Is West Trash (so far)?

[Bball0000]

Many on this board seem to think David West is trash.

Is the net rating just a fluke?

Not only is he not trash, but he's valuable to the team, especially come playoff time, in being the only true low post player. Jump shots always go cold, so having a legitimate post player who could bang is important. Even if he doesn't play a ton of minutes, just having that skill set threat on your roster means the team can have versatility, balance, and mix it up. I think the more he plays with the team and his role is defined, the better he'll do. He's playoff tested, high iq, tough player, just the kind of player this team needs in the playoffs.

[cdubbz]

Yes, he declined his player option with the Spurs to sign with us for somewhat less.

I think he will be much improved come playoff time. He is adjusting to a new team, new offense and a new defense. I don't expect him to score in double digits or rebound in double digits, just provide consistent quality play when he is in the lineup. He is built for the ruggedness of the playoffs and why our front office went after him in May of this year.

Sure. We also got him because we needed to sign any big for the veterans minimum lol. West will definitely help (i hope) when the pace is slowed down against some teams in playoffs. His ability to draw fouls in the paint during post ups will be valuable.

Keep in mind that Speights also signed for the minimum elsewhere. It was a decision to get West over keeping Speights, not a panic move.

I think he's already started to show his versatility and comfort in our scheme. He knows where to look for the next pass and really battles for boards and inside buckets. I think sometimes we take for granted how incredibly complex our offensive and defensive schemes are. The old timers likely remember the first month of Kerr where the team looked overwhelmingly talented, but a step or two slow at all times. We then kept basically the same exact team in tact for two years and what resulted was beautiful offense and incredible switches on D.

It takes time fellas. Mo was our worst player for a full year then turned into a hugely useful piece...because he finally grasped his role in the team. I'm confident our guys will do the same, especially when we remember that half the team is brand new.

True. But Speights signed a 2yr contract vs Wests 1yr contract which makes a small difference. I'd rather have Speights jumper and 3pointer than Wests post game.

[likashing]

Trash

[michaelm]

Many on this board seem to think David West is trash.

Is the net rating just a fluke?

Not only is he not trash, but he's valuable to the team, especially come playoff time, in being the only true low post player. Jump shots always go cold, so having a legitimate post player who could bang is important. Even if he doesn't play a ton of minutes, just having that skill set threat on your roster means the team can have versatility, balance, and mix it up. I think the more he plays with the team and his role is defined, the better he'll do. He's playoff tested, high iq, tough player, just the kind of player this team needs in the playoffs.

This.

They are building for the play-offs, not for the regular season during which Speights was often quite useful, but as an offensive player almost exclusively. They gained Durant reducing the need for Speights anyway, but needed guys who could bang with opposition bigs. I think Durant will do so to some extent post-season, but don't want him worn out in the regular season, and anything which/anyone who takes some of the load off Green is good as well,

[Impuniti]

He's surprised me lately. Playing a lot better than I expected. One player that hasn't impressed me that much this year is Livingston.

[Left*My*Heart]

He's surprised me lately. Playing a lot better than I expected. One player that hasn't impressed me that much this year is Livingston.

I think he has played really well this month. I would like to see his minutes limited to around 15, down from the 18 he is averaging. He is without a doubt a vital piece to our playoff success and having him fresh for the playoffs will be huge. I have been down on McCaw of late and I hope he gets out of a funk. He is a guy who should be getting 15 minutes a game and he is struggling to get that. That forces Livingston and Iguodala to play more.

[Mylie10]

livingston has been on lately. He's nailing that midrange shot lately, even with pressure.

I think Livingstons minutes have been a little to sporadic. I like that McCaw and Clark have shown us something this year, but it has come at the expense of getting Livingston into a more regular rhythm. He seems to be rounding into shape, just like Iguodala and West have.

[likashing]

The Shaun/West/Iguodala/KD/Klay lineup is our #3 used lineup with a net rating AHEAD of the death lineup. Yes, against opponents' bench mostly instead of starters, but still this is obvious evidence that West and Shaun have not been trash or even off this season. They are consistent and fill their roles with KD/Klay/Iguodala when Steph+Draymond rest.

Their game isn't spectacular but they do all other little things needed on the court. Speights gets his fans because of the shots he hits once in a while, but then he goes cold for a long time. Speights on-court net rating is -0.8 and and raw plus minus is barely positive at 0.3 per game.

Not only is Speights not better than West in a vacuum, as explained by other folks his skill set is not a good fit for this year's team either.

I have been glad since the beginning of the season that Speights is out and West is in.

