Trade Thread 2017: Not Once, Not twice, But Thrice!

[Andrew McCeltic]

Two years ago Lawson may have had *more* trade value than Giannis..

Absolutely not. Even two years ago, everyone knew that Lawson had a drinking problem.

Maybe your sources... I think he had one DUI the summer before.

[Curmudgeon]

Two years ago Lawson may have had *more* trade value than Giannis..

Absolutely not. Even two years ago, everyone knew that Lawson had a drinking problem.

Maybe your sources... I think he had one DUI the summer before.

There were two DUIs, leading to a stint in alcohol rehab. The problems went all the way back to his years at UNC. http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/13367938/nba-ty-lawson-battle-addiction

[VeryMuchWoke]

Denver fans value Nurkic way more than that. One on the trade board argued that Nurkic was worth more than the BKN18 pick. Their very wrong about him, but that's their prerogative.

They don't get it and never will. Nuggets are in one of the worst situations of any team in the league. With role playing, cap-clogging vets, and 4th tier young prospects, they are on track to be in 20th place from now until the end of time.

TBH, I'd love for him to fail (look at my location again if you don't understand why), but Jokić is a legit All-star talent.

Put him on a good team and everyone will suddenly realize that it's important for Centers to perform on the defensive end of the floor. Don't get me wrong, he's still young, and a nice prospect, but far from a sure-fire starter on a good team at this point.

[Captain_Caveman]

Danilo Gallinari, Jusuf Nurkic for Tyler Zeller and Jaylen Brown??? Close???or nah???

Not close. We don't value Nurkic remotely similar to how you do, and Gallo is an FA in 40 games. Strong pass.

Boston wants to trade for stars, not just 'good' players. We're not going to trade one of our three best assets for another 'good' player that makes us no more competitive with Toronto, let alone Cleveland or Golden State.

What's really troubling with Nurkic is his lack of improvement. Notably, his ft % has gone from .636 to .616 to a low of .524 this year. Similarly his block and steal rate has dropped while turnovers have gone up every year. Based on this it seems that he is not a hard worker which is probably why Denver wants to get rid of him. Also, it doesn't make sense to spend any assets on him when we have an better player in Zizic coming in next year who has been lauded for his competitiveness and work ethic.

Looks like a doughy slob to me.

[jfs1000d]

Denver fans value Nurkic way more than that. One on the trade board argued that Nurkic was worth more than the BKN18 pick. Their very wrong about him, but that's their prerogative.

No fan base has a higher opinion of their players than Denver fans.

Up there with Knick fans in their levels of unfounded homerism.

Luckily, fans don't make trades. Serious, if they want a hail for their players, why aren't they winning?

In fact, why do people win when they are with us but suck elsewhere? Hmm. I want guys at our price. AInge is under no pressure to beat the Cavs this year. We make moves that make sense now that won't hurt any future move. I want Nurkic, but not giving up the house. We aren't that desperate.




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[Writebloc]

To Tyler Zeller on eve of him being available to be traded! Cheers, let's hope your contract brings Danny back a viable player.

[Valid]

Give Denver Brad Stevens and they're above .500.

Nurkic is comparable to Smart in defensive/offensive stats, but he's not being well-developed. Mudiay and Murray are as good as any young player in our pipeline, in terms of raw ability and upside. And Jokic is very good.

Like, a lot depends on context, system, role, usage, development.

I don't understand why Denver hasn't done a full rebuild (Gallo, Faried, Chandler out) when they're losing so much anyway. But their young players are all solid - if Murray, Mudiay or Jokic were in Boston you'd all be hyping the sh*t out of them, or hyping their trade value.

You're either overrating the impact of head coaches or overrating Denver's roster in general.

- They are arguably the worst defensive team in the league.

- Saying Nurkic is "comparable to Smart in defensive stats" is weird, to say the least. They play two completely different positions. Also, in terms of defensive value overall, Nurkic isn't even in Smart's stratosphere.

