The Colin Kaepernick Thread

[Ray_Dogg]

Any offense that Kaep plays in needs to be tailored to him. That is an automatic detriment for the development of the rest of the offense. He hasn't and never will possess the basics of QBing. I realize you have an undying love for him but it's in the best interest of the franchise to move along. He isn't the answer and hasn't been for years.

IDK, Kelly's offense wasn't tailored for Kaep. Yet he managed to have his best season since 2013, even with absolute garbage receiving options at his disposal.

Are you kidding me?
There couldn't be a better system fit for Kaep than Kelly unless you want to go back to his college days. It's all anyone could talk about leading up to it.

[thesack12]

Any offense that Kaep plays in needs to be tailored to him. That is an automatic detriment for the development of the rest of the offense. He hasn't and never will possess the basics of QBing. I realize you have an undying love for him but it's in the best interest of the franchise to move along. He isn't the answer and hasn't been for years.

IDK, Kelly's offense wasn't tailored for Kaep. Yet he managed to have his best season since 2013, even with absolute garbage receiving options at his disposal.

Are you kidding me?
There couldn't be a better system fit for Kaep than Kelly unless you want to go back to his college days. It's all anyone could talk about leading up to it.

You must be suffering from selective memory.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/03/17/mathieu-questions-whether-kaepernick-fits-in-chip-kellys-offense/

Many believe that quarterback Colin Kaepernick would fit well with the Chip Kelly offense. Others point out that Kaepernick may lack the ability to make quick decisions, a staple of quarterback play the Kelly system.

[Ray_Dogg]

IDK, Kelly's offense wasn't tailored for Kaep. Yet he managed to have his best season since 2013, even with absolute garbage receiving options at his disposal.

Are you kidding me?
There couldn't be a better system fit for Kaep than Kelly unless you want to go back to his college days. It's all anyone could talk about leading up to it.

You must be suffering from selective memory.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/03/17/mathieu-questions-whether-kaepernick-fits-in-chip-kellys-offense/

Many believe that quarterback Colin Kaepernick would fit well with the Chip Kelly offense. Others point out that Kaepernick may lack the ability to make quick decisions, a staple of quarterback play the Kelly system.

Did you even read that article? You do realize what that means right? It's all the things we have been talking about since he started his decline. "Others point out that Kaepernick may lack the ability to make quick decisions, a staple of quarterback play the Kelly system." THAT IS A STAPLE OF EVERY QB IN EVERY SYSTEM. How much time do they have to get rid of the ball?? This is outrageous.

Did you even read Honey Badgers description?
"Kelly wants to take shots down the field"
"It's not necessarily an offense that is going to throw screen passes the whole game."
LOL. So Kaep would have to be in an offense that throws screen passes the whole game in order to be successful? ROFL. You do realize that is probably the pass he is the most inaccurate on anyway.

Again, Kaep is fundamentally flawed as a passing QB. You can't have your cake and eat it too with this guy. He doesn't possess the basics to play the position and you can't have a Vick offense and expect to win SBs.
Fundamentals of a QB...Natural Thrower. Pocket presence. The entire position is based off quickly processing information and making quick decisions. Without that one alone you are DOOMED. It's been Harped on over and over that he reads half the field and doesn't go through progressions. This was even mentioned as a means to try and make him more successful by cutting the field in half for him.

So basically you have acknowledged that he doesn't have the QB IQ and that the perfect offense for him which wouldn't be successful anyway.

Scrambling/running and a cannon arm only get you so far until the league catches up with you. As it did. At that point the elevator needs to reach the top floor. His is stuck in the lobby.

[Ray_Dogg]

You are so insanely smitten with Kaep that there is just no seeing the forest for the trees. I'm done with this thread.

[thesack12]

^ You claim "everybody was talking" about how perfect a fit Kelly's system was for Kaep, which most definitely was not the case, yet accuse me of having cake and eating it too? Thats fine.

Go ahead and look back and find where I said Kaep was a perfect QB, or even where I said he didn't have flaws. In fact go back and find where I even said that he should be the guy past 2017.

