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Fake Trade Thread 16/17 pt.1

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Re: Fake Trade Thread 16/17 pt.1 

Post#621 » by JMAC3 » Wed Jan 25, 2017 9:45 pm

skywalker33 wrote:
JMAC3 wrote:Nurkic, Wilson Chandler, and Jameer Nelson for Lamb, Hibbert, Sessions, 2018 pick and rights to swap 2019 first round picks?

Takes care of our 3 biggest needs- backup pg, another scorer, and backup center


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But doesn't do a lot for the Nuggets, now does it ??


Idk I don't think it's bad... Essentially trading Nurkic for a 1st, Chandler for Lamb and expiring contract in Hibbert. Sessions is expiring whereas Nelson has another year on his deal.. which isn't a great thing for Denver. Then on top they get the right to swap picks with us in 2019 which could be good if their young talent works out.

Reason I didn't do a 2017 pick is, seems like they don't really need to add young players right now. They have 3 first round rookies on their team now in Murray, Beasley, and Juancho. So it would prolly make more sense to get another pick further down the line, so you can develop the guys they have now and also it helps so they don't have to resign everyone at the same time down the road.

Overall they get to Salary Dump, Lamb who is cheap and fits their young core Better than Chandler and 1st rounder plus a better pick potentially in another draft.

Do they really expect to get more than 1st for that package?



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Re: Fake Trade Thread 16/17 pt.1 

Post#622 » by skywalker33 » Wed Jan 25, 2017 11:26 pm

JMAC3 wrote:
skywalker33 wrote:
JMAC3 wrote:Nurkic, Wilson Chandler, and Jameer Nelson for Lamb, Hibbert, Sessions, 2018 pick and rights to swap 2019 first round picks?

Takes care of our 3 biggest needs- backup pg, another scorer, and backup center


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But doesn't do a lot for the Nuggets, now does it ??


Idk I don't think it's bad... Essentially trading Nurkic for a 1st, Chandler for Lamb and expiring contract in Hibbert. Sessions is expiring whereas Nelson has another year on his deal.. which isn't a great thing for Denver. Then on top they get the right to swap picks with us in 2019 which could be good if their young talent works out.

Reason I didn't do a 2017 pick is, seems like they don't really need to add young players right now. They have 3 first round rookies on their team now in Murray, Beasley, and Juancho. So it would prolly make more sense to get another pick further down the line, so you can develop the guys they have now and also it helps so they don't have to resign everyone at the same time down the road.

Overall they get to Salary Dump, Lamb who is cheap and fits their young core Better than Chandler and 1st rounder plus a better pick potentially in another draft.

Do they really expect to get more than 1st for that package?


Well, we already have Harris, Barton and Beasley at the SG, Lamb has been in the league going on 5 years and still doesn't average 10ppg. Comparing him to Chandler is ridiculous, Chandler is by far the better player there. Sessions and Hibbert don't really help even as an expirings as DEN is still below the Salary floor and we really haven't had a ton of Free Agent acquisitions as of late.

As for the draft pick, the 2017 draft is one of the best in the last decades and with the new CBA increasing the rosters of each NBA team by 2, seems not only would the help be more immediate but better value. Also the pick swap probably won't happen as you're team will probably be better when adding Nurkic and Chandler, plus a 1st.


That's just from a Denver perspective, I'm sure it seems decent to you, but trades do have to benefit both sides to work.
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Re: Fake Trade Thread 16/17 pt.1 

Post#623 » by JMAC3 » Thu Jan 26, 2017 3:39 am

skywalker33 wrote:
JMAC3 wrote:
skywalker33 wrote:
But doesn't do a lot for the Nuggets, now does it ??


Idk I don't think it's bad... Essentially trading Nurkic for a 1st, Chandler for Lamb and expiring contract in Hibbert. Sessions is expiring whereas Nelson has another year on his deal.. which isn't a great thing for Denver. Then on top they get the right to swap picks with us in 2019 which could be good if their young talent works out.

Reason I didn't do a 2017 pick is, seems like they don't really need to add young players right now. They have 3 first round rookies on their team now in Murray, Beasley, and Juancho. So it would prolly make more sense to get another pick further down the line, so you can develop the guys they have now and also it helps so they don't have to resign everyone at the same time down the road.

Overall they get to Salary Dump, Lamb who is cheap and fits their young core Better than Chandler and 1st rounder plus a better pick potentially in another draft.

