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The Trade Thread, 2016-17 (2.0)

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Re: The Trade Thread, 2016-17 (2.0) 

Post#1921 » by celticfan42487 » Sun Jan 1, 2017 6:41 pm

aim2please wrote:I'm a little late with this one, but there was a lot of talk about Nurkic. He's shown flashes and glimpses his rookie year, but when you take a closer look - he's been terrible so far in his career. Good thing for Denver is that no one watches their games, so a lot of people think that he's a starting level big.

This season, Nuggets are 12.6 points (per 100 poss) better when he sits. They made a run the moment they benched him and went with Jokic. He's a foul and turnover machine. Averaging 6 fouls per 36 minutes, and turning it over 18% of the time. Those two numbers tells you a lot about his feel for the game. He can't make quick decisions and is out of the position a lot.

Dude is such a 'beast' offensively, until you check his stats. His career TS% is .487, 45.7% from the field from a guy that takes 90% of his shots inside 10 feet from the basket. That's pathetic. Average TS% for a center is .550. His RPM numbers are not flattering either.

On the positive side, he's an elite def. rebounder. That's pretty much all he's really good at.

If you can get him for another poop like Rozier, you do it, but giving up anything with higher upside is a waste of assets. He's a net negative right now, not an answer. A realistic trajectory of his career suggest that becoming a Mozgov-type player (inefficient offensively, plus on defense) is close to his ceiling. Nothing wrong with that, but it doesn't move the needle either.


Incredibly informative post that I learned a lot about the player from. Great job!
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Re: The Trade Thread, 2016-17 (2.0) 

Post#1922 » by aim2please » Sun Jan 1, 2017 6:44 pm

SmartWentCrazy wrote:
Spoiler:
aim2please wrote:I'm a little late with this one, but there was a lot of talk about Nurkic. He's shown flashes and glimpses his rookie year, but when you take a closer look - he's been terrible so far in his career. Good thing for Denver is that no one watches their games, so a lot of people think that he's a starting level big.

This season, Nuggets are 12.6 points (per 100 poss) better when he sits. They made a run the moment they benched him and went with Jokic. He's a foul and turnover machine. Averaging 6 fouls per 36 minutes, and turning it over 18% of the time. Those two numbers tells you a lot about his feel for the game. He can't make quick decisions and is out of the position a lot.

Dude is such a 'beast' offensively, until you check his stats. His career TS% is .487, 45.7% from the field from a guy that takes 90% of his shots inside 10 feet from the basket. That's pathetic. Average TS% for a center is .550. His RPM numbers are not flattering either.

On the positive side, he's an elite def. rebounder. That's pretty much all he's really good at.

If you can get him for another poop like Rozier, you do it, but giving up anything with higher upside is a waste of assets. He's a net negative right now, not an answer. A realistic trajectory of his career suggest that becoming a Mozgov-type player (inefficient offensively, plus on defense) is close to his ceiling. Nothing wrong with that, but it doesn't move the needle either.


I agree with everything you said. One question, though-- are his on/off numbers will be naturally skewed because the guy who subs in for him is a stud? Is he an overall neutral player who just looks worse because Jokic is a +10 kind of player?


That's part of it, although they started together for a while - and they were awful. If you want to find a silver lining for why Nuggets can't score when he's on the floor - he shared the floor with Mudiay a lot, who is statistically by far their worst rotational player.

Looking at their line-up +/- numbers, Jokic is a freaking unicorn. And if they wanna win, they should start Nelson and stop playing Faried.
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Re: The Trade Thread, 2016-17 (2.0) 

Post#1923 » by Roddy » Sun Jan 1, 2017 6:52 pm

Doc Rivers is still the GM of LAC right ?

Deandre Jordan and Paul Pierce for Amir, Avery, Jerebko, Nets 1st 2017, LAC 1st 2019.

Not gonna happens, I know...
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Re: The Trade Thread, 2016-17 (2.0) 

Post#1924 » by Homerclease » Sun Jan 1, 2017 6:54 pm

Roddy wrote:Doc Rivers is still the GM of LAC right ?

Deandre Jordan and Paul Pierce for Amir, Avery, Jerebko, Nets 1st 2017, LAC 1st 2019.

Not gonna happens, I know...

A Brooklyn pick for DeAndre Jordan? No effing way man
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Re: The Trade Thread, 2016-17 (2.0) 

Post#1925 » by Roddy » Sun Jan 1, 2017 6:57 pm

Jordan could solve a LOT of our problems you know.