I'm tired of this subject, so here's my bottom line. The one and only time Kaep has had competent coaching and talent around him he had the team 5 yards away from winning the super bowl and 1 play away from a repeat super bowl appearance. So the proof is in the pudding that if he has the right situation around him he can be a championship caliber QB.

The truth of the matter is, yes I like the guy. I've met him a couple different times and each time found him to be a grounded very personable guy. On the field wise, ever since he came to San Francisco he has represented the team's best chance to win games, which is what concerns me most. Until he's no longer on the roster or a better option joins the team, I will continue to hold firm in my support for him when it comes to my favorite team's on the field aspirations.

Is he as good as I sometimes portray him to be, well nope. But is he as bad as many claim he, nope to that as well. This notion that he doesn't have NFL caliber talent is frankly absurd.

But I've said my peace, so feel free to get the last word.

[Ray_Dogg]

No worries man. I get it. You are a huge fan of his. I was too back in the day and was wanting him to be drafted.

Problem is I saw him peak and the league catch up. Then I never saw improvement. His days of butthumping Dom Capers have come and gone. I've accepted that and want to move on.

[RedneckNiner]

I Was ecstatic when the Niners drafted Kaepernick and I cheered as he helped get the Niners to the Playoffs and Super Bowl.. However much like a pitcher with a dominant fastball and not much else the league figured him out. Year in year out He still stares down his receiver, still has trouble reading defenses still has issues going through his progression still seems to invent pressure. He Has the arm talent and running talent but he is still missing the football IQ talent. The Niners also had a dominant defense in those years and Frank Gore. Is Kaepernick the best QB on the Niners right now.. I'd say yes. However being better than Gabbert or Ponder does not make you a great QB. Yes if you surround him with lots of talent he can be succesful.. but did that make Trent Dilfer a great QB because he got to the Super Bowl with the Ravens? Alex Smith goes to the playoffs every year almost with the Chiefs.. Is he a great QB? Rex Grossman was in a Super Bowl with the Bears.. And I bet almost any amount of money If Kaepernick went to the Patriots, Broncos, Packers, Falcons or even the Texans he would look like a good to even top 10 QB in the league. But how I judge QBs to be great is do they make the team better. Brady especially in his early years made the players around him better, Marino made the Dolphins a playoff team even with limited talent around him. Rodgers Can put the Pack on his back and win even when the team around him struggles,

I firmly believe its time for the Niners to move on from Kaep both sides need a break. Arguable he is better than Glennon, Hoyer, Schaub, or Cutler but I still think as the Niners move forward they need a new direction at QB. If I were the Niners I would avoid Garrapolo like the plague. But I would see if the Raiders would entertain trading Cook for a 3rd or 4th rounder. It is my opinion we have seen what Kaepernick has to offer and for where the team is now he is not the right QB. 14.5 million is too much for a backup QB and too much even as a bridge QB.

[NinerSickness]

Cousins isn't getting out of DC, and I seriously doubt Romo would even entertain the thought of Frisco if he gets released. So other than Garoppolo, I'm still waiting on someone to come up with a better option than Kaep to be the QB for 2017.

Schaub, Cutler, Taylor, Hoyer, McCown, and Griffin are all not better options.

Every single QB on that list is better than Kaepernick except Griffin. Kaepernick sucks. Apparently, no amount of proof will be enough to convince you.

[wco81]

Imagine if Harbaugh was still here. Could he have gotten Kaep to produce enough to make the 49ers a contender again?

He may not be the prototypical drop back guy but when the 49ers had the multiple offense going, they created a lot of good defined reads for Kaep and Smith.

He reached some heights, like bringing the team back against Atlanta when the defense was running on fumes at the end of that season.

Or carrying the team past the Packers and the Panthers on the road and almost doing it at Seattle.

But with the front office taking these successes for granted, they undermined both Harbaugh and Kaepernick, poisoning the locker room.

I think fans are also taking these achievements for granted. The offense could develop into a juggernaut under Shanahan and whomever he selects to be his QB. But even if Kyle develops the next Peyton Manning, there's no guarantee that that 49ers fans will see the team in the SB or even the NFC Championship game in the next 5 years.

