Political Roundtable Part XII

[bealwithit]

Calling people stupid for voting their perceived interests means we're all stupid because that's what most people do.

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That's not where the stupidity is from. People can vote for whoever they like. It's the eating up of Republican propaganda and a media machine that cared more about reporting "scandals" than about policy. You end up with people not knowing the ACA and Obamacare are the same thing.

[nate33]

The panel's decision went directly against the president's desire, in a very high profile case. Even if they don't have the votes or have no particular problem with the decision, given the importance of the matter, an en banc rehearing could make sense as providing a broader level of public confidence that the decision wasn't rigged and was given a high level of scrutiny.

Yes. This is also a possibility.

[Wizardspride]

Minor in the grand scheme of things but just so fitting.....

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[nate33]

However, the statement about removing all of those things from the election would ensure Hillary winning is basically true. I like to be blunt about this and if people want to be offended then so be it, but we have a lot of stupid people in this country and they fell for the "scandals" of the e-mail server and the Clinton Foundation.

Bear in mind that the biggest "scandal" associated with the election was unquestionably the 12-year-old audio recording of a private conversation between Trump and Billy Bush that was sat upon by NBC operatives and released as an October surprise to cause maximum harm. That absolutely wrecked Trump's poll numbers. So if not for Trump being a crass buffoon as a private citizen 12 years ago coupled with a hostile, partisan media, this thing could have been a blowout. A good case can be made that the Democrat party is in much worse shape than the popular vote numbers suggest.

[bealwithit]

However, the statement about removing all of those things from the election would ensure Hillary winning is basically true. I like to be blunt about this and if people want to be offended then so be it, but we have a lot of stupid people in this country and they fell for the "scandals" of the e-mail server and the Clinton Foundation.

Bear in mind that the biggest "scandal" associated with the election was unquestionably the 12-year-old audio recording of a private conversation between Trump and Billy Bush. That absolutely wrecked Trump's poll numbers. So if not for Trump being a crass buffoon as a private citizen 12 years ago, this thing could have been a blowout. A good case can be made that the Democrat party is in much worse shape than the popular vote numbers suggest.

It was certainly the one with the most talk just because of the absurdity/hilarity of it. But after Trump just sorta blew it off with the "locker room talk" designation and kept on doing his thing it pretty much went away. Hillary's scandals hounded her the entire time.

I agree that the party is definitely in worse shape than the voting numbers suggest, but most voters don't care who the new DNC chair is going to be. The only people who care about that kinda stuff are us, people who enjoy following and discussing politics. Most voters just liked Hillary over Trump.

[Wizardspride]

Just one poll (obviously) but pretty bad.

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[DCZards]

I just wanted to add on that acting like the Democratic Party and Republican Party are equally "incompetent and evil" is just not true.

This is the path that has led us to where we are - they are more evil than us... it hasn't been very effective. It led to Hillary's deplorable quote - and we know how that turned out. Maybe we should consider a different approach?

Different approach? Let's start with the language we use. I think to call either of the major American political parties "evil" is a gross overstatement.

[bealwithit]

I just wanted to add on that acting like the Democratic Party and Republican Party are equally "incompetent and evil" is just not true.

This is the path that has led us to where we are - they are more evil than us... it hasn't been very effective. It led to Hillary's deplorable quote - and we know how that turned out. Maybe we should consider a different approach?

Different approach? Let's start with the language we use. I think to call either of the major American political parties "evil" is a gross overstatement.