Size, rebounding, blocks, defense...
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Re: The Trade Thread, 2016-17 (2.0) 

Post#1926 » by Homerclease » Sun Jan 1, 2017 7:00 pm

Roddy wrote:Jordan could solve a LOT of our problems you know.

Size, rebounding, blocks, defense...

Sure, but he's not worth a top 3 pick in any draft much less this one. And you have Bradley in the deal too? Kevin Love at his peak in Minnesota didn't net this type of return
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Re: The Trade Thread, 2016-17 (2.0) 

Post#1927 » by Roddy » Sun Jan 1, 2017 7:12 pm

Homerclease wrote:
Roddy wrote:Jordan could solve a LOT of our problems you know.

Size, rebounding, blocks, defense...

Sure, but he's not worth a top 3 pick in any draft much less this one. And you have Bradley in the deal too? Kevin Love at his peak in Minnesota didn't net this type of return


You may be right. I just looked at the Clippers board, they are asking for a trade of DJ lol.

I was wrong about it.
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Re: The Trade Thread, 2016-17 (2.0) 

Post#1928 » by Homerclease » Sun Jan 1, 2017 7:18 pm

Roddy wrote:
Homerclease wrote:
Roddy wrote:Jordan could solve a LOT of our problems you know.

Size, rebounding, blocks, defense...

Sure, but he's not worth a top 3 pick in any draft much less this one. And you have Bradley in the deal too? Kevin Love at his peak in Minnesota didn't net this type of return


You may be right. I just looked at the Clippers board, they are asking for a trade of DJ lol.

I was wrong about it.


I'd be all for going after a Jordan type but I'm not parting with a nets pick to do it. Those nets picks are our best chance to land a true superstar type player. A Curry or a Westbrook level player. To trade that pick for anything less than a top 10 NBA player is a waste of time IMO. I'd rather roll the dice with a Fultz or Giles and hope we get our own homegrown star rather than move the pick for a good but not great player
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Re: The Trade Thread, 2016-17 (2.0) 

Post#1929 » by claycarver » Sun Jan 1, 2017 7:25 pm

Homerclease wrote:I'd be all for going after a Jordan type but I'm not parting with a nets pick to do it. Those nets picks are our best chance to land a true superstar type player. A Curry or a Westbrook level player. To trade that pick for anything less than a top 10 NBA player is a waste of time IMO.


I don't think anyone is even possible until you get down to the Paul George, Jimmy Butler, Demarcus Cousins kind of players. Then even, I think they'll want more than just the BK17 in a trade.

So, would you do that or just hold on to the pick? Personally, I think I'd do it for Cousins. He checks an awful lot of boxes and he does it now instead of 4 or 5 years from now when the BK17 pick would be up to speed.
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Re: The Trade Thread, 2016-17 (2.0) 

Post#1930 » by Homerclease » Sun Jan 1, 2017 7:30 pm

claycarver wrote:
Homerclease wrote:I'd be all for going after a Jordan type but I'm not parting with a nets pick to do it. Those nets picks are our best chance to land a true superstar type player. A Curry or a Westbrook level player. To trade that pick for anything less than a top 10 NBA player is a waste of time IMO.


I don't think anyone is even possible until you get down to the Paul George, Jimmy Butler, Demarcus Cousins kind of players. Then even, I think they'll want more than just the BK17 in a trade.

So, would you do that or just hold on to the pick? Personally, I think I'd do it for Cousins. He checks an awful lot of boxes and he does it now instead of 4 or 5 years from now when the BK17 pick would be up to speed.

Oh it would be in a package that includes one of Avery, Crowder, Smart or Jaylen. Perhaps the pick plus 2 of those guys. But like I said there's maybe 7 or 8 guys in the entire league I'd trade that pick for and nearly all of them are unavailable. Therefore I'm keeping the pick and hoping to draft my own superstar.
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Re: The Trade Thread, 2016-17 (2.0) 

Post#1931 » by claycarver » Sun Jan 1, 2017 7:34 pm

Homerclease wrote:
claycarver wrote:
Homerclease wrote:I'd be all for going after a Jordan type but I'm not parting with a nets pick to do it. Those nets picks are our best chance to land a true superstar type player. A Curry or a Westbrook level player. To trade that pick for anything less than a top 10 NBA player is a waste of time IMO.