[FNQ]

FTR, Speights is having a career year down south. .556 TS%, he's raised his rebrate, he's lowered his TO% (ast% has dropped to fwiw).. he's dropped slightly to 66th. West has dropped back down into the 100s to at 112. I don't put much stock in Mo's on/off in LAC because DeAndre is sporting an INSANE +35.6 on/off difference (100 poss.) right now per82 games and Mo is at -15.4

They are vastly different players but RPM seems to get the value of a microwave player. But truthfully we really dont need Mo's microwaving as much anymore with our big 4, plus Ian Clark really stepping up in the 2nd unit.

[ChuckS]

It is no secret that I always choose to use unadulterated numbers if I have a choice. For that reason, I really value 82games.com. It, and others, breaks down "all"? (or top 20 of) a teams five man units, with offensive and defensive points per possession, with that squad's net plus minus.

Our "Death Squad", as expected, is our best, at +26, with a offensive rating of 1.32 and a defensive rating of 1.12.

Our starters, are a +1, offensively with a 1.11 and defensively 1.10. (In judging, keep in mind that "all" their time is versus starters, and the sample size is more than double the others.)

Our second best unit consists of Durant, Klay, Dre, Livingston, and West. It has a +19, with 1.16 offense, and *0.94* defense.

I believe these numbers will be better with a full year sample because currently they are affected by the acclimation period for so many new players. But they might allay some early fears.

Our vets with Klay and Kevin comprise the best defensive unit. That could be somewhat explained by Livingston instead of Curry. But because of the significant absence of Green could also suggest that David is a better defensive center (even if a more natural power four) than has been acknowledged. He was a significant defensive presence with the Spurs. Also, our starters having a nominal two hundredths (.02) advantage over our small squad, could mean that we are not that porous at center, particularly with the numbers we can throw in there for fouls and change of styles.

As far as the immediate question, I cannot knock Speights. He played well for us and has been having a very good season. But we do not have him, and so far I really like West.

[KevinMcreynolds]

All stats aside, Mo's issue is he's a dumbass and derps too much.

[likashing]

Our vets with Klay and Kevin comprise the best defensive unit. That could be somewhat explained by Livingston instead of Curry. But because of the significant absence of Green could also suggest that David is a better defensive center (even if a more natural power four) than has been acknowledged. He was a significant defensive presence with the Spurs. Also, our starters having a nominal two hundredths (.02) advantage over our small squad, could mean that we are not that porous at center, particularly with the numbers we can throw in there for fouls and change of styles.

Lots of fans like to watch a big block and "rim protection".

The most used lineup with McGee includes Draymond/Iguodala/Klay/Steph, gives up 130 points per 100 (nba.com) possessions. So much about "rim protection" = defense.

Sadly this is what most fans see, and they will continue to cheer on it.

For the heck of it if Ian Clark plays center with defenders like Iguodala+Klay+Draymond, I don't know if that lineup can give up 130 points per 100 possessions...

[Mylie10]

All stats aside, Mo's issue is he's a dumbass and derps too much.

At least he's not a herp derp...Old Rem is holding that space down.

[Money_]

remember 2015 during the finals, a few games in, shots were not falling who came in and gave us 6-12 points off the p n r?
and basically continued our momentum.... David fricken Lee.

West is better than him at playing basketball.... West is better than Mo.
He's a smarter player than Mo and more physically talented than Lee.
To say that we are going to need someone like him during a grind it out playoff series is an understatement.
We'll need two of him.

[Mylie10]

Beautiful Trash:

[turk3d]

Mo's not a good fit for us, never was. Very tough for him to get minutes here. A lot more opportunity for him in LA-LA land. Gives them the big man long ball threat and can fill in for Blake when he's in foul trouble or playing stupid. Gives them an alternative for Jordan during crunch time since he can hit a free throw.

[FNQ]

Mo's not a good fit for us, never was. Very tough for him to get minutes here. A lot more opportunity for him in LA-LA land. Gives them the big man long ball threat and can fill in for Blake when he's in foul trouble or playing stupid. Gives them an alternative for Jordan during crunch time since he can hit a free throw.

Mo was a tremendous fit next to scoring-challenged backups like Livingston and Iguodala.. he and Barbosa could carry us through rough stretches. And Mo was always a solid rebounder and nearly led the league in charges drawn as a backup. Feel like he's underrated now because of all his derpy moments, but I think the guy was really solid for us and is improving on that in LAC. When I found out they signed him for the minimum, I was stunned. Cole Aldrich got 9m a season and Mo gets a 2 year minimum? dafuq??

[Mylie10]

Mo's not a good fit for us, never was. Very tough for him to get minutes here. A lot more opportunity for him in LA-LA land. Gives them the big man long ball threat and can fill in for Blake when he's in foul trouble or playing stupid. Gives them an alternative for Jordan during crunch time since he can hit a free throw.