Do they really expect to get more than 1st for that package?


Well, we already have Harris, Barton and Beasley at the SG, Lamb has been in the league going on 5 years and still doesn't average 10ppg. Comparing him to Chandler is ridiculous, Chandler is by far the better player there. Sessions and Hibbert don't really help even as an expirings as DEN is still below the Salary floor and we really haven't had a ton of Free Agent acquisitions as of late.

As for the draft pick, the 2017 draft is one of the best in the last decades and with the new CBA increasing the rosters of each NBA team by 2, seems not only would the help be more immediate but better value. Also the pick swap probably won't happen as you're team will probably be better when adding Nurkic and Chandler, plus a 1st.


That's just from a Denver perspective, I'm sure it seems decent to you, but trades do have to benefit both sides to work.


I am not gonna say the offer is perfect, but at the same time those 3 players aren't worth 2 firsts let alone with Lamb involved.

Nurkic is borderline not worth a first. He is not good enough to be a starting center. Yet, in 2 years he will cost a ton in free agency. Just thought it made sense to pick up a first for him now instead of losing him for nothing later. Longer you wait to trade him worse his value will be because a team can just draft a center with better upside and have a cheap team controlled player for 4 years.



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Re: Fake Trade Thread 16/17 pt.1 

Post#624 » by yosemiteben » Thu Jan 26, 2017 4:11 pm

Does anyone not want Ibaka? ORL is playing awful and have to be thinking about moving him so he doesn't walk for nothing next summer. They are a train wreck and he has to be thinking about greener pastures. If we trade for him, we will pick up his BR and he could be a nice fit in our system as a defensive minded pseudo-stretch big that could play next to any of Frank, Marv, or Cody.

Any two of Hibbert, Hawes, Sessions, Lamb, or Marco works $ wise. Curious if they'd accept a 2017 first plus two of those options, and also curious whether folks on here think that's a good idea. Definitely risky. Would prefer to keep Lamb and Marco, but not sure what to do at PG if we send Sessions.
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Re: Fake Trade Thread 16/17 pt.1 

Post#625 » by Braggins » Thu Jan 26, 2017 4:31 pm

yosemiteben wrote:Does anyone not want Ibaka? ORL is playing awful and have to be thinking about moving him so he doesn't walk for nothing next summer. They are a train wreck and he has to be thinking about greener pastures. If we trade for him, we will pick up his BR and he could be a nice fit in our system as a defensive minded pseudo-stretch big that could play next to any of Frank, Marv, or Cody.

Any two of Hibbert, Hawes, Sessions, Lamb, or Marco works $ wise. Curious if they'd accept a 2017 first plus two of those options, and also curious whether folks on here think that's a good idea. Definitely risky. Would prefer to keep Lamb and Marco, but not sure what to do at PG if we send Sessions.

I thought about this the other day as well. Id maybe give up our 2018 1st + Sessions + Hibbert/Hawes. I really want to keep our 2017 1st and would rather not give up any of our needed wing depth. I'd try to offload a 2nd or two to find a solution at backup PG. Not sure Roberts would cut it.

I doubt they would take Marv + 2017 2nd, but if we did that deal instead we could then trade our 1st for Nurkic.

Kemba/Sessions/Roberts
Batum/Marco/Graham
MKG/Lamb
Ibaka/Frank/Wood
Cody/Nurkic/X?

I'd probably go ahead and still try to trade a 2nd for an upgrade to Sessions tbh.

What would it do to our cap situation if we swapped out Marv + Hawes + Sessions for Ibaka + Nurkic + an expiring backup PG? Would that allow us to get far enough under the cap to sign a fairly big name player and then resign Ibaka using his bird rights? If we moved either Lamb or Belinelli before free agency and retained everyone else (including Wood and Graham), we'd be at about 75 million in committed salary before factoring in Ibaka's cap hold. If we moved Lamb and Belinelli we'd be at about 68 million.
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Re: Fake Trade Thread 16/17 pt.1 

Post#626 » by fatlever » Thu Jan 26, 2017 5:46 pm

Something big has to happen in the next 18 months with this team or else we run the risk of losing out of the best years of Kemba at his current salary + Batum in his prime. I'm not saying we need to do something crazy this trade deadline, but sooner or later, Cho has to make a serious move to add another legit all-star level starter to play next to Kemba and Batum, ideally one who can work as a 2nd option and play both ends.