I don't think anyone is even possible until you get down to the Paul George, Jimmy Butler, Demarcus Cousins kind of players. Then even, I think they'll want more than just the BK17 in a trade.

So, would you do that or just hold on to the pick? Personally, I think I'd do it for Cousins. He checks an awful lot of boxes and he does it now instead of 4 or 5 years from now when the BK17 pick would be up to speed.

Oh it would be in a package that includes one of Avery, Crowder, Smart or Jaylen. Perhaps the pick plus 2 of those guys. But like I said there's maybe 7 or 8 guys in the entire league I'd trade that pick for and nearly all of them are unavailable. Therefore I'm keeping the pick and hoping to draft my own superstar.


Then we're probably talking about being a good team growing into a great team over the next 6 years when Smart is 28, Brown is 26, and the BK picks are 24/25. Avery and Crowder probably won't be a part of that. IT and Horford definitely won't. Do you start trading off some of the older players for younger contributors in anticipating of hitting that sweet spot when BK17 is mature?
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Re: The Trade Thread, 2016-17 (2.0) 

Post#1932 » by Homerclease » Sun Jan 1, 2017 7:37 pm

claycarver wrote:
Homerclease wrote:
claycarver wrote:
I don't think anyone is even possible until you get down to the Paul George, Jimmy Butler, Demarcus Cousins kind of players. Then even, I think they'll want more than just the BK17 in a trade.

So, would you do that or just hold on to the pick? Personally, I think I'd do it for Cousins. He checks an awful lot of boxes and he does it now instead of 4 or 5 years from now when the BK17 pick would be up to speed.

Oh it would be in a package that includes one of Avery, Crowder, Smart or Jaylen. Perhaps the pick plus 2 of those guys. But like I said there's maybe 7 or 8 guys in the entire league I'd trade that pick for and nearly all of them are unavailable. Therefore I'm keeping the pick and hoping to draft my own superstar.


Then we're probably talking about being a good team growing into a great team over the next 6 years when Smart is 28, Brown is 26, and the BK picks are 24/25. Avery and Crowder probably won't be a part of that. IT and Horford definitely won't. Do you start trading off some of the older players for younger contributors in anticipating of hitting that sweet spot when BK17 is mature?

Why wouldn't they all be a part of it? Pierce Allen and Garnett were all in their 30's when we won the title.
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Re: The Trade Thread, 2016-17 (2.0) 

Post#1933 » by claycarver » Sun Jan 1, 2017 7:44 pm

Homerclease wrote:
claycarver wrote:
Homerclease wrote:Oh it would be in a package that includes one of Avery, Crowder, Smart or Jaylen. Perhaps the pick plus 2 of those guys. But like I said there's maybe 7 or 8 guys in the entire league I'd trade that pick for and nearly all of them are unavailable. Therefore I'm keeping the pick and hoping to draft my own superstar.


Then we're probably talking about being a good team growing into a great team over the next 6 years when Smart is 28, Brown is 26, and the BK picks are 24/25. Avery and Crowder probably won't be a part of that. IT and Horford definitely won't. Do you start trading off some of the older players for younger contributors in anticipating of hitting that sweet spot when BK17 is mature?

Why wouldn't they all be a part of it? Pierce Allen and Garnett were all in their 30's when we won the title.


I could be wrong but I don't see the contracts/production working out. We're talking about the young talent being the core, not the older players like Pierce Allen and Garnett. If we're drafting our superstars, they'll price the older guys out by the time they're ready to lead us to a championship.

Also, I expect IT to be a bright light for a few years but I don't expect what he does to last forever. It requires so much body control and agility. He doesn't have bulk or shiftiness to fall back on as he ages. I think he has a shorter window that Pierce Allen and Garnett.
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Re: The Trade Thread, 2016-17 (2.0) 

Post#1934 » by Gomes3PC » Sun Jan 1, 2017 8:27 pm

Thomas is a good spot up shooter; I could see him move back to a 6th man role later in his career. But yeah, he's probably not going to be a workhorse guy at his size into his mid 30's; small guys in the NBA tend to have a short shelf life.
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Re: The Trade Thread, 2016-17 (2.0) 

Post#1935 » by Homerclease » Sun Jan 1, 2017 8:39 pm

claycarver wrote:
Homerclease wrote:
claycarver wrote:
Then we're probably talking about being a good team growing into a great team over the next 6 years when Smart is 28, Brown is 26, and the BK picks are 24/25. Avery and Crowder probably won't be a part of that. IT and Horford definitely won't. Do you start trading off some of the older players for younger contributors in anticipating of hitting that sweet spot when BK17 is mature?

