Knicks-Rockets PG: Who didn't see this coming?

[Johnny Hoops]

dolan is why kp is neither guarding his man or the lane. got it.

I see you're ignoring the positional issue. Continue. He is no man's land because he doesn't have the foot speed to close out and cover the penetrating man. It's a common issue with out of position bigs guarding the perimeter.

I mean, last year everyone was raving how good he can guard even the small guards in the perimeter. for a 7`3 guy.

And I certainly don't remember him guarding stretch fours being a big problem.

So I don't understand how people aren't seeing that this is overall team defense issue. Failed switches, zero communication on who should pick who in transition defense, him staying far off his guy when he is on the 3pt line, because he has an instruction from coaches to be closer to the paint all the time.

Remember, how last year they were switching in every PNR, so opposition team created mismatches left and right, but at least they weren't losing guys that often as this team.

And how can people even assume KP is that dumb, that he doesn't know Anderson, or pretty much every 4 in the league, can hit 3, so he leaves them wide open. Or he knows.. but just decides to **** it, let them shoot.

I mean, all those things, miss communication, failed switches, him not founding balance between being a paint presence and guarding a 3pt line, is also his fault. But people are ignoring the overall team issues hard here...

Yeah - these are excellent points.

KP showed all of last year (the entire year) that he could in fact take on switches with whatever player and hold his own -- so it's not that he doesn't have the ability. He often switched out on PGs and held his own -- often contesting/blocking shots on the perimeter or at the rim or just nullifying the switch.

Now this year - he does appear lost -- often off-balance. This is NOT a physical inability to defend because he's actually more mobile -- that's why I keep coming down to either scheme or there is a clubhouse or chemistry issue.

It has crossed my mind that something has potentially happened to the Melo/KP relationship because I don't see Melo looking for KP as often and there were those comments from Melo right before the season about KP not being ready to handle the NY pressure.

Not saying this is an issue but when things get this bad -- it's typically a chemistry thing where guys are NOT trusting/liking each other. There is simply no excuse for a core 4 guys of Noah/Melo/Rose/Lee to look completely lost covering plays they've seen thousands of times over their extended careers -- it's something else.

[HKSVIP]

Lance should start in Porzingis' spot. That way we have a 5 off the bench who can be the focus of the offense and he can protect the paint and not have to be out on shooters. This might reduce O'Quinn's minutes but that is something we will need to do even though he is playing well this season

Rose/Jennings
Lee/Baker
Thomas/Holiday
Melo/O'Quinn
Noah/KP

Lance needs his minutes cut, and you want to start him?

Why does he need his minutes cut? Technically they were because he played 10 minutes last night and we still got embarrassed so I hope all those saying he's the problem realize he's not. He's the best defender on the team and he hit his only three point attempt last night.

It's all about matchups. Porzingis cannot defend out to the perimeter all the time. He is a center on defense and a Face-up 4/5 on offense. He can't even get position on Trevor Ariza down low.

[HEZI]

Noah doesn't have any lift. The thing that's throwing me off is Rose doing nothing but getting attempts at the rim and not shooting 1 FT. He gets 2 calls (and that's modest) yesterday and his line looks so much better 8-16 with 20 but he's getting so much contact and no call

He gets killed at the rim constantly but no call. Last night on one particular drive he got sandwiched by 3 Rockets defenders and they still didn't call a foul. I think if the Knicks actually played better as a team he would have gotten the call, however the entire Knicks team was playing like trash and the refs didn't give them any favors. We were getting blown out, had we actually competed then the refs might have given him those calls but we didn't .

I mean it's happening all game, he should be living there the way he's attacking people are talking about him blowing layups but it's probably because he should be at the line most times. Him and Porzingis need to develop some chemistry no idea why Noah always sets the screen no one will defend him to Roll or pop

I ask myself the same question

[Johnny Hoops]

And you don't think Phil insisting on running an expired, too slow, predictable offense has a lot to do with it? If players aren't comfortable and happy playing offense, they are not going to try their best on defense.

Why are you complaining about that? I saw very little triangle ran in that game.

You should be worried about giving up the absurd amount of 3's, wide-open looks at the rim, backdoor cuts, etc. This team wouldn't defend my mother, and she would put up 30 in her 70 year old self against this team.

What games are you watching? EVERYTHING in the halfcourt has been triangle.

I'm not seeing triangle. Last year I saw 95% triangle because Fisher/we committed to it -- this year I'm not seeing triangle much at all. We may be running it but it is NOT even close to the crispness we were running it at last year. Triangle is one of those things you have to be either all in or all out and right now we are just in nowhere land.

[BeagleBoss]

Why are you complaining about that? I saw very little triangle ran in that game.

You should be worried about giving up the absurd amount of 3's, wide-open looks at the rim, backdoor cuts, etc. This team wouldn't defend my mother, and she would put up 30 in her 70 year old self against this team.