I'd probably not get too crazy this trade deadline, because I don't see this team as being good enough to really make any noise in the playoffs. I'd hate to give up a future 1st just to try and win a couple more games this spring. Next summer a move need to be made, either in free agency, draft or trade. I think we need to save all of our assets for a big move, one that will really make a difference.

I think we need to replace at least one of MKG, Marvin or Cody in the starting lineup with a better player. It would be fantastic if that could be done while retaining those 3 and moving one to the bench. Batum can't be the 2nd option for this team on offense. That's just not who he is as a player.
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Re: Fake Trade Thread 16/17 pt.1 

Post#627 » by fatlever » Thu Jan 26, 2017 5:48 pm

"Saving assets" for a big move doesn't have to mean using picks in a trade either. Perhaps we use a player (or two) in a trade, in which case, having picks is a good way to get a cheap replacement.
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Re: Fake Trade Thread 16/17 pt.1 

Post#628 » by dmutombo321 » Thu Jan 26, 2017 11:30 pm

fatlever wrote:Something big has to happen in the next 18 months with this team or else we run the risk of losing out of the best years of Kemba at his current salary + Batum in his prime. I'm not saying we need to do something crazy this trade deadline, but sooner or later, Cho has to make a serious move to add another legit all-star level starter to play next to Kemba and Batum, ideally one who can work as a 2nd option and play both ends.

I'd probably not get too crazy this trade deadline, because I don't see this team as being good enough to really make any noise in the playoffs. I'd hate to give up a future 1st just to try and win a couple more games this spring. Next summer a move need to be made, either in free agency, draft or trade. I think we need to save all of our assets for a big move, one that will really make a difference.

I think we need to replace at least one of MKG, Marvin or Cody in the starting lineup with a better player. It would be fantastic if that could be done while retaining those 3 and moving one to the bench. Batum can't be the 2nd option for this team on offense. That's just not who he is as a player.


Agree whole heatedly. Save for Batum and Kemba however, I dont see how the team has the trade capital to command the type of prominent player who can fill a first or second option role. Guys like Gordon Hayward and Otto Porter will be out of our reach monetarily in FA and are too good to be obtained with any package centered around MKG and a pick.

The trade value premium that was previously bestowed upon MKG due to his luster, youth and mystique is waning. Two years ago, I remember getting ribbed for being an advocate of both Harrison Barnes and Enes Kanter trades centered around MKG as I thought each, while certainly flawed, had higher ceilings. Even though both are signed to pricey contracts now, and Kanter is still a turnstile on pick/roll defense, both of those players have far surpassed Kidd Gilchrist in their respective developments and Charlotte would get laughed off the phone if they tried to offer Gilchrist for either of those two now.

If Charlotte is going to use MKG as a trade principal, I think Cho's best move is to take a page out of the Bob Bass playbook and target a player whose trade stock is down in our price range either because they are being misutilized by their present team or have untapped potential that is being overlooked by their current teams.

--TJ Warren immediately comes to mind. He was an offensive Juggernaut at the beginning of the season and MIP front runner but has not really been reintegrated enough back into the Sun's offense to reassert himself since he returned from injury several weeks ago. He has the potential to be an efficient 25ppg scorer in this league if properly featured. Even with his stock down right now, I dont know if PHX could be sold on swapping him for MKG but it would be worth a shot. Warren is a scorer who doesnt get the touches he needs with Booker and Bledsoe dominating the ball. So perhaps they could be sold on a player like Gilchrist who contributes in other ways.

--Tobias Harris - Another versatile SF who is also muscular enough to play the 4 in certain lineups. Piston's are two games under .500 and Van Gundy is under pressure to make the playoffs so its unlikely they have interest in moving him. Also, he'd be likely to cost more than just MKG.

--The much discussed Nurkic/Wilson Chandler package might be the most realistic option, even though I like the players above better. Nurkic, while somewhat plodding, has shown signs of developing into a 15/10 bruiser at center. And although Chandler is about to hit 30 years of age, he's locked up reasonably for the next 2-3 years and could be counted on for 15-18ppg in Charlotte's offense while rebounding at a decent clip and playing above average defense.
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Re: Fake Trade Thread 16/17 pt.1 

Post#629 » by yosemiteben » Fri Jan 27, 2017 3:07 am

From a thread on the T&T board involving a three team trade between NYK, LAC, and CHA:

Hornets trade:
Jeremy Lamb
Roy Hibbert
Ramon Sessions
2017 1st Rounder

Hornets receive:
JJ Redick
Wes Johnson
Brandon Jennings
Paul Pierce

I like this best for the Hornets. Redick would fit so well in Charlotte and would mix in nicely with their current wings. Jennings is the backup PG they so desperately need. Ok they'd need to eat Wes Johnson but I think Clifford can make him salvageable. Pierce is unguaranteed for next season, so he could either be vet presence or waiver wire bait. Cost of doing business is a first rounder this year.

