Nurkic: "I don't see my future in Denver"

[Nuggets_Talk]

Ainge is so greedy in his deals he ends up wasting assets and screwing himself.

For example?

shopping the last #3 pick. everyone knows ainge asks for the world. I think he got spoiled by the brooklyn trade. now he thinks every deal has to be a steal for boston - no wonder he cant get another trade done. takes two teams.

if this current team ends up winning it all, he was right. otherwise he is good at acquiring assets but not using them.

[Nuggets_Talk]

Anyway, let myself get sidetracked. Came here to see what Denver fans were saying about Nurkic. Just like with Philly and Noel, I figure it's a longshot cause we're not likely to meet Denver's asking price. But, like cl2117, I also figure we'll put ourselves in the mix just in case bidding stays tepid for some reason, and just tip our caps and bow out when it gets too rich. Rozier, MEM 1st, Zizic is definitely too rich for me.

jesus. thats basically nothing in return for denver. maybe zizic ends up being as good as nurkic down the road. small chance he becomes a star or anything close to it. not implying nurkic will be a star either but what the hell will we do with 2 guys who wont play and a bad pick?

id hate to see what you think is a fair offer

[Nuggets_Talk]

With Nurkic' still on his rookie contract and with RFA ahead, it's obvious we're not in a desperation mode many posters are anticipating/desiring. I do think we'll try to accommodate him but only if the offers is enticing to the Nuggets. These low-ball offers are just poster wet dreams IMO.

How is the MEM pick and a solid prospect in Rozier a low ball offer for a guy like Nurkic that is likely a back-up at best in a really good team, or a really low usage guy anyway even if he starts that doesnt fit your best player, neither is going to be all that valuable due to the current excess of quality bigs in the league?
Quality bigs are easily attainable at this point, Nurkic is good and I was on him way before nobody in the whole internet, there's proof about this, BUT, you can't just get around his issues offensively and the current value non-flexible players like him offer.

oh comeon. if rozier is a "solid prospect" then how is nurkic "likely a backup"?

give me a break with that logic.

and the memphis pick will be a late first.

"quality bigs are easily attainable?" yeah just go pick up a couple whenever you need them

[Nuggets_Talk]

Cl2117, I do appreciate the courtesy and care you offer that most other BOS fans don't, I wanted to reply accordingly. Well, I still think the Nuggets would "ask" for him, they have had really good success with Euro bigs. But I really have a hard time with the Rozier offer being bandied around (I think he's not that good) but he could be a decent backup, yet to be determined. Then you have the Nuggets waiting two more years for the main piece, The MIN 2nd is better than the Cav's or Clips 2nd that was offered by the other BOS fan. Personally, I feel the arrogance of those low-ball offers as being just ridiculous, but I see that same kind of crap offers on a lot of forums. Funny, Nuggets players are wanted by other clubs but posters here feel we're pushovers and will accept crap....just not the case.

Sorry if I come across, disgruntled, but that bad loss to PHI didn't reall sit well with me...you're welcome btw !

You are doing the same stuff you complain about when you ask for that type of value for Nurkic from BOS, and I am no C's fan, try to be what you preach before you criticize anybody.

Whether in the BOS forum or here I am not going to let anyone tell me that a low-ball offer is good for my Nuggets players. Rozier hasn't lit up the league, it's not like I asked for a BKN pick and to be offered a LAC or CAV's 2nd is ridiculous, might as well off a top 55 protected 2nd. If Nurkic were to be traded to BOS he'd surely be a starter there, so you're advocating a backup PG, a draft pick 2 years away and a late 2ns is good value for a promising young C.....get utta here with that crap. If you want value, give value ...it fills a need for BOS, not for DEN.

And you have a lot of nerve given how you put out some of the worst mock drafts I've seen. Just because you're in love with your Euro players you put them in unrealistic draft position, they're pathetic, yet you stand by them ....pot meet kettle, you're not worthy of preaching to anybody !!!

boston fans overrate their guys and down play the guys they are trading for to try and justify clearly bad trade ideas. its the only way they have even have this discussion.

they havent even offered a single quality asset for us (guys who wont get off our bench or bad picks arent exactly what we need) and then say its still too much!

