Falcons Post Game/Season Review/2017-18 Leadup

[Mags FTW]

Man, our last two drafts are on real shaky ground. Might turn out okay but worst case scenario we're in serious trouble. Lowry, Ryan, Clark look like average at best guys although not bad.

Have to remember that Clark turned 21 this season. 99% of the guys his age would've been playing their junior year in college.

[El Duderino]

Packers playoff losses since 2009:

2017: 44 points allowed, 493 yards allowed
2016: 26 points allowed, 368 yards allowed
2015: 28 points allowed, 397 yards allowed
2014: 23 points allowed, 381 yards allowed
2013: 45 points allowed, 579 yards allowed
2012: 37 points allowed, 420 yards allowed
2010: 51 points allowed, 531 yards allowed

Average points and yards given up in 7 playoff losses over 8 seasons: 36 points, and 452 yards.

.....I mean, at some point, this stops becoming a "talent issue" and you just have to look at what has been the one constant over the last 8 years for a defense that regularly looks unprepared and completely lost scheme-wise when the games matter most:

It's both. For some reason though you act like Ted Thompson's best friend and want to ignore his very obviously failings in both drafting and acquiring defensive talent over the last 5-6 years.

If Ted was able to draft and acquire defensive talent as he has on the offensive side of the ball since becoming GM, the team would have had more success.

[Ron Swanson]

Packers playoff losses since 2009:

2017: 44 points allowed, 493 yards allowed
2016: 26 points allowed, 368 yards allowed
2015: 28 points allowed, 397 yards allowed
2014: 23 points allowed, 381 yards allowed
2013: 45 points allowed, 579 yards allowed
2012: 37 points allowed, 420 yards allowed
2010: 51 points allowed, 531 yards allowed

Average points and yards given up in 7 playoff losses over 8 seasons: 36 points, and 452 yards.

.....I mean, at some point, this stops becoming a "talent issue" and you just have to look at what has been the one constant over the last 8 years for a defense that regularly looks unprepared and completely lost scheme-wise when the games matter most:

It's both. For some reason though you act like Ted Thompson's best friend and want to ignore his very obviously failings in both drafting and acquiring defensive talent over the last 5-6 years.

If Ted was able to draft and acquire defensive talent as he has on the offensive side of the ball since becoming GM, the team would have had more success.

Because assembling a patchwork MASH unit that made it to the NFC Championship game is somehow a failure of team-building in the eyes of some of you guys? Again, what's the constant here? That elite defense in our last SB win was the exact same unit that got torched for 51 points in the playoffs the previous year. Was that a talent issue?

The TT criticisms sure as hell seemed to die down when we won 8 straight, then predictably ramped all the way back up after our defense got murdered by an offense that knew exactly what we were going to run and predictably exploited the same weaknesses telling of Capers' antiquated pass coverage scheme, just like how we've ended every season since 2010. But I get it, it's easier to just say "It's everyone's fault but Rodgers" and call for the entire FO's head rather than actually analyzing what the biggest issues seem to be.

Me? I've seen Capers win a Super Bowl with a talented defensive group. I've also seen him put forth a garbage defense with a talented defensive group, and I've seen him put forth a historically pathetic defense when injuries struck the secondary. So what's the constant here?

"It's a talent issue" is the most overused cliche in sports. Look at all the UDFA's that have needed to be plugged in at points during the season and how adequately they performed in the absence of injured guys (Brice, Allison, Jayrone Elliot, Joe Thomas, Lane Taylor, Gunter, etc.) and tell me how he's somehow supposed to find All-Pro guys instead. I have high expectations for guys like Kenny Clark, Martinez, Clinton-Dix, and Nick Perry if he's re-signed. I wasn't particularly disappointed with any of them this season. Randle and Rollins definitely regressed in a major way, and I don't know how you put the Shields injury on anyone. But I'll be excited to have another offseason where Ted addresses most of our obvious weaknesses, only for a player or two to regress and have the blame put squarely on his shoulders...

[WeekapaugGroove]

I wouldnt shed a tear if capers got replaced but if they can get good corner play next year his scheme will be fine. So much of what they want to do on d requires you have corners who can lock a guy up in man coverage. When they cant like this year it just ruins so much of the exotic stuff they want to try.

Now you could definitely argue that they should go away from this approach because good man corners are hard to find and you're never gonna have 4-5 of them so injuries can derail you quickly. So maybe moving to a more zone based scheme is safer because you can get away with lesser players at cb.