Maybe not in the next 10 or even 20 years. Remember, Jeff Garcia, for all his shortcomings, was an all-pro QB and ran a top offense at the time. But they never sniffed the NFC Championship game let alone the SB.

So don't take what Kaep did for granted. True he didn't wing any rings for this franchise but there are many lower levels than the ones he reached.

[thesack12]

Imagine if Harbaugh was still here. Could he have gotten Kaep to produce enough to make the 49ers a contender again?

He may not be the prototypical drop back guy but when the 49ers had the multiple offense going, they created a lot of good defined reads for Kaep and Smith.

He reached some heights, like bringing the team back against Atlanta when the defense was running on fumes at the end of that season.

Or carrying the team past the Packers and the Panthers on the road and almost doing it at Seattle.

But with the front office taking these successes for granted, they undermined both Harbaugh and Kaepernick, poisoning the locker room.

I think fans are also taking these achievements for granted. The offense could develop into a juggernaut under Shanahan and whomever he selects to be his QB. But even if Kyle develops the next Peyton Manning, there's no guarantee that that 49ers fans will see the team in the SB or even the NFC Championship game in the next 5 years.

Maybe not in the next 10 or even 20 years. Remember, Jeff Garcia, for all his shortcomings, was an all-pro QB and ran a top offense at the time. But they never sniffed the NFC Championship game let alone the SB.

So don't take what Kaep did for granted. True he didn't wing any rings for this franchise but there are many lower levels than the ones he reached.

Thank you

Somebody who is able to remember things that are more than a year old. While also able to understand EVERY QB needs a solid foundation under him with a good talent base around him in order to succeed. Two things that have gone to absolute **** the last handful of years in San Francisco.

4-2 playoff record with only one of those being a home game.

[Pattersonca65]

Prior to Chip Kelly arriving in SF, it was debated whether Chip Kelly's system was a good fit for Kaepernick. Some people thought it was and others thought it wasn't. But the offense Kelly used for Kaepernick wasn't what people thought it was going to be prior to the Season. Kelly went to a pistol formation after Kaepernick started and tailored the offense to his strengths. Even Kaepernick stated the offense was similar to what he played in Nevada. As far as playing under Harbaugh, Kaepernick was regressing every year under Harbaugh. It is no coincidence that the QB coach, Chryst, was the same guy that saw the offense implode the following year as offensive coordinator. I thought Chip Kelly got the most he could out of Kaepernick. As far as that list goes, the only one I see better from a talent standpoint is Cutler. But Cutler is a headcase and not sure I would want him around long.

[Jikkle]

Kaepernick's biggest issue is that he just wasn't born with that ability to process information quickly and make the correct decision.

I don't think Kaepernick is stupid. I think if you sat him down in front of a whiteboard and asked him a ton of questions about football plays and coverages he would get the answers right a majority of the time. But if you got a stopwatch and asked him those same questions with only seconds to answer he would struggle to do it.

You can minimize the issue somewhat with him mastering a playbook as much as you can. I mean you can answer 2 + 2 in seconds not because it's easy but because you know the answer by heart. But that actual elite ability to process information quickly is just something you're born with.

[CrimsonCrew]

^ You claim "everybody was talking" about how perfect a fit Kelly's system was for Kaep, which most definitely was not the case, yet accuse me of having cake and eating it too? Thats fine.

Go ahead and look back and find where I said Kaep was a perfect QB, or even where I said he didn't have flaws. In fact go back and find where I even said that he should be the guy past 2017.

I'm tired of this subject, so here's my bottom line. The one and only time Kaep has had competent coaching and talent around him he had the team 5 yards away from winning the super bowl and 1 play away from a repeat super bowl appearance. So the proof is in the pudding that if he has the right situation around him he can be a championship caliber QB.

