Fake Trade Thread 16/17 pt.1

[Eoghan]

Ricky Rubio is available. The problem is, I am not sure how much of an upgrade he is over Sessions. Neither one shoots very well, especially from three (you may have to add filters):

http://stats.nba.com/vs/#!?PlayerID=201937&VsPlayerID=201196&Season=2016-17&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&PerMode=Per36

I'm so sorry, I had no idea you were visually impaired; that must be tough. No wonder you're a Hornets fan.


(I like Sessions but Rubio is a significant upgrade. For example, Rubio is smart enough to never pass to Hibbert, ever.)

What the hell? Sessions is shooting 39%, Rubio 37.3%. Sessions is hitting 29.4% from three, Rubio 24.7%. You think Rubio is an upgrade? Another point guard who can't shoot? Another point guard who is too poor to play alongside Kemba Walker? Who scores less than 2/3 as many points per 36 minutes as Sessions?

No.

And for the record, I am hearing impaired. Go insult someone else.

I was yanking your chain, don't be a silly billy. They both can't shoot so it's a push there. Ramon isn't tanking our ability to win games b/c he can't shoot, it's b/c he can't do anything but occasionally draw a foul attacking the basket. Rubio is a much better defender and a much better facilitator. It's not my fault Clifford's only improvisation in lineups is to play stupid dual PGs.

[Vanderbilt_Grad]

Rubio is an upgrade even if his shooting isn't great. He can start in a pinch and can play on the ball while Kemba plays off, similar to last year with Lin. Rubio is also a better defender than Sessions IMHO. What intrigues me is mention that Shabazz Muhammad could be included.

With all that said it's not worth breaking the bank to get them. I'm willing to trade MKG in some scenarios but at that point I'm thinking about asking for a pick swap or something more. I'm pretty comfortable with Sessions + Hibbert + one of Beli or Lamb.

Honestly though if I were the Wolves I would be trying to get Miami to swap Dragic for Rubio and a pick. That would solve a lot of their problems.

[SWedd523]

Rubio has no place on this team

[Braggins]

I honestly think Rubio would be at least a solid fit in Clifford's system. Yes, he can't shoot or finish well, but he has many other qualities that Clifford likes. He has good length for his position. Hes a good individual defender. He can defend SG's and theoretically play with Kemba. Hes smart on both sides of the ball with good natural instincts. Hes creative on offense and can create opportunities for others. He can run an offense. He actually has pretty much elite vision and passing.

Hes certainly a flawed player and not all that great or anything, but hes not any more flawed than anyone on the team except Kemba and Batum (both of whom are at least still somewhat flawed) and hes locked up for a couple years on a pretty cheap contract. I'm not saying hes ideal, but hed still be a huge upgrade over Sessions and its possible his efficiency would improve playing on a winning team with a good system already in place. I think he would have great chemistry on the second unit with Lamb and Marco. Rubio/Marco/Lamb/Frank/Hawes, actually seems like a pretty sneaky good second unit for Clifford. The defense would be shaky, but they would score a lot of points and keep the pace going.

I'd be all about getting Rubio if the price is right.

[Snidely FC]

The Denver Nuggets seem like a good trade partner for MKG. With Gary Harris, Jamal Murray, Will Barton & Malik Beasley at SG, they have a plethora of young shooters so could stand to trade for a wing defender with upside. They're looking to try to meet the NBA salary floor. I assume DEN sees Gary Harris as their starting SG and Jokic as untouchable going forward so have not included them. I also hate Fairied's contract, though I would probably consider him if a young player like Beasley or Nurkic was attached. I assume it would take more than MKG to get Gallinari at this point, and wonder if with MKS's play this season we may have to add an '18 1st to some of these?:

Will Barton + Jusuf Nurkic
Wilson Chandler + Jusuf Nurkic
Wilson Chandler + Malik Beasley
Jusuf Nurkic + Malik Beasley
Danilo Gallinari + Malik Beasley
MKG + Hibbert (or Hawes) for Gallinari + Nurkic

