priced or cheaper as well and each of them gives you comparable stats per 36 (Tyson last year was 10/12, they are all respectively 9/12, 20/10, 11/12, 16/12, 10/13). But none of them are 34!

Bogut is not available. Even their Rondo mistake was played out until the end of the year. Dallas isn't trading Bogut.

Vucevic is a sieve on defense. No thanks, and Orlando would want a lot more than what Phoenix would take for Chandler.

Gortat is under contract for nearly the same amount of cash as Chandler. There's no sign Washington is looking to move him.

Ed Davis is a power forward and he's a tier below Chandler, regardless of his per 36. There's a reason his career starts only total 1 full season, despite him being in the league 7 years now.

Faried is not a center and makes as much as Chandler. We don't need a 6'8" power forward to pair with Horford. We need a true center who can push Al to his natural spot.

[Green89]

exactly. you don't go trade for Chandler because if you do then you're giving up on landing a max free agent this summer. Danny wouldn't admit it, but Danny isn't in it this season to win a title. If it happens, great....It would be ahead of schedule. But we missed on Durant and because of that we aren't TRUE contenders. we are close. No point in making a short sighted move like bringing in Tyson Chandler. he will not move the needle enough.

Agreed. Same reason they won't bring Zizic or Yabu over this year, even if they would help. We're still playing the long game. Patience... don't fire until you see the whites of their eyes.

Patience? Landing a a max free agent?? What 2017 needle moving, all star free agent are we thinking is going to have a chance at signing with us next offseason? It would be silly to be overly concerned about keeping cash free for someone who doesn't exist.

[SMTBSI]

exactly. you don't go trade for Chandler because if you do then you're giving up on landing a max free agent this summer. Danny wouldn't admit it, but Danny isn't in it this season to win a title. If it happens, great....It would be ahead of schedule. But we missed on Durant and because of that we aren't TRUE contenders. we are close. No point in making a short sighted move like bringing in Tyson Chandler. he will not move the needle enough.

Agreed. Same reason they won't bring Zizic or Yabu over this year, even if they would help. We're still playing the long game. Patience... don't fire until you see the whites of their eyes.

Patience? Landing a a max free agent?? What 2017 needle moving, all star free agent are we thinking is going to have a chance at signing with us next offseason? It would be silly to be overly concerned about keeping cash free for someone who doesn't exist.

That, is what's called flinching


Whites of their eyes...

[reload141]

exactly. you don't go trade for Chandler because if you do then you're giving up on landing a max free agent this summer. Danny wouldn't admit it, but Danny isn't in it this season to win a title. If it happens, great....It would be ahead of schedule. But we missed on Durant and because of that we aren't TRUE contenders. we are close. No point in making a short sighted move like bringing in Tyson Chandler. he will not move the needle enough.

Agreed. Same reason they won't bring Zizic or Yabu over this year, even if they would help. We're still playing the long game. Patience... don't fire until you see the whites of their eyes.

Patience? Landing a a max free agent?? What 2017 needle moving, all star free agent are we thinking is going to have a chance at signing with us next offseason? It would be silly to be overly concerned about keeping cash free for someone who doesn't exist.

Gordon Hayward.

[SuperApexMan]

What about Nurkic. I don't recall anyone mentioning him. He is young mobile center, great at pick'n'roll, but most importantly, he is great rebounder and good enough rim protector. I think he has another year of it's rookie contract. I know he is young, not so athletic, and Denver won't let him go easily at all, but it would be a heck of a deal imo. Although he seems like a half court player i think he could adjust to our system. Only problem here would be price, imo.

[Andrew McCeltic]

What about Nurkic. I don't recall anyone mentioning him. He is young mobile center, great at pick'n'roll, but most importantly, he is great rebounder and good enough rim protector. I think he has another year of it's rookie contract. I know he is young, not so athletic, and Denver won't let him go easily at all, but it would be a heck of a deal imo. Although he seems like a half court player i think he could adjust to our system. Only problem here would be price, imo.

Max free agent and a home run lotto pick, yeah, we're probably set. Botched pick, no max free agent, different story.

I think rolling over our cap space again makes sense, *but*...

Rozier or Olynyk (or Smart) for Noel, moving Olynyk for a rookie-scale guy (could we do Olynyk, Young for Nurkic?) keeps us cap neutral...

We could also potentially do better on the trade market with our expirings than we could in free agency.. Between Amir, Zeller and Jerebko, the offers on the table (Vucevic? Hayward? Rudy Gay? Enes Kanter?) could be better than who's left next summer, if we don't get Blake Griffin.

[SuperApexMan]

What about Nurkic. I don't recall anyone mentioning him. He is young mobile center, great at pick'n'roll, but most importantly, he is great rebounder and good enough rim protector. I think he has another year of it's rookie contract. I know he is young, not so athletic, and Denver won't let him go easily at all, but it would be a heck of a deal imo. Although he seems like a half court player i think he could adjust to our system. Only problem here would be price, imo.