- Mudiay is absolutely not as good as "any young player in our pipeline." People here complain about Smart's shooting, but Mudiay is even worse, and he takes more shots. He also has a -12.7 net rating on a 15-23 team. If he were on the Celtics, this entire board would want to ship him out on the next bus. I mean, for God's sake, this board crucified Rondo for the things Mudiay does (or can't do), and Mudiay is that x10.

Jokic is awesome and I have been a big fan of Murray ever since his days at Kentucky, but you're overrating everyone else.

[ConstableGeneva]

To Tyler Zeller on eve of him being available to be traded! Cheers, let's hope your contract brings Danny back a viable player.

A toast!

[yeahM8]

Toasty!

[Writebloc]

Read on Twitter

Dammit! Looks like Celtic's fan will have to cross Melo off our wishlist.

[SparringPartner]

Read on Twitter

Dammit! Looks like Celtic's fan will have to cross Melo off our wishlist.

Umm....thank the heavens....

[SparringPartner]

No reason for the Knicks to do this right? Maybe save a couple of $$$'s. Not really many other options for a NYK & LAC trade.

[SparringPartner]

I don't think the Cav's are giving up T.Thompson, but....

[Andrew McCeltic]

Give Denver Brad Stevens and they're above .500.

Nurkic is comparable to Smart in defensive/offensive stats, but he's not being well-developed. Mudiay and Murray are as good as any young player in our pipeline, in terms of raw ability and upside. And Jokic is very good.

Like, a lot depends on context, system, role, usage, development.

I don't understand why Denver hasn't done a full rebuild (Gallo, Faried, Chandler out) when they're losing so much anyway. But their young players are all solid - if Murray, Mudiay or Jokic were in Boston you'd all be hyping the sh*t out of them, or hyping their trade value.

You're either overrating the impact of head coaches or overrating Denver's roster in general.

- They are arguably the worst defensive team in the league.

- Saying Nurkic is "comparable to Smart in defensive stats" is weird, to say the least. They play two completely different positions. Also, in terms of defensive value overall, Nurkic isn't even in Smart's stratosphere.

- Mudiay is absolutely not as good as "any young player in our pipeline." People here complain about Smart's shooting, but Mudiay is even worse, and he takes more shots. He also has a -12.7 net rating on a 15-23 team. If he were on the Celtics, this entire board would want to ship him out on the next bus. I mean, for God's sake, this board crucified Rondo for the things Mudiay does (or can't do), and Mudiay is that x10.

Jokic is awesome and I have been a big fan of Murray ever since his days at Kentucky, but you're overrating everyone else.

I'm thinking of Stevens' coaching exclusively - and Mike Malone is a good coach, but I think Brad would get more out of the vets and use them to stabilize the systems and rotations.

And you think Jokic is awesome and like Murray - so we disagree about Mudiay and Nurkic..

Mudiay is still only 20, and he's getting a ton of usage he's not ready for, to try to force feed him experience. I think that can work, and that we wouldn't have seen Avery Bradley become this good and comfortable handling the ball if he hadn't had that rocky point guard year. Mudiay's shooting percentages are comparable to Smart's - without the defensive impact - and we're seeing now moving to the halfway point of his third year how Smart is finally starting to become competent offensively. It takes time. It's also not fair to call Mudiay Smart without the defense, because he's a different player with different offensive potential. But he's a solid, raw prospect.

And Nurkic is going to be traded, and he's had bad luck. Yeah, he plays a different position, but if anything his defensive impact as a center can be bigger than Smart's. And his peak advanced stats on defense from his rookie year (at 19!) reflect that. He's still that player, but he doesn't have the net positive offensive influence that Jokic does.

Denver doesn't have the same young assets as LA or Boston or Philadelphia- but they're in the second tier, pretty much alone - with Phoenix, Orlando in the third.

[Andrew McCeltic]

Watching Philly/Washington replay - Okafor started, had 9 points, 3 rebounds in the first seven minutes, drew two quick fouls on Gortat and sent him to the bench. Philly announcer comments that the defense looked just as good as it did with Embiid. And Okafor scoring within the flow of the offense, not holding the ball too long.

I know we're drooling at max cap space, and now we like Zizic, but Jesus, can't we just go get Okafor? Jackson/Yabu/1st? Rozier/Yabu? Just drew another foul while I'm watching... Looking like he's checking every box but team defense and jump shooting, and only 21. Clear potential future all-star, but Embiid is a superstar.