[SMTBSI]

Ainge is so greedy in his deals he ends up wasting assets and screwing himself.

For example?

shopping the last #3 pick. everyone knows ainge asks for the world. I think he got spoiled by the brooklyn trade. now he thinks every deal has to be a steal for boston - no wonder he cant get another trade done. takes two teams.

if this current team ends up winning it all, he was right. otherwise he is good at acquiring assets but not using them.

I don't understand how keeping and selecting the #3 pick is an example of "wasting assets and screwing himself". Keeping a top pick and injecting young talent into your squad should always be the default action, unless someone makes you an offer you can't refuse.

Anyway, I saw it the exact opposite way: we were getting lowballed (Noel, Covington, #24, #26. Really?), and when we didn't let ourselves get taken, the parties that were trying to take us became petulant.

Can you give me an example of a reported deal you think we should have made? One that it was greedy to turn down?

[SMTBSI]

Anyway, let myself get sidetracked. Came here to see what Denver fans were saying about Nurkic. Just like with Philly and Noel, I figure it's a longshot cause we're not likely to meet Denver's asking price. But, like cl2117, I also figure we'll put ourselves in the mix just in case bidding stays tepid for some reason, and just tip our caps and bow out when it gets too rich. Rozier, MEM 1st, Zizic is definitely too rich for me.

jesus. thats basically nothing in return for denver. maybe zizic ends up being as good as nurkic down the road. small chance he becomes a star or anything close to it. not implying nurkic will be a star either but what the hell will we do with 2 guys who wont play and a bad pick?

id hate to see what you think is a fair offer

You misunderstood me. For one, I admitted that Rozier was not useful for you, so a third team would almost certainly be required. For two, I admitted that I'd come in low - my assumption is that Boston will throw their hat in the ring just in case, but bow out if the bidding gets serious.

Anyway, I very much disagree about the Memphis pick being a bad pick. I seem to value that more highly than most Boston fans (more than Zizic, for example). I can easily see Memphis falling apart by 2019, and then spending a few years trying to be bad enough to not convey it (a la the current Lakers). Could be very distant gratification (as far out as 2021), but I'm hoping we hold on to it at least long enough to see how Memphis trends.


In any case, isn't the assumption that Denver would prefer win-now pieces over distant future picks and kids? If Nurkic to Boston ever became a serious possibility, it would pretty much have to be a three-teamer, no?

[Nuggets_Talk]

For example?

shopping the last #3 pick. everyone knows ainge asks for the world. I think he got spoiled by the brooklyn trade. now he thinks every deal has to be a steal for boston - no wonder he cant get another trade done. takes two teams.

if this current team ends up winning it all, he was right. otherwise he is good at acquiring assets but not using them.

I don't understand how keeping and selecting the #3 pick is an example of "wasting assets and screwing himself". Keeping a top pick and injecting young talent into your squad should always be the default action, unless someone makes you an offer you can't refuse.

Anyway, I saw it the exact opposite way: we were getting lowballed (Noel, Covington, #24, #26. Really?), and when we didn't let ourselves get taken, the parties that were trying to take us became petulant.

Can you give me an example of a reported deal you think we should have made? One that it was greedy to turn down?

neither of us know what deals were offered and rejected.

so I should stop assuming ainge turned down lots of deals and just focus my attention on the awful deals boston fans offer/expect.

[Nuggets_Talk]

Anyway, let myself get sidetracked. Came here to see what Denver fans were saying about Nurkic. Just like with Philly and Noel, I figure it's a longshot cause we're not likely to meet Denver's asking price. But, like cl2117, I also figure we'll put ourselves in the mix just in case bidding stays tepid for some reason, and just tip our caps and bow out when it gets too rich. Rozier, MEM 1st, Zizic is definitely too rich for me.

jesus. thats basically nothing in return for denver. maybe zizic ends up being as good as nurkic down the road. small chance he becomes a star or anything close to it. not implying nurkic will be a star either but what the hell will we do with 2 guys who wont play and a bad pick?

id hate to see what you think is a fair offer

You misunderstood me. For one, I admitted that Rozier was not useful for you, so a third team would almost certainly be required. For two, I admitted that I'd come in low - my assumption is that Boston will throw their hat in the ring just in case, but bow out if the bidding gets serious.