[Vanderbilt_Grad]

The Denver Nuggets seem like a good trade partner for MKG. With Gary Harris, Jamal Murray, Will Barton & Malik Beasley at SG, they have a plethora of young shooters so could stand to trade for a wing defender with upside. They're looking to try to meet the NBA salary floor. I assume DEN sees Gary Harris as their starting SG and Jokic as untouchable going forward so have not included them. I also hate Fairied's contract, though I would probably consider him if a young player like Beasley or Nurkic was attached. I assume it would take more than MKG to get Gallinari at this point, and wonder if with MKS's play this season we may have to add an '18 1st to some of these?:

Will Barton + Jusuf Nurkic
Wilson Chandler + Jusuf Nurkic
Wilson Chandler + Malik Beasley
Jusuf Nurkic + Malik Beasley
Danilo Gallinari + Malik Beasley
MKG + Hibbert (or Hawes) for Gallinari + Nurkic

Honestly I like Chandler + Nurkic for MKG.

We've talked about Gallinari trades, with Gallinari + Nurkic for MKG + Frank being the one proposed by a Denver fan. I think it was FATs that pointed out that Gallinari has a player option for next year. The only way to keep him would probably be a huge overpay. That said I'm still of the opinion that this is the kind of trade the team needs to make if they want to actually go past the first round this year. I think that the only way you get Gallinari & Nurkic for Hibbert or Hawes instead of Frank is if you include a lightly protected Charlotte 1st round pick.

Beasley and Barton don't excite me.

From Denver's side I wouldn't trade for MKG unless I had something lined up for Faried already, such as the rumored Faried for Milsap trade which a few folks talked about as a possibility.

[Vanderbilt_Grad]

I'm also wondering if Charlotte couldn't do a "mini-tank" this year if things start looking bad. Maybe try to get a 2nd First Round pick or a higher pick in next year's draft + a little more depth.

[Vanderbilt_Grad]

I hate not being able to delete my own posts.

[bravor]

Providing the pelicans make it available, i would make an offer for Ajinca + Holiday. One wants to go, the other is expiring and they might have found a better replacement (arguably).

Somethinglike this with a protected 1st (or some second picks).

[JMAC3]

I honestly think Rubio would be at least a solid fit in Clifford's system. Yes, he can't shoot or finish well, but he has many other qualities that Clifford likes. He has good length for his position. Hes a good individual defender. He can defend SG's and theoretically play with Kemba. Hes smart on both sides of the ball with good natural instincts. Hes creative on offense and can create opportunities for others. He can run an offense. He actually has pretty much elite vision and passing.

Hes certainly a flawed player and not all that great or anything, but hes not any more flawed than anyone on the team except Kemba and Batum (both of whom are at least still somewhat flawed) and hes locked up for a couple years on a pretty cheap contract. I'm not saying hes ideal, but hed still be a huge upgrade over Sessions and its possible his efficiency would improve playing on a winning team with a good system already in place. I think he would have great chemistry on the second unit with Lamb and Marco. Rubio/Marco/Lamb/Frank/Hawes, actually seems like a pretty sneaky good second unit for Clifford. The defense would be shaky, but they would score a lot of points and keep the pace going.

I'd be all about getting Rubio if the price is right.

Agree, he has flaws. But then again everyone who is available via trade will. He would be great on a second unit, because he would make everyone around him better and they would all score better. Cutters like MKG, Cody and Lamb would get easier buckets then with sessions.

I wouldn't give up much but I think it's worth looking into.