Thoughts?
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Re: RE: Re: Fake Trade Thread 16/17 pt.1 

Post#630 » by BlackOutBuzz » Fri Jan 27, 2017 3:23 am

yosemiteben wrote:From a thread on the T&T board involving a three team trade between NYK, LAC, and CHA:

Hornets trade:
Jeremy Lamb
Roy Hibbert
Ramon Sessions
2017 1st Rounder

Hornets receive:
JJ Redick
Wes Johnson
Brandon Jennings
Paul Pierce

I like this best for the Hornets. Redick would fit so well in Charlotte and would mix in nicely with their current wings. Jennings is the backup PG they so desperately need. Ok they'd need to eat Wes Johnson but I think Clifford can make him salvageable. Pierce is unguaranteed for next season, so he could either be vet presence or waiver wire bait. Cost of doing business is a first rounder this year.

Thoughts?


Subtract the expiring contracts and it's Wes Johnson for Lamb and a first... I get that Redick's Bird Rights have value, but so did Courtney Lee's and they didn't cost nearly as much.

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Re: Fake Trade Thread 16/17 pt.1 

Post#631 » by yosemiteben » Fri Jan 27, 2017 3:29 am

I think it helps that Redick is from the area / region (grew up in VA, obviously played at Duke) and I don't think he'll have the same mindset as CLee as far as needing a starting gig since he's turning 33 in June.

Agreed that it's a risk and I wouldn't do it unless I get clear signals that a deal this summer would be welcomed.
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Re: Fake Trade Thread 16/17 pt.1 

Post#632 » by Bassman » Fri Jan 27, 2017 3:30 am

I love dmutumbo's idea of dealing MKG for TJ Warren. Warren is a different player, especially offensively, yet could bring some of the same intangibles MKG does on the boards and via his hustle. I do think TJ has an upside that compliments what we are trying to do.
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Re: Fake Trade Thread 16/17 pt.1 

Post#633 » by Vanderbilt_Grad » Fri Jan 27, 2017 3:37 am

I'm OK with that trade, but it seems pretty big for a Cho deadline move. The big issue for me is that Jennings is a free agent in the summer. Trading a pick for a half season rental is a tough pill to swallow unless they really feel like he fits and can be resigned. Redick seems a bit redundant with Beli & is also a FA, though more shooting is always good. Wes & Paul are kind of 'meh' at this point.

Also on the front page of the T&T board is this, which seems a bit more realistic to me, though I like it less.

loserX wrote:An idea I'd toyed with in another thread, just thought I'd finish it up and give it a post.

Hornets trade/Knicks receive
Roy Hibbert
Ramon Sessions
2017 1st rounder, lotto protection

Knicks trade/Hornets receive
Kyle O'Quinn
Brandon Jennings

The Hornets get two upgrades at needed positions: a dirty-work C and a backup PG who can create. It's not a splashy move but helps solidify things for a playoff run. O'Quinn is under contract a couple more years so these aren't all strictly rentals.

The Knicks take a downgrade in order to get a pick.

I know 2017 is considered a strong draft, but hopefully Charlotte will be at a point that they're not so concerned about it. My dream for them is still to make a big splash move, which this *certainly* isn't, but it could still be a useful tweak if they're not ready to push all-in for a big name.
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Re: Fake Trade Thread 16/17 pt.1 

Post#634 » by amcoolio » Fri Jan 27, 2017 3:39 am

Vanderbilt_Grad wrote:I'm OK with that trade, but it seems pretty big for a Cho deadline move. The big issue for me is that Jennings is a free agent in the summer. Trading a pick for a half season rental is a tough pill to swallow unless they really feel like he fits and can be resigned. Redick seems a bit redundant with Beli & is also a FA, though more shooting is always good. Wes & Paul are kind of 'meh' at this point.

Also on the front page of the T&T board is this, which seems a bit more realistic to me, though I like it less.

loserX wrote:An idea I'd toyed with in another thread, just thought I'd finish it up and give it a post.