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[wichmae]

I wouldnt shed a tear if capers got replaced but if they can get good corner play next year his scheme will be fine. So much of what they want to do on d requires you have corners who can lock a guy up in man coverage. When they cant like this year it just ruins so much of the exotic stuff they want to try.

Now you could definitely argue that they should go away from this approach because good man corners are hard to find and you're never gonna have 4-5 of them so injuries can derail you quickly. So maybe moving to a more zone based scheme is safer because you can get away with lesser players at cb.

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If TT would just use some of our damn cap space theres three guys who can all fill that role that are upcoming UFA's. Bouye, Gilmore, and Trumain Johnson. Even guys like Amukumara, Kirkpatrick and Logan Ryan could also potentially do it as well. We have to start bringing in more talent and stop relying on UDFA's to turn into the next Sam Shields.

[RRyder823]

I wouldnt shed a tear if capers got replaced but if they can get good corner play next year his scheme will be fine. So much of what they want to do on d requires you have corners who can lock a guy up in man coverage. When they cant like this year it just ruins so much of the exotic stuff they want to try.

Now you could definitely argue that they should go away from this approach because good man corners are hard to find and you're never gonna have 4-5 of them so injuries can derail you quickly. So maybe moving to a more zone based scheme is safer because you can get away with lesser players at cb.

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If TT would just use some of our damn cap space theres three guys who can all fill that role that are upcoming UFA's. Bouye, Gilmore, and Trumain Johnson. Even guys like Amukumara, Kirkpatrick and Logan Ryan could also potentially do it as well. We have to start bringing in more talent and stop relying on UDFA's to turn into the next Sam Shields.

How bout waiting till we resign Perry, Lang, Tretter and Cook before spending whatever cap space we have left?

This is a very uninspired group of UFA and no FA that you listed inspires confidence. I wouldn't touch it but I get that some people need to see TT be "aggressive" whether it's a good idea or not.



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[RRyder823]

I'd be suprised if Capers is brought back at this point. I think he gets too much blame from the fan base but at a certain point someone has to take the fall for the defense we saw this year.

Sometimes nothing more is needed but a different voice. I think Capers may have reached that point

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[El Duderino]

[quote="Ron Swanson"

It's both. For some reason though you act like Ted Thompson's best friend and want to ignore his very obviously failings in both drafting and acquiring defensive talent over the last 5-6 years.

If Ted was able to draft and acquire defensive talent as he has on the offensive side of the ball since becoming GM, the team would have had more success.

The TT criticisms sure as hell seemed to die down when we won 8 straight, then predictably ramped all the way back up after our defense got murdered by an offense that knew exactly what we were going to run and predictably exploited the same weaknesses telling of Capers' antiquated pass coverage scheme, just like how we've ended every season since 2010.

Not from me. I knew this was a very flawed defense even during the winning streak and it's why i wasn't confident at all entering the playoffs. Aaron Rodgers has been covering for Ted's mistakes on defense for awhile. That and Ted doing much better at acquiring talent on offense instead of defense.

Take Atlanta. Remove Rodgers and Ryan from each team. There isn't a GM in football who would prefer the Packers overall roster over the Falcons and both have a highly paid QB. The better and clearly more talented team won.

"It's a talent issue" is the most overused cliche in sports. Look at all the UDFA's that have needed to be plugged in at points during the season and how adequately they performed in the absence of injured guys (Brice, Allison, Jayrone Elliot, Joe Thomas, Lane Taylor, Gunter, etc.) and tell me how he's somehow supposed to find All-Pro guys instead.

The talent problems on defense is only a cliche in your Ted Thompson groupie mind. Pretty much everyone who analyzed the Atlanta game said their offense vs our poorly talented defense was going to be a massive mismatch and it was.

Since Ted only uses the draft, if he wants to finally land some impact impact players on defense, he'll have to start drafting them instead of whiffing so much. Players you mentioned like Brice, Gunter, Elliot, Thomas etc are just spare parts. Other teams find guys like them all of the time. Gunter was thrust into a number one corner role he wasn't talented enough to handle because Ted whiffed on Randell and Rollins. Capers for all of his faults was sent out there with D level talent to face an A level talent on offense. Problems with that unit though goes deeper than Atlanta.

Go ahead and keep being Ted's lapdog and blinding yourself into thinking he put together a talented defense, but few else locally or nationally are buying that crap. Just look at his drafts on defense since the Super Bowl win. Way to many busts or mediocre players in the first four rounds and no big time gems stolen in rounds 5-7 outside of maybe Hyde who was a good pick, but nothing special.