Mo was a tremendous fit next to scoring-challenged backups like Livingston and Iguodala.. he and Barbosa could carry us through rough stretches. And Mo was always a solid rebounder and nearly led the league in charges drawn as a backup. Feel like he's underrated now because of all his derpy moments, but I think the guy was really solid for us and is improving on that in LAC. When I found out they signed him for the minimum, I was stunned. Cole Aldrich got 9m a season and Mo gets a 2 year minimum? dafuq??

Totally agree. I feel like Mo is completely under-rated by many, and also many GM's. Which is stupid if you look at his rebounding rate and scoring rate. Now that he's added the 3 point shot as well, and looks good doing it, I'm baffled at why nobody stepped up for him.

Mo was a great fit for us, and Kerr knew how to handle him. If Mo wasn't having a buckets night early, Kerr would sit him. If Mo was on, Kerr would ride that wave. You don't get a killer nickname like mo Buckets if you aren't fitting in. It'd be more like Sucky Mo, if he wasn't a fit.

His per 36 numbers were fantastic....something like 23 points and 11 rebounds. Not to mention, he's a better shot blocker than people realize. He just falls down to much lol.

The friggen value on a minimum contract is through the roof, and one of the best/luckiest signings Doc has ever made.

[Warriors Analyst]

Mo's not a good fit for us, never was. Very tough for him to get minutes here. A lot more opportunity for him in LA-LA land. Gives them the big man long ball threat and can fill in for Blake when he's in foul trouble or playing stupid. Gives them an alternative for Jordan during crunch time since he can hit a free throw.

Mo was a tremendous fit next to scoring-challenged backups like Livingston and Iguodala.. he and Barbosa could carry us through rough stretches. And Mo was always a solid rebounder and nearly led the league in charges drawn as a backup. Feel like he's underrated now because of all his derpy moments, but I think the guy was really solid for us and is improving on that in LAC. When I found out they signed him for the minimum, I was stunned. Cole Aldrich got 9m a season and Mo gets a 2 year minimum? dafuq??

Totally agree. I feel like Mo is completely under-rated by many, and also many GM's. Which is stupid if you look at his rebounding rate and scoring rate. Now that he's added the 3 point shot as well, and looks good doing it, I'm baffled at why nobody stepped up for him.

Mo was a great fit for us, and Kerr knew how to handle him. If Mo wasn't having a buckets night early, Kerr would sit him. If Mo was on, Kerr would ride that wave. You don't get a killer nickname like mo Buckets if you aren't fitting in. It'd be more like Sucky Mo, if he wasn't a fit.

His per 36 numbers were fantastic....something like 23 points and 11 rebounds. Not to mention, he's a better shot blocker than people realize. He just falls down to much lol.

The friggen value on a minimum contract is through the roof, and one of the best/luckiest signings Doc has ever made.

I was studying abroad in Cuba for most of the Walton era and thus was unable to watch any of the 24 game win streak. I made use of my limited internet availability to read articles about the Warriors on GSOM or by Ethan Sherwood Strauss and what I seem to recall was that Walton was trying to find a balance of minutes between Bogut/Festus/Mo and was using Mo at the 4. I have, since Mo Buckets came to the Warriors railed against the idiocy of playing him at the 4 where he's a slow footed defender and is easy to suck into pick and rolls where he gives up points to penetrating ball handlers. I seem to also remember that during the beginning of the year, Mo's shooting numbers were very poor, which I would assume had a lot to do with being played at the 4 next to Festus (this of course, being before Mo started shooting the 3 consistently).

Mo had his flaws, although I don't think his spaciness is anywhere as bad as McGee who is prone to dumb fouls and being horribly out of position. Too lazy to look up the numbers (I am currently procrastinating on end of the semester homework...), but I'd assume that the numbers bear out that Mo at 5 wasn't a total trainwreck defensively and that his three point shooting helped make some very potent bench units. We have data from the Jackson years that shows that the Warriors maintained good DRTGs and net RTGs with Green/Lee frontcourts, so I see no reason Mo Buckets would have been any worse, especially since he was good for an occasional blocked shot in addition to him drawing charges.

I agree with you and FNQ, I am baffled that Mo couldn't get more than the vet min. I wonder how much of this has to do with his TS% and his numbers in general being depressed by the first stretch of the season where he played almost exclusively the 4 under Walton.

[likashing]

I've watched many Clippers games this season. Their commentators said he lost 10-20 pounds this summer. Given he signed early July, he probably looked like **** overweight at the beginning of FA.

This sorts of explains his better production with the Clippers this season, and why not many suitors.

As much as I don't think Speights is all that good, he is a great bargain at min, fat or slim.