Max free agent and a home run lotto pick, yeah, we're probably set. Botched pick, no max free agent, different story.

I think rolling over our cap space again makes sense, *but*...

Rozier or Olynyk (or Smart) for Noel, moving Olynyk for a rookie-scale guy (could we do Olynyk, Young for Nurkic?) keeps us cap neutral...

Well I gues I must have missed it, sorry, I'm glad somebody is having him no his radar, but nonetheless, there aren't a lot of peeps talking about Nurkic or ways to acquire him. Haven't heard a lot of trade rumors regarding him, or his availability, which is just strange. Could have something to do with his injuries though ..

[cl2117]

Jeff Whitey is another guy I think is the type of player that would really help us out.

He's expiring so he won't affect the cap going forward, he's nothing special so he shouldn't cost an arm and a leg to get (2nds most likely). He doesn't really fit the mold of what Stevens wants out of his bigs since he's not range-y, but he helps with our biggest needs: rebounding and defending the rim. For 10-12 minutes a game I think he'd be able to stem a bit of the bleeding on the boards and give us a bit of a presence in the paint on defense.

I just can't figure out something that works for Utah. They need him as a backup big and don't need 2nds, but I'd not be willing to give up more. Likely need a third team and then it gets too complicated for such a minor move.

[Green89]

Agreed. Same reason they won't bring Zizic or Yabu over this year, even if they would help. We're still playing the long game. Patience... don't fire until you see the whites of their eyes.

Patience? Landing a a max free agent?? What 2017 needle moving, all star free agent are we thinking is going to have a chance at signing with us next offseason? It would be silly to be overly concerned about keeping cash free for someone who doesn't exist.

Gordon Hayward.

I like Hayward, but who will he replace in the starting lineup? He certainly isn't worth a $20 million salary upgrade over Jae's much smaller $7 million contract.

[Kolkmania]

What about Nurkic. I don't recall anyone mentioning him. He is young mobile center, great at pick'n'roll, but most importantly, he is great rebounder and good enough rim protector. I think he has another year of it's rookie contract. I know he is young, not so athletic, and Denver won't let him go easily at all, but it would be a heck of a deal imo. Although he seems like a half court player i think he could adjust to our system. Only problem here would be price, imo.

Max free agent and a home run lotto pick, yeah, we're probably set. Botched pick, no max free agent, different story.

I think rolling over our cap space again makes sense, *but*...

Rozier or Olynyk (or Smart) for Noel, moving Olynyk for a rookie-scale guy (could we do Olynyk, Young for Nurkic?) keeps us cap neutral...

Well I gues I must have missed it, sorry, I'm glad somebody is having him no his radar, but nonetheless, there aren't a lot of peeps talking about Nurkic or ways to acquire him. Haven't heard a lot of trade rumors regarding him, or his availability, which is just strange. Could have something to do with his injuries though ..

I like Nurkic a lot, just like Malone. No way they trade him for Olynyk and Young, it's not even close.

[cl2117]

Patience? Landing a a max free agent?? What 2017 needle moving, all star free agent are we thinking is going to have a chance at signing with us next offseason? It would be silly to be overly concerned about keeping cash free for someone who doesn't exist.

Gordon Hayward.

I like Hayward, but who will he replace in the starting lineup? He certainly isn't worth a $20 million salary upgrade over Jae's much smaller $7 million contract.

Go small and push Jae to the 4.

Probably need to play Smart more with the first unit to beef up their defense and then run IT more with the 2nd unit. Could have a 4th quarter lineup of IT/Bradley/Hayward/Crowder/Horford, which I'd take 10/10 over IT/Bradley/Crowder/Horford/Chandler.

I think the dream option is Blake Griffin. He would fit in well, really help with the rebounding and defense. I think any of Millsap, Noel and Ibaka could be options to throw money at.

Otherwise they could always do deals like they've done with Zeller, Amir and Jerebko where they overpay for shorter term non-guaranteed deals so that they could re-open the cap space for 2018. Not the best option given that AB and IT would need extensions that same summer, but still better than tying up the money in Chandler for the next 3 years.

[Green89]

What about Nurkic. I don't recall anyone mentioning him. He is young mobile center, great at pick'n'roll, but most importantly, he is great rebounder and good enough rim protector. I think he has another year of it's rookie contract. I know he is young, not so athletic, and Denver won't let him go easily at all, but it would be a heck of a deal imo. Although he seems like a half court player i think he could adjust to our system. Only problem here would be price, imo.

A bit of a defensive liability. I don't think Denver's even playing him in 4th quarters when everyone goes small. Both he and Jokic are on salaries well below their net worth, so it would take giving up a ton for Denver to part with one of them.

[sportscrazy]

If the Clippers made Blake Griffin available, which draft picks would Boston add to an Avery Bradley/Amir Johnson for Blake Griffin swap? The 2017 Brooklyn Nets pick seems necessary, would you add a non-Brooklyn 2018 first and the Clippers own 2019 pick returned?