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[Snidely FC]

The Denver Nuggets seem like a good trade partner for MKG. With Gary Harris, Jamal Murray, Will Barton & Malik Beasley at SG, they have a plethora of young shooters so could stand to trade for a wing defender with upside. They're looking to try to meet the NBA salary floor. I assume DEN sees Gary Harris as their starting SG and Jokic as untouchable going forward so have not included them. I also hate Fairied's contract, though I would probably consider him if a young player like Beasley or Nurkic was attached. I assume it would take more than MKG to get Gallinari at this point, and wonder if with MKS's play this season we may have to add an '18 1st to some of these?:

Will Barton + Jusuf Nurkic
Wilson Chandler + Jusuf Nurkic
Wilson Chandler + Malik Beasley
Jusuf Nurkic + Malik Beasley
Danilo Gallinari + Malik Beasley
MKG + Hibbert (or Hawes) for Gallinari + Nurkic

Honestly I like Chandler + Nurkic for MKG.

We've talked about Gallinari trades, with Gallinari + Nurkic for MKG + Frank being the one proposed by a Denver fan. I think it was FATs that pointed out that Gallinari has a player option for next year. The only way to keep him would probably be a huge overpay. That said I'm still of the opinion that this is the kind of trade the team needs to make if they want to actually go past the first round this year. I think that the only way you get Gallinari & Nurkic for Hibbert or Hawes instead of Frank is if you include a lightly protected Charlotte 1st round pick.

Beasley and Barton don't excite me.

From Denver's side I wouldn't trade for MKG unless I had something lined up for Faried already, such as the rumored Faried for Milsap trade which a few folks talked about as a possibility.

I'd be okay with Will Barton because he's 26, came into the league as a defender but is shooting 42% from 3 and is on a $3.5 M contract.
I think Malik Beasley is the one guy in all these trades who has the potential to be better than MKG; sweet stroke, defender in college, known as an A+ personality, and was well-liked by CHA in last year's draft process. Certainly would take a while to impact, though.
Actually sorry I threw Gallinari at the end of my post; I know folks just recently debated him, and I'm not comfortable with his fit or contract. I too would favor the Chandler Nurkic deal.

[Joest2003]

I honestly think the time has come to move off from MKG but no one in this planet would touch that contact he got.

[Braggins]

Providing the pelicans make it available, i would make an offer for Ajinca + Holiday. One wants to go, the other is expiring and they might have found a better replacement (arguably).

Somethinglike this with a protected 1st (or some second picks).

I'd definitely do Sessions + Hibbert + 2017 2nd for Holiday + Ajinca. I might even be tempted to throw in a 2019 2nd if we are confident Holiday would resign for a reasonable amount. Its hard to see any team giving up a 1st or any good prospects for Holiday on a rental. Expiring cap and 2nds might actually get it done. I'm not even sure if Ajinca is a major upgrade over Roy, but I'll take anything for him and I'm fine going with Hawes as the backup center if need be.

[Vanderbilt_Grad]

Charlotte out: MKG, Sessions
Charlotte in: Vucevic, Collison
Why? Charlotte turns MKG & Sessions into depth at PG & Center. Lamb & Belinelli have roles expanded.

Orlando out: Vucevic
Orlando in: Rudy Gay
Why? Brings scoring balance to roster without sacrificing too much.

Sacramento out: Rudy Gay, Ben McLemore, W. Cauley-Stein, future first.
Sacramento in: Goran Dragic, MKG, Dion Waiters, McGruder
Why? Gay really hasn’t had his heart in Sactown this year. Moving Gay, Collison, & some currently underperforming young guys nets them solid replacement starters.

Miami out: Goran Dragic, Dion Waters, McGruder.
Miami in: Sessions, McLemore, Cauley-Stein, future first
Why? This is about trying out some younger guys while rebuilding the team on the fly.

The most problematic part of this trade is the Sactown future first. They are pretty leveraged pick wise.

Note: another really minor potential wrinkle is that Charlotte could trade Hibbert & perhaps a 2nd round pick to Miami for McRoberts, either as a part of this deal or separately. I’m not really advocating for McBob to return, but it’s a pretty simple trade that doesn’t have long term implications for either team. If Charlotte does upgrade at Center without trading Hibbert as a part of that deal, then swapping him for a better fit makes sense.

