Bradley Beal - Part III

[nate33]

His ORTG is up to 118 on the season, and his scoring rate per 36 is up 3 pts from last year.

He is getting into MIP territory.

At this point, the debate is for runner-up for the Most Improved Player. Antetokounmpo has that award locked down.

LOL hadn't thought about that. were you able to spell his last name without looking it up?

No.

[AFM]

I'd beat the chit out of both John and Beal

I'd call in my body guard real quick, Jason Smiff, he'd go Kaioken x4 on they asses

[Ruzious]

Where's my plate of crow?

I take back my suggestion of dealing Beal for Covington, Holmes & Noel

Beal has been amazing. I'd like to see a few more rebounds. Also his defensive intensity has been better lately after a brutal start but he can continue to improve on that end as well.

Right now he's playing like a top 60 player and a top 8 SG. Not quite worth $128 million but on par with say DeMar DeRozan. Definitely not a contract albatross. That's more that I could have ever imagined after the way he started the season.

I have to say that Beal his SHOCKED me.

Ordinarily, guys are who they've always been. It's generally easy to look at their previous production and to extrapolate what their future production will be.

All I will say about Beal is I know the dude is from a praying family. Anything's possible with prayer.

To those not so inclined to believe, let's just say Beal has improved phenomenally.

I have had faith in Beal from the beginning more or less. Nivek was also quick to point out the timeline to write him off and that was this year. So it wasnt just a gut feeling, but one with some empirical evidence

But as to the "Gut" feeling... I was always struck by how he appeared confident, yet humble and calm. Like a man with a plan.
I hate to derail this thread into a family structure discussion, but I dont think Cowherd was completely wrong when he talks about high level athletes with strong men (Fathers and brothers) in their lives vs those who dont. Use our team as an example

Players who had their fathers in their lives and were role models:
Beal, Otto, and Oubre. All three come off as focused and respectful. They dont have an ounce of coward in them and are known hard workers who dont worry as much about Nightclubs and Instagram as they do about working on their craft.

Players who did not have their fathers in their lives:
Wall and Morris. I love Wall, but both of these guys wear their emotions on their sleeve and are inconsistent. They both enjoy the nightlife and have a hard time with being criticized.
Wall is the talker and will get in peoples face, but im here to tell you... If you put Wall and Beal in a room, Beal's the one coming out alive.

Again, I dont want this to derail the thread and there are always exceptions/outliers. But if im scouting a player, it's something that I take into consideration.

If you were intending to take a shot at Wall's character, work ethic, and focus - I think you're way off base. He was put in the position of carrying this team from day 1 - and I think he's given more effort and shown more heart and a bigger will to win than anyone else on the roster since he's been here. There's almost zero chance that Beal or Porter could have held up to the expectations that were heaped on John if they had to walk in his shoes in their first few years in the NBA.

[pcbothwel]

I have to say that Beal his SHOCKED me.

Ordinarily, guys are who they've always been. It's generally easy to look at their previous production and to extrapolate what their future production will be.

All I will say about Beal is I know the dude is from a praying family. Anything's possible with prayer.

To those not so inclined to believe, let's just say Beal has improved phenomenally.

I have had faith in Beal from the beginning more or less. Nivek was also quick to point out the timeline to write him off and that was this year. So it wasnt just a gut feeling, but one with some empirical evidence

But as to the "Gut" feeling... I was always struck by how he appeared confident, yet humble and calm. Like a man with a plan.
I hate to derail this thread into a family structure discussion, but I dont think Cowherd was completely wrong when he talks about high level athletes with strong men (Fathers and brothers) in their lives vs those who dont. Use our team as an example

Players who had their fathers in their lives and were role models:
Beal, Otto, and Oubre. All three come off as focused and respectful. They dont have an ounce of coward in them and are known hard workers who dont worry as much about Nightclubs and Instagram as they do about working on their craft.

Players who did not have their fathers in their lives:
Wall and Morris. I love Wall, but both of these guys wear their emotions on their sleeve and are inconsistent. They both enjoy the nightlife and have a hard time with being criticized.
Wall is the talker and will get in peoples face, but im here to tell you... If you put Wall and Beal in a room, Beal's the one coming out alive.

Again, I dont want this to derail the thread and there are always exceptions/outliers. But if im scouting a player, it's something that I take into consideration.

If you were intending to take a shot at Wall's character, work ethic, and focus - I think you're way off base. He was put in the position of carrying this team from day 1 - and I think he's given more effort and shown more heart and a bigger will to win than anyone else on the roster since he's been here. There's almost zero chance that Beal or Porter could have held up to the expectations that were heaped on John if they had to walk in his shoes in their first few years in the NBA.