What games are you watching? EVERYTHING in the halfcourt has been triangle.

I'm not seeing triangle. Last year I saw 95% triangle because Fisher/we committed to it -- this year I'm not seeing triangle much at all. We may be running it but it is NOT even close to the crispness we were running it at last year. Triangle is one of those things you have to be either all in or all out and right now we are just in nowhere land.

These players don't want to play in it. No player does. And to keep forcing them to run it will just continue to make things worse. Players will continue to be confused, uncomfortable and unhappy and thus they won't play defense.

[Johnny Hoops]

Mike D'Antoni wanted to annihilate us last night

This guy was bitching hard about a continuation call up 23 pts in the 4th qtr. Rockets up by 30 and his starters are still out there in the 4th. Was it his first W against the Knicks at MSG since he resigned?

Either way, he wanted to run up the score so bad

Do you blame him?

Melo refused to play for him - didn't like the style because it didn't cater to his elbow offense and D'Antoni's reputation was permanently soiled.

All I know is last night and in the pre-season his team/offense and their energy made us look like a bunch of school girls.

[Johnny Hoops]

The problem with KP right now, IMO, is that he is not dominant enough on offense, especially in the post, to dictate how opposing teams play us. By that, I mean that if he were to hypothetically take more shots in the post, using his height to his advantage, he would force opposing teams to go bigger to defend him, thus allowing him to avoid the mismatch of covering stretch 4s.

Conversely, KP plays like a role playing wing. A jump shooter for the most part, and not a great one so far, who can be covered by the likes of Anderson or Love with ease.

Basically KP commands zero respect from our opponents and as a result he's left covering stretch 4s on the perimeter. Until he mans up and gains enough strength to bang and dominate the low block, he will be relegated to this life on the court.


I don't know what he was doing this summer, but it was not maximizing his strengths, which is his height, especially knowing he'd be playing the 4. He should have put on 20lbs and learned some post moves or a Dirk-like fade away. Instead, he looks like he worked on his crossover which is useless at his current position/role on the team. There's a reason Dirk created his one legged fade away rainbow shot. It's unguardable, due to his height. KP is in a similar situation, where he can develop that shot, taking advantage of his height. Crossing people up is the last thing I want him to do.

The pure triangle was actually great for Melo/KP just like it was for Kobe/Gasol -- it gave them structure, made the defense move and gave them the ball in good spots to operate from. Right now we have no structure -- I've watched every pre-season game and regular season game (sometimes 2X) and I've got no idea what our game plan is offensively.

[Carl_Karlson]

We're a lotto team. I don't see how these guys (coach included) can win more than 30 games. The fcking Nets would run us off the court

[Johnny Hoops]

Lance should start in Porzingis' spot. That way we have a 5 off the bench who can be the focus of the offense and he can protect the paint and not have to be out on shooters. This might reduce O'Quinn's minutes but that is something we will need to do even though he is playing well this season

Rose/Jennings
Lee/Baker
Thomas/Holiday
Melo/O'Quinn
Noah/KP

Lance needs his minutes cut, and you want to start him?

Why does he need his minutes cut? Technically they were because he played 10 minutes last night and we still got embarrassed so I hope all those saying he's the problem realize he's not. He's the best defender on the team and he hit his only three point attempt last night.

It's all about matchups. Porzingis cannot defend out to the perimeter all the time. He is a center on defense and a Face-up 4/5 on offense. He can't even get position on Trevor Ariza down low.

He has been brutal - often out of place defensively, shooting like poo and passing the ball to the opposition.

We all loved what Lance brought last year but he has been a fish out of water this year on both sides of the court.

He is another guy that fit the triangle perfectly -- now he is out of his element at least to start the season.

[Apples]

I looked at the schedule. This team isn't winning more than 20-25 games.

[iAdoreeKnicks]

It's sad that we played them better during preseason.

[Apples]

I see you're ignoring the positional issue. Continue. He is no man's land because he doesn't have the foot speed to close out and cover the penetrating man. It's a common issue with out of position bigs guarding the perimeter.

I mean, last year everyone was raving how good he can guard even the small guards in the perimeter. for a 7`3 guy.

And I certainly don't remember him guarding stretch fours being a big problem.

So I don't understand how people aren't seeing that this is overall team defense issue. Failed switches, zero communication on who should pick who in transition defense, him staying far off his guy when he is on the 3pt line, because he has an instruction from coaches to be closer to the paint all the time.

Remember, how last year they were switching in every PNR, so opposition team created mismatches left and right, but at least they weren't losing guys that often as this team.

And how can people even assume KP is that dumb, that he doesn't know Anderson, or pretty much every 4 in the league, can hit 3, so he leaves them wide open. Or he knows.. but just decides to **** it, let them shoot.