Capers needs to go, but until Ted starts doing a lot better building defenses, they will continue being below average to bad on that side of the ball.

[Jollay]

But I'll be excited to have another offseason where Ted addresses most of our obvious weaknesses, only for a player or two to regress and have the blame put squarely on his shoulders...

A draft class doesn't address a immediate weakness in almost all cases. Blake Martinez played a quarter of the game this weekend and the fourth round pick was our starter to enter the season.

That is by no definition humanly possible addressing that weakness. And that was arguably our biggest weakness entering the offseason.

You once called our offseason "nearly perfect." I literally have to wonder if you're related to TT if you honestly believe that.

[Jollay]

Let's go by Sports Illustrated entering last offseason.
http://www.si.com/nfl/2016/02/15/green-bay-packers-offseason-draft-free-agency-needs

Biggest need--linebacker Other areas to improve--tight end, running back, tackle

This is before Raji bowed out, even.

So you think re-signing Starks is addressing a need to improve at running back? Using a third and fourth round pick on Martinez and Fackrell is addressing our BIGGEST need?

By no reasonable definition did Ted "address" most of our needs.

[Prickle]

I'd be suprised if Capers is brought back at this point. I think he gets too much blame from the fan base but at a certain point someone has to take the fall for the defense we saw this year.

Sometimes nothing more is needed but a different voice. I think Capers may have reached that point

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I've gone back n forth on this. Capers is an easy scapegoat, because we all want a quick fix, and we think a new "voice" or scheme will provide that fix. But with the "talent" he is given, I'm not sure what else he can do. The few times he's had a talented defense, he's done a pretty good job. But far too often, he's expected to field a stout defense with nothing more than a bunch of scrubs. Much has been made of how his defense requires smart players, communication, and real-time adjustments. Yet so often (due to injuries or otherwise), we end up fielding a defense full of young, inexperienced, or under-talented players.

So either we get a new D coordinator whose scheme is more younger player friendly, or we replace TT, who is actually the person responsible for our defensive shortcomings, due to lack of depth.

[wichmae]

I wouldnt shed a tear if capers got replaced but if they can get good corner play next year his scheme will be fine. So much of what they want to do on d requires you have corners who can lock a guy up in man coverage. When they cant like this year it just ruins so much of the exotic stuff they want to try.

Now you could definitely argue that they should go away from this approach because good man corners are hard to find and you're never gonna have 4-5 of them so injuries can derail you quickly. So maybe moving to a more zone based scheme is safer because you can get away with lesser players at cb.

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If TT would just use some of our damn cap space theres three guys who can all fill that role that are upcoming UFA's. Bouye, Gilmore, and Trumain Johnson. Even guys like Amukumara, Kirkpatrick and Logan Ryan could also potentially do it as well. We have to start bringing in more talent and stop relying on UDFA's to turn into the next Sam Shields.

How bout waiting till we resign Perry, Lang, Tretter and Cook before spending whatever cap space we have left?

This is a very uninspired group of UFA and no FA that you listed inspires confidence. I wouldn't touch it but I get that some people need to see TT be "aggressive" whether it's a good idea or not.



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We have 35 million in space before any renegotiations. Tretter is probably gone. Lang hopefully will take a discount. Perry had a breakout year and might be vastly overpaid. Cook is the top target and has to be back. However youre friggin high if you think Bouye, Johnson, and Gilmore are un-inspiring. This might be the best FA corner class in a decade.

[Outlander]

I would take a wait and see approach with Lang. Thompson seemed high on Zeitler before the draft but then the Bengals drafted him in the first round. They should see if he wants to play for his home team, three years younger and in his prime.

[raysbookclub]

Remember when we had all-pros Woodson (HOF) and Nick Collins (maybe headed toward HOF) in the secondary? Our D wasn't all that good, except in 2010. In 2009, Woodson and Collins (and Al Harris and Tramon Williams) were on the team that gave up plenty of points in their losses that year (31, 30, 38, 38, 37) and in the playoff loss at Arizona (51, though yes, Al Harris was on IR for that). For the first two games of 2011, Woodson and Collins were on the team when the team gave up 34 and 23 in wins against the Saints and Panthers.

I don't think it's merely a personnel issue. Ok, this year, the CB position was a mess (#1 CB all-pro Shields out all year, #2 battling injury, #4 and #5 on IR). So yes, Capers' hands were tied there.