Character? Not at all. But Wall has generational gifts in regards to size, athleticism, and vision... Neither Beal or Porter do. We have heard a lot about the short comings with Beal and Porter, but they are centralized around physical limitations (Porter is to weak and not explosive while Beal is too small and not athletic enough to overcome that). We have never criticized Wall for anything on the physical front. He has the full tool box, so I would expect him to be the best player.

But I challenge your assertion that taking a shot at Wall's work ethic and focus is "way off base". Wall has consistently come into the season overweight and his focus has proven to be inconsistent (Especially when he's partying the night before as he is keen on doing).
To me, Beal has shown a longer term and more consistent focus in regards to his diet/exercise and the nuances of the game like changing speeds, footwork, spacing.
Again, I love wall and the dedication has shown to such an inept franchise, but there is a reason less physically talented PG's that dont have the natural vision/passing skill set Wall does out work him. Why are Lillard, Lowry, Kemba, and Geroge Hill even in the same conversation as Wall?

Wall has better work ethic than most people on the planet i suspect, but when we talk about Alpha leaders of a professional sports franchise and generational talent, He is not Lebron, Butler, Westbrrok, Kawhi, Curry, Kemba, Paul Geroge, Duncan, Lowry, Wade, Klay, Durant, Kobe, etc in regards to his day in, day out focus.

I also predict that Beal will be the one taking the ball in the final seconds of halves and games starting after the new year

[Ruzious]

I have had faith in Beal from the beginning more or less. Nivek was also quick to point out the timeline to write him off and that was this year. So it wasnt just a gut feeling, but one with some empirical evidence

But as to the "Gut" feeling... I was always struck by how he appeared confident, yet humble and calm. Like a man with a plan.
I hate to derail this thread into a family structure discussion, but I dont think Cowherd was completely wrong when he talks about high level athletes with strong men (Fathers and brothers) in their lives vs those who dont. Use our team as an example

Players who had their fathers in their lives and were role models:
Beal, Otto, and Oubre. All three come off as focused and respectful. They dont have an ounce of coward in them and are known hard workers who dont worry as much about Nightclubs and Instagram as they do about working on their craft.

Players who did not have their fathers in their lives:
Wall and Morris. I love Wall, but both of these guys wear their emotions on their sleeve and are inconsistent. They both enjoy the nightlife and have a hard time with being criticized.
Wall is the talker and will get in peoples face, but im here to tell you... If you put Wall and Beal in a room, Beal's the one coming out alive.

Again, I dont want this to derail the thread and there are always exceptions/outliers. But if im scouting a player, it's something that I take into consideration.

If you were intending to take a shot at Wall's character, work ethic, and focus - I think you're way off base. He was put in the position of carrying this team from day 1 - and I think he's given more effort and shown more heart and a bigger will to win than anyone else on the roster since he's been here. There's almost zero chance that Beal or Porter could have held up to the expectations that were heaped on John if they had to walk in his shoes in their first few years in the NBA.

Character? Not at all. But Wall has generational gifts in regards to size, athleticism, and vision... Neither Beal or Porter do. We have heard a lot about the short comings with Beal and Porter, but they are centralized around physical limitations (Porter is to weak and not explosive while Beal is too small and not athletic enough to overcome that). We have never criticized Wall for anything on the physical front. He has the full tool box, so I would expect him to be the best player.

But I challenge your assertion that taking a shot at Wall's work ethic and focus is "way off base". Wall has consistently come into the season overweight and his focus has proven to be inconsistent (Especially when he's partying the night before as he is keen on doing).
To me, Beal has shown a longer term and more consistent focus in regards to his diet/exercise and the nuances of the game like changing speeds, footwork, spacing.
Again, I love wall and the dedication has shown to such an inept franchise, but there is a reason less physically talented PG's that dont have the natural vision/passing skill set Wall does out work him. Why are Lillard, Lowry, Kemba, and Geroge Hill even in the same conversation as Wall?

You are seriously underrating Beal's physical ability. He is not small, and he's got a very strong build. He also jumps much better than John. John's primary physical gift is primarily his speed - there are plenty of big PGs nowadaze, but he plays below the rim. And I would not call John's vision exceptional for a PG - it's good - he doesn't have any particular physical gift in that regard. What he is is a great competitor with great speed who plays with a lot of aggression and confidence.

By your last sentence in your "I love Wall" paragraph - it's clear that you are - in fact - knocking Wall. And I whole-heartedly disagree with you. None of us know that any of those players out-work John. To state it as a fact seems like... fill in the blank. If all your evidence is a few offseason pictures, that's pretty lame.

[nate33]

This is an interesting debate.