The truth of the matter is, yes I like the guy. I've met him a couple different times and each time found him to be a grounded very personable guy. On the field wise, ever since he came to San Francisco he has represented the team's best chance to win games, which is what concerns me most. Until he's no longer on the roster or a better option joins the team, I will continue to hold firm in my support for him when it comes to my favorite team's on the field aspirations.

Is he as good as I sometimes portray him to be, well nope. But is he as bad as many claim he, nope to that as well. This notion that he doesn't have NFL caliber talent is frankly absurd.

But I've said my peace, so feel free to get the last word.

Using 2012 as a benchmark is dangerous for a few reasons.

First and foremost, as noted above, Kap came in midseason, before teams had much opportunity to study him and figure him out. We're well past that point now, and the results have not been good.

Second, we're not going to reassemble the type of talent we had in 2012 any time soon (or ever again?). From a pure all-around talent standpoint, that team has got to be in the discussion of the best since the salary cap era. We had pro bowl-caliber talent at virtually every position. Gore, Staley, Iupati, J. Smith, A. Smith, Willis, Bowman, Whitner, and Goldson all made the pro bowl that year. Ray Mac and Brooks weren't name guys, but they both played at an extremely high level, and Boone, A. Davis, and Miller were mauling people in the run game. V. Davis had a down year, but still had the 13-TD talent he had shown in 2009 and repeated in 2013. Even the much-maligned Crabtree ended the season on a pro bowl pace (from week 8 through the playoffs - 12 consecutive games - he posted 1022 yards and 11 TDs). I honestly can't think of a single starter on the current team that I would take over a 2012 starter.

Third, we probably win that SB if Kap had gotten the snap off on time on the 3rd down run (granted it would have been due to Kap's athleticism). Part of that has to be on Harbaugh, as getting the calls in on time was a constant problem for his staff, but we had time to get the play off if Kap had been more aware.

I have gone back and forth on Kap off the field. Ultimately, I think he's a pretty good guy who has been largely misunderstood and judged by people who haven't really studied his background. He's done some stupid stuff IMO, but nothing that should influence personnel decisions. But none of that affects my feelings about him as a player. He's just not a good QB. Oh, he's probably talented enough to start for some NFL team in much the same way that Tebow was, but I don't think that team could rise out of the cellar without superior talent basically across the board. For all Kap's improved play this year, he was what, 1-10 as a starter? He won the same number of games as Gabbert. And Kap is an awful fit for Shanahan's offense. Add that to his salary figure, and it's pretty clear he's got to go.

[CrimsonCrew]

Imagine if Harbaugh was still here. Could he have gotten Kaep to produce enough to make the 49ers a contender again?

He may not be the prototypical drop back guy but when the 49ers had the multiple offense going, they created a lot of good defined reads for Kaep and Smith.

He reached some heights, like bringing the team back against Atlanta when the defense was running on fumes at the end of that season.

Or carrying the team past the Packers and the Panthers on the road and almost doing it at Seattle.

But with the front office taking these successes for granted, they undermined both Harbaugh and Kaepernick, poisoning the locker room.

I think fans are also taking these achievements for granted. The offense could develop into a juggernaut under Shanahan and whomever he selects to be his QB. But even if Kyle develops the next Peyton Manning, there's no guarantee that that 49ers fans will see the team in the SB or even the NFC Championship game in the next 5 years.

Maybe not in the next 10 or even 20 years. Remember, Jeff Garcia, for all his shortcomings, was an all-pro QB and ran a top offense at the time. But they never sniffed the NFC Championship game let alone the SB.

So don't take what Kaep did for granted. True he didn't wing any rings for this franchise but there are many lower levels than the ones he reached.

Thank you

Somebody who is able to remember things that are more than a year old. While also able to understand EVERY QB needs a solid foundation under him with a good talent base around him in order to succeed. Two things that have gone to absolute **** the last handful of years in San Francisco.

4-2 playoff record with only one of those being a home game.