Anyway, I very much disagree about the Memphis pick being a bad pick. I seem to value that more highly than most Boston fans (more than Zizic, for example). I can easily see Memphis falling apart by 2019, and then spending a few years trying to be bad enough to not convey it (a la the current Lakers). Could be very distant gratification (as far out as 2021), but I'm hoping we hold on to it at least long enough to see how Memphis trends.

lots of assumptions there.

if you hang onto the memphis pick and they dont fall apart, itll lose more value over time.

I certainly wouldnt want to give up nurkic so that maybe 2 years from now we get a decent pick who may become as good as nurkic. I feel like getting a mid first rounder in 2019 is a deal we take when we become desperate to move nurkic down the line.

In any case, isn't the assumption that Denver would prefer win-now pieces over distant future picks and kids? If Nurkic to Boston ever became a serious possibility, it would pretty much have to be a three-teamer, no?

yeah most likely.

I do have to admit, I like this "homecourt advantage". discussion on the boston board often become very immature and hostile to any opposing opinions. i like when boston fans come here to discuss. they have to be much nicer.

[SMTBSI]

if you hang onto the memphis pick and they dont fall apart, itll lose more value over time.

This is true for any asset. For example, if we'd traded the #28 pick that became RJ Hunter before it became RJ Hunter, it would have had more value than a busted RJ Hunter. On the other hand, if we'd traded the '17 BRK pick during the offseason, we'd be regretting it hard right now.

In this case, I find it less likely that Memphis will still be competitive by 2019 than that they're regressing/rebuilding. So I'm wagering that that pick increases in value substantially.

I'd also argue that in general the pick has more room to grow in value than fall. If our prospective trade partners value it as "nothing much" right now, which you are telling us you do, then it can only lose so much value from there - the worst it can fall to is pick #30, after all. On the other hand, if Memphis regresses, it could gain a large amount of value.

That's my read, anyway. I think it would be short-sighted to move it this early.

I certainly wouldnt want to give up nurkic so that maybe 2 years from now we get a decent pick who may become as good as nurkic. I feel like getting a mid first rounder in 2019 is a deal we take when we become desperate to move nurkic down the line.

It's not unreasonable that two teams could rationally value the same asset very differently. Boston can afford to wait on the Memphis pick maturing, since we have so many other picks in the meantime. For us, the upside is what's important. For Denver, maybe it's just a super distant pick that won't help them any time soon. Just another reason why I think it would have to be a three-teamer.

[SMTBSI]

I guess I should also admit that I tend to value picks more heavily than most. My preferred path has always been to keep and select all of the Brooklyn picks, unless someone blew us away with an offer.

With the way rookie contracts are structured in the NBA, I just figure it's always a safe default to keep your picks, unless you're getting a sweetheart deal, or there's a compelling fit or timeline reason the pick has diminished value for you.

[Dzon Dilindzer]

Hmmm, they do have a couple of younger players, perhaps the most interesting is Dorian Finney-Smith. Not sure that's a straight up trade. They could perhaps add a young big or more likely a draft pick. Still not sure about that trade though. Someone else might feel differently.

would Nuggets take Bogut as part of a trade for Nurkic

[skywalker33]

Hmmm, they do have a couple of younger players, perhaps the most interesting is Dorian Finney-Smith. Not sure that's a straight up trade. They could perhaps add a young big or more likely a draft pick. Still not sure about that trade though. Someone else might feel differently.

would Nuggets take Bogut as part of a trade for Nurkic

Don't think the Nuggets would have a desire for Bogut as he doesn't fill a need anymore than Nurkic. Perhaps if he goes to a third team

[The Rebel]

Hmmm, they do have a couple of younger players, perhaps the most interesting is Dorian Finney-Smith. Not sure that's a straight up trade. They could perhaps add a young big or more likely a draft pick. Still not sure about that trade though. Someone else might feel differently.

would Nuggets take Bogut as part of a trade for Nurkic

I would not mind Bogut, but would basically consider him an zero value add in. Not a negative but not really much of a positive either. What about a deal line

Bogut
Finney-Smith
and a protected future 1st round pick

for
Nurkic

And you can have Gee or he could be cut?