Wall is a heck of a competitor and he gives it his all on the court, so I'm loathe to criticize him. But it is true that he does seem to enjoy the nightlife a bit much during the season, and he has been out of shape in some offseasons. In general, I get the feeling that he loves basketball and loves to compete, but he doesn't necessarily have the type of mental discipline to work on the boring minutia in the offseason that might make him a better player. My guess is that his favorite basketball training drill is to play basketball.

Beal seems to be more disciplined and detail-oriented in his game. He lacks Wall athletic fluidity, but you can tell that he works very hard on boring things like footwork and body positioning in order to help improve his game. That said, I sometimes worry about Beal's mental toughness. He isn't an ice-cold assassin during crunch time, but instead seems to be more likely to miss free throws and clutch shots down the stretch. (In his defense, that's changing a bit this year as he grows more confident in general.)

Basically, I think the perfect basketball attitude would combine Beal's off the court discipline and work ethic with Wall's on the court spirit and competitiveness.

Overall, I think both players have pretty good attitudes. You don't really worry about giving either guy a long term contract because both guys are going to keep working hard (if not always working smart) and try and improve. Most of my complaints are just minor nitpicks. Things could certainly be much, much worse.

[payitforward]

You know... I'm pretty sure none of us has sufficient information to make any real judgments about these issues of character, mental discipline, any of that stuff. And I don't really see, myself, much of what several of you are describing in these young men.

I guess it makes me wonder whether -- if a person thinks something is "a good thing" and a player appears to have that -- then the person might find it natural to attribute what's good about the player to that "thing", whatever it is. Which, obviously, doesn't mean it has anything to do with what's good about the player.

[WizarDynasty]

If you were intending to take a shot at Wall's character, work ethic, and focus - I think you're way off base. He was put in the position of carrying this team from day 1 - and I think he's given more effort and shown more heart and a bigger will to win than anyone else on the roster since he's been here. There's almost zero chance that Beal or Porter could have held up to the expectations that were heaped on John if they had to walk in his shoes in their first few years in the NBA.

Character? Not at all. But Wall has generational gifts in regards to size, athleticism, and vision... Neither Beal or Porter do. We have heard a lot about the short comings with Beal and Porter, but they are centralized around physical limitations (Porter is to weak and not explosive while Beal is too small and not athletic enough to overcome that). We have never criticized Wall for anything on the physical front. He has the full tool box, so I would expect him to be the best player.

But I challenge your assertion that taking a shot at Wall's work ethic and focus is "way off base". Wall has consistently come into the season overweight and his focus has proven to be inconsistent (Especially when he's partying the night before as he is keen on doing).
To me, Beal has shown a longer term and more consistent focus in regards to his diet/exercise and the nuances of the game like changing speeds, footwork, spacing.
Again, I love wall and the dedication has shown to such an inept franchise, but there is a reason less physically talented PG's that dont have the natural vision/passing skill set Wall does out work him. Why are Lillard, Lowry, Kemba, and Geroge Hill even in the same conversation as Wall?

You are seriously underrating Beal's physical ability. He is not small, and he's got a very strong build. He also jumps much better than John. John's primary physical gift is primarily his speed - there are plenty of big PGs nowadaze, but he plays below the rim. And I would not call John's vision exceptional for a PG - it's good - he doesn't have any particular physical gift in that regard. What he is is a great competitor with great speed who plays with a lot of aggression and confidence.

By your last sentence in your "I love Wall" paragraph - it's clear that you are - in fact - knocking Wall. And I whole-heartedly disagree with you. None of us know that any of those players out-work John. To state it as a fact seems like... fill in the blank. If all your evidence is a few offseason pictures, that's pretty lame.

Wall has the most important physical gift in basketball, explosive first step. Rare and elite.

[AFM]

Speaking of explosive first step, bruh, that 12/18/16 recap is crazy! Don't do it to em! DONT DO IT!!!

[DCZards]

If you were intending to take a shot at Wall's character, work ethic, and focus - I think you're way off base. He was put in the position of carrying this team from day 1 - and I think he's given more effort and shown more heart and a bigger will to win than anyone else on the roster since he's been here. There's almost zero chance that Beal or Porter could have held up to the expectations that were heaped on John if they had to walk in his shoes in their first few years in the NBA.

There are certainly pros and cons to growing up without a dad in the home--although that doesn't mean there wasn't a strong male presence or role model in the young man's life. Pcbothwel's argument on the merits of players growing up with a father in the home is very one-sided.

The point made by Ruz above speaks to one of the strengths that can flow from growing up in the kind of home setting that JWall--and many other pro athletes--are raised in. And it's the ability to rise to challenges and deal with difficult situations.