Noel is going to get there, too, except he'll be there in free agency, and his defensive intensity and awareness still haven't risen to the level of his ability.

Like, Rozier isn't playing much, Yabu probably isn't LJ/Barkley 2.0, Jackson is a nice prospect we're hiding.

IT/Smart/Jackson
Bradley/Green
Crowder/Brown/Jerebko/Young
Horford/Olynyk/Mickey
Amir/Okafor/Zeller

Plus Zizic, BKN 17/18, and max cap space.

Is Okafor the final answer? Maybe not. But it upgrades the roster, and doesn't hurt anything else we want to do. Probably makes future moves easier - Smart, Bradley and IT can all play off-ball, so if we're in a position to have to draft another guard, it's not a crisis - Jackson or Tatum slots in, or Giles, to that distribution of talent.

[Andrew McCeltic]

Like, f*ck, you give this guy the ball anywhere inside the three point line and he can get to the rim, looks like a tall Paul Pierce doing it. He's not Al Jefferson, or Tim Duncan, there's a raw offensive dynamism and creativity neither of those guys had.

[FlatearthZorro]

Read on Twitter

Dammit! Looks like Celtic's fan will have to cross Melo off our wishlist.

Thank GOD!

I can't stand this chucking slob. He's a fake superstar, has been a fake supersar his whole career- empty stats all the way. People comparing him to Pierce made me laugh. Its not even close.

[FlatearthZorro]

Watching Philly/Washington replay - Okafor started, had 9 points, 3 rebounds in the first seven minutes, drew two quick fouls on Gortat and sent him to the bench. Philly announcer comments that the defense looked just as good as it did with Embiid. And Okafor scoring within the flow of the offense, not holding the ball too long.

I know we're drooling at max cap space, and now we like Zizic, but Jesus, can't we just go get Okafor? Jackson/Yabu/1st? Rozier/Yabu? Just drew another foul while I'm watching... Looking like he's checking every box but team defense and jump shooting, and only 21. Clear potential future all-star, but Embiid is a superstar.

Noel is going to get there, too, except he'll be there in free agency, and his defensive intensity and awareness still haven't risen to the level of his ability.

Like, Rozier isn't playing much, Yabu probably isn't LJ/Barkley 2.0, Jackson is a nice prospect we're hiding.

IT/Smart/Jackson
Bradley/Green
Crowder/Brown/Jerebko/Young
Horford/Olynyk/Mickey
Amir/Okafor/Zeller

Plus Zizic, BKN 17/18, and max cap space.

Is Okafor the final answer? Maybe not. But it upgrades the roster, and doesn't hurt anything else we want to do. Probably makes future moves easier - Smart, Bradley and IT can all play off-ball, so if we're in a position to have to draft another guard, it's not a crisis - Jackson or Tatum slots in, or Giles, to that distribution of talent.

Makes a ton of sense, another scoring oriented, bad rebounding, bad defending center- the upgraded version of Zeller.

[Andrew McCeltic]

Then get Noel, who defends and rebounds - Zizic is physical and can board, but he's not going to match Noel in positional D, and it's not smart to bank on one rookie who hasn't played a minute in the NBA.

Re: Okafor, the mistake is that we're close enough to think in terms of fit/need, and imagine getting Hayward and then Cousins or Deandre or Drummond or whoever.

It never hurts to upgrade your talent level and long term upside. Rozier/Yabu (cap neutral) aren't better fits than Okafor. Like, we trade one of our four point guards for a center? What a crisis.

You can view Okafor as an incremental upgrade to our overall talent level, who may be a long term fit, without slotting him in as a finished product and definitive center who will curse us with a decade of mediocre rebounding and awful defense.

[Andrew McCeltic]

Rozier/Yabu for Okafor doesn't even hurt us short-term, you can fill Rozier's minutes, and Okafor blends into the rotation without hurting you, could be the IT of the second unit, the go-to offensive engine. That's his floor.

Or if you want Noel, do it in a cap neutral way.