[skywalker33]

Nurkic had another nice game, does anyone have Malone's or TC's email, I want to show him I'm not the only with this thought:

http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nba/2383/jusuf-nurkic

[snowman]

Let me try again:

Miami sends
Dragic to Denver
Miami gets:
Nelson from Denver
Zeller and Young from Boston
Future 1st (lotto protected) 2019 pick from LA Clippers

Denver gets:
Dragic from Miami
Future 1st (lotto protected) 2019 pick from Memphis
Denver sends:
Nelson to Miami
Nurkic to Boston

Boston gets:
Nurkic from Denver
Boston sends:
Zeller and Young to Miami
Future Clipps 1st to Denver
Future Memphis 1st to Miami

[skywalker33]

Let me try again:

Miami sends
Dragic to Denver
Miami gets:
Nelson from Denver
Zeller and Young from Boston
Future 1st (lotto protected) 2019 pick from LA Clippers

Denver gets:
Dragic from Miami
Future 1st (lotto protected) 2019 pick from Memphis
Denver sends:
Nelson to Miami
Nurkic to Boston

Boston gets:
Nurkic from Denver
Boston sends:
Zeller and Young to Miami
Future Clipps 1st to Denver
Future Memphis 1st to Miami

BOS fantasies don't belong here, this is heavily weighted towards the Celtis needs, no one else's. Easy NO !!! Nurkic alone is worth the MEM 1st (without the protections). DEN has no need for Dragic with Mudiay and Murray capable of manning the PG position.

BTW, if your going to do it, make sure the 1sts go to all the right places, You have the Clippers pick going to DEN one place and the MEM pick going to DEN another

[NuggetsWY]

Let me try again:

Miami sends
Dragic to Denver
Miami gets:
Nelson from Denver
Zeller and Young from Boston
Future 1st (lotto protected) 2019 pick from LA Clippers

Denver gets:
Dragic from Miami
Future 1st (lotto protected) 2019 pick from Memphis
Denver sends:
Nelson to Miami
Nurkic to Boston

Boston gets:
Nurkic from Denver
Boston sends:
Zeller and Young to Miami
Future Clipps 1st to Denver
Future Memphis 1st to Miami

I'm betting Denver doesn't even consider this - it meets no needs and costs a good young talent. Although a future first might be nice. But with Dragic signed for 4 years, just not sure it's worth Denver's trouble. He's going to want to play and Mudiay/Murray need to play.

I'm not sure Miami would like this deal. Nelson is NOT an adequate replacement for Dragic, not even close. Zeller would be an OK backup for Whiteside but Miami already has four SGs and Young hasn't shown much yet, he'd be their 5th string SG. Just doesn't seem to move the interest scale here.

Sorry to rain on your parade - nice try.

[snowman]

you know, Boston fans are not the only one's who think their players are worth more than others teams fans do ALL teams fans do, so don't gat so high and mighty thinking you don't. Just trying to have and honest discussion here. If you don't like the idea, fine, but no need to try and place your views so much higher than everyone else's

[skywalker33]

you know, Boston fans are not the only one's who think their players are worth more than others teams fans do ALL teams fans do, so don't gat so high and mighty thinking you don't. Just trying to have and honest discussion here. If you don't like the idea, fine, but no need to try and place your views so much higher than everyone else's

If you want to discuss a trade on another teams forum, perhaps you'd at least try to find one that doesn't just benefit YOUR team...but that's just my opinion.

[skywalker33]

If we do trade Nurkic and we don't get a C back, doesn't that kinda lend to the theory that Faried is staying ?? or can DA play backup C ?