I mean, all those things, miss communication, failed switches, him not founding balance between being a paint presence and guarding a 3pt line, is also his fault. But people are ignoring the overall team issues hard here...

Yeah - these are excellent points.

KP showed all of last year (the entire year) that he could in fact take on switches with whatever player and hold his own -- so it's not that he doesn't have the ability. He often switched out on PGs and held his own -- often contesting/blocking shots on the perimeter or at the rim or just nullifying the switch.

Now this year - he does appear lost -- often off-balance. This is NOT a physical inability to defend because he's actually more mobile -- that's why I keep coming down to either scheme or there is a clubhouse or chemistry issue.

It has crossed my mind that something has potentially happened to the Melo/KP relationship because I don't see Melo looking for KP as often and there were those comments from Melo right before the season about KP not being ready to handle the NY pressure.

Not saying this is an issue but when things get this bad -- it's typically a chemistry thing where guys are NOT trusting/liking each other. There is simply no excuse for a core 4 guys of Noah/Melo/Rose/Lee to look completely lost covering plays they've seen thousands of times over their extended careers -- it's something else.

This is interesting to me. I don't know but I have noticed too he's not looking for KP like he was last year.

[Johnny Hoops]

What games are you watching? EVERYTHING in the halfcourt has been triangle.

I'm not seeing triangle. Last year I saw 95% triangle because Fisher/we committed to it -- this year I'm not seeing triangle much at all. We may be running it but it is NOT even close to the crispness we were running it at last year. Triangle is one of those things you have to be either all in or all out and right now we are just in nowhere land.

These players don't want to play in it. No player does. And to keep forcing them to run it will just continue to make things worse. Players will continue to be confused, uncomfortable and unhappy and thus they won't play defense.

I don't disagree and maybe that is the chemistry issue that is creating the poor D -- you may be right.

Internally all this could be a power struggle by the players to put the triangle to bed permanently but not sure how that effort would turn out due to Phil. I think Horny would drop the triangle in a heart beat. If the players know Horny doesn't love it but is running it to keep Phil happy -- maybe he could lose the team because they won't respect him for failing to stand up to Phil.

All speculation but it's possibly the issue.

[HEZI]

Why are you complaining about that? I saw very little triangle ran in that game.

You should be worried about giving up the absurd amount of 3's, wide-open looks at the rim, backdoor cuts, etc. This team wouldn't defend my mother, and she would put up 30 in her 70 year old self against this team.

What games are you watching? EVERYTHING in the halfcourt has been triangle.

I'm not seeing triangle. Last year I saw 95% triangle because Fisher/we committed to it -- this year I'm not seeing triangle much at all. We may be running it but it is NOT even close to the crispness we were running it at last year. Triangle is one of those things you have to be either all in or all out and right now we are just in nowhere land.

Last 2 games we ran nothing but triangle

The problem is that Melo can't make reads out of it. He is awful at making decisions out of triangle sets, you need guys with quick reaction and Melo is slow in his reaction. You notice how he never gives the ball back to the guard out of the pinch post? Never!

Maurice NDour and Ron Baker had way more fluidity when they ran it because NDour actually knows how to make a quick decision with the ball, he doesn't hold it.

I'm not knocking on Melo I'm just saying he is not a triangle type of player, especially now in this stage of his career where he looks slow and takes way too much time to make a decision with the ball. We need to be running an offense that suits the players we have.

[NYKnicksTAPE]

Dennis Smith vs Markelle Fultz

this is a good draft to have a lottery pick

we won't get either of them tho, this team will finish as a low playoff seed or just outside the playoffs with a 9th or 10th seed...then we'll be hoping that Gaines can find us a gem with a mid lotto pick

Im glad your sane Bro, I was a little nervous . I know you wanted to be the Tank commander, but .....

don't let the tank posts fool u lol...I know what situation we're in, this team won't be bad enough to be in play for Fultz or Smith Jr. no matter how much I wish they were

[whocares1]

I looked at the schedule. This team isn't winning more than 20-25 games.

Just tell me the winning lotto numbers and we're all set.

[Rotten Apple]

I looked at the schedule. This team isn't winning more than 20-25 games.

You didn't need to look at the schedule to see that.

Our offense might have more angles than we have wins.

[Meat]

I looked at the schedule. This team isn't winning more than 20-25 games.

what does the schedule have to do with it?
is it a surprise that the knicks play 2 games against the opposing conference?
4 games against teams in their division?
oh was it the 41 road games?

[Johnny Hoops]

If the players are happy they will compete -- simple as that -- right now there is something wrong in terms of player to player, player to coach or player to management --- a bit of a mutiny if you will.

[NYKnicksTAPE]

I looked at the schedule. This team isn't winning more than 20-25 games.

nah, we'll end up winning more games than last year...this team will eventually go on a decent run to end up finishing with 35+ wins