Hornets trade/Knicks receive
Roy Hibbert
Ramon Sessions
2017 1st rounder, lotto protection

Knicks trade/Hornets receive
Kyle O'Quinn
Brandon Jennings

The Hornets get two upgrades at needed positions: a dirty-work C and a backup PG who can create. It's not a splashy move but helps solidify things for a playoff run. O'Quinn is under contract a couple more years so these aren't all strictly rentals.

The Knicks take a downgrade in order to get a pick.

I know 2017 is considered a strong draft, but hopefully Charlotte will be at a point that they're not so concerned about it. My dream for them is still to make a big splash move, which this *certainly* isn't, but it could still be a useful tweak if they're not ready to push all-in for a big name.


I like Brandon Jennings, but he isn't worth a 1st round pick. Without the pick, or a 2nd rounder, sure.

I posted a Rondo/Mirotic/McDermott/Portis for Lamb/Kaminsky/Sessions/Hibbert/1st trade, and one Bulls fan said he'd do it lol. That's an awfully big trade though and Cho would never go for it.
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Re: Fake Trade Thread 16/17 pt.1 

Post#635 » by BlackOutBuzz » Fri Jan 27, 2017 4:26 am

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=zdb7ck6

Just tell the Jazz that Hollinger has them improving while we take a small hit

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Re: RE: Re: Fake Trade Thread 16/17 pt.1 

Post#636 » by yosemiteben » Fri Jan 27, 2017 5:00 am

Bassman wrote:I love dmutumbo's idea of dealing MKG for TJ Warren. Warren is a different player, especially offensively, yet could bring some of the same intangibles MKG does on the boards and via his hustle. I do think TJ has an upside that compliments what we are trying to do.

What makes you think he could be a plus rebounder? He hasn't shown that yet.

If we're moving MKG, let's do it for a guy that has a consistent 3 ball and doesn't have a pretty extensive injury history, right?
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Re: Fake Trade Thread 16/17 pt.1 

Post#637 » by bravor » Fri Jan 27, 2017 7:28 am

Sanders should be a target for the Hornets (you can bet other teams like Portland & couple more won't hesitate much) on a 1+1 contract (TO). That would minimize the risk and he would probably play in order to get a bigger contract.
I am perfectly aware of the gamble it would be but in terms of risk vs rewards, imo that should be a no brainer if his agent is not seting the price tag too high

Then Cho would have bench players to play with in order to get a backcourt upgrade (s) from the bench.
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Re: Fake Trade Thread 16/17 pt.1 

Post#638 » by BatumtheGlue » Fri Jan 27, 2017 12:40 pm

Larry Sanders is worth the risk. He was an excellent defender, decent rebounder, could run the floor, very good pick setter. 48 minutes of Larry Sanders and Cody Zeller already makes me salivating. Love me some Larry Sanders.
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Re: Fake Trade Thread 16/17 pt.1 

Post#639 » by yosemiteben » Fri Jan 27, 2017 1:25 pm

Meh, he's 28 and hasn't played a single minute of NBA basketball in the last two years. I'm skeptical that he can help an NBA team this season.
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Re: Fake Trade Thread 16/17 pt.1 

Post#640 » by Vanderbilt_Grad » Fri Jan 27, 2017 1:52 pm

Just MHO, but building on some of the discussion over the last few pages.

Short Term
1. Bench needs an upgrade if the Hornets want to make the playoffs and get past the 1st round.
2. PG & C are positions where the fall-off is the greatest IMHO. If I had to pick one I would say PG upgrade.
3. Bench scoring is an issue and I don't think that Lamb is the answer. Feel free to show me I'm wrong here.
4. It's not worth trading a 1st for a small bench upgrade or for a guy on an expiring.

Long Term
1. Starters are good, but we need another serious scoring threat to go on the floor with Kemba.
2. MKG, Marvin, & Zeller are all good but one of these 3 positions is where I would look for improvement.
3. It is worth trading a 1st or one of our starters for another starter provided they will be here for a few years.
4. Free agency probably isn't going to be a good way to upgrade starters for the Hornets, but might be useful for long term bench upgrades.

I know that a lot of that seems like common sense, but it was helpful for me since I was getting a bit tempted by offers like the NYC trades. I have come around to the position of small move now & larger move over the summer unless something too good to be true comes along.
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