I get it... but when one party wants to restrict abortion rights by defunding Planned Parenthood (which does so much more work than that), gut Medicaid (hi Paul Ryan!), repeal the ACA without a real replacement putting millions off health insurance AGAIN, puts Gary Cohn, a man who had to testify in front of Congress and apologize to the American people for his part in the 2008 financial crisis as Senior Economic Adviser, put Jeff Sessions who was deemed too racist to be a federal judge in the 80s as Attorney General, put Scott Pruitt in charge of the EPA despite him suing the EPA 10+ times in the past, Ben Carson a goddamn neurosurgeon whose recent experience includes multiple appearances on Fox before a failed run for president in charge of Housing and Urban Development, put Betsy DeVos as secretary of Education despite admitting in the past that she simply concedes the point of using her wealth to buy influence and help to destroy Detroit's schools and has ZERO experience even personally in public schools, then have Steven Bannon, a guy who was in charge of Breitbart, a far-right propaganda website as one of Trump's most trusted advisers, Flynn as national security adviser who is clearly buddy buddy with the Russians and finally off the top of my head Rick Perry as Energy Secretary whose most recent work includes Dancing with the Stars... it's hard not to see that party as almost cartoonishly evil/incompetent. Aaaaaand exhale...

[sfam]

Strawman. Neither Milo nor anyone else is arguing that his 1st Amendment rights are being infringed. People can boycott Milo all they want. What's unacceptable is rioting, vandalism and assault. Those are crimes unrelated to the 1st Amendment.

One can also question whether public institutions funded by the taxpayer have the right to infringe free political speech.

You think people have an inherent right to give political speeches at UC Berkeley's campus?

I think the government has a say in who gets to give political speeches at Berkeley if Berkeley is being funded by government sources. Having government sponsor only left wing political speech is a violation of the 1st Amendment.

On this we fully agree. Stopping someone's speech on campus because you don't like what they say is like the opposite of the purpose of higher learning. Liberals really have gone off a cliff here. Disagree with something they say? Totally cool, I do too. Banning them from coming? This is problematic if Government funds are provided but worse, its completely unamerican in exactly the same way banning foreigners is. That more than half the country thinks its cool to stop those speaking whom they disagree with is insane.

[bealwithit]

You think people have an inherent right to give political speeches at UC Berkeley's campus?

I think the government has a say in who gets to give political speeches at Berkeley if Berkeley is being funded by government sources. Having government sponsor only left wing political speech is a violation of the 1st Amendment.

On this we fully agree. Stopping someone's speech on campus because you don't like what they say is like the opposite of the purpose of higher learning. Liberals really have gone off a cliff here. Disagree with something they say? Totally cool, I do too. Banning them from coming? This is problematic if Government funds are provided but worse, its completely unamerican in exactly the same way banning foreigners is. That more than half the country thinks its cool to stop those speaking whom they disagree with is insane.

Agreed. I hate Milo too, but let the guy speak. Don't know why these liberal college kids freak out about it so much (I am one). Like if you don't want to hear him... don't attend the talk.

[sfam]

However, the statement about removing all of those things from the election would ensure Hillary winning is basically true. I like to be blunt about this and if people want to be offended then so be it, but we have a lot of stupid people in this country and they fell for the "scandals" of the e-mail server and the Clinton Foundation.

Bear in mind that the biggest "scandal" associated with the election was unquestionably the 12-year-old audio recording of a private conversation between Trump and Billy Bush that was sat upon by NBC operatives and released as an October surprise to cause maximum harm. That absolutely wrecked Trump's poll numbers. So if not for Trump being a crass buffoon as a private citizen 12 years ago coupled with a hostile, partisan media, this thing could have been a blowout. A good case can be made that the Democrat party is in much worse shape than the popular vote numbers suggest.

No, not even close. That may be been the most salatious, but the the biggest scandals of this election dealt with the unstability of our democracy. These are the ones we will still care about 10 years from now.

- We had the chief law enforcement organization of the country re-open a closed investigation 11 days before the election, and then started leaking out the one of the candidates would get indicted. This is very normal in banana republics, and really, is what it looks like the US is becoming to the rest of the world.

- We had the Russian Government hack at least one, but probably both of the major parties, and put out daily stolen American citizens emails which ended up as front page stories - daily - on most of the major outlets.