To address both of these posts at once, Kap did some great things. But he also had a very strong team around him and had some glaring flaws as a passer that grew more apparent the longer he played. He had success in the 2013 playoffs, but it was due more to his legs than his arm. In the 2013 playoffs, he had 54% completions, 7 YPA, 3 TDs, 3 INTs, and 3 fumbles. We got GB on a bitterly cold day that really inhibited their offense (and ours, to be fair). We then held CAR to 10 points. I'm somewhat reluctant to criticize his performance at Seattle, as he was arguably the only guy who showed up, but it still wasn't what you'd call a good game. Those teams were driven by the run game and defense. Once those started to flag, we went to 8-8, then 5-11, and finally 2-14. Kap is not the QB for this team.

[Ray_Dogg]

Imagine if Harbaugh was still here. Could he have gotten Kaep to produce enough to make the 49ers a contender again?

He may not be the prototypical drop back guy but when the 49ers had the multiple offense going, they created a lot of good defined reads for Kaep and Smith.

He reached some heights, like bringing the team back against Atlanta when the defense was running on fumes at the end of that season.

Or carrying the team past the Packers and the Panthers on the road and almost doing it at Seattle.

But with the front office taking these successes for granted, they undermined both Harbaugh and Kaepernick, poisoning the locker room.

I think fans are also taking these achievements for granted. The offense could develop into a juggernaut under Shanahan and whomever he selects to be his QB. But even if Kyle develops the next Peyton Manning, there's no guarantee that that 49ers fans will see the team in the SB or even the NFC Championship game in the next 5 years.

Maybe not in the next 10 or even 20 years. Remember, Jeff Garcia, for all his shortcomings, was an all-pro QB and ran a top offense at the time. But they never sniffed the NFC Championship game let alone the SB.

So don't take what Kaep did for granted. True he didn't wing any rings for this franchise but there are many lower levels than the ones he reached.

Thank you

Somebody who is able to remember things that are more than a year old. While also able to understand EVERY QB needs a solid foundation under him with a good talent base around him in order to succeed. Two things that have gone to absolute **** the last handful of years in San Francisco.

4-2 playoff record with only one of those being a home game.

To address both of these posts at once, Kap did some great things. But he also had a very strong team around him and had some glaring flaws as a passer that grew more apparent the longer he played. He had success in the 2013 playoffs, but it was due more to his legs than his arm. In the 2013 playoffs, he had 54% completions, 7 YPA, 3 TDs, 3 INTs, and 3 fumbles. We got GB on a bitterly cold day that really inhibited their offense (and ours, to be fair). We then held CAR to 10 points. I'm somewhat reluctant to criticize his performance at Seattle, as he was arguably the only guy who showed up, but it still wasn't what you'd call a good game. Those teams were driven by the run game and defense. Once those started to flag, we went to 8-8, then 5-11, and finally 2-14. Kap is not the QB for this team.

Yep. His days of butthumping Dom Capers have come and gone.

[Pattersonca65]

^ You claim "everybody was talking" about how perfect a fit Kelly's system was for Kaep, which most definitely was not the case, yet accuse me of having cake and eating it too? Thats fine.

Go ahead and look back and find where I said Kaep was a perfect QB, or even where I said he didn't have flaws. In fact go back and find where I even said that he should be the guy past 2017.

I'm tired of this subject, so here's my bottom line. The one and only time Kaep has had competent coaching and talent around him he had the team 5 yards away from winning the super bowl and 1 play away from a repeat super bowl appearance. So the proof is in the pudding that if he has the right situation around him he can be a championship caliber QB.

The truth of the matter is, yes I like the guy. I've met him a couple different times and each time found him to be a grounded very personable guy. On the field wise, ever since he came to San Francisco he has represented the team's best chance to win games, which is what concerns me most. Until he's no longer on the roster or a better option joins the team, I will continue to hold firm in my support for him when it comes to my favorite team's on the field aspirations.

Is he as good as I sometimes portray him to be, well nope. But is he as bad as many claim he, nope to that as well. This notion that he doesn't have NFL caliber talent is frankly absurd.

But I've said my peace, so feel free to get the last word.

Using 2012 as a benchmark is dangerous for a few reasons.

First and foremost, as noted above, Kap came in midseason, before teams had much opportunity to study him and figure him out. We're well past that point now, and the results have not been good.