But otherwise, let's just say you could replace certain guys on our team with guys from other teams. Let's say you could replace Datone Jones on the roster with Brandon Graham. Let's say you could replace Jake Ryan with Eric Kendricks, and replace Morgan Burnett with a healthy Harrison Smith. I think we'd have the same holes in our middle, wondering why we keep allowing 3rd-and-long conversions, wondering why no one's covering the TE near the sideline, wondering why our blitzes aren't getting there. I still would have little confidence that Capers' D would limit the Falcons to 30 or less.

[Ron Swanson]

Remember when we had all-pros Woodson (HOF) and Nick Collins (maybe headed toward HOF) in the secondary? Our D wasn't all that good, except in 2010. In 2009, Woodson and Collins (and Al Harris and Tramon Williams) were on the team that gave up plenty of points in their losses that year (31, 30, 38, 38, 37) and in the playoff loss at Arizona (51, though yes, Al Harris was on IR for that). For the first two games of 2011, Woodson and Collins were on the team when the team gave up 34 and 23 in wins against the Saints and Panthers.

I don't think it's merely a personnel issue. Ok, this year, the CB position was a mess (#1 CB all-pro Shields out all year, #2 battling injury, #4 and #5 on IR). So yes, Capers' hands were tied there.

But otherwise, let's just say you could replace certain guys on our team with guys from other teams. Let's say you could replace Datone Jones on the roster with Brandon Graham. Let's say you could replace Jake Ryan with Eric Kendricks, and replace Morgan Burnett with a healthy Harrison Smith. I think we'd have the same holes in our middle, wondering why we keep allowing 3rd-and-long conversions, wondering why no one's covering the TE near the sideline, wondering why our blitzes aren't getting there. I still would have little confidence that Capers' D would limit the Falcons to 30 or less.

People were killing McCarthy early in the year for the exact same things (same problems carrying over year-to-year, stagnant offense, lack of diverse play-calling and scheme), then predictably, TT for not giving Rodgers enough "weapons" on offense. Then Montgomery emerges in the backfield, Davante breaks out, UDFA Allison comes out of nowhere, Cook and Cobb get healthy. And all of a sudden the talent concerns are gone on offense.

Missing tackles, pass-rushers not shedding blocks, and just not being able to keep up with Julio Jones is one thing and you can just attribute that to "players not plays". Consistently blowing coverages, allowing a pathetic 3rd & long conversion rate, DB's routinely being out of position, and consistently allowing offenses to pick apart the middle of the field is something completely different. But nah, I'm just a "TT groupie" (whatever the hell that means).

[WeekapaugGroove]

If TT would just use some of our damn cap space theres three guys who can all fill that role that are upcoming UFA's. Bouye, Gilmore, and Trumain Johnson. Even guys like Amukumara, Kirkpatrick and Logan Ryan could also potentially do it as well. We have to start bringing in more talent and stop relying on UDFA's to turn into the next Sam Shields.

How bout waiting till we resign Perry, Lang, Tretter and Cook before spending whatever cap space we have left?

This is a very uninspired group of UFA and no FA that you listed inspires confidence. I wouldn't touch it but I get that some people need to see TT be "aggressive" whether it's a good idea or not.



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We have 35 million in space before any renegotiations. Tretter is probably gone. Lang hopefully will take a discount. Perry had a breakout year and might be vastly overpaid. Cook is the top target and has to be back. However youre friggin high if you think Bouye, Johnson, and Gilmore are un-inspiring. This might be the best FA corner class in a decade.

It will be interesting to see what CB's actually hit the market. With Bouye, Johnson, and Gilmore all their teams have over 25M in projected cap space and I assume will try to bring them back. And if they do happen to hit the market I'm sure several teams will make a play for them. I was just looking at projected cap space and it's crazy how much some teams will have this offseason. So much I'm not sure how some of them will spend it all.

[WeekapaugGroove]

If TT would just use some of our damn cap space theres three guys who can all fill that role that are upcoming UFA's. Bouye, Gilmore, and Trumain Johnson. Even guys like Amukumara, Kirkpatrick and Logan Ryan could also potentially do it as well. We have to start bringing in more talent and stop relying on UDFA's to turn into the next Sam Shields.

How bout waiting till we resign Perry, Lang, Tretter and Cook before spending whatever cap space we have left?

This is a very uninspired group of UFA and no FA that you listed inspires confidence. I wouldn't touch it but I get that some people need to see TT be "aggressive" whether it's a good idea or not.



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We have 35 million in space before any renegotiations. Tretter is probably gone. Lang hopefully will take a discount. Perry had a breakout year and might be vastly overpaid. Cook is the top target and has to be back. However youre friggin high if you think Bouye, Johnson, and Gilmore are un-inspiring. This might be the best FA corner class in a decade.