Why wouldn't they all be a part of it? Pierce Allen and Garnett were all in their 30's when we won the title.


I could be wrong but I don't see the contracts/production working out. We're talking about the young talent being the core, not the older players like Pierce Allen and Garnett. If we're drafting our superstars, they'll price the older guys out by the time they're ready to lead us to a championship.

Also, I expect IT to be a bright light for a few years but I don't expect what he does to last forever. It requires so much body control and agility. He doesn't have bulk or shiftiness to fall back on as he ages. I think he has a shorter window that Pierce Allen and Garnett.

The only one of our current core who's aged himself off the roster in 5 years would be Horford. IT, Crowder and Bradley will be 31-32 years old, hardly fossils and they would make a great supporting cast for our Brooklyn picks
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Re: The Trade Thread, 2016-17 (2.0) 

Post#1936 » by bigfoot_cryptozoology » Sun Jan 1, 2017 9:25 pm

What if? What if? What if, the Clippers break apart after the season, Paul heads off to the Knicks,
and Griffin is available to sign with the Celts? It's a bit of a long shot and the Lakers and Oklahoma
would probably be favored for his services, but what if, Ainge sold Griffin on the idea of the Celtics adding Hayward to
the team too - so Ainge moves out Crowder, Bradley, Smart, Rozier, Yabu, Mickey via deals for Future picks,
lets Olynyk go off into Free Agency... Is it possible to create enough Cap Space to bring both Griffin and Hayward
onboard?

Because the team would be fantastic - Horford - Griffin - Brown - Hayward - IT - Franchise Player in the Draft...
what's not to like about that? And it would be easy enough to fill in the backup positions with Zizic and ring chasers...
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Re: The Trade Thread, 2016-17 (2.0) 

Post#1937 » by Andrew McCeltic » Sun Jan 1, 2017 10:17 pm

At this point you might get Jordan for something surprising, like Crowder, Zeller, Jerebko, Zizic, MEM 1st..
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Re: The Trade Thread, 2016-17 (2.0) 

Post#1938 » by 165bows » Sun Jan 1, 2017 11:00 pm

Roddy wrote:
Homerclease wrote:
Roddy wrote:Jordan could solve a LOT of our problems you know.

Size, rebounding, blocks, defense...

Sure, but he's not worth a top 3 pick in any draft much less this one. And you have Bradley in the deal too? Kevin Love at his peak in Minnesota didn't net this type of return


You may be right. I just looked at the Clippers board, they are asking for a trade of DJ lol.

I was wrong about it.

Great under the radar trade would be to throw a couple seconds towards LA to help them get whatever retread stop-gap vet LAC is looking for in return for them lowering the protections on the 2019 first. If injuries or FA breaks the wrong way that could pay big dividends for a small price.
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Re: The Trade Thread, 2016-17 (2.0) 

Post#1939 » by titlebound1 » Mon Jan 2, 2017 12:37 am

Millsap and Korver are both allegedly available. I wouldn't touch Millsap even though he's by far the better player. But Korver could add a little bit of a punch off the bench for us. Terry hasn't been playing and the minutes are going to Green. Have to think that Korver would be an upgrade
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Re: The Trade Thread, 2016-17 (2.0) 

Post#1940 » by Tiny ball » Mon Jan 2, 2017 9:19 am

Homerclease wrote:
claycarver wrote:
Homerclease wrote:Why wouldn't they all be a part of it? Pierce Allen and Garnett were all in their 30's when we won the title.


I could be wrong but I don't see the contracts/production working out. We're talking about the young talent being the core, not the older players like Pierce Allen and Garnett. If we're drafting our superstars, they'll price the older guys out by the time they're ready to lead us to a championship.

Also, I expect IT to be a bright light for a few years but I don't expect what he does to last forever. It requires so much body control and agility. He doesn't have bulk or shiftiness to fall back on as he ages. I think he has a shorter window that Pierce Allen and Garnett.

The only one of our current core who's aged himself off the roster in 5 years would be Horford. IT, Crowder and Bradley will be 31-32 years old, hardly fossils and they would make a great supporting cast for our Brooklyn picks
Crowder can't move now.

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