[SizzlinSimms]

I'm curious, is there any stats to how much Beal and Wall have been attacking the rim? I feel they've been doing it a lot more frequently than in the past seasons when they'd settle for that elbow or long 2.

[dangermouse]

I'm curious, is there any stats to how much Beal and Wall have been attacking the rim? I feel they've been doing it a lot more frequently than in the past seasons when they'd settle for that elbow or long 2.

This is what Brooks said he wanted before the season (i think) and it definitely seems like BOTH are playing to their strengths in this area compared to under Wittman. I agree, the eye test says they are driving more and getting good shots at the rim.

[tontoz]

I'm curious, is there any stats to how much Beal and Wall have been attacking the rim? I feel they've been doing it a lot more frequently than in the past seasons when they'd settle for that elbow or long 2.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/walljo01.html

If you page down to the shooting section their percentage of shots is broken down by distance. Free throw attempts are also a good indicator of how often a player takes it to the basket.

Wall's percentage of shots 0-3 feet are up as are his free throw attempts. Ditto for Beal. Pretty clear sign that Brooks is having an effect.

[Darko Miliminutes]

He's going to start getting more calls too. He's establishing himself as marketable for the league. And that'll get you some extra calls.

Nice to have people finally seeing the potential.

seems to me he's showing signs of having learned a few of the veteran
tricks to get himself to the line. His FTAs were inflated yesterday with
the multiple Ts he shot but even so...

I certainly wasn't slighting actual improvement. The things he kept screwing up the past 2 seasons, are the things he's executing on now. That's where the beauty is in watch young players develop. His ability to control the ball well enough now, to actually drive strong, is what's getting him to the line. Becoming a star, and increasing his marketability, will get him even more ft's...was my point.

[Wizardspride]

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[Wizardspride]

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[TheOUTLAW]

Beal sat tonight coaches decision? Wow? What is going on there with him?

[montestewart]

Beal sat tonight coaches decision? Wow? What is going on there with him?

Ankle, mild sprain, day to day

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I'm curious, is there any stats to how much Beal and Wall have been attacking the rim? I feel they've been doing it a lot more frequently than in the past seasons when they'd settle for that elbow or long 2.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/walljo01.html

If you page down to the shooting section their percentage of shots is broken down by distance. Free throw attempts are also a good indicator of how often a player takes it to the basket.

Wall's percentage of shots 0-3 feet are up as are his free throw attempts. Ditto for Beal. Pretty clear sign that Brooks is having an effect.

Yes, coaching up by Brooks. Same starters as last season. Very different shot selection resulting in better efficiency and true shooting by both Wall and Beal.

I'm on board with Scott Brooks despite the slow start.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I have to say that Beal his SHOCKED me.

Ordinarily, guys are who they've always been. It's generally easy to look at their previous production and to extrapolate what their future production will be.

All I will say about Beal is I know the dude is from a praying family. Anything's possible with prayer.

To those not so inclined to believe, let's just say Beal has improved phenomenally.

I have had faith in Beal from the beginning more or less. Nivek was also quick to point out the timeline to write him off and that was this year. So it wasnt just a gut feeling, but one with some empirical evidence

But as to the "Gut" feeling... I was always struck by how he appeared confident, yet humble and calm. Like a man with a plan.
I hate to derail this thread into a family structure discussion, but I dont think Cowherd was completely wrong when he talks about high level athletes with strong men (Fathers and brothers) in their lives vs those who dont. Use our team as an example

Players who had their fathers in their lives and were role models:
Beal, Otto, and Oubre. All three come off as focused and respectful. They dont have an ounce of coward in them and are known hard workers who dont worry as much about Nightclubs and Instagram as they do about working on their craft.

Players who did not have their fathers in their lives:
Wall and Morris. I love Wall, but both of these guys wear their emotions on their sleeve and are inconsistent. They both enjoy the nightlife and have a hard time with being criticized.
Wall is the talker and will get in peoples face, but im here to tell you... If you put Wall and Beal in a room, Beal's the one coming out alive.

Again, I dont want this to derail the thread and there are always exceptions/outliers. But if im scouting a player, it's something that I take into consideration.

If you were intending to take a shot at Wall's character, work ethic, and focus - I think you're way off base. He was put in the position of carrying this team from day 1 - and I think he's given more effort and shown more heart and a bigger will to win than anyone else on the roster since he's been here. There's almost zero chance that Beal or Porter could have held up to the expectations that were heaped on John if they had to walk in his shoes in their first few years in the NBA.

John Wall has impressed the hell out of me, as much off the court as on. He is a man. A good young man. Respectful. Mannerable. Hard-working. Conscientious. Coachable.

Each year he impresses more.

His only issue IMO are his knees. Hopefully, they hold up well over time.