- We had the now National Security advisor in regular and ongoing contact with one of our greatest adversaries, and by recent reports, was impacting the actions of the sitting President regarding sanctions. We now have questions of whether the sitting President directed these actions.

- Fake news dominated the landscape. The ability for factual coverage to gain credibility dropped through the floor.

All of these stories talk to the instability of our democracy. These problems are enduring, unlike our braggadocious P-grabbing POTUS.

[sfam]

Agreed. I hate Milo too, but let the guy speak. Don't know why these liberal college kids freak out about it so much (I am one). Like if you don't want to hear him... don't attend the talk.

Milo is pure slime as a human being, as are most trolls. But banning him from speaking is not the answer. Letting him speak, with virtually nobody showing up would do so much more.,

[Wizardspride]

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[tontoz]

Back before the primaries were finished i thought Trump's crazy man routine might be just an act. I thought he might just be playing a role to get elected. Over time it became clear that was not the case.

He just can't filter himself. He can't stop and think/research before going off. He isn't capable of responding in a measured, mature way. Ultimately his mouth is his biggest enemy.

It is hard to find much good in the current situation. However his victory did put politicians on notice about just how disgusted the public is with them. Ditto the press. Maybe his success will encourage other (hopefully more mature) people without political experience to throw their hats in the ring in future elections.

[DCZards]

Back before the primaries were finished i thought Trump's crazy man routine might be just an act. I thought he might just be playing a role to get elected. Over time it became clear that was not the case.

He just can't filter himself. He can't stop and think/research before going off. He isn't capable of responding in a measured, mature way. Ultimately his mouth is his biggest enemy.

It is hard to find much good in the current situation. However his victory did put politicians on notice about just how disgusted the public is with them. Ditto the press. Maybe his success will encourage other (hopefully more mature) people without political experience to throw their hats in the ring in future elections.

Like you, I thought...even hoped...that a Pres Trump would be different from candidate Trump. That a Pres Trump would act, well, presidential. Sadly l was wrong.

We now have a president who calls those Americans who voted against him "enemies." I find that totally surreal.

[bealwithit]

Back before the primaries were finished i thought Trump's crazy man routine might be just an act. I thought he might just be playing a role to get elected. Over time it became clear that was not the case.

He just can't filter himself. He can't stop and think/research before going off. He isn't capable of responding in a measured, mature way. Ultimately his mouth is his biggest enemy.

It is hard to find much good in the current situation. However his victory did put politicians on notice about just how disgusted the public is with them. Ditto the press. Maybe his success will encourage other (hopefully more mature) people without political experience to throw their hats in the ring in future elections.

Like you,I thought...even hoped...that a Pres Trump would be different from candidate Trump. That a Pres Trump would act, well, presidential. Sadly l was wrong.

We now have a president who calls those Americans who voted against him "enemies." I find that totally surreal.

Not trying to pile on you guys, but I never understood how anyone possibly thought this. It's been the guy's personality his entire life while in the public eye! Getting into spats with celebs, responding to anyone who badmouths him including random people on Twitter before he ran for Pres. He's always been a thin-skinned narcissist and in his old age it's only getting worse. It's just who he is. There was literally never any evidence for the contrary besides a few teleprompter-aided rally speeches.

[sfam]

Back before the primaries were finished i thought Trump's crazy man routine might be just an act. I thought he might just be playing a role to get elected. Over time it became clear that was not the case.

He just can't filter himself. He can't stop and think/research before going off. He isn't capable of responding in a measured, mature way. Ultimately his mouth is his biggest enemy.

It is hard to find much good in the current situation. However his victory did put politicians on notice about just how disgusted the public is with them. Ditto the press. Maybe his success will encourage other (hopefully more mature) people without political experience to throw their hats in the ring in future elections.

Like you,I thought...even hoped...that a Pres Trump would be different from candidate Trump. That a Pres Trump would act, well, presidential. Sadly l was wrong.

We now have a president who calls those Americans who voted against him "enemies." I find that totally surreal.