[fatlever]

I honestly think the time has come to move off from MKG but no one in this planet would touch that contact he got.

For what MKG brings, his current contract is still very fair. I have no problem with MKG's contract and I think teams that need a legit defensive wing, who can rebound, bring energy and slashing would be fine with his contract.

MKG is a luxury for us right now. We don't have many assets or obvious ways to improve and trading MKG at least gives us the possibility of getting some value in return, value that might be a better fit for this team.

On top of that, some fans feel that perhaps both the team and MKG need a change scenery. I'm not sure Clifford knows how to get the best out of MKG on offense or perhaps this roster won't bring out his best.

But the contract is fair and would be a steal if he ever figures out his offense or lands in a situation that better utilizes him on offense.

[fatlever]

Charlotte out: MKG, Sessions
Charlotte in: Vucevic, Collison
Why? Charlotte turns MKG & Sessions into depth at PG & Center. Lamb & Belinelli have roles expanded.

Orlando out: Vucevic
Orlando in: Rudy Gay
Why? Brings scoring balance to roster without sacrificing too much.

Sacramento out: Rudy Gay, Ben McLemore, W. Cauley-Stein, future first.
Sacramento in: Goran Dragic, MKG, Dion Waiters, McGruder
Why? Gay really hasn’t had his heart in Sactown this year. Moving Gay, Collison, & some currently underperforming young guys nets them solid replacement starters.

Miami out: Goran Dragic, Dion Waters, McGruder.
Miami in: Sessions, McLemore, Cauley-Stein, future first
Why? This is about trying out some younger guys while rebuilding the team on the fly.

The most problematic part of this trade is the Sactown future first. They are pretty leveraged pick wise.

Note: another really minor potential wrinkle is that Charlotte could trade Hibbert & perhaps a 2nd round pick to Miami for McRoberts, either as a part of this deal or separately. I’m not really advocating for McBob to return, but it’s a pretty simple trade that doesn’t have long term implications for either team. If Charlotte does upgrade at Center without trading Hibbert as a part of that deal, then swapping him for a better fit makes sense.

Interesting ideas for all 4 teams.

For us, we'd need to line up a second trade to move Hawes/Hibbert for another wing.

Dragic, MKG, Cousins would be a fun core to build around for the Kings.

I'm not sure what value Gay brings to Orlando, assuming he opts out this summer. He's basically a better version of Jeff Green who already doesn't seem to fit. Do they do it just to get away from Vucevic's contract? If so, I think they can get a better return.

[Vanderbilt_Grad]

On the Orlando board a while back they were debating what kind of trade they needed. Consensus seemed to be that Gay, for scoring was the easiest option since it seemed doable without touching core players. Vucevic was the player they seemed most willing to trade. Maybe they can get better return, but my suggestion was within the general parameters of what I was reading them talk about. I have no idea how their FO thinks though, and I haven't been to their board in at least a week or two, so things may have changed.

[fatlever]

On the Orlando board a while back they were debating what kind of trade they needed. Consensus seemed to be that Gay, for scoring was the easiest option since it seemed doable without touching core players. Vucevic was the player they seemed most willing to trade. Maybe they can get better return, but my suggestion was within the general parameters of what I was reading them talk about. I have no idea how their FO thinks though, and I haven't been to their board in at least a week or two, so things may have changed.

Fair enough. My only counter would be, I could see that trade making sense early in the year when they had realistic hopes of playoffs. As the season drags on, I wonder if they would be looking for something more long term (again assuming Gay opts out). Now if they think can resign Gay due to having his bird rights and want to pay him, then sure, go for it.

[yosemiteben]

Collison is expiring, so long term this is really just MKG for Vucevic + Collison's bird rights. No thanks, not clear to me that Vuc is a better piece for us.

[yosemiteben]

We don't have many assets or obvious ways to improve...

We have all of our draft picks and we have multiple short term contracts we could package, so not sure I agree here.