It will be interesting to see what CB's actually hit the market. With Bouye, Johnson, and Gilmore all their teams have over 25M in projected cap space and I assume will try to bring them back. And if they do happen to hit the market I'm sure several teams will make a play for them. I was just looking at projected cap space and it's crazy how much some teams will have this offseason. So much I'm not sure how some of them will spend it all.

[crkone]

How bout waiting till we resign Perry, Lang, Tretter and Cook before spending whatever cap space we have left?

This is a very uninspired group of UFA and no FA that you listed inspires confidence. I wouldn't touch it but I get that some people need to see TT be "aggressive" whether it's a good idea or not.



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We have 35 million in space before any renegotiations. Tretter is probably gone. Lang hopefully will take a discount. Perry had a breakout year and might be vastly overpaid. Cook is the top target and has to be back. However youre friggin high if you think Bouye, Johnson, and Gilmore are un-inspiring. This might be the best FA corner class in a decade.

It will be interesting to see what CB's actually hit the market. With Bouye, Johnson, and Gilmore all their teams have over 25M in projected cap space and I assume will try to bring them back. And if they do happen to hit the market I'm sure several teams will make a play for them. I was just looking at projected cap space and it's crazy how much some teams will have this offseason. So much I'm not sure how some of them will spend it all.

I looked at them as complete non-starters in that there was no way they'd either leave their teams or that we could afford them without producing major holes elsewhere.

[WeekapaugGroove]

We have 35 million in space before any renegotiations. Tretter is probably gone. Lang hopefully will take a discount. Perry had a breakout year and might be vastly overpaid. Cook is the top target and has to be back. However youre friggin high if you think Bouye, Johnson, and Gilmore are un-inspiring. This might be the best FA corner class in a decade.

It will be interesting to see what CB's actually hit the market. With Bouye, Johnson, and Gilmore all their teams have over 25M in projected cap space and I assume will try to bring them back. And if they do happen to hit the market I'm sure several teams will make a play for them. I was just looking at projected cap space and it's crazy how much some teams will have this offseason. So much I'm not sure how some of them will spend it all.

I looked at them as complete non-starters in that there was no way they'd either leave their teams or that we could afford them without producing major holes elsewhere.

On a positive note it is supposed to be a good corner draft so maybe they fill the need that route and augment that with depth type free agents.

And who knows maybe randle bounces back. He was terrible this year but leg injuries are a legit issue for corners so i have some hope.

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[El Duderino]

People were killing McCarthy early in the year for the exact same things (same problems carrying over year-to-year, stagnant offense, lack of diverse play-calling and scheme), then predictably, TT for not giving Rodgers enough "weapons" on offense. Then Montgomery emerges in the backfield, Davante breaks out, UDFA Allison comes out of nowhere, Cook and Cobb get healthy. And all of a sudden the talent concerns are gone on offense.

Missing tackles, pass-rushers not shedding blocks, and just not being able to keep up with Julio Jones is one thing and you can just attribute that to "players not plays". Consistently blowing coverages, allowing a pathetic 3rd & long conversion rate, DB's routinely being out of position, and consistently allowing offenses to pick apart the middle of the field is something completely different. But nah, I'm just a "TT groupie" (whatever the hell that means).

Ted has done a good job overall acquiring talent on offense during his tenure besides drafting Rodgers. This offense line is good and largely was built on the cheap with only Bulaga being a first round pick. He's done well drafting receivers. Tight end has been a problem after Finley retired, but he did sign Cook this year and i loved the signing at the time.

Defensively though, he's fared much worse in the draft the last 5-6 years and that's lead to a variety of talent deficiencies. You have these blinders on though and foolishly lay all of the blame on Capers for not turning below average talent into a good defense for a number of years now. Just go back and look at his picks on defense the last 5-6 years, way to many whiffs and mediocre players.

FWIW, I want Capers removed also. Maybe a different defensive coordinator can turn this weakly talented defense into something at least more consistently competent. I'm not expecting miracles given the talent issues, but there are some coaches who can take units with lots of holes and make them better than the sum of their parts. Capers has shown that he can't.

Ted also has as much authority as any GM in football. I know that he prefers taking a hands off approach on who McCarthy hires/keeps in place on his staff, but if he really feels Capers isn't getting the most out of the players provided and McCarthy wants to keep Capers, then Ted should use his authority to force change. Sometimes being the boss requires making decisions that people under you don't like.