Not trying to pile on you guys, but I never understood how anyone possibly thought this. It's been the guy's personality his entire life while in the public eye! Getting into spats with celebs, responding to anyone who badmouths him including random people on Twitter before he ran for Pres. He's always been a thin-skinned narcissist and in his old age it's only getting worse. It's just who he is. There was literally never any evidence for the contrary besides a few teleprompter-aided rally speeches.

Agreed. The only thing surprising so far is how many people seem surprised by this Administration's behavior. What were people expecting?

[tontoz]

Back before the primaries were finished i thought Trump's crazy man routine might be just an act. I thought he might just be playing a role to get elected. Over time it became clear that was not the case.

He just can't filter himself. He can't stop and think/research before going off. He isn't capable of responding in a measured, mature way. Ultimately his mouth is his biggest enemy.

It is hard to find much good in the current situation. However his victory did put politicians on notice about just how disgusted the public is with them. Ditto the press. Maybe his success will encourage other (hopefully more mature) people without political experience to throw their hats in the ring in future elections.

Like you,I thought...even hoped...that a Pres Trump would be different from candidate Trump. That a Pres Trump would act, well, presidential. Sadly l was wrong.

We now have a president who calls those Americans who voted against him "enemies." I find that totally surreal.

Not trying to pile on you guys, but I never understood how anyone possibly thought this. It's been the guy's personality his entire life while in the public eye! Getting into spats with celebs, responding to anyone who badmouths him including random people on Twitter before he ran for Pres. He's always been a thin-skinned narcissist and in his old age it's only getting worse. It's just who he is. There was literally never any evidence for the contrary besides a few teleprompter-aided rally speeches.

I never paid much attention to him before all this. I was aware of him obviously but never watched the Apprentice. I didn't follow his career. I don't do Twitter. I thought that he couldn't really be this crazy.

[DCZards]

Back before the primaries were finished i thought Trump's crazy man routine might be just an act. I thought he might just be playing a role to get elected. Over time it became clear that was not the case.

He just can't filter himself. He can't stop and think/research before going off. He isn't capable of responding in a measured, mature way. Ultimately his mouth is his biggest enemy.

It is hard to find much good in the current situation. However his victory did put politicians on notice about just how disgusted the public is with them. Ditto the press. Maybe his success will encourage other (hopefully more mature) people without political experience to throw their hats in the ring in future elections.

Like you,I thought...even hoped...that a Pres Trump would be different from candidate Trump. That a Pres Trump would act, well, presidential. Sadly l was wrong.

We now have a president who calls those Americans who voted against him "enemies." I find that totally surreal.

Not trying to pile on you guys, but I never understood how anyone possibly thought this. It's been the guy's personality his entire life while in the public eye! Getting into spats with celebs, responding to anyone who badmouths him including random people on Twitter before he ran for Pres. He's always been a thin-skinned narcissist and in his old age it's only getting worse. It's just who he is. There was literally never any evidence for the contrary besides a few teleprompter-aided rally speeches.

I hear ya. The guy is who we thought he was...a bully, a bigot and a liar.

[bealwithit]

Like you,I thought...even hoped...that a Pres Trump would be different from candidate Trump. That a Pres Trump would act, well, presidential. Sadly l was wrong.

We now have a president who calls those Americans who voted against him "enemies." I find that totally surreal.

Not trying to pile on you guys, but I never understood how anyone possibly thought this. It's been the guy's personality his entire life while in the public eye! Getting into spats with celebs, responding to anyone who badmouths him including random people on Twitter before he ran for Pres. He's always been a thin-skinned narcissist and in his old age it's only getting worse. It's just who he is. There was literally never any evidence for the contrary besides a few teleprompter-aided rally speeches.

I hear ya. The guy is who we thought he was...a bully, a bigot and a liar.

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I mean it's just like... ugh.
Apologize if anyone doesn't like the language.