Second, we're not going to reassemble the type of talent we had in 2012 any time soon (or ever again?). From a pure all-around talent standpoint, that team has got to be in the discussion of the best since the salary cap era. We had pro bowl-caliber talent at virtually every position. Gore, Staley, Iupati, J. Smith, A. Smith, Willis, Bowman, Whitner, and Goldson all made the pro bowl that year. Ray Mac and Brooks weren't name guys, but they both played at an extremely high level, and Boone, A. Davis, and Miller were mauling people in the run game. V. Davis had a down year, but still had the 13-TD talent he had shown in 2009 and repeated in 2013. Even the much-maligned Crabtree ended the season on a pro bowl pace (from week 8 through the playoffs - 12 consecutive games - he posted 1022 yards and 11 TDs). I honestly can't think of a single starter on the current team that I would take over a 2012 starter.

Third, we probably win that SB if Kap had gotten the snap off on time on the 3rd down run (granted it would have been due to Kap's athleticism). Part of that has to be on Harbaugh, as getting the calls in on time was a constant problem for his staff, but we had time to get the play off if Kap had been more aware.

I have gone back and forth on Kap off the field. Ultimately, I think he's a pretty good guy who has been largely misunderstood and judged by people who haven't really studied his background. He's done some stupid stuff IMO, but nothing that should influence personnel decisions. But none of that affects my feelings about him as a player. He's just not a good QB. Oh, he's probably talented enough to start for some NFL team in much the same way that Tebow was, but I don't think that team could rise out of the cellar without superior talent basically across the board. For all Kap's improved play this year, he was what, 1-10 as a starter? He won the same number of games as Gabbert. And Kap is an awful fit for Shanahan's offense. Add that to his salary figure, and it's pretty clear he's got to go.

I don't anyone was suggesting Kaep was the answer going forward. I think it was starting Kaep for next year versus the other Free Agent QB's mentioned on the list as a bridge QB. None of the QBs on that list were a long term answer and are bridge QBs at best. I see Cutler as better from a talent standpoint but he is a headcase. I am not advocating for Kaep's return. It has been years now and it is probably best to just make a fresh start for everyone involved but I am going to leave It up to the coaches to decide. I would definitely prefer a Garapallo or Cousins if the FO can make it work.

[CrimsonCrew]

I just don't see the sense in keeping Kap - at a fairly high cap figure - just to be a bridge. We will have to tweak the offense to suit him in ways that could inhibit a younger player, and he's just not good enough to justify the expense. Although Kap probably gives us a somewhat higher probability of winning than those other guys on the list, our chances of making the playoffs are effectively nil regardless of who is under center. I'd rather make a clean break now than draw it out for another year.

[thesack12]

I just don't see the sense in keeping Kap - at a fairly high cap figure - just to be a bridge. We will have to tweak the offense to suit him in ways that could inhibit a younger player, and he's just not good enough to justify the expense. Although Kap probably gives us a somewhat higher probability of winning than those other guys on the list, our chances of making the playoffs are effectively nil regardless of who is under center. I'd rather make a clean break now than draw it out for another year.

I agree with pretty much everything you say here.

The one note I would add is, the team is so far under the cap floor Kaep's $14 mil could actually be attractive since its only for one season. They are going to have to spend a lot of money somewhere, and I personally don't want to see any more Vance McDonald type extensions or vastly overpaying for marginal free agents. Those kind of mistakes will linger for several years.

[wco81]

Yeah I'm not advocating for keeping him either.

Just pointing out that 5 or 10 years from now, the 49ers still may be a team which hasn't made the playoffs or if they did, at most won one game before being knocked out.

And just to set the record straight, in the Super Bowl year, Kaep carried the team in the NFC Championship game comeback and the almost come from behind win in the Super Bowl. People are saying the team was strong and it was, but the defense late in that season wasn't stopping anyone.

[Bingo_AlphaMan]

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2692952-insider-buzz-49ers-open-to-keeping-kaepernick-but-not-at-current-salary